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Mon, 2008-03-10 12:07 — nicolas291985
is it bad to masturbate without orgasm and without porn? also, i'm at day 31 today.. doing well but yesterday i masturbated a while and didn't reach orgasm but am afraid it affected me? although i don't see how it's different from having non orgasmic sex with someone. feedback please
* Bad *
I try not to look at this process in terms of *good* or *Bad* I just don't think it is helpful. I'm attempting to have minimal contact with my genitals or nipples; both of which are very stimulating. As of now I have three days back on my plan after three slips within a 10 day period. My biggest challenge is the pornographic fantasy that triggers my desire to stimulate myself. I hope this helps you.
Cheers!
I read this and I've been
I read this and I've been stewing over it because it is a very difficult question to answer because everyone is different. I'm actually just two days ahead of you, and I recently had a set of strong sexual urges like you are mentioning... As far as I can see it, I have a hands-off policy. Don't touch, it makes it a lot harder to get to that point. I think Marnia will tell you it's different than non-orgasmic sex because it's a completely different set of actions/emotions/neurotransmitters involved, although I have not done some of the work others have.
I'd say it has affected you, at the very least it has made you question your actions. To me, that is a natural thought after it happens. I'd say you have been affected, but in a normal way.
I wish I had an easy answer for you guys
but it seems that you are also MY teachers when it comes to the porn challenge. This debate calls to mind the article I'm working on summarizing that book I mentioned not long ago written by a friend's spiritual teacher. It's called the The Complete Yoga of Human Emotional-Sexual Life by Adi Da Samraj, The Dawn Horse Press (2007).
I had always steered away from talking about this particular teacher's material on my site because a former devotee had recounted some unsavory stories about the teacher's behavior in the 1970s. However, as most people who come to insights about sacred sex get there because the "heat 'em up" philosophy proves to have limitations, I guess there's no reason to assume that this man has not evolved past that sort of thing in the last 30 years.
Anyway, I resolved to look at the book with an open mind. There's certainly nothing licentious about it. His language is very stuffy and grandiose, BUT (I'm finally getting to the point here, Gentlemen
) he believes that practitioners need to start with a celibate practice in order to prepare for union with a partner. The details of the practice are very few, but that may be because the practice is mostly about *not* doing. His devotees do the practice while thinking of their blissful connection with their spiritual teacher. Since you're presumably *not* his devotee, you may find it effective to substitute some other aspect of the Divine (the Divine Feminine, for example?) with whom to "commune lovingly."
I share this information because suppression of sexual energy doesn't seem to work for long. This dynamic energy has to MOVE. It's either "out" or "up." And the "up" seems to work best if you are pouring a lot of your life force energy into a creative pursuit or service to others, AND if you have the desire to connect deeply with someone you love (the Divine can stand in for a real partner, because ultimately, it's the Divine aspects of your partner that you will want to unite with anyhow). Maybe you could choose an image of what the "Divine feminine" looks like to you, and focus on that.
Fer example, here's an image of Isis reviving Osiris from death. Someone had dismembered him and scattered him around the globe. *tisk, tisk* She was kind enough to collect him, stitch him back together, and revive him. That's what I call a goddess!
http://www.reuniting.info/images/isis2SM.jpg
Another element is patience. There's no "quick fix" for learning this.
Anyhow, with all that in mind, here are the brief instructions in his book about the celibate practice. I'm not recommending them. I don't know if they would help or hurt. I know they could definitely be a problem with porn flash-backs in the mix. I merely share them in case they offer another clue in your determination to restore your balance.
Own-body sexual yoga
The Complete Yoga advises the student to begin with solo practice aimed at learning both how to prolong sexual arousal, and how to breathe and conduct the life-current in the body-mind in a kind of circle that moves down the front of the body and then upward along the spine toward the crown of the head. Sexual polarity is only “skin deep” - serving the purpose of physical reproduction. At deeper states of mind and body, polarity is transcended. By experiencing this sense of wholeness while celibate, a person can stop thinking of intimacy as a cure for “incompleteness.” At that point, a person is less likely to try to “get” something from a lover.
The “own-body yogic sexual practice” calls for the student to self-stimulate the genitals as a conscious exercise, or as a devotional exercise. Orgasm is generally avoided, and the aroused sexual energy is breathed down the front of the body and exhaled up the spine in a relaxed manner. It should be done both as a training for sex with a partner, and whenever there is a feeling of concentrated or suppressed sexual energy in the sexual organs, head or heart.
If any of you give this a try, I hope you'll share your results.
"For example, here's an
"For example, here's an image of Isis reviving Osiris from death. Someone had dismembered him and scattered him around the globe. *tisk, tisk* She was kind enough to collect him, stitch him back together, and revive him. That's what I call a goddess! "
It contains so many metaphores at different levels. It seems that when you take a partnership seriously, this is what happens. Our fragmented living, or not being whole, is revealed by self examination when we pay attention to our emotions and take responsibility for them. My wife and I are stitching each other together. I used to think I was doing all the stitching. What an egotistical position. Now every needle jab feels like love. You can read that one any way you want a dozen different times.
The last portion of Marnias post, Own-body sexual yoga, has a lot of good advice in it. I will go 95% on it. A little more clarity on the self-stim portion: the body learns that you are in control of your arousal and it learns to follow you. Kind of like teaching a dog to stop barking by teaching it to bark on command. Interestingly I used to do this self stim during my daily tantric practice[45minutes]. No orgasm. It might seem at first glance that it would lead to frustration but it distributes the energy throughout the body and one feels totally arousal-neutral by the finish. Peaceful and strong. I learned this through the Ipsalu Tantra workshops in Ohio and added my own adaptations.
Gentlemen, mastering your internal body energy streams is the whole key. Perhaps I will write an article on it because I find myself having to repeat the fundamentals over and over here.
Either that, or we can start some workshops using pavlovian aversion therapy. Naw, the mainstream religions tried that and it wrecked everything.
Luke
Yes, please DO write that article
I would like to post it on the site and include it in a newsletter. You can easily track your past posts from your "My Account" page. I've also enabled you to blog (instructions here: http://www.reuniting.info/resources/bloggers) if you'd prefer to blog your wisdom first.
It's apparent that single guys cannot easily just suppress their sexual energy. In fact, I don't think that's healthy. This is why I encourage them to connect with mates. However, some insist they are not ready - and perhaps they are wise to balance themselves first.
The point is that they need to have an alternative way to cope in the interim...without simply resorting to conventional masturbation all the time. It's too addictive.
So thanks, Luke.
Teachings of Mantek Chia
This thread on masturbation without orgasm reminds me of books done by Mantek Chia that I found very helpful. In his books (The multi-orgasmic man/women/couple) the practice is called "solo cultivation" and it provides the practitioner the chance to move energy from the genitals up to the higher chackras - using yogic breathing and the energy pathway referenced by Marnia's post. Stimulation is discontinued any time the practitioner is in danger of passing the "point of no return" and breathing continues until the genital area "cools off" and stimulation can continue. There is no orgasm, no ejaculation and loss of vital, seminal fluids and thus, the practice is considered energizing and good for health and longevity. As a man that has been in an addictive state most of his life, it is refreshing to contemplate that I no longer have to pray for the strength of will to control this wonderful sexual energy that I am blessed with but allow the energy to flow freely with beneficial effects for my body, mind and spirit. Blessings to all that are sharing here.
Richard
Thanks Richard
and welcome to the site!
Caveat on Solo Cultivation
Enjoyed the chance to offer my first post on this site last night and had my usual "one last thought" on the subject. For someone struggling with sexual addiction, learning to choose not to orgasm can be very difficult as we are so conditioned to the reward that we get when we cum. Be gentle with yourself and expect at first that you may not accomplish perfect abstinence from orgasm - life is always about progress, not perfection. Also, be honest with yourself and try to understand the thoughts and feelings that are often the source of our need to "medicate". As I think about this real time, it occurs to me that by achieving the state of chemical balance that comes about 2 weeks after an orgasm, one could proceed to transition to solo cultivation with greater success...just a thought and worth a try.
Richard