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Identity Crises
(FrAgMeNtS)
It's the great battle that isn't. There is no-one to fight except myself.
Whether I do or not, the outcome hangs on whether I attach to that fleeting thought (of sitting down at the PC and etc...) or let it go. I hope I can learn to let go more often.
I do what I do not wish to do (indulge in unwholesome porn). Something is wrong here...just who is in charge?
I need to learn a new bliss. The art of being intoxicated by Love and a true purpose, rather than the 'bliss' of immediate, short-term pleasure.
The addiction will not go quietly. I keep wishing it would. When I determine to give it up I always believe that I should somehow be rewarded for this noble aspiration by not having the cravings. But it was I who created these brain-pathways of impulsive action for pleasure, and it's I who will have to undo them- by seeing them for what they truly are- NOT SELF.
So Agent Bright must prepare for weeks and maybe months of tears and sadness before he is back in balance again. I am ok today but the cravings and associated depression will return again, won't they? I hope all these tears will not go to waste. May they sink into the field of experience and water the tree of Wisdom.
- Asher's blog
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Comments
You are right. Addiction is
You are right. Addiction is a crisis of identity, but a bigger one than I think you realize.
Addiction, as I've been realizing as I've been recovering, is not just one action. Behind it is an entire set of beliefs and values that help to perpetrate that condition. Your habitual compulsion is being driven by a massive set of subconscious beliefs that will take a really long time to cut out and can only be done if you really want it to. You have got to find the will to stand on your own. Everyone inside of them has that strength pillar. Sometimes, it's fallen apart, but it can be put back together. After you pass through withdrawal, you can then start to work on the fundamental problems we experience.
That's not to be disconcerting at all. I wouldn't tell you or anyone else here that all if I didn't think you could do it, Asher. You and I talked for a long time before you left, and I know you know what I'm talking about. I've learned a lot through my own process this time. Last time, I wasn't willing to absolutely remove every last bit of the negative sexual stuff from my mind. This time, I have. I can't bring myself to go look at porn or have nasty images, and I've been clean now for five and a half weeks, and hopefully for the rest of my life.
I've also learned the hard way that I'm not ready for a relationship, and solving my addiction problems with a relationship in some form, while it sounds good, is not a good idea. The problem comes with the fact that it takes over instead of the addiction. As a result, if things don't go right, you could relapse and masturbate again. I met someone I liked quite a bit, but found out that she's already in a relationship and it was demoralizing to me, but more importantly it brought back some of the negative cravings I thought I'd put away.
So, the process for getting through the rough stuff is simple: gather your strength, figure out what you want, and go get it. It will not be easy. But, if anything, I'm proof that it can be done. Good luck. Wish you the best.
Lancer
Welcome back, Lancer!
Thanks for your words of encouragement and insight. Congratulations on your progress. Well done!
It may be that the time will come when a relationship can offer solace instead of further discomfort. I hope so. You have a lot to give.
I too am glad you are here, Lancer.
Something else I am realizing is that I can not heal in isolation. Fellowship with other recovering addicted people (I don't like the word 'addict') is crucial to my recovery. I cannot do this alone. So thank you for your encouragement and for your inspiring example. It is a day-by-day struggle for me, with some days more challenging than others. But I really have to take it 'One Day at a Time' to be able to attempt it at all. I get so depressed sometimes. When the 'dim mind' hits, if I am alone at night and at home, it doesn't bode well...maybe at those times I should just run out my door and call a friend to spend the night at their house. But how will I explain why I suddenly wish to sleep on the floor of their living room?
But good to see you again, friend. Hope that you, as I, have learned much from your time in the desert.
You've got the right idea,
You've got the right idea, Asher. Isolation is part of the problem. In fact, it is one of the root causes and one of the items that needs addressed first. There is more than one way, though. For instance, I don't attend any recovery groups, but what I do attend is social events within my school, and I've also gained a social circle, something I've never had. So, for the first time, I have a group of people I know who actually care about me. Kind of interesting, really. If the support group can provide you that kind of long-term care, that is great. They will be able to help you out with whatever happens. You'll soon find you can carry that torch as well.
As for the person you want to ask out, my advice is spend some time simply talking about whatever. You'll find out as you are talking whether or not you two have enough together to do it. But in the end, you've got to find that courage! No one's going to give it to you. If you can find it, you can do it. But ultimately, the simple answer is you need to locate what you need inside of you. It is there, it's just hidden from view.
Glad to hear you're
Glad to hear you're progressing towards your truly liberated self steadily, Lancer. Yipee!
I'm wondering if you could be a bit more specific about what the belief system is behind porn addiction, and which new belief system you have replaced that with in your recovery?
Specific about the belief
Specific about the belief system... Well, Hotspring, I will tell you what I think is the addict's belief system. However, this is not perfect, not fully inclusive, and does not describe everyone perfectly. Also, this should not be used to look at someone and figure out if they are an addict or not.
The belief system of an addict has a lot of paradoxes. There's a strong want to be a part of something, but there is no drive to get out and do something about that. There is a mindset that if "you only could understand" you would like me. The point is not to hold everything close to the chest, but instead to open up to others about things that are going on. An addict doesn't want to do much, at least in my perspective, and is more likely to rely on the safe and tested rather than try new things. This is why relationships are so difficult. There is also a strong victim sense here, where an addict feels like a victim of society and has been let down, even when that's not necessarily true. As with just about every addict that has come through here, there's a strong want for a regular relationship, but there is no confidence to do just that.
The second important belief is a belief of inferiority. There is a strong belief of "I'm not good enough" and of "why would anyone want me?" The inferiority is one of the hardest things to get over, as well as the lack of confidence. Both take herculean efforts to get past.
But they can be overcome. It takes some time, and maybe this time it's easier because I've already been half way there, but the truth is it requires an elimination of all behaviors deemed inappropriate. It's not about making masturbation "good to do." It's about eliminating it as an option where otherwise it wouldn't happen. At first, it will be very hard because it will requre staying away from just about anything sexual. However, after the detoxing period, a gradual reintroduction can happen. However, pornography in any of its forms must be totally eliminated and replaced with either other people (the point of 12-step groups, which is right to attack this as part of the problem) or something comparable that doesn't make you as alone. There is more than one way to do this, though.
Lastly, there is the negative belief in sex. This is something I have not yet been able to take care of, but I know it exists. Usually since it has been so long and arduous, this exists and must be corrected in some way. I am not sure if I can do this one on my own or if I will require counseling, but we will see.
New belief system? The biggest one is in believing I don't need addictive masturbation or any form of stimulus to make me better. I've been relying more on others to help me out through some of my bigger issues, whereas before I would self-medicate. I no longer feel inferior and like a contributor. I also feel confident, and no longer have to tell people I'm confident. I simply show I am.
Oh, one last thing. It's not "porn addiction" as several people here call it. It is sex addiction, and a particularly nasty form of it. The addiction isn't to pornography. I think the others here would agree with that. The pornography is merely the means, the addictive substance is the orgasm, which the body gets pleased and medicated. The act is sex (albeit with one person), and the same kind of addiction can manifest itself in several ways, just as an addiction to alcohol and cocaine can happen, even though the form of the substance in these cases differs greatly.
Great post, Lancer
Thanks for your honesty and courage.
Oh, and there was one line I couldn't work out. Did you mean "It's not about making masturbation [NOT] good to do." It's about eliminating it as an option where otherwise it wouldn't happen."
That would make sense to me. It means you're not "forcing" it, right? Forcing will automatically lead to use of fantasy...if not this time, then the next...the search for "relief" being what it is.
I was interested to learn that compulsions took a big upward surge right around the time that most of us left our agrarian lifestyles and moved into cities, factories, boarding schools (where the habit of masturbation first was noticed...among lonely, displaced kids...what a surprise, eh?), and shallower ties to our neighbors (and a greater sense of "not belonging"). Here are a couple of paragraphs from my new book, which record the same insight I think you are talking about in that quotation from your post, above:
And this is happening as we lose our connections with each other...and with nature, as Hotspring wisely reminds us. As you found, there's a lot we can do to restore those vital connections...if we know to make it a goal.
Your post is very rich in other ways, too, Lancer. What's really thrilling to me is that it's proof that as one gets off of the roller coaster, one finds the clarity and insight to solve even the thorniest, most "insoluble" problems in one's life. And the solutions can then be shared. Thanks. I know it would have been so much easier just to benefit from your insights and *not* share them. Generosity is an important sign of health.
Thanks for the clarification about "sex addiction." Yes, you are right. It's a bummer, but orgasm is inherently addictive. That doesn't mean everyone goes on the same trip...but we all have the potential, just because of that reward circuitry, and the cycle of "recovery" that sexual satiation tends to kick in (which feels like intense horniness in many of us...resulting in habits that self-medicate).
You are one shiny man! I'm really proud of you.
I wish
it *did* work that way...so that cravings would disappear once someone makes a commitment to balance. I agree that it seems unfair that you have to *retrain* your brain.
I honestly believe there is a shortcut...but it calls for entering a relationship and benefiting from those bonding behaviors. This is particularly tough for those of you who have drifted into isolation by trying to fill that little "pair-bonding hole" (innate craving for a mate, which is common to most humans) with intoxication (by whatever means).
But at least look around. Make sure there isn't some woman in your orbit, with whom you could exchange energy to your mutual benefit. She may not have a porn addiction, but believe me, she, too, would perk up enormously from your loving energy. It wouldn't hurt to try it...just for the experiment. What about the women in your spiritual practice community?
Thanks but...
I am mid aged, very poor materially, have no steady job, and so although I'm not a bad lover the opportunity very rarely presents itself. By my age women don't get involved for love and adventure anymore (they used too), they are looking for a man who might be able to actually take care of them. Hence the attraction to guys with big bank balances and nice cars.
I do have some very good points even regarding my physique, but on the surface, in what people first see, I'm considered rather unusual looking. So not many women ever get to find out what those 'good points' are.
It's also my fault, though. Cos when I look back in time, I realize that of all the girls I have proactively asked out, about 50 % have said 'yes', which means that the main problem is that I'm just not trying anymore. Guess I'm scared of rejection.
But the PC is no substitute. And yes, Marnia, there is a girl I'm interested in, she even has similar interests...if I could just summon up the courage to 'have a go' and be prepared that if I get a 'no' the world will not come crashing down, then I just should look elsewhere. Sort of answered my own questions here.
*giggle*
Don't worry...Frank will advise you. He has received a *lot* of helpful(?) advice on that front lately
Here's the thing...it doesn't matter what prejudices the woman has at the start. Through generous contact (and clever use of those bonding behaviors...and your rock star creativity) you have the power to shift both her perspective and yours for the better - and create abundance for yourselves.
I know I bored you with my story before, but honestly...no one would have picked Gary out as a "good bet" for a mate, and he has turned out to be a wonderful mate...and yes, we have created abundance, not to mention ended his chronic depression and his long-term addiction. He, in turn, dug up all the science at this site, and patiently taught it to me. What a gift. And we have had fun doing it all!
However, he *was* willing to be consistent with how he uses his sexual energy. Not cause he doesn't like hot, orgasmic sex, but because the whole concept actually made sense to him when he looked back over his love life - or at least enough sense to give it an honest try. So don't hesitate to teach this goddess something new.
Oh Yes YEs ! Go for it
Oh Yes YEs ! Go for it Asher! You know. I feel best when I use this "sexual" energy to connect with people. Usually I don't feel sexual towards them (even if they are a beautiful woman) once I am engaged in a conversation. I like to connect with a lot of people. It just feels good. Somehow my programing allows me to do that when I'm "single". . . But, I am used to my partner making me wrong for connecting. She sexualises the connecting . And I then try to say that the sexual energy that I have stored up by not masturbating I.E. having got past the worst of the hangover is not motivating me to connect sexually. Or is it? Oh Dangle. So my challenge is to have a lover who is happy for me to treasure my sexual energy and to convert it into connecting energy so that we can be healthy and happy.
I have felt that down feeling because I can't find a lover now,today. It means I'm overdue for engaging in bonding behaviors. Some of them you can do with a total stranger on the sidewalk. And you do start to feel better.
This seems to be my theme tonight. I'd better listen to myself. and take a risk or two to connect tomorrow morning . Or I'll end up in the pits myself. anyway good luck!
Question
What advice would you give a guy in his twenties who is hooked on porn?
As you know, the emphasis here is generally on encouraging union with others, and on helping people see the effects of the sexual-satiation cycle, and the benefits of moving beyond it (greater clarity, more energy and focus and sociability).
But what's the best "maintenance" advice for someone who isn't in relationship yet? In my last book I threw out the possibility that people could just wait for a wet dream and see if they could figure out their body's "natural" rhythm that way.
On the other hand, thelongrun succeeded with his recovery by giving up masturbation altogether...and soon finding a sweetheart. This is consistent with early thinking on avoiding compulsion, the "don't force orgasm with self-stimulation or fantasy."
Obviously masturbation with fantasy is *asking* to get thrown back into the addictive cycle, because it's a learning reinforcement exercise that *trains* the brain to go back for more "relief" constantly. But is there some way to find a suitable "masturbation schedule"? Is that counter productive because it "forces" orgasm? Is it better to just let wet dreams to "have their way with you" while one is single? And trust that you'll soon be feeling confident and friendly enough to find a sweetheart?
What do you think? What would be the most helpful general advice?
Maybe it's not a problem that needs solving
I don't think there is any need for "maintenance orgasms", masturbation on a schedule, etc.
Thelongrun has gone a year without masturbation and hasn't reported any bad effects. A friend of mine went for two years without masturbating; that ended when he got blue balls from being in close quarters with a beautiful woman. Some members of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous go for years without masturbating.
Advising a recovering porn addict to masturbate once in a while is like advising someone who is trying to give up smoking to have a cigarette once in a while. It's just plain counterproductive; it can help re-establish the old habit.
On the other hand, one shouldn't get upset about slip-ups. Getting upset is apt to increase the "need" for comfort from watching more porn, masturbating and having another orgasm. Just learn from the slips - what triggered them? was the time spent worth it? was the brief pleasure worth it? how do you feel afterward? - and get back on the sobriety wagon.
Most of my suggestions for those who wish to give up porn are at Learn to ride a unicycle.
Marnia said: "Obviously masturbation with fantasy is *asking* to get thrown back into the addictive cycle, because it's a learning reinforcement exercise that *trains* the brain to go back for more "relief" constantly."
I say that you could drop the "with fantasy" phrase and the sentence would be just as true. I never fantasize when masturbating. (Sometimes I fantasize before masturbating.) I'd probably have a hard time trying to fantasize while masturbating, just as others might have a hard time masturbating without fantasizing! (What I do when masturbating is focus on my body feelings.)
I've had about half a dozen wet dreams in my whole life, so for me they were kind of interesting and enjoyable (and all of them happened after I got married - go figure!). Again, I don't see any "problem" associated with wet dreams. My "advice" would be, let them happen, don't worry about them. There's probably not much you can do to either cause or prevent them. (For those who want to try, see http://www.wetdreamforum.com/ . Some of the members of that forum are trying to give up or avoid masturbating, some of them for religious reasons.)
Many thanks
It's always nice to hear from the owners of the equipment.
I totally agree that slip ups should be treated solely as learning opportunities.
I also know that you, CF, treat your abstinence as "voluntary," for as long as it continues on any given "run." Somehow I think that attitude is important, too. You're not so much fighting yourself, as choosing to keep your hands on the reins...or release them and then rein things in again.
That would be the ideal mindset for everyone, it seems to me. But how best to help someone get there? At the beginning, for a lot of (former) porn users it *does* feel like a battle. That may be unavoidable for a while...and yet it seems important to transition to an "I do this because I choose to reap the benefits, not because I must" attitude. Any thoughts?
A question for those who have sobriety...
Did you use a 'Higher Power' either within yourself or 'outside' such as God(s) etc? Is it really true what they say in 12 step programs, that we need Higher Power's assistance to get out of the worst of the addiction?
I just discovered that I am resisting this notion. I still believe that I should be able to do this alone. Or even just with the support of other (human) beings. Though I am inclined to spiritual thoughts by nature, for some reason I can't see why it has to be God that removes the addiction. Is it not I who created it? Is it not I who makes the phone call to a fellow traveller, reads and writes blogs here? Is it not I who 'just says NO' to porn when my loins want it?
This issue is bringing up some stuff for me. The Nilhist in me believes in nothing, and is totally baffled by the complexity of the world. In that mindset, porn provides some relief from the monotony of meaninglessness. The Spiritualist in me, however, sees the inherent simplicity in life, the truth of being alive in this precious moment, to love and be of service. This 'self' can let go of compulsive orgasming.
I feel that the 12-step program is crucial mostly for providing me with the fellowship of other addicted pp, some of whom have achieved long-term sobriety and are living examples to the others. I have a problem, however, with a kind of creeping fundamentalism of sorts, where they believe that because that program has worked so well for so many pp in the past, that its tenets and philosophy have become 'gospel truth', the 'only' way to heal, like in religions where the scripture becomes more important than personally verafiable experience (i.e., fundamentalism).
Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I appreciate everyone's replies by the way, but for now got to rush off and do 1001 things.
Om Shanti friends. (Peace).
Not an easy question to
Not an easy question to answer, Asher. The answer is that you need two find something, if not a Higher Power, then something to motivate you through the very worst. It's tough. You've got to find some reason to hold on when you feel like giving in. For everyone, that is different. God is one way. Sheer will is another. To me, it was a mix of both. You need to find something that gets you through it.
As for the 12-step programs, I've never attended a meeting. Understand that for them, the program has worked. Do I think it is the only way? No. However, maybe it is worth trying their ideas for a bit? It's not like you've got anything to lose at this point. Give it a shot. The worst that happens is you end up where you started again. At that point, I'd just selectively pick what I listen to, but I found that the bleak attitude you have may also be a part of your addiction. A lot of addicts who had no sense of God entered a 12-step program and found it. Not advocating for it, but I don't think you've given it a fair shake before you start to throw pieces of it aside.
I'm an athiest
and orgasm-free for 84 days now, by the grace of... my own intention.
Rational Recovery, an alternative to 12-step programs
http://www.rational.org/html_public_area/course_structure.html
Seems like it could be adapted easily to kicking porn/masturbation/orgasm/sex/etc. addictions.
They criticize 12-step programs rather harshly. While their criticism makes some sense, I think we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In other words, there are some good ideas to be found in 12-step programs. And while there are some arguments against attending 12-step meetings, that doesn't mean that one should avoid any kind of social groups, or avoid making friends and seeking their advice on personal matters.
Last year I was going deeper
Last year I was going deeper into porn consiousness. I've never managed to get my old computer to run video clips. I'd had a long and occaisional history of using images to amp up the sexual heat when masturbating. I was looking at those still images of beautiful girls with inviting smiles. the thread of that was that I was looking for an image of a girl that I knew and loved when I was 7 . There was a super potent magnatism that drew us together. my family moved away a few months later and it came to a crashing halt. I remember feeling so much love. And the light around us was absolutely radient. It wasn't sexual at all. So I found a few images that were close. and a lot of others as well. I even tried to look up that girl to thank her and tell her how much that benchmark experience ment to me. Fourty years past. The trail was cold. There were hotter images creeping in. More directly sexual. Fully flushed with real arousal. With new ones I could come 3 times in a night. Yeah ,the coolidge thingo works. I guess I got into that when I was on my own. I knew that I was pretty hooked and that it was really affecting my quality of life.
Meanwhile the man who did a lot of fathering of me was dying. I traveled a long way to care for him and to help my mother with the transition. I left those images behind and the intense masturbation as well. I had been introduced to Peace between the sheets a month or so before I left. I didn't like the trend of becoming desensitised to a level of porn and wanting more intense images. So I left it behind when I jumped on the plane. I haven't gone back and don't intend to. I'll have a new life . I expect it to take some years before I can really look back and say . Well, that was then. If you get a chance to break a pattern that you can see yourself caught in the momentum of. Leap in and swim away. Soon it won't pull at you so strongly. I don't do 1 day at a time. I do, Now I am Here! Where ever I am. I have the power to choose and choose again. And I get the results of my actions without a bunch of crappy copout guilt. because that's a sure way to wallow in your own shit. And of course you'll smell like it if you do. I know I've tried it. I guess you could say that I didn't fight it. I just watched for an oppertune time to stop. When it would be easier to make a change that I wanted. You will get help alright. But for Gods sake, leave God out of it. It is better to leave some things outside of our understanding. aye?
For me one of the most important things is being able to speak about it freely and be heard without those revolting projective judgments that people seem to dish out so readily. I still feel really raw about that. And angry. So much waste. Isolation. ailenation. Speaking and listening gets us aware of were we are at and were we could be . Sharing visions of something beyond our experience can give us something to move towards. Communicating on this site has been a powerful ally for me. Because you other people do too. I am so very thankful for the holding of this space. Where I can belong. While I choose to.
Yes omulu guilt trips are indeed unhelpful!
But in my case the one with the big stick beating me up has usually been myself (one exception, a female friend who judged me rather harshly when I shared something about it with her. Never made that mistake again. Interestingly the ladies on this site are, by contrast, very supportive).
I am glad you spoke of 'inviting smiles' because it shows just how seriously addicted I have become. My heart beat just a little faster when I visualized that. It's even worse if I actually give in and log on. My heart starts to pound, I get a rush through my whole body and I feel like I've just taken a strong drug (only the pharmacy is in my brain, isn't it?). I hear that heroin feels a bit like that too...but just as heroin ultimately can destroy one's life (and is therefore 'not worth the rush') and should therefore be carefully avoided, for me, at this stage, so should orgasm. Yes I will admit it, I'm an 'orgasm junkie', sometimes complete with the associated malnutrition, self-neglect and dark rings under the eyes...
I appreciate your feedback. I'm making progress but I won't go into detail here it's all in my new blog. Got to go and put that increased heart rate to some productive use...hang out the washing and go for a walk! Peace bro.
Happy Halloween
One of the naughty goddesses who lurks here offered this photo as a possible cure for any addictions you gentlemen may be suffering from. Let us know if it works. *evil grin*
http://www.reuniting.info/images/LOLhappy.jpg