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Bliss
After a few weeks of feeling generally lonely in my new apartment with Goldenheart gone and living in a new part of the city, I am now in another place of feeling sated with good company and grateful for the goodness of life. The I-ching I threw before moving into this apartment pointed to a general decline before a new flourishing. I have a growing inner awareness that I may just be standing at the edge of an abyss, a tipping point, a willingness - to actually let myself be happy, to actually let myself enjoy what I say i am ready for (a healthy, ecstatic, mutually nourishing partnership). The point being a willingness to receive and surrender into sharing myself - a feeling, an actual muscular experience of how good it feels to set aside the bull, the denial that we are divine and by this I mean being full love.
The weeks of loneliness are receeding, thanks also to my parents and brother's recent visit and some great conversations with Goldenheart on the phone.
My parents had no clue my brother was flying up; him and I secretly arranged it. He went straight from the airport to the Chinese Gardens and hide in the back of the teahouse till we arrived. Then he came out with the tray of tea, our waiter - wearing his black sunglasses. My mother at first did not recognize him but then when she did she cried and kissed us tenderly on the cheeks.
My brother needed the visit too, as he has been having some challenges in his relationship with his Korean girlfriend, mostly what he describes as cultural conflicts. She is a beautiful girl (former teen model) but apparently always needs to be in his company, he can't find any alone time. She also talks about getting surgery - breast implants or creased eyelids, as many of her fellow wealthy Korean model friends do. The pressure for her to rely on and enhance her beauty has been enormous, and she briefly had to return to Korea after fainting from starving herself. She wears silicone inserts in her bra to push her little titties up, something my brother hates. He says that she watches shows about breast implantation on TV.
My brother has said that he has tried to support her by letting her know he loves her little boobs, likes her without makeup, and would break up with her if she got implants. He is really irritated with her right now because she wants to take the pill (which he thinks is terrible for women, and so uses condoms), not because she wants to be sure about preventing pregnancy, but because it will cause her breasts to get larger. So, he is trying to "liberate" her - which sure seems like a big job. He feels she knows beneath it all that there is something more about her that he supports which she is not quite able yet to see yet.
So good to have my parents here, staying in my room. We cooked for eachother, massaged eachother, combed eachother's hair, hiked up to mount tabor in the morning light to do chi kung, went to a concert of ecstatic Sufi music from Pakistan in a lush garden in my friend's backyard (I said to my mother, "no worries, mama, the hippies are alive and thriving. You're not going to become an extinct species of human.") Had a potluck with my teacher Yangsi, in which my father excitedly talked to him for about 20 minutes about yurts (which we lived in for the first four years - one my mom sewed on the sewing machine). Went to the blues festival and danced, ate oysters and chowder, watched fireworks on Mt Tabor and drank wine, went home to room and danced and talked until 1am.
I also had a longstanding conversation with them and my brother about transorgasmic sex.
My mother is always wanting more cuddling and affection, so of course she bought into the idea right away. My father is very quick to judge and also highly suspicious of anything that he considers unnatural and also of humanbeing's willingness in general to manipulate themselves. He even thinks taking supplements is a ridiculous human maneuver, a focus on "what is not right" about ourselves - our general mistrust that our body knows what it is doing. So I just read the quote in Marnia's book to him about the dangers of judgement without firsthand experience and that quieted him down.
He later became more interested in the book when I described it in terms of the limbic brain and how we have historically seen things like sugar, fats, and sex as being scarce (because they were), and how our limbic brain is operating from an assumption of scarcity even as we live in the midst of excess. This angle interested him.
Which was good, because I could palpably feel my mother's hurt at his initial unwillingness to try the exchanges in the book, or even to consider reading the book. I could feel her discouragement, and I was glad that we later ended up talking about it, because my mom was able to speak up and say, "Yeah, well why would I want to make love to a man who doesn't want to try anything new, anyway?"
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Bliss indeed
What a lovely blog, hotspring! I could feel the love and connection with your family flowing off the page and wrapping around me like a warm blanket.
It is so good to be with those who feed our hearts.
I have had a conversation with my younger brother and also a brief one with my son, who is nineteen today, about some of these ideas. Nothing in depth with my son, but I was amazed at his openness about what we did talk about. I know that my heart has been opened by these ideas, and I feel that the change in me internally and in my thinking about what shape love takes in my life has made me softer and more accessible to the people around me. Sounds like you may have had a similar experience.
Good to hear it.
Cariad
Always good to hear your "voice" Hotspring
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I love wise men like your dad who can stick to their guns, but also hear deeper wisdom. It's a challenge to find ways to share this information so that it can be heard - at least long enough for people to experiment with the ideas and *then* decide.
Although I am pretty used to
Although I am pretty used to speaking to my parents about sex and sexuality, I must say that introducing these ideas is difficult, mostly because I am a "father's daughter" - that is, I find my father to be a very intelligent person whose opinion I value, so - to have him outright reject this concept without speaking in-depth to me about it first was a real challenge, because I generally agree with his gut instincts, and so instead of bowing down to his intelligent argument, had to find a way to make it accesable to him. THe nice things is that with him, if you've got your shit together enough to bring forward a convincing argument, he will very deeply consider it, whereas if you flake out from intimidation with his conviction, he isn't willing. It's almost like a test. If I am to say something with conviction, I must always back it up with a sound and lucid explanation.
The funny thing about my dad - and this is what we all spoke about - is that he comes off as a very rational person but actually decides mostly from his gut, then translates it quickly and efficiently into a rational (and therefore culturally-acceptable) form. My mother, him and I had a really interesting conversation about different forms of intelligence and ways of "collecting data." Turns out we're all pretty intuitive people. But my father and I feel a need to put it in a digestible, analytical framework, often without even realizing the intuitive source of our convictions. Whereas my mother is also very intuitive but sometimes second-guessses herself and her sources of information, probabaly because she senses on a deeper level that it is a strange or somewhat contrived to always have to express what is an intuitive intelligence in a linear fashion for it to be considered.
That's why she likes me to argue with my dad, because I am able to challenge him from a woman's perspective from within a more "male" way of communicating.
Breast size and makeup
I'm with your brother. My wife has rather small breasts, which I like just fine. They fit nicely in my hands. If small breasts were unattractive to me, well, I wouldn't have found my wife attractive when we first met, would I?
Really large breasts I find somewhat distracting, and not in a pleasant way. They make me feel threatened, sort of.
Do women care how big their man's penis is (within reasonable limits)? I haven't conducted a survey, but I suspect most women don't. So, is it so hard to believe that some men don't care about breast size?
I don't like makeup. Lipstick is messy, feels unnatural (greasy), and tastes yucky. Rouge, mascara, and so on look unnatural and have a chemical smell up close. I asked my wife, very early in our relationship, to stop using makeup, and thankfully, she did.
The "glamorous" look, found on the covers of women's magazines, doesn't appeal to me. Even the ladies in Playboy don't turn me on. Never have.
Women, get a clue. Some men like big boobs and makeup. Others are happy with small or medium sized breasts and prefer the natural look. Be your natural, beautiful self. There are men out there who will like you just as you are.
By the way, Hotspring, I found your story about growing up in a hippy community very interesting. Thank you for writing about it.
Hormonal augmentation
I feel a certain resonance for your mum and dad. Maybe because I'm something of an ageing hippy myself. I wonder, though. Do they have 'peace between the sheets'? (I don't mean the book!) I got the impression from something you said in an earlier post that they were doing fine, in that respect. I'd love to know what they think of the 'hangover from orgasm' idea; whether they've noticed it, from their life together.
I'm also with your brother on the breast issue. What a sad business. My wife has small breasts, and I can't compute the number of times I've said to her how much more attractive I find them than the larger models everyone else seems to clamour after. Now, even though she is no longer in the first flush of youth, instead of having pendulous weights to deal with, she still has amazingly pert peaches for me to cup my hands around. And, of course, it also means she doesn't have to wear a bra, which is great, too. Thinking about it, it's just as well my wife can withstand perceived scorn on these issues, as she doesn't shave under her arms, either, which I love, but which her sister considers seriously abhorrent.
My wife did acquire larger breasts, though, when she got pregnant ...
Thanks to all you lovers of
Thanks to all you lovers of small breasts who also favor the sparser side of the makeup continuum.
It's been clear to me growing up in a place where I got to see a wide range of naked bodies that there's just no end to the variety of human beauty. I think all breast sizes are beautiful, and I can certainly understand a man's attraction to the lushness of large breasts, or to the perky lightness of smaller breasts. My mother is a small-breasted, long-legged beauty. She said she enjoyed having large breasts for a little variety during nursing, but was happy when they went back to their manageable size. I'm small-breasted, and my breasts sometimes hurt during chi-kung from all the jostling. I can only imagine how hard it could be with larger breasts. I suppose it makes sense that men would be attracted to women with larger breasts as some sort of signal of fertility, tho small breasts can provide just as much milk for a child as larger ones, so there's no actual basis in reality there.
As for penis size - I think we've already discussed this. I've found that the hardness of the erection is much more important than the size, tho I bet Marnia would disagree with me. The vagina is infinitely adaptable, and strong pelvic floor muscles can grip onto something the size of a pencil. The uterus and cervix can also be pushed down. So no, its not as important as one would think. And I do have women friends who have very short vaginal canals and low cervixes who avoid men with large penises. It would be dishonest for me to say that I haven't enjoyed being with men who were very large, but that may be just because I happen to be quite long myself (so I've been told). Clearly there's no rule here, its more about how two people fit together.
Something about this topic makes me feel a little uneasy. Maybe because we all know that part of healing the rift between the sexes is not through finding out whether women in truth prefer men with long schlongs, or men in truth prefer women with big knockers - but through realizing that there is delight in the variety and uniqueness of each person, and how their body expresses their soul. Women, like men, can appreciate and enjoy a wide variety of "tools" - like breasts, they each have their own distinct personality - from arrogant to divine to adorable. Probably most men don't want to think of their penises as adorable, but sometimes they really are (and not just the small ones). I love how relaxed they are when soft, they are so sweet.
I've got to watch what I say about my parents in here because my mom knows my username now and will probably be online at some point in her exploration of the book. She knows about the forum, so perhaps she'll be telling you all in person about any hangover effect in her marriage with my dad.
As I mentioned before, my mom's sexual appetite seems to be considerably larger than my dads. Perhaps it is because my father is an early riser and so is tired in the evening when she is alert. Perhaps it is that he is not super affectionate and so she has learned that to get physical attention from him, it is most likely to come through sex. Surely she loves sex. But I sense that it is true for many women that part of their eroticism is being affectionate and physical without actually having sex.
My mother and father do have some minor tensions, which I alluded to before, but for the most part are really great partners. Most of the tension seems to come from my mother's feelings of being discounted, that her opinion is not valued, or that my father does not know how to have a conversation with her or anyone that is not what she considers to be argumentative. I don't see him as argumentative, because I myself enjoy taking a strong position for the sake of exploring an idea, and see that this too is what he is doing. He is not actually even fixed on the rightness of his position, he simply enjoys an exchange of ideas. Whereas my mother likes more to share stories, experiences. So she often feels like he's unnecessarily contrary, or simply not very fun to engage with, or that he will override her subjective data or see it as irrelevant. He is certainly very quick to conclude, and I think this is to his disadvantage. There is much that he does not explore or share with others because of his self-sufficiency and his sense of being an expert in many things. So, these same qualities also have their positive side, in that he is decisive, intelligent, and a good source of information in the areas of history, current affairs, and science. My mother is much more flowing, organic, and warm. She needs a lot of stimulation in the form of affection and interaction that my father is not always able to provide. She's a juicy lady.
So yes, they have managed to have a pretty healthy relationship despite around thirty years of orgasmic sex. It will be interesting to see what changes or shifts happen when they read the book. I don't think they are having a lot of sex right now, around once a month - tho my mom would like it to be more. So the orgasmic hangover is likely not a huge factor right now. Still, I think the exchanges could be really good for them because my father is pretty goal oriented and perhaps after years of feeling it is his responsibility to make her orgasm, he will find the change refreshing. Or maybe it will be threatening. But even if they are not having much of a hangover right now, I know my mom could really use some quality affection, so this might put them on the right track.
Quote:Probably most men
Hahaha, so true!
Yep
Yep. I have to get on the "adorable" bandwagon, too
Cariad
Interesting comments,
Interesting comments, really. I have never thought of my penis as something adorable. I haven't downright loathed it, but you know, it's quite a gross piece of flesh.
I have always adored female bits, though. Always found them much nicer than mine. I have never understand the talk about women being "dirty"; to me it seemed obvious that it's the men who are dirty so that "women are dirty" thing never made sense to me. I was always baffled when I heard that (in the old times), women were sent away when they had their periods, as if they were a danger to others. Wonder if they did the same to those who had a cold...
Interestingly, you(hotspring) say that erection is important(I take it that the harder the better), and then say that they're so adorable when they're soft. A penis can do no wrong, heh.
The erection thing is also an interesting thing. Of course we are not our genitals, but still - to have sex, woman has to get relaxed, and man has to get tense. The tenser the better... It seems I never get to relax..
(This reminds a lot of the "man is the pilot, woman is the boat, woman has to relax and let go, man has to be in control" thing... I'm not too big fan of that concept you see, hehe).
Piloting doesn't have to be effortful
It's more a type of awareness that seems to come naturally - than a wariness.
Gross piece of flesh? No no,
Gross piece of flesh? No no, my dear friend, HARDLY so. More like a staff of life, delight, and beauty! Sacred lingam, yummy!
Tho I would say I like them hard, soft, and inbetween, history makes it impossible for me to say they can do no wrong . . .
I think the idea that man has to get tense and woman relaxed is simplistic. The vagina is a muscle, after all, one of the most powerful of the body. It, like the penis, engorges with blood. I'd claim that both women and men need to know how to relax into the tension or engorgement. I think that both men and women have yin and yang aspects within them. So, while the pilot and boat analogy is nice IN GENERAL, history again has shown that an overidentification with either extreme (active, receptive) as being only appropriate for one sex is very dangerous. But perhaps this is only so because the roles and gender qualities were seen and used in terms of power-over, or superior/inferior - rather than seen as a shared, mutually complimentary power.
Although I don't really think I can imagine a sex life in which I am piloted by the man without ever taking on the active role at least occasionally, I do think that because many women essentially mistrust men, taking the position of the boat could be very enjoyable with a person who knew how to steer well. It could break down the mistrust and allow us to luxuriate in real receptivity. Problem is, it's a sortov chicken and egg sort of thing. The only way to know if you can really trust the guy is to actually try it, and if you happened to misjudge, you may just end up screwed over. So, too many of us opt for the safer, but not necessarily better option, of playing it safe and trying to maintain some form of control.
subject
Well, I was joking anyway, but still, damn. I guess they do more bad than good, right? Vaginas don't do bad things... you can't rape someone with a vagina...
Damn, damn, damn. Why do I always get this defensive... Ugh. Sometimes I wish I was a woman. Even though all the pain, at least then I wouldn't be the bad guy.
Well, Vaginas can be cold,
Well, Vaginas can be cold, resentful, and pissed off, even if they can't rape anyone (not to mention yeasty, bloody, itchy, etc).
So, maybe the key is in how you regard your tool. Vow never to think of yourself as having a dick or a prick, and you won't be one. If you regard yourself as having a staff of divine generosity - now that can do no wrong! If you regard it as ugly and nasty, it can do ugly and nasty things.
PS. I want to add that
PS. I want to add that there could be other reasons for what looks to be my father's lower libido when compared to my mother. I recall once that he mentioned he felt that in humans, women are the selectors. They are the ones who give the signal when they are ready to mate or not. From this standpoint, it would be inappropriate or pushy for a man to instigate lovemaking without a signal from the woman that she desires to receive him. Clearly his standpoint is a little extreme, since my mother hungers for more contact than she is getting. Perhaps, too, he consciously or unconsciously realizes that the stereotype of male as active and female as receptive is either no longer appropriate or needs experimentation for women to discover their power after years of being a slave to men's whims. Perhaps he is trying to empower her to state her needs more loudly, to be active in seeking out and manifesting what she wants? He's surely a feminist, in some ways even moreso than my mother, even while he falls into the typical stereotype of being a more reserved, linear, and rational male.
The point is I think there needs to be a balance - between women feeling totally pawed over and pushed or completely disregarded and ignored. There's a huge spectrum of juicy eroticism that is missed out on in both approaches. Women need to feel desired, loved, and reached out to, but not pushed. Who can stand in that balance? Not many couples I have seen.
I confess that
I never thought of the pilot/boat concept as a bar to my suggesting intimate contact - although I would never push a partner into sexual arousal, knowing what I know now. I would just suggest a snuggle...a chance to nurture him...and let it lead wherever it leads. In my experience the absence of performance demands (going both ways) actually results in a steady glow of attraction. We can explore that glow, or leave it, but it's there.
I guess that in my understanding (which could be wrong), the Taoists weren't talking about initiating sex, or activeness vs. passiveness *outside* the bedroom. They were talking about a tango dynamic *inside* the bedroom. One partner leads with great sensitivity and careful attentiveness - that becomes a blissful altered state, according to tango dancers, as the music dances *them* - and one follows. Yet there's an enlivening, back-and-forth and mirroring dynamic also going on between the dancers, with lots of eye contact and a surprising degree of intimacy. The woman isn't pushed around like a cardboard box on wheels.
Your family sounds great.
I'm looking forward to learning what your parents think of the Exchanges, in due course. They might, as you say, find the idea refreshing, as I think my wife would; or threatening, as I certainly do.
I suspect they (the Exchanges) require a lot of sustained motivation. From what you say, your parents sound fairly content, as they are. More affection is always good, though. I'm working on that, myself!
Hi Sood - This just in from
Hi Sood -
This just in from my mom: "I've been reading the peace between the sheets book and we are considering doing the exercises. Don't know if J has the time (or interest) to read the book, though. I don't know if I have noticed any sex hangovers like Marnia speaks about from orgasm. Know I have been addictive about sex in the past...masturbating a lot 20 years ago. I am interested in a heart connection with Joseph and more caring affection so this may be a good approach. Just reading the exercises now. Talk to you later, my dear. I am still glowing from our family time together. Love, Mom"
I have a feeling my dad's going to be a hard nut to crack on this one. If only he knew there was a whole group of people scattered across the world who were rooting for him to try it! Unfortunately, if he knew, that would be just the thing to make him not try it. So we'll keep hush with him - in the meantime, no fear. My mother bares all. Hoping there is something to tell.
Goldenheart will be returning in a few weeks. I can easily say he is the person I have had the most success with in this approach. He has no qualms about it philosophically, it's more an issue of practice. What a fun thing to practice!
Exchanges
It'll be fascinating to hear how they get on, if they get started. It may be just what your dad's looking for. I've probably said it before, but one objection I have to the Exchanges is that they appear so non sexual. As a committed sensualist, I simply don't have the motivation, at present, to cultivate a spiritual connection. Karezza, though, I find much more acceptable, because all this really means (to me) is normal intercourse slowed right down, with its beginning, and a long, drawn out middle, but without its traditional ending.
This does seem to make for a greater connection, which is very visceral, in my experience, without necessarily being a 'heart connection'.
Maybe if your dad doesn't take to the Exchanges in their pure form your mum could steer him towards Karezza?
I wish them joy.
Just to clarify...
The Exchanges are not an end in themselves.
I guess there's no way to make people read the actual book,
but the Exchanges are there to aid the transition from one way of making love to the other. They are a one time exercise (although couples often benefit from going back to them for a few nights if they drift off course again).
They are not "separate" from karezza. They are a way to move toward it, even while under the influence of the hangover that follows sexual satiation. As my husband says, you wouldn't try to run a marathon without training first, and most of us need a bit of time to reorient before we can jump from one way of making love to the other.
Also, most people find out that the Exchanges turn out to be surprisingly sensual and enjoyable. I know you do very similar things with your spouse already, Sood. But some couples have drifted right away from sensual touch that is not goal driven. It enriches their lives to rediscover it.
The chief risk of "jumping in" to sex without orgasm is that people tend to get too close to the edge. That strains the prostate, and can also create frustration. The solution is to realize that the sensual touch is the most soothing part of the exercise. That seems to be easiest by simply engaging in non-goal-driven affection for a couple of weeks. It gives people a chance to realize how rewarding that can be - and let it register in their nervous systems.
Then intercourse itself becomes another form of sensual touch. On the other hand, if intercourse is seen as "the goal," then it's typical to focus on the next "goal" of more friction, and then frustration builds and pretty soon it's business-as-usual, and the couple goes right past karezza...wondering what it was all about.
I want to help people not to miss "it."
Business-as-usual
You're right. On all counts!
My hat goes off to those who manage to make the transition, however they do it.
From mom: "Have been reading
From mom:
"Have been reading Peace between the sheets and realize I have been this grabby hot mamma and need to attend to J more lovingly...although he doesn't have time. He may not want to do the non-orgasm thing, but I may interest him in trying. Don't like the focus on all these terrible things that happen to you if you do have an orgasm (had never noticed that) but I like the affection time it suggests. I have been pretty non-sexual lately, and watching my behavior."
Stimulating Topic
Welcome back Hotspring and thank you for all the wisdom and insight that you share.
I shall enjoy pondering what if any wisdom I can share on this multi-faceted topic but sometimes, it's just too much fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.
Richard
As the Saying Goes
"You take care of your genitals, and your genitals will take care of you!"
All kidding aside, I love the erotic metaphors found in tantric prose - of yoni, dripping with honey - flowery lotus blossum in full bloom, flowing with sweet nectar - of lingum, wand of light, sword of creative energy and pleasure.
I agree with you hotspring that our relationship with and feelings about our genitals can be a mirror reflecting many deeper things in our lives.
I can only imagine how distorted my thinking might be, were it not for an archetypical older women experience in my freshman year of college. Her nurturing lovemaking, along with pleasure in exploring my body and allowing me to explore her left an indelible mark on my psyche that genitals in all their diverse forms are things of beauty to be cherished.
Sadly, many men and women alike are not as fortunate in such formative experiences.
I've piloted a few boats in my day and yet never have trouble rejoicing in the divine feminine unleashed and allowed to chart her own course.
It is a man's "fools game" to think he can maintain his erection through force of will and I pity our current cultural male mindset that downs Viagra like cheap champagne. It is the wise man that is equally adept with a "hard on" or a "soft on" and has discovered the realm and magic of energy exchange in all it's infinite expressions.
In days since past, I found myself browsing swinger's web sites and reflecting on the preponderance of male profiles that presented detached pictures of erect male genitalia, as if the women choosing a partner would do so solely on the basis of their phallic assets. For all I know, many did.
Ironically, there was also a goodly amount of female profiles on the site that seemed to celebrate their female attributes in the same way.
I remain convinced that the mind is the largest erogenous zone of the body, more essential than specific physical attributes. Then again, what did you expect from someone who would never be mistaken for a porn star!
I am grateful to be back in balance with my sexuality these days with the ability to enjoy the beautiful feminine soul and yin energy that is part and parcel of a woman's God given physical attributes.
And give me a low maintenace women without the need for excessive paint any day!
Until I have a chance to view the Vagina Monologues (it is on my "someday" list of must see videos) I will take liberty with the Wizard of Oz to proclaim:
Can I say that?
Richard
*giggle*
What fun! The Taoists, too, have some beautiful terminology for genitals, such as "jade stalk" and "glittering cave" or "jade palace" - jade was a precious stone with revered qualities - and many more that I can't think of now.
And Sir Flower, whatever naughty things genitals have got up to in the past, my inner guidance says that we can't go Home without you guys. I know that will irritate you, as it's not politically correct - but just in case it turns out to be right, I'm happy to adore the highest and best in all males (and, yes, females).
Maybe it's because I've been a male in past lives, but I'm really clear that due to a poor education, a lot of people have been making a lot of really inevitable, biologically-driven errors. Karmically it sucks, but that doesn't mean everyone involved is any less an angel underneath their mistakes. The good news is that when we overlook others' errors, the karma that comes back must be unconditional forgiveness for us, too!
Since we're all wallowing around in maya, and actually immortal spirit beings merely frolicking in matter, there's - ultimately - no harm done, however ugly things look during the agitation segment of the cycle. (For the laundry-illiterate, that's a washer metaphor.)
That being said, I think that as we learn more about Sneaky Mother Nature, and some of our other options for managing our life force energy to achieve deeper satisfaction, it will be easier and easier to keep our genitals aligned with our noble hearts.
So forget all those bad dreams of the past, and just focus on what you can do to nourish the people in your life lovingly and protectively - as you would like to be nurtured.
A big hug,
Marnia
My Spirit Resonates
with your vision for balance between the sexes and we all owe it to ourselves to get clear on how we can contribute to healing the polarization and alienation that has permeated our culture and our relationships.
How nice that we can share the intelligence, spirit and honesty here that takes us beyond our biological/sexual imperative.
There is a wonderful depth of richness to be gleaned when we journey to an intimate sexuality beyond just the physical act of copulation.
Has anyone read "Passionate Marriage - Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships" by David Schnarch? With chapters like, "Sexual Desire: Who Wants to Want?", "Hugging till Relaxed", "Love and Foreplay Aren't Blind, Unless You Insist on It" and "Fucking, Doing and Being Done: It Isn't What You Do, It's the Way You Do It" - I am intrigued that there is much for me to learn, come the day I experience a partner with equal/balanced desire in their sexuality.
Could Happen???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard
David Schnarch
I've read that book, Richard, along with a couple of others by the same author. His two most often repeated suggestions are hugging until relaxed (he places great store on noticing who wants to end a hug first) and making love with eyes open, looking into each other's eyes (so as not to trance out, or go inward). But his stories about his own relationship, and his insistence on what he calls individuation, left me a little cold. He describes going hiking with his wife, and leaving her miles behind because she can't maintain his pace, and claiming that is healthier than adjusting his pace to suit her.
Of course, he might be right. He's certainly worth reading. Here's a snippet from a review:
"The root of marital conflict is not failure to communicate. Rather, it is accurate communication between incompletely individuated people. Individuation means the ability to connect with another, even in conflict, without losing one's own sense of self. When individuation is lacking, members of a couple must find ways to keep their distance from their partners in order not to lose their sense of self. This distancing is the root of marital (or other committed couple) discord."
Thanks, Richard
I clearly have to read that book. I've been resisting because most marriage books perpetuate the habituation-to-partner problem while purporting to cure it, and I'm tired of reading advice that sounds good, but ignores our mammalian brain's deeper program to engage in sexual satiation and then look around for the next set of genes.
But those are intriguing chapter titles. Sounds like that guy has a clue!
Good Things Come In Small Packages or My Attitude about Tits
I once had a really beautiful girlfriend with small tits. On one of our first nights in bed together she asked me if I liked her tits and told me that she had issues about the size. I replied, "good things come in small packages." I loved her tits and her for four years. The worse thing I ever did was break up with her four years later because I was not sexually satisfied anymore. I found out years later that she loved me and would have married me if I had asked. But this was in the early 1970's and I was young and foolish.
Satisfaction
William, I have to ask.
In what way were you not "sexually satisfied anymore"?
I'm assuming (maybe wrongly) the two of you were still sexually active.
I Couldn't Give Her Space
For a brief time we stopped having sex because she needed space. I went along with it but eventually could not REALLY give her the space she needed. I believe that if I knew then what I know now, we could have worked it out. We could have gone to the Exchanges for a while and taken a sexual holiday and then gone to a less goal oriented way of lovemaking. But that was over 30 years ago.
Hindsight
I wish I had known 30 years ago an awful lot that I know now. Maybe that's just the way it's got to be. We learn as we get older. I'm not sure I would have taken much notice even if I had met a latter day version of myself and been told he was what I would one day become ...
Wisdom
I agree, Sood. Perhaps there's a certain amount of recklessness and self-absorption we need to experience when we're young. I know I did things when I was younger it would never occur to me to do today. On the other hand, that same youthful, life-filled young woman still lives in me in my middle age, and helps me remember that, even though I'm older and wiser, I'm far from being dead......
See, William, even though you did not make that young woman your wife, she is still with you, informing you today. That's the gift of having people in our lives.