Now available for use: post-orgasmic/withdrawal symptoms tracking spreadsheet

Submitted by Amari on Tue, 2009-02-03 10:51
Announcing and Forum Rules

This is the result we had recently of creating a tool to allow people to track their own withdrawal/hangover symptoms. Eventually we would like to turn this into an online tool, but for now we have it in .xls format. You can download it and use it, provided you have Excel or OpenOffice. It contains instructions for how to use it, but if you have any other questions, please post them here.

Also, if you fill out your sheet and would like to contribute your results to our collective research effort, feel free to email a copy to Marnia.

You can download the spreadsheet here.

For a humorous look at how it came to be: http://www.reuniting.info/node/1483

Submitted by fleur_rare on Tue, 2009-02-03 12:02.

what about the menstruation pain? Possible to put it in there, too? This is a very common symptom, it seems.
And it would make women start thinking about the negative effects of orgasm...
Like: "What?? My heavy menstruation pain and spasms might be an ORGASM-effect..??!!"

Submitted by Amari on Tue, 2009-02-03 13:01.

I suppose I was trying to make it applicable to either gender, so that we could compare data more easily.

Submitted by fleur_rare on Wed, 2009-02-04 12:23.

...just a short note:
This sheet is absolutely great. It is such an eye-opener if you just give it to somebody! Just the symptoms alone make ANYBODY start thinking that there might be something wrong with ...ähm... pleasure-greed, and orgasm.

I might adapt it a bit more with those female symptoms and maybe put a "positive symptoms after day 14"-part to it...

Hey everybody: print it and spread it! or spread it via email...
Kind of "Hey imagine what I found in internet! A medical/psychological spreadsheet about orgasm. You will be so surprised!..."

It is a great tool for spreading the message very easily, maybe everybody gives a bit of input and we optimize it even more? (I did not understand so much, how it really works...)

Submitted by fleur_rare on Wed, 2009-02-04 13:06.

...you mention it in the spreadsheet... I bought some computer stuff today (must be day 7 or so) and I thought about it today and found out that it is the pleasure to have new things. Isn't that interesting?!
Isn't it similar to leaving somebody you know and getting a new partner...?! ...something new in life...

Marnia's picture

Submitted by Marnia on Wed, 2009-02-04 13:37.

Shopping raises dopamine, so if you're down in the dumps, it gives you a short-term buzz.

http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/shoppers_fleeting_high_linked...

Hopefully your pleasure is less than fleeting...and your new item a source of lasting satisfaction.

Submitted by fleur_rare on Thu, 2009-02-05 13:38.

low or high dopamin?

Marnia's picture

Submitted by Marnia on Thu, 2009-02-05 16:25.

One of the scientists who initially did research on prolactin injected himself with it, and experienced PMS symptoms. smiley However, PMS turns out to be more complex than just prolactin.

Prolactin suppresses dopamine, so dopamine may be unusually low in some cases of distress.

On the other hand, oxytocin seems to relieve pain. So bonding behaviors may be helpful.

And there are no doubt more neurochemicals (and receptors) doing more things. Time will tell....

Submitted by fleur_rare on Fri, 2009-02-06 05:31.

I played around with the list a little bit to test it and don't understand, why the "day-after-orgasm"-chart is rising... if I put in day "9" and start with that , the other charts are quite flat squeezed and the moving there becomes less recognizable. Did I do something wrong?

Submitted by Amari on Fri, 2009-02-06 06:59.

You did everything right. I need to find a way to show both of those on the same chart without one squishing the other.

Submitted by fleur_rare on Fri, 2009-02-06 14:00.

...if I have an orgasm say every two to four days it works with the list and nothing is squeezed down (except me...) ...we are really committed to science!!
smiley

Submitted by Amari on Fri, 2009-02-06 14:53.

[bigsmile]

Submitted by Soulsearching on Fri, 2009-02-20 02:38.

i get somehow puzzled though.

From what i understand it basically goes like this:
Assumption: Dopamine should stay at a 0 level. If you are at 0 you are balanced and loving in all aspects (right smiley)
Conclusion: If you have a orgasm, you then monitor your mood swings and other changes in this document. You can then understand that Orgasms effect you in a negative way. I understand this, it is great.

However, what about other dopamine triggers ? Let's say i do not have a orgasm but i fondle my genitals without orgasm or i eat some form of candy or i do parachute jumps or i shop like a maniac and so on.

Also, if i just stopped doing all dopamine raising activities would that do the trick ? Would i then stay at 0 and thus be a happy and stable person ? Or do i have to do the oxytocin increasing actions also (exchanges, taking care of others, hugs) to get to level 0, i like to do these activities but for the sake of argument, would i have to ?

Sorry for a confusing post, but i am confused :O

"Love help us see and compare ourselves with eternity....."

/ Soulsearching

Submitted by Amari on Fri, 2009-02-20 05:52.

Good question. To answer, first, 0-4 is not supposed to represent your level of dopamine, but your level of symptoms. The assumption is that there's some balanced range of dopamine levels that is most comfortable, with highs and lows outside of that range causing symptoms. Of course there are other behaviors that will affect dopamine besides orgasms, but that's not the focus of the document. There are also lots of things that could cause those symptoms besides dopamine fluctuations! It's just a tool to help people figure out how orgasms affect them personally (will differ some person to person), so they can make decisions accordingly.

Submitted by hayduke on Fri, 2009-02-20 08:36.

Marnia often uses the "over-heating" analogy, which makes sense to me.

i believe the thresholds are different for different people, but when I have been explaining my understanding to friends, I will often grab a scrap paper (napkin usually smiley.gif" alt="smiley"/> and then I will draw three parallel lines on it, like this:

__________x________x__________________

---x----------------------------x-----------x----------x---

_____________________x____x___________

So, lets say that the middle line is your "base". don't look only at that base line to define "balance". As long as your "dope" smiley stays within that larger range, then you should always feel *balanced*. however, when we overheat (too much dope), that will trigger the rise and fall, and *that* is what causes the need for eventual stabilizing equilibrium. We are probably never at "0" dopamine... there is a tolerance interval.
Sugar could bring dopamine to levels outside of that range, but probably not as drastically as orgasm. Remember, orgasm can elevate dopamine to levels similar to use of Heroine... and it is *meant* to be so stimulating. We are pursuing a different course of action to promote a higher standard of living *for ourselves*. Its a lifestyle choice.
sometimes maybe you just want to eat that chocolate, or have an amazing orgasm. there is nothing wrong with that. Just sit back and watch the effects... even being aware is better than having it all sneak up on you (and ruin relationships/ leave you in a addictive cycle).

Oxytocin is surely at play in this little model, but it is hard to pinpoint exactly *how*. perhaps its function is to "widen" our range of tolerance, or lessen the wild swings after overheating.

---
the light of my eyes is a pearl,
equally emptied to equally shine;
and all or what little joy in the world
seemed suddenly simple, and endlessly mine.
(mewithoutyou)

Submitted by fleur_rare on Fri, 2009-02-20 03:39.

...it seems. This came to my mind with everything that I am experiencing about it.

I was about to write a post about that myself, thank you for mentioning it.

So... I am day 24 and since day 16 or so , I stopped eating too much. In the middle of the cycle I absolutely loved overly fat/sweet stuff like peanutbutter-chocolate. And MUCH OF IT please. I took 2 kilos during my last dopamin-cycles. Now I'm loosing this weight without depriving me of anything. I'm just not hungry most of the time.

Marnia wrote somewhere that Gary stopped his alcohol-addiction after only 4 months of the new approach (and non-orgasming I guess).

This leads to an interesting and almost incredible possibility: Orgasm is a trigger for other addictions.
Orgasm sets up the neurochemical reactions for any addiction?
Because now I just CANNOT eat peanut-butter-chocolate stuff too much. I still might like it, but just a little bit and then I get fed up with it and stop. It doesn't trigger a dopamin-induced "binging" at all. I just cannot get addicted to it right now.

Could it be possible?
No addictions without orgasms??!!

Submitted by Soulsearching on Fri, 2009-02-20 05:15.

onto something there Fleur. On the other hand i do know that my wife, who is not into orgasms much (more like sexually anorectic), is not a especially stable person right now. She has a problem with food and especially sugar. My thinking is that Orgasms might be the most powerful dopamine trigger (together with heroin) but other triggers (sugar, fatty food, risk taking) can also make the same devastating result. It gets your Dopamine high enough for you to get into the roller coaster. I don't now but this is my unscientific guess, that is all.

I myself does not get hooked on food, it is not a big deal to me. On the opposite i ate less and not much sugar either when i were acting out frequent. I am eating more these days and are actually gaining weight (which is a good thing for me smiley.gif" alt="smiley"/>

Thanks for sharing Fleur and thanks Amari and Marnia for the document.

/ Soulsearching

Submitted by Amari on Fri, 2009-02-20 05:59.

Is that addictions are a way of coping with chronic stress in life (though they can also cause more stress, indirectly!) So if you're constantly lonely or overworked, for example, you have chronic stress. You develop an addiction (or several) that masks your feelings of anxiety or loneliness (both of which cause high cortisol levels). But as long as you have that addiction, it will be much harder for you to deal with the underlying issues. Hence the structure of the Exchanges- you remove the addictive substance or behavior at the same time you are raising oxytocin levels in order to remove the underlying issue (too much cortisol). Make sense?

Submitted by Tantra11 on Fri, 2009-02-20 20:47.

I too noticed that once I became non-orgasmic, my favorite escapes no longer held as much pull for me. Likewise, if I did indulge them (video games, mostly), the desire for orgasm increased. They're definitely linked.

Submitted by fleur_rare on Sat, 2009-02-21 04:34.

Played till 4 in the morning....
Fallout... Isn't that ironic?!
I like roleplay games. Usually I really don't have the time, and I didn't play for a very long time (months).
Day 25. I will observe if it is linked the other way round, too. Had some desire to orgasm when going to bed. Hands off! is a really good strategy!
I feel good now, will see some people today and be in the nature.

Submitted by Tantra11 on Sat, 2009-02-21 14:32.

Maybe for you, video games are just pure happy fun times? Like I can drink alcohol, and it's pure happy fun times for me. It's not linked to addiction. Gambling too. (I'm a Texas Hold'em man.) But video games are different. They're still happy fun times too sometimes, but other times I use them out of boredom, to escape, stay on too long, and don't feel good afterward, but I still do it cuz I needed to escape. That's when I get triggered to want to masturbate again.

Submitted by fleur_rare on Sun, 2009-02-22 11:03.

yeah, everything done out of "boredom" feels sick when I think about it. I learned that boredom doesn't really exist, there's something beyond it and this might be sadness, feeling abandoned, lonely or whatever.

Submitted by Tantra11 on Sun, 2009-02-22 13:23.

Yup. A person truly happy with themselves could just sit and be at peace doing nothing at all, if that's what was called for at the moment. Or, since they're so happy, they'd actually want to do all the things most people procrastinate about and indulge a vice instead. They should teach this stuff in school (or just fix the whole society. smiley.gif" alt="smiley"/>).