Healing the gap at Reuniting

I think, in general, pleasure-driven sexuality puts a barrier between men and women. Women really do become objectified as pleasure-objects, we see women the way an addict would look at a woman if she had money or drugs in her pants. The after-orgasm hormones also seem to increase hostility and distrust between the sexes, and add to that the guilt for past actions (or present intentions).

If this was a male-only forum, the barrier would still be intact, and there would be a lack of (authenticity?) in a closed circle of men talking about relating to women properly. I think having Marnia head the site as well as having input from female posters is a large part of the "good note" that the site hits for me. It's very fitting that the "cure" is being offered from the other side of the divide.

I would say that there's not much you have to do, just naturally contribute, when you see an opening, when you have something to offer. I think that your presence would be the main good, and whatever insight you have to offer would be the icing on the cake.

From my point of view addiction is a universal and shared problem for the whole human race. Whatever expression that we have chosen is just one
flavor of many. You can abuse almost everything like food, sugar, sports, books, movies, social events, computer games and so on.

The addiction we have chosen is about what was the best protection that we could find at the moment. For me it was porn and masturbation that gave me the comfort that i searched. Worked very well, but to a price. Porn is categorized as fantasy sex, an extension of fantasies, a tool to alter feelings. To make me feel better, short term. The same goes for all the other expressions of addiction. I think most people can recognize some minor or major addictive behaviors. If you also put it into the context of Dopamine rush and so on then it becomes clear that this is truly a universal problem.

In SLAA there is many that have addiction to romance, the fantasies of the romantic and perfect relation. In real life they can never hold on to a partner (partly because of the Dopamine, perhaps ) and they get stuck in theses fantasies instead of the image driven fantasies that porn addicts use. Naturally there is combination of many addictions as well. It seems like this Love/romance addiction is more compelling to woman, by the numbers of woman in the meetings. In the background however, sex, porn and Love addicts have is the same problem: The lack of contact with themselves. I guess the same goes for all the other addictions as well....

For me it is great to hear from anyone that is developing one's spirit and well being, no matter what background they have. I is also very helpful just to know that i am not alone in this, i am not a monster. That people like yourself, without the addiction, cares.

Sorry for a long and perhaps out of the point post :?

Thanks

/ Soulsearching

I also think having women here really helps a lot. Even though I'm not a porn addict, I am a product of modern society, which, unfortunately, sometimes messes up a man's view of women. Women are often objectified in the media. Other boys in school objectify them and make getting in their pants the most worthwhile goal, while getting to know them is for sissies. I was not immune to this influence.

Then, on the other hand, I somehow got the idea that women were unapproachable goddesses, that all of them were perfect feminists who had no lust, only love, etc.

When everyone, males and females together, talks openly about sex, it helps to break both of these attitudes because I realize that women are human beings dealing with similar issues I am.

As for what women can do to help porn addicts, my input would be to just show your true human self. Inner beauty is far more alluring than the outer form, but they (we) might have trouble seeing it from being brainwashed by the repeated message that a woman is only as good as her physical body's attractiveness.

Also, what helps is just to receive encouragement from others, to feel part of a group. For men, encouragement from other men is fine and all, but we sit up and take notice when a woman says, "Good job!" or "Keep going!" or, after a relapse, "I'm sorry." It may be a patriarchal society, but women still have amazing power. If a woman walks into a room full of 100 men, all heads turn, and she has 100% attention. Now, imagine what happens when a man walks into a room full of 100 women. .gif" alt="smiley"/>.

Finally, I think the women here could have a lot to gain from the interaction as well. The fear is probably that the men will be... well, like men... or what passes for normal man-ness in today's society. Since most men here don't fit that stereotype, it can restore trust, and if one of us turns dehumanizing, that might still be a good thing because the woman can work on how to react from a place of empowerment. Not bitchy, for that's still weakness, but with true feminine strength. What that is, is another topic, and one I'm no expert on, but from what I've learned from David Deida about masculinity and femininity, one way to react would be to show the pain it causes, not by direct anger, but with pain. Righteous anger just makes a person defensive (especially when it's a woman yelling at a man), but pain (if not manipulative) re-humanizes her, tugs on his conscience. Easier said than done, and probably much harder online than in real life, but I still thought it worth sharing. Again, I don't know much about this stuff yet, but regardless, my thought was that this forum might be a good way for women to get experience dealing with what they fear in men and work toward healing those wounds.

not sure what to do. We now have an extra moderator, so if someone gets ugly, there are two of us, in somewhat different time zones to handle it. But it seems to me that the group here seems to handle things well without any official help.

I think there's a lot of value in not "walking around on egg shells" all the time. I like people to be able to speak their minds. As I said to one person privately..."it's like doing a jigsaw puzzle. If we want to get to the bottom of things, or at least deepen our understanding, we have to put our pieces on the table and move 'em around." That means sticking up for what we believe, but staying open to new pieces that fit with ours.

I'm open to suggestions if someone thinks something is needed.

Great Discussion - and Discordia, its so nice to have you active in the forum again.

I myself just had a nice four day break from all internet while attending a craniosacral therapy training course (more on that to come - there is A LOT of crossover between the teachings there and what Marnia is proposing on this site).

My experience of being one of only a very few women posting on this site for more than a year has overall been very rewarding, if not at times difficult. I came to the site wanting to learn more about sacred sex that actual couples were experiencing. Instead, I learned: just how huge this problem of porn is (it was not really on the radar before). I don't think I would have been able to be as compassionate with the men in my life who are addicted to porn if it had not been for gaining some real insight here. Also, as Soulsearching said (I think it was him): "Addiction is a universal and shared problem for the whole human race." I have seen paralells between myself and porn addicts in regards to addictive tendencies in general. I have been able to see that liberation from any sort of enslavement is a shared problem for the whole human race; our very survival may depend on overcoming it, especially since we are living in a time of great wealth as far as access to consumption of addictive substances or behaviors goes, and since this excessive consumption comes at the cost of depleting precious resources elsewhere on the planet or in our lives.

I can also say that while I have often felt drained, saddened, and overwhelmed at how the issue of porn dominates this site (and therefore our culture), I do realize that again - porn is a problem that affects women very much, it affects modes of behavior between men and women and it affects how women feel they need to be to be attractive to men. So, I have a responsibility as a woman to enter into a dialogue on this topic, and to represent women who are not willling to have porn become the only reference point for how we define and express ourselves as women. I also see that this porn addiction is really a distorted expression of a very healthy desire in men to know the divine feminine. Unfortunately, porn focuses on the elements of femininity most accessable to male understanding and appreciation (the physical), and so the real juice that women have to offer gets ignored or buried.

I don't agree that a typically agressive or insensitive man in the forum would be the ideal opportunity for a woman to speak up and assert herself. On the contrary, I think that it is the obvious intelligence and sensitivity of many of you men here who are also porn addicts that is more challenging to us, because it is much harder to put you in a box. A typically agressive or mysogynistic male isn't rewarding or liberating to stand up to, because the premise of his power is a hoax in the first place; I think that the liberation comes from any dialogue between men and women that expands rather than contracts an awareness of the possibilities of what it means to grow as an individual man or woman and as men and women together. So far as there is a willingness to grow and a true belief in positive potential in human beings, I'm game for a discussion, even if it does feel sad to see reality at times. Because we really must come together as men and women for this world to function at all, and we can't do that if we're not talking.

I would like to add that women already spend so much time caring for and supporting men, with little aknowledgement or reciprocity. If you men want more women to join in this discussion and support you, you will need to reach out and begin to relate to women in a way that is broader than porn as a frame of reference. After all, that's not our frame of reference (for most of us). We've been willing to listen to and read your cries of help, and bring our hearts and minds into your world. Now, as so many of you become empowered, I'd encourage you to step outside of your world and find a new reference point: one that is based on nurturing real women, and not as a means to over come addiction or feel better - rather, as a human gesture of goodwill.

Here's what you can do in support of us women that would make me very happy:

- Speak openly and frankly with as many men as you know about what you've discovered to be the dangers of porn addiction and actively encourage men you know who use porn to stop using it.
- Admit that your desire to revere the female form is a healthy impulse and be creative in finding ways to do that
- If you feel any remorse for having contributed to unhealthy male-female dynamics through porn use, apologize to a real woman face to face and consider yourself representing and speaking for all men to all women when you say it. Ask the woman to witness and accept your apology. I don't say this just because women need to hear it, but because it may feel clearing for you to say it.
- the greatest gift would be for you to realize your true potential and power as men and redefine in each moment how easy it is to embody positive masculinity through use of your innate support, strength, focus, intelligence, discernment - and above all, human consideration.

Discordia,

I agree with hotspring - it is good to see you sharing again here on the site. And as for hotspring, as always, you have said so much, I shall enjoy reading your post again and again until I grasp the profound depth of all that you have shared.

Short answer - a man's porn addiction is none of your business and no reply is necessary. I share hotspring's vision for changing the focus of Reuniting back to sacred sex, as dealing with sex addiction is draining and destructive.

Each man with addiction, at some point in time in his life, has to MAN UP and stop being a pussy boy, hiding in the secret place with his computer and clutching his dick with a deep, desperate need to feel like a man. It does not work and that is why it is so addictive.

One porn orgasm is too many, one million are not enough.

The disconnect is a generation of men that are totally out of touch with divine feminine and so, we connect with the the equally sick women of porn to do our destructive dance. I WAS one of those men and I now purpose to never manifest this ever again, God help me!

I am not trying to throw men under the bus here, just because I just jumped off at the last minute. A lot of my sickness here was manifest by interactions here that do not demonstrate rigorous honesty - some of it was intentional, some of it was unconscious. In those moments, I was reverted back to my "little boy" state and I reached out to the women of Reuniting pleading, "love me mommy, please love me."

No self respecting goddess should heed such a plea. You are right hotspring, it is draining, depleting unless you are really advanced in your consciousness and able to give out. Marnia is one example - thank God that she was able to find balance in Gary.

Had I succeeded in connecting with a loving goddess here to help me heal, I would have destroyed her. Mind you, that is not my intention. It never was. I was that sick in my addiction - it is cunning baffling and powerful.

This is my amend - I cannot speak for any other man on this site - they will have to search themselves and speak their truth.

I have been free from porn for some time. I have taken steps to release myself from the karmic connections of women in my life. I speak daily with my divine feminine and focus daily on that deep love connection that is part of learning to love myself. I am actively seeking out other healthy men that are addiction free and I am learning to bond and join the tribe where I belong.

It took me 2 1/2 years in "recovery" to see that I was not being honest with myself in my approach to recovery. Blogging on a web site, any web site, about my porn addiction can be futile if that is my only resource, as it can be so easy to avoid rigorous honesty.

We all do our best to encourage each other and I embrace the community energy we have here but....it is only a start to reveal the tip of the iceberg.

I was out in the desert all alone this week for a reason......And for that reason, my dear goddess Discordia, everything has changed.

You are doing a great job of blooming into the incredible goddess that you are. That is your karma in life and it is up to each of us as men to treat you with respect, roll up our sleeves and cleanse this insidious disease.

It can be done - my journey of claiming my manhood cannot come from a goddess - it must come from another man who is already fully man.

Richard

Jesus speaks of a cup in which you drink and never again will thirst.
That cup is being offered here, at reuniting, everyday. inscribed on its brim is a song, beckoning all men and women to self-empowerment, to embrace their divinity, seek ultimate harmony, and live a life that is full and free.

richard said it quite poetically,

Quote:

Each man with addiction, at some point in time in his life, has to MAN UP and stop being a pussy boy, hiding in the secret place with his computer and clutching his dick with a deep, desperate need to feel like a man. It does not work and that is why it is so addictive.

Men. Drink the cup. Women. Drink the cup.
then you die to yourself.
its not a jim jones thing. honest.
lose your life to find it.
give up the empty search for instant gratification, and love on real people. begin to love yourselves!

or continue to drink the cup of dirt being offered through pornography. Its gritty and unsatisfying. demeaning and corrosive.
but something tells me that if you're here, you've already discovered that. so own it.

EDIT: I am encouraged by those who share exciting discoveries on their journeys. While I too would love to see more focus on sacred sexuality, I think the victories of overcoming addiction, and the excitement of those who truly get it are reason enough to encourage those people to continue to blog here. This place has been so important to me on my own healing journey, and its exciting to hear of others, too.

---hayduke
the light of my eyes is a pearl,
equally emptied to equally shine;
and all or what little joy in the world
seemed suddenly simple, and endlessly mine.
(mewithoutyou)

I kinda liked that phrase myself and hope we didn't lose half the lady population with such coarse (yet true) vulgarity. I was not suggesting in any way that men stop sharing their journey of recovery here. I was suggesting to Discordia what I believe is her highest and best approach in responding to the men she encounters here, including me!

If you think about it, and I will spare everyone some more graphic details, sexual addiction is some really yucky stuff and so powerful in the destruction it causes to the divine feminine that is manifested in the goddesses that hang out here. Oh by the way - HELLO MEN - it is very destructive to our divine masculine also and diverts us, sometimes endlessly away from our true path. If I clean up my own side of the road, the rest flows perfectly, effortlessly.

I believe that I can claim as much male blogging here as anyone over the last year so I embrace this community fully. Finally, at last, what I hope I can manifest is something of more spiritual substance beyond how many days it has been since the last time I could not keep my hand off my crotch or what monkey business I cooked up to work my way between the legs of some beautiful angel.

I began a recovery journal last week for the first time. It is powerful writing tool that is intended for me only and is shared with one other person in life, my sponsor, and of course, everything I write is, by definition, shared with the divine. Where I get tripped up in my recovery is when my writing here is searching for approval, not healing, and the first clue is when I return here again and again, looking for how many responses I get, especially if I can connect with a goddess!

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It occurs to me that if I keep this gory part of my private business to myself and focus on the spiritual lessons learned along the way, it will be better for women and men here alike. And the ladies with their silence, by not responding, can respectfully help us to clean up our mess and avoid awkward responses that draw them into our karmic mirror.

Fortunately for everyone here at Reuniting, I don't make the rules here - Marnia does - and what a blessing that is, along with the blogging anarchy that keeps me coming back for more whenever I can. Ultimately, everyone here can and does respond to the best of our ability and we are all better for the experience!

I do hope to keep writing of my experience, strength and hope with whatever clear intent I can muster. Otherwise, all are invited to take what you need and leave the rest.

Richard

I have this feeling that somehow we're all rounding another corner together on the track. It's really uplifting and I'm grateful to you all.

I don't know if any of you have been to a Quaker meeting, but the theory is that if a group gathers together with the goal of "listening," then Spirit speaks through whoever feels called upon. It IS a kind of "anarchy," but at a deeper level it isn't. This forum often feels like that. What needs to get said, *does* get said...by someone...in its own time.

I had no clear idea why you porn folk needed to be here, but it became clear to most of us that you did. Looking back, the gifts you have brought are too many to be counted. You've helped us see others with more compassion. You've helped us realize that if oneness is part of The Goal, then no one should be left locked outside, looking in the windows, regardless of past choices. I also think you've helped me write a chapter for the new book that will be really supportive for anyone who got caught on the "Road to Excess" (its title).

You've also helped us see ourselves in you. I certainly could see the parallels between my past relationship chaos and porn addiction. (As I've said before, the common problem was "keeping our foot down on the orgasm accelerator too hard." Even though I wasn't using porn to do it.) You've helped Hotspring stop painting her face. And Discordia, who faced one of the biggest challenges here, is turning into an an unstoppable powerhouse. Maybe we could have done these things without you...but I don't know how.

G8, you're right in your observations about many women. The flip side of men entranced by fertile young bodies, is women entranced by resources and status. These programs serve our genes - very well - because they're all about offspring and offspring "fitness." It is therefore very easy for both genders to head for this default programming...especially under the stress of feeling unsupported or lonely. And I daresay few women in porn movies (or otherwise digging for gold) feel well supported by caring, dependable men. They may not even know such creatures exist.

What protects best against falling into our default programming? Actually, I don't think it's "sucking up and being manly," although that's very brave of you, and I admire the courage all of you have shown...especially *after* relapses, when it takes even more strength to start rowing again.

As you all know by now, I think the exchange of non-goal-oriented affection, or even stillness, with and without intercourse, is some of the most powerful medicine we have. That requires a partner.

The next best option is the unconditional exchanges of support we often see here. And to think...we don't even know, see or physically touch each other...yet, at least.

*Knowing* the opposite sex really, really wants you well and happy is powerful medicine, even when it's dispensed in cyber space.

In this regard, I have had some amazing men in my life. Some were sweethearts, but some were male mentors with crystal clear boundaries, who did what they could to encourage me and help me shine. Two bosses, a great uncle, and one professor particularly come to mind. (There have been some equally wonderful women in my life. My maternal grandmother, for example, supported the family AND loved to cook, and always adored my grandfather even though he morphed into a simple gardener after he lost his third job during the depression. Personally, I think she was taking a bit too much starch out of him between the sheets. Even so, their relationship was a lot more balanced than it looked on the surface. She relied a lot on his steady, kindly presence and integrity.)

Without this kind of support from the opposite sex, it's easy for all of us to lose sight of what we can really do best for each other, and conclude that we'd better head for, or hoard, our material plane thrills or wealth. Or assume that these thrills/gifts are the way to lure a mate to use for our *own* purposes...further decaying the potential trust between the sexes.

This departure from the knowledge of what the sexes really have to offer each other is happening more and more, as each generation drifts further from those bonding behaviors, and women have less and less time for nurturing the men/kids in their lives. I think the hot pursuit of sexual gratification...which seemed like such a great idea...to ALL of us high libido folk...is speeding up this process. It actually shifts our vision of each other, *because* it leaves us feeling drained. When you're low on dopamine (feeling depleted), the opposite sex inevitably looks threatening and greedy. Nasty trick, eh?

Today a man at Ecstatic Dance (yes, I do actually have a life *chuckle*) thanked me for my newsletters and said that this other approach to sex hits people right where two great problems lie: sexual addiction and fear of intimacy. And that is why it takes time to transition. I agreed, of course.

Afterward, I was thinking about what he said, and I realized that those two problems are *closely* connected, and either one contributes to the other. You guys are seeing that sex addiction can make you a bit scary, which makes us fearful of greater intimacy. And Hotspring has done a great job of telling you what we need to take our fences down in a healthy way.

But we women owe YOU guys an apology, too. Our fear of reaching out in those same small ways (respect, smiles, admiration, graciousness, and, in our case, especially soothing nurturing) helps perpetuate sexual addiction. As Gary says, "our reward circuitry is there to urge us to seek comfort, and when it doesn't find what it is designed to find: satisfying relationships...it finds a substitute that offers short-term comfort, whatever the long-term costs - in terms of greater isolation, addiction, etc." As some of you have heard me say, he has often said he wouldn't have found the strength to give up masturbation without a sweetheart. Now, maybe *something* else would have motivated him to try abstaining more, but his words show how most of us think, I suspect.

I'm not trying to take anyone's responsibility for his own choices and actions away. I know addicts (and all of us) need to make those choices and take responsibility. I'm just suggesting that when we women stop chasing orgasms and breeding resources and genes (G, we ALSO have more presence and courage, and can more easily make these important gifts to the men who cross our paths. (Courtly Companion anyone? )

These "little" gifts can make a subtle, but mighty, difference in mens' lives. I think that above all, this forum has been an experiment in what these little gifts can do. And I have been amazed at some of the inspiring, tear-jerking growth that we've had the pleasure of sharing in. It's like watching flowers bloom.

I sometimes think about the roles of yin and yang. And how hard Spirit had to bash me over the head to find my "yin" qualities again, and use them. It somehow knew this rediscovery was vital to my future happiness. I remember what a shock it was when I felt like I "got it," that an ideal role for me was to make myself into a "safe harbor" for the men in my life. Me? I was so good at plowing through brick walls against all odds. Why should I try to learn such an unfamiliar skill? Didn't the Divine have any walls It needed razed???

But every bit of progress in the direction of learning to be more nurturing (while also asking the men in my life to experiment with using their sexual energy more generously and less instinctively) led to unexpected progress toward a long-cherished goal.

That goal was simply to be a healing force on the planet, however small. I was thinking in terms of learning "Therapeutic Touch," or something more obvious like that. I was NOT thinking in terms of a "safe harbor" on a website about the neurochemistry of mating and bonding.

And yet...somehow just creating this forum space (thanks, Janitor!), with that wish ("let this be a safe harbor") has led to some astonishing things. And attracted some amazing gods and goddesses. Maybe "separation" really IS the obstacle to be overcome, as one of my spiritual books insists. Maybe as we heal this sorry alienation between the genders by learning the true value of these simple gifts (and greater intimacy in the same vein), it really *will* make it easier to align with the Divine. Certainly, that seems to be happening in small ways already.

Whatever the case, it's fun to see the new scenery as we round the bend. And fun to know that it wouldn't be happening without all of us somehow contributing our input, doubts, fears and breakthroughs and now this new Vision of strong, healing people ready for the next phase...whatever that may turn out to be. I hope I can step up to the new vibration.

End of ramble.

is this site. All of you writing here: Discordia, Hotspring, Richard, G8, Heyduke and Marnia are giving me pure wisdom with your words.

Wherever we come from, wherever the starting point was.We started with discomfort, pain, loneliness, fear, grief. We needed something else, we wanted something we did not have. We started to search and to change. Some of us met at this site, some in other communities, we learned and we grew. We could become what we first could not even imagine.

Some can not set free yet, some are already flying. It is very hard for the one that can not fly to see the world the same way as the one with wings. Still the earthbound and the flyer could both benefit from each other. Eventually we can all meet in the air.

Thanks all. Wherever you come from, wherever you want to go. Wherever you are today.

From habit to harmony (sorry Marnia could not resist to steal it)

/ Soulsearching

"blinding flash of the obvious" and this thread has great perspective from everyone with lots of BFO's that I receive, thanks!

A BFO that occurred to me this morning is just this - my attraction to Reuniting is as a community where I can work out my "stuff" - be it porn, masturbation, relationships, spirituality, etc. - with the loving support of a gracious community of men and women on a like minded spiritual path.

You are right Marnia, we are all, in our own way, making progress! Wow!

That's it! Reuniting is the on line equivalent of the SLAA meetings I do FACE TO FACE, where I meet with men and women together in a safe, spiritual place where we practice the rigorous honesty we find here. The best part - getting smiles and hugs - the very bonding behaviors we talk about here.

SLAA chat on line is limited in how you can express things there and they discourage male/female interactions because people get hit on. Here, we have deep, thoughtful "verbal intercourse" on line that is the best start towards the sexual intimacy we intend to manifest when the right connection is found face to face.

Richard

Well, since I was the guy who suggested women stand up for themselves here, let me explain a little more about what I meant. We want to heal the gap, that is help women let go of their fear, whatever it is that's holding them back from posting more and thereby partaking of the sense of community and support the site offers.

I thought about what they might be afraid of, and I think the answer is pretty obvious. The fear is of being treated with disrespect in some form. Possibly hit on, but maybe just the idea that a lot of men here were porn users gives the impression of something scary.

My idea was that it'd be a good thing to not let fear stop you, to face it. IF something happens, then deal with it. I agree it'd be useless to do that on mySpace or some seedy bar, but this is a place of healing. Unlike those other places, most likely you'd get support here, and that's healing. To have a voice, and to have that voice heard. To see that it does turn around, that it might actually happen much less than you fear.

More importantly, however, it's to just open and be vulnerable that way. Most likely, the responses will be supportive, even if coming from ex porn users. That would be healing too.

I don't know how the part of the site dedicated to porn addiction came into being, since I just got here, but I suspect it came just from addicts coming and posting, talking about their journey. If that's the case, I think people with other journeys, if they started posting about them, would create a similar thing. Facing the fear is the first step.

This goes for everyone, not just the gap Discordia is talking about. I'm into the spiritual side and the sexual alchemy side (hence my handle, Tantra11, since Tantra encompasses both... the 11 is just a bit of numerology tacked on for fun ). I'm also single for the time being, and while the site encourages bonding with a partner, it also supports my current (soon to be ending, I hope) journey of celibacy if I open up about it.

So, Hotspring, keep those posts of yours coming about things like dreams or advanced physics. (Speaking of dreams, did you see my first blog entry?) I wanted to respond to both these topics, but it didn't seem like I knew enough about the subject to converse fluently. That's MY fear at work.

Which leads me back to the gap between porn users and the silent women. Is there something we men can do to make things more supportive for you to feel safe?

I doubt that women aren't posting because they don't feel safe. Women really aren't as fragile as you think - more likely they're just pissed off and fed up.

I would guess women aren't posting because

1) porn use has already done so much damage to their sense of men and themselves, why should they spend their free time trying to help people who have caved in to unhealthy patterns that reinforce negative attitudes towards women? Seems things should be the other way around - the porn users reaching out to the women, not vice versa.

2) Since most women are not addicted to porn, they may not be able to relate and probably have more interesting things to do with their time, and

3) after all, you did this to yourselves. If women had been complicit in getting you hooked, there might be a larger sense of responsibility there, and

4) It's just downright depressing to see how easily controlled men are.

I don't claim these reasons are good ones, but they are all things I've felt at various times reading porn addicts posts here. I'm glad I've largely overcome them. If the problem of porn addiction weren't so widespread, I'd probably have no interest in the topic. But because porn addiction has become something I have to reckon with not just on this site, but as a part of being a single woman in a modern, computer-based society in which the majority of available men seem to have an affinity for porn, I just can't ignore the problem. I'm very interested in societal trends and feel some responsibilty towards affecting them for the best possible future humans can conceive of. I'm just not willing to settle for this, ignore it, or do the only other thing possible - get into watching porn or trying to act like a porn star in bed just so as to relate to modern men. The other option besides settling, ignoring, or playacting is to do what Marnia does - engage, be frank, and accept that the problem can only be overcome through cooperation of the sexes.

Someone Up There knows that it takes a serious challenge like this to get the sexes to team up again...this time on a healthier footing. I think the compassionate participation of women (friends and mates) can make this addiction a lot easier to overcome.

And what choice do we have? The idea that we can heal the planet with so many men deeply entranced by hypnotic two-dimensional images is wishful thinking. We heal together, or we fall deeper into the limbo that is produced when large percentages of humans are under alien control. (And, there's something about helping another awaken from a nightmare that shows you where you're still entranced yourself.)

To borrow from the un-PC "Sleeping Beauty" myth, I don't think Prince Charming would have lived happily ever after if he had decided not to thrash his way through the thorns to awaken Briar Rose. So, Ladies, let's put on our all-weather gear and and pull out our gardening tools. Based on my experience with Gary, there can be some splendid souls lurking behind the thorns of addiction. A recovered addict has a combination of humility, compassion, honesty and insight that is tough to find in any other kind of mate.

And keep in mind, it's easier to manifest dreams with a bit of yang energy around. (Our energy does the same for men.)

Yes, it's easy to manipulate men with fertilization opportunities (and anything that looks like it might be one). Think of a male salmon. He'd probably be unable to keep from squirting all over "fake eggs," too.

But women can be just as easy to manipulate - at least when it comes to babies. Did you read about the woman who just had 8 new babies with implanted eggs...when she already had six, no husband and lives in a small house? What manipulated her? Isn't this also "mating neurochemisty run amok?"

Good points all. There are obviously extreme cases of women going crazy with babymaking. I don't think most women are absorbed in it to the same degree that men are absorbed in porn. I know amongst my peers, there are intermittent biological urges but certainly that level of appeal to being or getting pregnant is not very widespread - perhaps because pregnancy takes place in REAL LIFE, whereas porn does not. Maybe there could be some kind of online virtual way to feel pregnant that women could get hooked on in the near future.

I think that most of women's attempts to minupale the male urge for fertilization opportunities comes in the form of obsessing about how they look, moreso than in their desire to get pregnant with some random person. But then, that is the main difference between the sexes: the consequences of sexual irresponsibility are a lot more obvious for women, and so we are almost forced to be a bit more reigned in sexually if we are at all intelligent and want to continue to have the freedom to be sexual rather than spending our days nursing and taking care of babies while the men keep running around.

I came to this site in early 2008 for information on healing through sexuality, as a logical expansion of healing into all areas of my life. My recovery began in June 2006.

My active addiction spanned some 9 years and caused much destruction to my wife and family both.

In that regard, I agree with you hotspring that most women have been impacted by sexual addiction in today's culture and deserve to be pissed off and weary of men, especially men with these issues.

It is a vicious cycle and I really resonate with Marnia's perspective when she says:

Marnia wrote:

A recovered addict has a combination of humility, compassion, honesty and insight that is tough to find in any other kind of mate.

Ironically, I became aware of sacred sexuality in 2004 while in the depth of my addiction and it was a desperate plea for help out of a living hell. It was this part of my journey that put me in touch with Tantra Goddesses. At first, I believed them to be mere prostitutes but soon discovered in my experience with these ladies that they had compassion and understanding like Marnia and they helped me to begin the path of redirecting my sexuality to match my deeper spiritual intent.

I have had more than my fair share of house cleaning these past few years and I currently chose to live a celibate life until the time I can share sacred sex with a committed partner.

My life is incredibly hopeful these days as I realize my hard work of recovery has prepared me to receive a goddess again some day, I know not when. In the interim, I seem to have attracted many women in platonic friendship because my sexuality is not an issue and I pose no threat. I sense, in some small way, that I can contribute to their healing also.

Had there not been women along the way to share their healing energy with me, even in platonic friendship, I am not sure that I could have arrived at where I am today.

Marnia is right - it is all about healing the planet. I know it's cliche but to think globally, we have to act locally. No sane army shoots it's own wounded. Men and women need each other for this healing to take place and we will all be better off for our efforts.

Acceptance leads to forgiveness which leads to unconditional love. Men are stuck because they are threatened to express their truth and be rejected and/or abandoned by the soothing yin energy they are attracted to yet, without the element of truth, no healing can take place.

Reuniting is a wonderful safe place for this healing to unfold.

Richard

Yes, I agree the site is great source of information how to cope with the problem - and major part of it is by sharing experience. If I am allowed to say something near the end of this topic. I would say several words about my experience, hope you do not mind. I write very often with the quite insulting term 'women' which is of course big generalization of my experience only. I do not want to say that I am any kind of expert in that issue, so I'll start from what I know best: 'men'. Why so many of us have such a problem with addiction (I do not have it luckily, despite running imagination that hits the wall of reality created by women's responses, how would it be like, if some women were...) right, what is other option for us, men? I am foreigner in UK since 2007, and traveled here quite a lot (ok, maybe wrong places you will say). Why do I observe every single day is the same cold, automatic, stereotypical reactions from women around me? I could say I didn't really meet any of them being more original than others. And what is original for me? Being WARM, showing that you want that hug, kiss, ask for smile or whatever else you need. I am not surprised that thousands of men masturbate watching stupid pictures or movies and make themselves more miserable than they are, or could be. There is thousand times more life in digital porn than in a cold response from a woman that we prepare to approach, and when asked about having a walk, she respond with ridiculous 'whaaat?'. There is more warmth, and life than when a woman speak about us almost in front with their friends instead just go to us, smile and say her name!!! Or even talk about carrots, trees, roots, pencils, sticks with great confidence and fun (!), while the man in the corner wants to kill himself hearing all of that? So you can now imagine that horrible picture of hundred masturbating men, and ask yourself: am I happy with that? Another pair of shoes are women involved in the porn industry. I would ask them as well, are you happy that many of guys (probably most sensitive and intelligent) are getting addiction through 'imprinting' for your dead digital (but attractive) pictures making by your fellows and become useless in bed??? It seems that basic human nature of a female is to make a huge list of life requirements, where the last one is smiling eyes and hug from a man who is just dying looking at your picture.

Well done women, well done.

P. s / I am not writing about anyone in here, this forum, so anyone offended has my apologizes. Term 'women' as I said is only simple generalization.

And last word. Talking about neurotransmitters, dopamine or synaptic tag and capture is just big bullshit, tribal family didn't need that to make love.

Does it answer your initial question Discordia?

of the steps you are taking to meet more people? Did you make it to that congregation you were going to try? It's unfortunate that women are nervous around nervous men who seem desperate. I think that if you think about it, you would also be slow to respond warmly to women who seemed that way.

Don't give up, but find ways to connect with *real* groups of people who are open to meeting newcomers. That's where the miracles will occur.