How much movement?

Submitted by Karezza Korner on
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(emerson) There's no right or wrong, but here are some comments:

If you can "go forever" at a certain pace, then do that.

There are moments of quiet stillness for us, and moments of more motion and "doing". The moments of stillness I find very sublime but they are made possible with the moments of more motion.

In general, this becomes far slower and more of a savor-thing than a move around and do thing.

Let's look at it as an arousal scale of 1-10, with 10 being full on orgasm. We stay in the 5s and 6s. You can edge and move up to the 8s and 9s but that will often spill over into an orgasm.

If you are coming too close to coming then you can, oddly enough, smile, look away with your eyes wide, and these will both somehow let off some of that arousal and bring you down again.

I'm focusing my attention more these days on the root of my penis, not the tip. And thanks to a tip from Darryl, focusing on delivering my energy to my woman when I thrust. I can feel that energy moving out and into her, I can picture it and feel it, and sometimes even coming out of her breasts back into me through my chest.

For your woman, avoid clitoral stimulation if you can, at least until after you have made love without orgasm. The best thing is to get that penis into her vagina and spend a lot of time that way, then later on, a bit of oral or whatever is great, but not before intercourse.

If you can avoid orgasm yourself, that's enough to start with. That is a huge advance. If she continues orgasms that's her business really. She might take your lead. That's what happened in our relationship. My partner has had three orgasms since the beginning of the year and I've had none. She loves this new way of life for us as much as I do (well, maybe I love it more at the moment). But the point is, set the tone yourself, be the leader here and you will be so happy with the result.

Condoms won't interfere with this at all. I definitely highly suggest them. If you go for a long time, like an hour or longer, and grow soft sometime then, you may have to withdraw and get hard again and put on another condom. But so what.

(Darryl) Here's my definition of what karezza is. Sexual intercourse without orgasm or ejaculation. That's it, the whole definition. Under that umbrella anything goes. ...With that definition in mind, one's behaviors would be governed by the no-orgasm rule. If what you're doing causes you to go over the edge into orgasm or makes you want to go over the edge into orgasm then those behaviors would be steered clear of. I suppose behavior that makes you want to have an orgasm would technically fit under the definition, as long as you didn't,  but I can't imagine that would be very enjoyable for long and would get frustrating pretty quickly.

One of the nicest places to be when engaging in karezza is to reach the point where you have absolutely no urge to orgasm at all, then you're cruising. 

For many folks getting too heated up is the main hurdle, so gentle intercourse and lots of bonding behaviors make good sense. Well, bonding behaviors are good no matter what. For others something a little more steamy may be the ticket.  Some folks may want to turn it up while others need to turn it down. I think one of the misconceptions around karezza is that turning it down is what should always be done. I think of karezza as a balance between stimulation and sensation.

Let me explain my take on this: Conventional orgasm-driven sex is predominately about stimulation, whereas karezza style love making is based in sensation and the flow of energy. In stimulation the energy builds up and seeks release, hence the orgasmic conclusion. With sensation the energy flows back and forth between partners without seeking this conclusion which is why karezza sex usually goes on for a much longer period of time.

Stimulation is predominately centered in the clitoris and head of the penis, where the energy builds. Sensation is within the vagina and at the base/root of the penis where the sending (penis) and receiving (vagina) takes place. To say that there's no sensation in conventional sex and no stimulation in karezza would be untrue. Both have some of each in them, it's a matter of how much, especially in non-orgasmic lovemaking. A lot of sensation in conventional sex will still end up in orgasm, although it may take a little longer to get there, but too much stimulation in karezza sex will hijack the experience over into the conventional realm.  

I believe understanding this framework can help couples find their balance in karezza-style lovemaking. If it's getting too heated up then reduce the stimulation. If it's a little too sedate and you want to build the energy up a bit, then add a touch of stimulation. Something that adds a little more contact/movement to the stimulation centers of the genitals, like more movement for the penis and more contact with the clitoris. A simple angle change during lovemaking can do the trick. Obviously for stimulation reduction the opposite would be true, which is why some positions are better for karezza and others not so good.

In the beginning it's the stimulation level one generally keeps an eye on, but after a while you become immersed in the sensation and the stimulation falls where it does as the sensation becomes the natural focus. In the end, let your body and your heart guide you. Both put together will take you on a beautiful journey of pleasure, connection and love.


(sood) One of the early Karezza books I read was by Stanley Bass. I got the impression he was much more enthusiastic about staying hot, or at least warm, than becoming cool; but maybe I need to retread it. The Richardson books emphasise coolness at all times. I like stillness, and relaxation, but I associate them with non sexual cuddling, hugging, dozing or sleeping. I'm finding it hard to move from there towards something more sexually charged without corresponding physical movement. There's nothing wrong with movement oriented Karezza, but I would like to experience the energy everyone talks about which seems to flow best - or at least become most easily recognisable - the less movement there is.

(emerson) Bass definitely is all about what I would term edging type intercourse. Staying away from orgasm but coming awfully close. That is what has in me brought about blue balls when I first started. And it wasn't as gratifying really as what I am doing now.

But, Bass does have some good advice for men. Which is, quite clinically, minimizing movement at times, or making it more side to side, which does not move us to orgasm, and when our arousal is flagging, to do more in and out movement. That is a good idea at least to start with. Sometimes I go in and am very still, and just am, just this timeless state of being and joining, with nothing else. Then at some point some movement seems to be in order.

But as far as cuddling-to-intercourse, I had some difficulty transitioning from cuddling to sex this way. But these days I find that arousal happens naturally when I cuddle anyway. If sex is on the table then we cuddle and I get aroused and we start sex. If sex is not on the table, usually (not always) I get a bit aroused anyway. Lately I've felt 100% good about cuddling without sex even if I get aroused. I'm really happy about this because I am no longer feeling needy and it feels wonderful not to have disappointment if we don't have sex.

(Rachel) I have never thought of what we do as being "cool"~~inside, it feels very hot, but I suppose if you were to look at our bodies from above, it wouldn't look like we were doing much.

Once you are both engaged and focused, I think you'll find that every movement feels 100% bigger than it really is, at least that has been our experience.

And my lover's penis seems to find a state where it is not really stiff hard, but bendable and snakelike, and that is when he can best curve around up into the "garden of love" area and that is where it feels really "hot" (this all comes from feeling, not from movement). It's the energy exchange that causes the heat.

Honestly, we sweat and groan and moan and all that fun stuff, lol~~but there just isn't a lot of outward movement...all the good stuff is happening inside.


 


(Anya)  My partner has been practising stillness more during our karezza, with amazing results. He is very impressed- me too!

(hotspring) There are those moments when the bodies move together as one body, and this is a mysterious and magical state of being that can happen in conventional lovemaking, karezza, and even without sex. One of the most powerful experiences of the microcosmic orbit synchronization that I have ever felt happened when I was embracing my lover in a bathtub under the stars, but we weren't having sex (we WERE making love though). There's a circuitry which is opened and activated under very certain conditions, and requires a lot of presence.

Maybe that's one reason why karezza can be more conducive to these states, simply because the future goal or expectation of orgasm is removed, allowing the natural intelligence of the bodies to come to the foreground. But if this removal of the goal is so novel, or if we are somehow preoccupied with when to end or whether or not the other partner is bored, then we have replaced one distraction with another. So the fundamental issue here is not sexual technique but the ability to be fully present (mental health).


(Kevin)

Eventually, my wife learned to focus entirely on her breasts. Going within herself, she let herself honor her positive pole. Then slowly the whole thing started to finally shift to where we are now. Now, each morning, it’s like we’re both in a form of divine communion. She and I, quiet, focused - her on her breasts, me on the root of the penis. No struggle, no goal, nothing to say, just profoundly present with the “presence”. Now her juices flow and it’s so beautiful.

And every day it seems to deepen even more. The energy isn’t just hers or mine; it’s ours – like one happening. Flowing up and outward, spiraling around the room, almost as if there is a circuit swirling overhead. Her body continues to open and juice and I am so often moved by the power that we generate in this stillness.

I used to feel “cheated” that we weren’t moving and gyrating around like other couples describe. Yet it’s strange, the more I’ve let the stillness overtake me, and the more I focus on the root, the more I experience the movement of the energy. We change positions a lot, but there is no need to generate bodily momentum. I used to be preoccupied with imagining what it would be like to be very wild and passionate in bed, but she has intuitively shown me how much she has to offer when we’re focusing on the stillness.

It’s taken weeks to get to this place where I can really feel the connection between our genitals, the energetic embrace is incredible. My heart is expanding, widening, longing for the time we connect again. When the sun comes up each morning, we greet the new day with a kind of thanksgiving for the divine presence of God’s sexual energy…


From Tantric Sex For Men:

"The usual brevity of the sex act means that the majority of men are not experiencing the vagina as the true home and resting place of both man and penis. In a man's lifetime inestimable amounts of time and energy are locked up into sexual fantasy and longing, but the actual amount of time a man spends with his penis inside of vagina is minimal."

"Through being in a hurry we actually reduce the capacity to internally feel ourselves at a meaningful level. What is happening second by second in the body and genitals? Within the penis? Around the penis? Between the penis and vagina? If we are conscious in each moment, in each movement, the unfolding of sex can become a state of awe and wonder that last for hours, an experience of pure pleasure. The state of timelessness is entered wherein the movements emerge spontaneously from the body, unfolding naturally, one giving way to the next without fantasy or goals or mind being involved. The body is taken over by an innate force that intelligently guides it into loving expression. It is quite literally a mindless experience because we become utterly absorbed by our bodies in their state of heightened sensitivity. The more conscious and present a person is during sex to greater his or her sensitivity will be."

"Human beings are able to make love all day every day if it is their individual wish so there must be more to sex than straightforward procreation. Man is able, through his consciousness, to raise his sexual expression to a higher level – one that is an evolutionary step. The containment of the life force through relaxation gives rise to stillness and a higher form of self experience. Sexual experiences become uplifting, deeply moving, and nourishing."

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Comments

As a beginner

Gentle is a vague word which didnt adequately explain what we should or shouldnt do. Our first few attempts we stayed well away from orgasm, maybe 3-5 on emersons scale. But we were still doing, still excited, still in the old mode. Using arousal to puncture our respective fear barriers.

I had trouble getting what gentle meant. I almost wish there was a documentary showing what karrezza actually looks like because no one anywhere really describes what is actually involved.

CPA does contain a description its tucked away near the end of the exchanges. It was then that i finally got it.

When you connect penis and vagina, and just do nothing else, something magic occurs. We are just starting out and maybe as we get more experienced this will change as the others testify above. But for now it feels like the stillness is the place i want to explore. It just brings a radical radical sense of connection for us right now.

Though ill admit that making love without arousal is hard to do, where and how do you start. And every fear you have will be right there with you. But patience is a virtue.

i don't think it's without arousal (at least for me)

what I do as a male is have my penis in side her so it's pretty far back and at that point, I want to move very little and I have tremendous sensation even with very minimal movement. It isn't no movement but it's very little.

At the beginning of this practice I basically had intercourse like "normal" but short of ejaculation. But after a week or so I got over that and no longer did it that way and now it's more of a dance with very little movement and me all the way inside my lover.

Exactly what im saying

> very minimal movement. It isn't no movement but it's very little.

This is the kind of comment that confused me so much. How little is too little? How much too much?
"Still" is completely unambiguous. "Very little" is vastly more open to interpretation.

Can you be more specific?

alright

I'm talking what feels like millimeters of movement. The tip of the penis stays up there nestled near her cervix and there is maybe a  millimeter or two of movement in and out. It doesn't feel like my penis is moving in and out at all, just by a whisper it is.

Movement

Here's my take on movement. Keep it between the brackets of feeling and urge. "Feeling" being the low end of movement and "urge" being the high end. My explaination goes like this.

If the movement is active to the point where the urge to orgasm starts to come into play then I would say that's too much movement. At this level you'll have to push against the pull to orgasm which is an effort that takes away from the connection and flow of the moment. The experience is not about managing the energy but flowing with it. You could say that when the primitive brain starts saying "fertilize, fertilize" you're headed down a road thats not very karezza like.

On the other hand I want to have a feeling of draw and attraction to my partner. If there's a sweet feeling in the smallest of movement then that would be my guide. Sometimes the feeling can be quite strong in very little movement. Let the feeling direct. Obviously if I'm loosing interest or thinking about my day then that arc of attraction is getting a bit too quiet. Either that or I need to clear whats on my mind so I can be present.

We find in one session the activity level can vary quite a lot for us. Some times it starts out slow and stays that way. Other times were a bit frisky right from the start. Its all about following the feeling not a set of rules. Well, maybe a set of parameters but not rules. All in all we tend to be in the more active range, but that's just us.

There's another part of the picture to be aware of, and that's about emotions. My experience is that karezza style love making can dig down deeper into the emotional realm and "stuff" can perculate up into awareness. Also, making love in a more sensitive way tends to make one more sensitive in general, which includes emotions. If you're going along in the flow of the feelings and then you find the connection hard to find there may be some emotions that have come up. When this happens take a look inside and see what may be lurking around. It may or may not have something to do with the other person. The point is to move it along so it doesnt plop itself down in the middle of the bed, so to speak, and get in the way of your intimacy. Doesnt have to be great big emotions, even little ones like something that happened at work can get in the way. Sometimes we just lay cuddled together and talk. We can tell when the air is cleared and were ready to be sexual, "with feeling".