Does karezza increase male "neediness?"

Submitted by Karezza Korner on
Printer-friendly version

(Darryl) [Giving advice to another forum member] When I first started to practice being non-orgasmic, my wife admitted that she had sometimes used sex as a way to get rid of me. I seems my attention towards her would dissipate after orgasming. When I stopped orgasming this approach didn't fly. I was always desiring her, and she had no "eject" button to push. But it wasn't long before she was much preferring the new me.

However we, too, went through an adjustment period like you are [where he wanted to cuddle and have sex more than she did]. See, I observe that us men can be a bit needy in the sexual department, and our partners don't really enjoy dealing with this part of the male psyche. At the beginning when a man shifts to non-orgasmic behavior, it can look to the woman like this needy behavior is only getting worse. Yikes!

What the woman doesn't realize is that refraining from orgasm helps the man to develop a capacity to hold REAL space for the woman. Adoration, without the neediness, is exactly what women really want in their men. At least this is so from my observation. Don't worry, it won't be long before she can't get enough of you either. In the meantime, give her all the space she needs to adjust to the new you.

Topic:

Comments

thank you ..

I am pretty new to Karezza and she too is. I introduced to her about 4 months ago. I didnt understand why i was so needy of her attention and her presence, and she makes it difficult for me to be with her all the time. but i think this article just explains the need to give her the space and she will be back.

Oh Daryl

" give her all the space she needs to adjust to the new you." that is a helluva challenge. Where is the new me?
I get it. "I need to have sex." "OK, here it is, now don't bug me any more" and so, for 3-4 days I was happy and appreciative of her sacrifice and would indeed, not bug her. Now all the time I want a hug, a kiss, an adoring look. I'm trying, trying, trying to pull the need out. Two nights ago, I was hurt when she pulled away from a hug too soon, so last night, just a kiss, but gawd I wanted more.
Nice work may_help, digging up a post from 2012

My pet peeve

Hi Guys,

This resonates very strongly with a beef I've had regarding men for quite a while. I'm a guy, so I think I'm in a good place to comment.

"See, I observe that us men can be a bit needy in the sexual department, and our partners don't really enjoy dealing with this part of the male psyche."

Of course women don't. They're looking for their knight in shining armor, the "daddy" they never had. Who wants another kid? I'm not saying that their attitude is mature. It's a pretty infantile desire AND it is very common in my experience. Women, have, to a large degree given up on men in this department. I think women's lib did alot for them in that.

But where are we? Still longing for physical closeness and the kind of sex that prevents intimacy from building. Willing to bust ourselves for a woman so that we can postpone our own awareness of our own woundedness for another day, year, lifetime. Without some other avenue to fulfill our own needs and heal those deep wounds that doesn't necessarily depend on a woman, we aren't really in the driver's seat are we? The wounds that make us needy around women are "Mommy" wounds and I think the best place to make progress on healing them is with other men. As men, we need, I think, to learn to nurture our own bodies and each other's bodies so that we aren't so vulnerable to women's stuff. We need to get over our homophobic fears, off our philosopher's chair, out of our tendency to compete for mates, out of the suicidal hero trip and get practical about helping each other heal...deeply.

Another perspective

The male need for some physical attention is potentially a great boon to the attachment of the couple, which may be why it evolved. I don't assume it's "childishness" or a "search for mommy."

"Affiliative behaviors" are what keep pair bonds going. The trick is to realize that they don't have to be intercourse + ejaculation to "work." Holding his erection until it subsides when he needs attention and allowing him to caress breasts and other cuddles can be as effective as intercourse. So is mutual skin-to-skin contact. And it's good for both partners.

Pair-bonding monkeys, for example, engage in a lot of grooming, huddling and "mounting" behaviors (with and without ejaculation), and those who do the most, have the highest oxytocin (bonding hormone).

I'm quite in favor of intercourse, but when you're trying to find a middle ground with a partner who may be tired or feeling put upon, or the two of you just run out of time in the day, isn't it nice to know that no one has to "go hungry" even if sex isn't on the menu? If you start with the undemanding affliiative behaviors, you can often gradually work up to more demanding ones as the defensive barriers come down.

Yes

Hi Marnia,

Yes, I agree, if the woman is on the same page and willing to explore intimacy that way. In a hypersexualized culture that isn't always readily available. When the woman has deep wounds from past abuse, it isn't always available either. In addition, when a man has been hurt by his own mother as deeply as I have been it's one of the hardest places to go. The triggers and sense of isolation are overwhelming and occasionally life threatening. My bodymind can really freak with a very slight deviation from a healing direction.

Men can help ease that need in each other if they have the courage to do so. What's the big deal with doing healing touch exchanges between men? What's the big deal with helping each other heal from childhood sexual trauma through shared trauma healing practices? Why do white guys complain when you throw an arm around their shoulder? You would think I was asking for something so incredibly repulsive as to be unthinkable. Does EVERYTHING have to be sexual? Does our whole world revolve around getting into a Relationship? I have met the odd exception. They are very rare and very precious men.

In my mind the peak of love is friendliness. Much of what I see in Karezza is friendliness in action between a man and a woman who are physically intimate partners. What about other kinds of connections? Do we want to live in a world that is made up of happy heterosexual couples and let the odd fellow (or woman) who can't quite get there and the guys (and women) who are really struggling in an established relationship rot on the sidelines? That's not my vision. I like to see friendliness express itself in a wide variety of ways. Healing touch between men is one of them.

Do you see my point?

Sincerely,

Arnold

PS: Here's an example of what I'm talking about from a story I heard about WWII. Apparently when a European soldier got sick and had a fever, the members of his unit would put him in a sleeping bag and get two healthy guys to climb in beside him to keep him warm. American GIs would leave their sick guys on their own. American fatalities to illness were higher than their European counterparts. Perhaps homophobia isn't as big a deal amongst European males?

Sorry if I misread you.

Hi Marnia,

I'm sorry if I misread what you were intending to say. In my mind, there is a world of difference between a need for touch and a desire for touch. Desire has a healthy distance to it. Need is driven and potentially dangerous and volatile.

I really wish guys were more open to healing touch with each other (well let's say particularly with me). It's very painful for me to be sidelined so totally. I think it would be an excellent aspect of rebalancing and would keep some men in intimate relationships to be less need driven and more desire driven. It could have a stabilizing effect on their connection with their woman by taking some of the pressure off them. Opportunities for men for non-sexual touch are generally very limited and focused on heterosexual relationships. We are less commonly involved in child care. When we are it is with the kids of the woman we are or have been sexual with. Men who show an interest in kids are often suspected of pedophilia. We are less commonly present in the nursing field. We are less commonly involved in alternative therapies such as massage and healing touch.

For me, this poses significant problems. I'm either in a desert or thrown into a raging ocean. I starve or drown. Men could do alot to help if they so chose. Generally they don't. They are too frightened. Women who are often the only source of touch for me are challenging. Last month, I did one short healing touch exchange with a woman I met at a Quantum Touch gathering and spent the next week wondering if I would be able to get out of the bathroom long enough to get to the store and buy food. The trigger was very subtle but obviously powerful.

My point is that I think that there is much room for improvement amongst us men. I don't think we have really made a significant effort to heal our fear of each other. Women have worked on their anger. They have done much to transform it. I'm doing everything I can to heal myself. Expressing myself here is one of those things. I hope it helps men wake up a little and work on transforming our world a little more.

Thanks for listening and for providing a place where I can explore healing with people. I hope I haven't offended you.

Sincerely,

Arnold.

What about seeing if you can

get a community class going for learning reflexology, where everyone trades? Might be good for some reflexologists business and reputation, and if it were sponsored by the community, it would be inexpensive.

Thanks for trying.

Thanks Marnia,

I appreciate your efforts. If I were able to get a bunch of guys interested in reflexology it might be helpful. Chances of that, in my experience, are pretty slim. I'll bounce it off the First Nations men's healing group I attend and see where it goes. My hopes aren't high however. Mixed groups of any kind for me are very risky and it is usually women who take an interest in this kind of thing. Guys are safe for me and remarkably averse to any form of touch or even the idea that love between men (that involves anything other than talk) is a good thing. I've run into this wall a great deal. I'm tired of it.

I had an interesting dream last night. I was walking inside a very old dam on a moderate sized river that used to be used as a mill. The workings of the mill were all boarded up and the water was running freely over the spillways of the dam. I think my dream was trying to tell me that my use of my emotional energy was being wasted. I've a considerable amount of anger at the cowardice of men.

My youth was full of highly disguised (and highly celebrated) forms of fear. The military is expert at this. The only fellow I know locally (in a county of 100,000 men) who is open to loving non-sexual touch between men struggles with low self esteem. It's a fairly common affliction amongst men from Quebec. I suspect you might see a similar trend amongst Latino men in the USA. Unfortunately, he has much on his plate that is more pressing than to spend much time with me. One of my best anglo friend's offers of love for me was pills to commit suicide. This is Love, men style! Yet this same guy shows various forms of frustration and enmeshment with his intimate woman friend. It's a pattern I've seen alot.

I look forward to the day when all men healing touch groups or cuddle party groups exist and aren't confused with gay pick-up joints. I tried setting up a "Men for Love' group and ran into this reptutation fairly quickly. Men are generally so solidly stuck on the female teat, it is pathetic!

For now, I'm going to see if I can channel my anger (and pain) into a healthier direction. Finding ways to keep them from grinding to a dead end would be good. Writing here has been helpful and I thank you for that. I'll leave you with a quote attributed to Walt Whitman that I saw on a sign that was once at Rajneeshpuram Oregon and now stands in Walt Whitman Grove at Osho Humaniversity in Egmond an Zee, The Netherlands. It is dear to me and reflects many of the experiences I had in Oregon in 1985:

********************************************
I dream'd in a dream

I dream'd in a dream I saw a city invicible to the attacks of the whole rest of the earth
I dream'd that was the new city of Friends.
Nothing was greater there than the quality of robust love, it led the rest
It was seen every hour in the actions of the men of the city
And in all their looks and words.
********************************************

At one point I was thinking of updating it to say "Men and Women" but now I think I'll leave it as it was first written. I now think that when men truly have the courage to fully embrace love in all its forms, women and children will breathe a sigh of relief that we've finally caught up to them.

Sincerely,

"Arnold"

Triggers

Yes, I kind of figured that. I do appreciate your efforts.

I think I'm getting triggered by the shadow side of both genders. Woman's anger (which often expresses itself as seduction and sometimes very subtely) triggers terror in me. Men's fear, (I often experience this as an awkward silence or that kind of "deer in the headlights" look) triggers rage in me. I think I'm experiencing the same pattern in race relations (white culture tends to be very masculine (and fearful) and First Nations culture feminine (and angry)). The men's group I'm currently exploring tends to be challenging for me because I'm so white in what is a predominantly a First Nation's gathering. Our healing related needs are quite different.

I came across an underlying belief that I've decided to change. "I need a healthy community around me in order to fully heal myself". I've updated it to "I can heal myself regardless of the quality of community around me". It fits with the healing theory inherent to Quantum Touch and most meditative practices. I felt an immediate sense of relief.

Thanks for your patience with me as I raged! Smile

Sincerely,

Arnold.

Thanks Marnia!

Yes,

Isolation is a major concern of mine and very challenging to break out of. My naturopath wants me to do some trauma healing therapy with horses. Apparently animals are being used to help people heal from trauma.

I've also come across a fascinating book. I wonder if you heard of it "The Myth of Male Power: Why Men are the Disposable Sex" by Warren Farrell. It's a little dated (1993) but still resonates with my challenges and why men are generally so leery of healing touch amongst each other. He talks of two stages of relationship (Stage 1: Survival and rigid gender roles; Stage 2: Fulfillment and Love with much more freedom in gender roles). He claims that men have helped women move to Stage 2 but have neglected to follow themselves. His book is a fascinating read.

Cheers,

Arnold.

Thanks Taoman

No, I haven't. I'll look into it and try it. It certainly would be helpful for me to come to peace with my maleness and not be so fearful of fully feeling it. Thanks for the tip. Is it described anywhere on the web or do I have to get the book?

Sincerely,

"Arnold"