Back to square one

I wouldn't make any fixed judgments about my sexual self-control while using that!

In the Exchanges, intercourse begins with side-lying positions, and no, or very little movement. I don't think Superman himself could do what you're trying to do successfully. *giggle*

Sounds like fun, though!

I've found this approach quite difficult with a partner who is not on the same page.

Yes, sensitivity is increased, tho my guess would be that for a man, as you stabilize in your porn withdrawal and find a new center of strength, you might not be so easily tipped over.

However, it will be difficult to pull this off without your girlfriend also giving it a try. After all, the conventional orgasmic response for a woman is a drawing up, a pulling in of the male energy, which is perfect for procreative sex. What is her muscle tone like - is it hard or is it relaxed? In my experience, its absolutely crucial the woman know how to sense where her man is and be able to stop the pulling and contracting when that's necessary - ideally she would learn how to enjoy receiving you without any pulling at all. It can be extremely pleasurable from the woman's end to feel accepting without being manipulative. If she is able to reach a place of being present with arousal without having to steer it in any direction, an alignment in being able to hold power together is more likely, and a broader awareness of sensuality and ecstacy is accessed. When the original source of ecstacy is tapped into, sex toys seem superfluous. There's nothing to amp up when you're already basking in the ultimate.

Good luck, and don't beat yourself up. Your penis is just obeying the commands of the demanding yoni.

I don't know know anything about your relationship, so I'm wondering, have you talked to your girlfriend about karezza? Has she read the book? Is she aware of the suffering you endure due to the post-orgasmic hangover and does she herself connect the dots?

I feel that partners who are not at all interested in karezza just add to the trauma if they insist on having hot sex with someone who wants gentle lovemaking.

I hope she is willing to listen, understand and respect your wishes in this regard.

I might also be back on square one today, had A LOT of arousal in my sleep a few hours ago, almost orgasming twice but I think I managed not to. But I can feel that let down anyway.

I know it sucks but don't give up! We are here cheering you on! But really, try to explain to your girlfriend what hot sex does to you. If she resents your porn addiction I think she would be at least somewhat understanding. And if she knew about the science behind this she wouldn't ask you to or want you to use that silly ring.

Have you tried the bonding behaviors during withdrawal?

Big hugs your way

for the extra effort it takes to express yourselves so well in a second language. I'm impressed!

I don't know if this short article about Karezza would be helpful:

Karezza - J. William Lloyd

In successful Karezza the sex-organs become quiet, satisfied, demagnetized, as perfectly as by the orgasm, while the rest of the body of each partner glows with a wonderful vigor and conscious joy…tending to irradiate the whole being with romantic love; and always with an after-feeling of health, purity and well-being. We are most happy and good-humored as after a full meal.

Born in 1857, Lloyd was known as the "drugless physician." In addition to The Karezza Method, he authored various unpublished writings on the subject of ideal relationships. He died in 1940.

As a doctor, Lloyd addressed the question of semen buildup:

That the semen can be and is absorbed [if not ejaculated] I think is satisfactorily proven by the numerous instances where men have been sterilized by accident, disease, or intentional operation in such a way that the testicles are left unharmed, but the semen is cut-off from its natural outlet. After being once secreted only two things are possible - either it must be absorbed or it will form a swelling. It does NOT form a swelling; therefore it certainly is absorbed.

He questioned the trend toward viewing orgasm as purely beneficial:

A school of physicians has arisen which claims the orgasm as a most important function, beneficial, and justifiably attained by artificial means if natural ones are not available, including with apparent approval, masturbation, and the use of mechanical and chemical contraceptives [to make casual sex possible].

[This teaching leaves] the reader of little experience with the idea that orgasms are practically harmless, that excess is unlikely, and that if no immediate bad results are noticed the practice may be indulged in to about the limit of desire.

[Yet] that orgasms are weakening is easily proven. … To get facts about the orgasm go to the stockbreeder. Business has no sentiment or prejudice. Every stockbreeder will tell you that to permit a bull or stallion to serve too many or too often is to devitalize him.

Lloyd found that karezza offered health benefits. For example, he said he knew it to “act like magic in painful menstruation,” and as a remarkable nerve sedative, even curing nervous headache. He also found it one of the best

agencies for the benefit and cure of ordinary sexual weaknesses and ailments, including urethritis [urinary tract infection] and prostatitis [enlargement of the prostate gland].

However, he was

willing to concede that where the intercourse is of such a nature as to cause a congestion that is not sublimated, or where sexual congestion occurs and sublimation and [karezza] are not available, the orgasm may have a necessary place. …

In Lloyd’s day, some people objected to karezza on the grounds that it would encourage excessive indulgence in sexual relations. He responded that,

those who do not use Karezza are vastly more liable to excess, and this usually from too frequent and intense orgasms, too frequent pregnancies, or too coarse, cynical and invasive an attitude. Where there is merely a physical itch or craving gratified, with no mutual tenderness or kindness, or perhaps actually against the desire or protest of one party, sex is always excessive.

Lloyd offers many practical, inspiring tips for successful karezza, including the need for lovers to give in order to benefit from controlled intercourse. “Try to feel yourself a magnetic battery,” he advises.

As you acquire the habit of giving your sexual electricity out in blessing to your partner from your sex-organs, hands, lips, skin, eyes and voice, you will acquire the power to satisfy yourself and her without an orgasm. Soon you will not even think of self-control, because you will have no desire for the orgasm, nor will she.

Karezza, says Lloyd, is the greatest beautifier because it increases and makes enduring heart love. He advises that to increase sexual control, “keep the spiritual on top, dominant - loving is the first thing, and at-one-ment…of your souls, your real end.” “Sex is very close to soul. … [It only satisfies] when it unites souls, not merely copulates bodies for a thrill.”

In a chapter called, “Does the Woman Need the Orgasm?” he even had the courage to explain why she doesn’t. (Brave man.)

The ordinary husband-and-wife embrace is purely sexual, and based on his demand to get rid of a surplus. There is little or no thought to make it esthetic or affectional - it is merely animal. If the husband stays long enough and excites his wife sufficiently to have an orgasm, then she has a gushing out of fluids that relieves the congestion brought on by his approaches, and on the physical plane, at least, she is relieved and satisfied, the same as he. …

But what happens in Karezza? Here, if she really loves her partner, her whole nature is attuned to his, in delicious docility, expectation and rapport. Every nerve vibrates in sweet gratitude and response to his touch. There is a marvelously sweet blending and reconciliation of the voluptuous and the spiritual that satisfies both her body and her soul at once… [When] his magnetism is flowing through her every fiber, uniting them as one, such a heavenly ecstasy of peace, love and happiness possesses her that she "melts" (there is no other word for it), her whole being wishes to join with his, and though there is no orgasm in the ordinary definition of the word yet her fluids gush out in an exactly similar manner and all possible congestion is utterly and completely relieved.

A mystic at heart, Lloyd surmised that lovers’ experiences of oneness represent the re-creation of the divine androgyne at the heart of so many esoteric thought systems. He writes that the full magnetic rapport of Karezza occurs when

two souls and bodies seem as one, floating on some divine stream in Paradise….This is the real ideal and end of Karezza. You will finally enter into such unity that in your fullest embrace you can hardly tell yourselves apart and can read each other’s thoughts. You will feel a physical unity as if her blood flowed in your veins, her flesh were yours. For this is the Soul-Blending Embrace.

are so important...but hard to hang onto in our current culture, which kind of tries to convince us that we *couldn't* have been feeling so good without orgasm.

I have put together a post for parents wondering what to tell kids. I apologize that it's kind of disorganized for the moment. http://www.reuniting.info/node/1724

You would help a lot by adding your experiences as comments. Why do you think you have a problem? Why do you want to quit now? Tell us when you started using porn, and what you would want to tell a kid old now. How would you go about it if you were a parent?

If you don't want to post under your user name, send me a private message by clicking on my name. I'll post your replies without any name.

Thanks. This is a good way to put your experience to good use.

where people discuss having severe "hangovers" after orgasm (POIS - Post-orgasmic Illness Syndrome):

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg204675#m...

Fenugreek reduced my POIS symptoms 90% after ejaculation. I used fenugreek two days prior to testing and ejaculated three times in a row.

Observations - The symptoms are near null but with a cost. What cost? Read carefully, the cost was a less intense orgasm...I mean *way* less intense. The sum of all three orgasms wasn't even equal to an 'O' before the fenugreek.

Conclusion - Maybe people who experience POIS have more intense orgasms. I was addicted to masterbating 10 years ago because it felt so damn good. And now it feels just as good (but I chose not to be addicted by reducing 'O's). Maybe our orgasms are more intense because our bodies hormones flood during orgasms or tweak out somehow. On fenugreek my orgasms were good but not insane like usual. Fenugreek reduced the orgasm intensity and reduced my symptoms.

So does orgasm intensity = POIS symptoms intensity? If so, sex could be compared to drugs or alcohol - the more intense the rush/high/orgasm, the better you feel but a worst recovery/low.

Does anyone else have this experience?

Might this information be useful to anyone trying to cut back on porn use? I don't know....

Glad you have your priorities straight.

Actually, there's a good chance that frequent masturbation itself is linked with depression. At least my husband's chronic depression (he once took SSRIs too) went away when we got together and began practicing karezza.

We think that the links between orgasm and depression in his case were fewer dopamine crashes (which occur after orgasm) and more oxytocin (great cuddling with me ). Research shows that dopamine levels are closely linked to mood, and that oxytocin is a natural anti-depressant and anti-anxiety substance.

does increase dopamine (not yet sure about the receptor desensitizaion, although research may someday prove that's right too). So your instincts are good.

My husband says ritalin can be addictive. It binds to the dopamine receptors most associated with reward (D2 receptors).

I bet no pharmaceutical companies are pointing out this rather obvious risk.

It is apparent to us that you are right about the motives (and methods) of big drug companies.

I would add that I believe someday humanity will look back at this period of medicine (the casual writing of prescriptions for psychotropic drugs) as one of the most reckless and destructive in history. It will make the use of leeches look really sensible by comparison. (It's actually being shown that leeches inject an anti-inflammatory that does indeed help with many conditions!)