Getting results with Out of Body Experience practice

Submitted by augustin on Sun, 2009-08-23 01:21

I shall explain another day in my Astral City blog why I believe that learning to have Out of Body Experiences is probably one of the most important skill a human should learn while physically alive on Earth... The fact is that I have believed so for many, many years. None of my previous close encounters with Astral projection were spontaneous, so I can't say I have a gift for it. On the contrary, I always have had to work hard for them, so much so that I often got discouraged.

A few weeks ago, I renewed my pledge to learn that essential skill, never mind how much time I have to spend learning it. So, I set up a blog at Astral City to keep me motivated and to share with other interested people. I have been practising hours daily with relaxation tapes. But then, three days ago, I was reintroduced to the so called wake-up-back-to-bed method, but this time with the added help of a beeper that would wake you up at pre-defined intervals, to increase the chances of having OBEs. I was seduced, and despite a flu, started experimenting with this new method on that very night.

Today was my third night and here is an extract of my account of the night:

With my flu mostly over, it got much easier to practice, and this morning I got a lot of interesting results. When I started the Wake up back to bed + wake up timer method, I had hoped I would make rapid progress as far as OBEs are concerned. I am not disappointed with an out of body experience this morning, as well as sensations of lifting off the body, and much more :)

[...]

Since that time, I have always been interested in everything connected to the dream world, lucid dreams, "ordinary" dreams and OBEs. I have noted many dreams in my dream diary and I often ponder about the temporal and physical discontinuity between the waking and sleeping worlds. One thing I always wondered was how close I could get my dreaming consciousness to my waking consciousness. Some dreams seem to take place from the current perspective, where I live, my marital status, and current occupation. Other dreams, sometimes during the same night, are from the perspective of my younger self, still single and without a clue that I would one day be living at the other end of the world...

All this is a kind of introduction that will explain the content of the out of body experience I had this morning during my practice. Somehow I had already projected. I didn't find myself in the Here-Now. Like in my first lucid dream from so many years ago, narrated above, I found myself in the garden in my parents' home. The perspective and the mood were different from that first LD. I was conscious of the fact that I was projecting. Indeed, the garden had strange colors and seemed somewhat wider than it really is. I wanted to test myself to see if I could accurately state the timeframe related to my sleeping body. So, I correctly remembered that we were in August 2009, the 20-something of August.... (like in daytime, I was not exactly sure which day, precisely, but I knew we were past the 20th). I don't recall remembering where my physical body was, but I knew in was not in my parent's home. So, I was not in the Here-Now, but most obviously in my Parents-Home-Now. :)

The following experiences, all from this morning, were less like a lucid dream, but closer to a more traditional Here-Now OBE.

[...]

Those interested can read the account in full: Day 3: things are starting to get interesting....

And you?
Have you had / tried to have any such experience? How often?

Community topics: 
dreams
lucid dreams
Out of Body Experience
Astral City

Comments

Marnia's picture

Submitted by Marnia on Mon, 2009-08-24 19:20.

I'm on the road, with little time. But I can't wait to read more of your adventures.

Submitted by augustin on Thu, 2009-08-27 07:20.

... to have more adventures to share.

Personal note to you: I think I broke the mike of my headset while sleeping on it, while practising. On the other hand, the mike may be ok and the problem be elsewhere. I need to check this.

Submitted by Tantra11 on Tue, 2009-08-25 21:33.

I used to try. Never had much success, though sometimes have visions where I see a landscape moving under me as if seen through a porthole. This isn't an OOBE, however, as I'm still aware of my body. It's like a half-dream. I'm awake, but a vision comes. I used to be pretty good at lucid dreaming.

A word of warning: both lucid dreaming and OOBEs can be harmful, so be careful if you're going to mess around with them. I never had an OOBE, so I can only go by the stories of others. It can cause permanent seizures or do damage to one's energy body.

I personally messed up my dream life pretty badly because of lucid dreaming. They lost all vibrancy, and it's taken me years, decades even, to heal them. What happened to me was that I believed that the dream world was a world without consequence and therefore engaged in activities against my conscience in order to satisfy my sexual frustration (this was in high school). Some part of me, my super-conscious perhaps, didn't like this and stopped me by stopping the dream. I didn't take the hint and continued my nightly dream rapes, and in retrospect, I think this might be why my dreams lost their vibrancy. Also, maybe too much conscious awareness blocks the free flow of subconscious imagery, which is probably the purpose of dreaming.

Mess with these things at your own risk! Maybe with proper guidance, good, rather than harm, can come of them. For example, I've heard that in order to OOBE, one should maintain a pure body, such as at least stopping eating meat. Proper motive is probably also important. Ideally, one shouldn't seek such experiences but rather let them happen naturally as a side-effect of one's spiritual path. However, if one does seek them, I think the main thing is to remain pure of heart. Don't go OOBEing because you want to visit a movie star in her shower. ;-) And don't rape anybody in a lucid dream just because you think she doesn't really exist. Probably on some level she does.

Why do you want to OOBE, Augustin? You say it's one of the most important skills for us. Why?

Submitted by augustin on Thu, 2009-08-27 07:14.

Hi Tantra11!

Thank you for your testimony. I had already noted one of your earlier post where you go into details about your lucid dreams. In fact, I thought your post important enough to quote it in the Astral City wiki, on the page dealing with sexuality. I hope you don't mind. I have personally known another very spiritual guy (a fundamentalist Christian!) who also was a good Lucid Dreamer, and who also used lucid dreams to play out his sexual fantasies... until what he perceived as an "angel" came and knocked him out of the bed where he was frolicking with his fantasmagorical mate ;) After that, I believe that he was too scared to try playing with his fantasies again while lucid dreaming.

I have never been a natural lucid dreamer, so I have no conscious control of whatever fantasies play themselves out in my dreams. But they do tell me many things about myself, though.

If I said that the ability to have OBE is one important skill to have, it's obviously because I believe that the Astral dimension is objectively real. Deeds on the Astral plane are consequential, so given the opportunity I would refrain from consciously doing things I would find objectionable on the physical plane. I would be on your side to warn others who thought otherwise.

I have never read and I don't believe that practising OBEs can be inherently harmful. The danger are mostly pre-existing conditions that exists within our psyche. As far as I am aware, I have never had the experience of meeting negative entities that are not an extension of my own psyche, even though I do believe they exist. Meeting them may be frightening, and even painful... but even that would contribute to my own growth.

So, why mastering OBEs is an important skill? Because I don't want to be a believer but a knower, a gnostic. I want to grow from being an agnostic, one who doesn't know, to being a gnostic, in the truest sense of the word. I don't want to use religions as a framework to believe in, but as signposts indicating the path to follow to get to the Truth. In that sense, Atheism is a religion that refuses to admit it is one. Indeed, Atheists are often among the most "religious" and close minded people I know. They believe in many things, and base their lives on those beliefs, yet they have no way of proving that their beliefs are right. Theist people who do believe in a God, in heaven and hell are often no better. They cannot prove any more that their beliefs are right.

On the other hand, thanks to Dante, Monroe and many others, we don't need to believe: we only need to follow their footsteps, especially since Monroe and many others after him left detailed guidelines on how to see for ourselves what they already saw.

If I can grow out of my belief that life carries on after our physical death, and actually be able to prove to myself that it is so, then I would have gained a lot, and I would be a bit more gnostic and a bit less agnostic. This obviously is a lengthy process which cannot be rushed. But think about how different the world would be if everybody could achieve the same proficiency as Monroe did, and were able to visit the various "heavens" that exist for each religion and belief systems (including the atheists' heaven!). Then we would see our life on Earth for what it really is: a temporary 'illusion' to help us grow and prepare us for our future lives. I think the very worse thing that could happen to me is die at the very same spiritual level as I was born in. I want to be better off during my next life than I am in this one. And obviously, I want to be able to prove to myself that I will have a next life!

Yes, I do believe it's an important skill for anybody to have: after all, that is one thing that is certain to all of us: we will all die one day, at least physically. I find it crazy not to be prepared for that day, the most important day of our lives, without any inkling of, as late French president Mitterrand (a known atheist) said while dying of cancer, "what happens next".

Submitted by Tantra11 on Thu, 2009-08-27 08:12.

I kinda suspect the astral plane is real too... don't know, but am open. You're completely right about atheists. I'm a skeptic in the true sense of the word--just someone who's open to things but not ready to believe without evidence. Belief tends to come from an emotional need and indoctrination. For a long time, I didn't believe in spirits or guides, but after working with a shaman, I experienced for myself the presence of a very holy, powerful but loving... not entity... bigger than an entity... just a presence of some kind, I guess, a godly presence. Other times, I've sensed the presence of much more discreet, smaller entities, and these had a stronger sense of having a small self, an ego, thoughts, agenda, physical location in the room, a body even though I couldn't see it, etc. It could be said these were constructions of my mind, but well, we all gotta decide what we believe in. To not believe is also a belief, as you clearly point out. Besides, some people believe that thoughts ARE reality, so then "belief" is reality too. Just that some beliefs probably are just reflections of that emotional need or indoctrination, while others come from a deep knowing. In the end, who knows!

I agree it's a worthy task to investigate this stuff, and if it indeed exists, then exploring it would also be worthwhile. However, I wonder if it's right to say it's important for all humans. I think maybe most people aren't ready and maybe even that the astral plane is so hard for us to get to for a reason (and maybe the same reason why we forget our dreams so readily). My belief is that it takes all kinds: warriors and pacifists, spiritual men and businessmen... and even among spiritual people, some can reach the highest levels without delving into the astral plane. Personally, I'm curious, but I've heard too many warnings to undertake such a venture lightly. (Not so in my past where I dabbled in dangerous belief systems, possibly calling in negative astral entities.) Strangely, I'm still fearless about kundalini, another practice with many warnings.

As far as the dangers of astral travel, what did you mean about pre-existing conditions that exist in our psyche?

My girlfriend, Yvette, recently had what might've been an OOBE. It was wonderful in the beginning, but then she seemed to hit a barrier of some kind. It was soul-wrenching, and afterwards she found her connection to her guides was gone. I think she felt drained too.

I had a friend who almost died in meditation, perhaps because his soul drifted away, and Yvette said it felt like this was a real possibility for her too. Maybe the barrier was her guardian angel preventing her death?

Finally, Peace Pilgrim said she knew a young man who developed lifelong seizures because he forced OOBE before his body was sufficiently purified. (Do you know about Peace Pilgrim? Amazing woman, yet so humble. That's why I put more stock into the things she's said than others. She became a true mendicant in modern America, something no one else that I know of has accomplished. She walked from coast to coast carrying only meager belongings (and a mission to spread peace, both inner and outer), only eating what was given to her.)

All this said, I think with a good teacher, the dangers can be overcome. Apparently there are "bad" teachers too. The young man Peace Pilgrim talks about learned from a teacher, but perhaps this teacher didn't know about the necessary preparations, kinda like how Gopi Krishna raised his kundalini and had lifelong problems too. I've always wanted to meet Michael Winn or Glenn Morris. These guys seem down-to-earth yet also speak of such fantastical things.

Submitted by augustin on Thu, 2009-08-27 08:58.

To not believe is also a belief.

Yes, you summarize it well. Personally, I am very wary of the phrase I don't believe in..., because it implies that the person who "does not believe in anything" has no belief, whereas the opposite is often true: saying I don't believe in God means the same as I believe that God does not exist which proves that to not believe is also a belief.

Your description of experiencing the presence of various entities is interesting.

But again, generally speaking, just like we need to differentiate between believing and knowing, we need to distinguish the experience from its interpretation just like Tart says in the introduction of Monroe's first book or like Ken Wilber nicely explains in his four quadrant model See A Brief History of Everything.

An interpretation can help to understand an experience, put it into context. But it can also mislead and even hinder growth and hide the Truth... So that's also a thing to be careful of.

So, back on the topic of OBE's, my experiencing "going out of my body" is just that, an experience. I am perfectly free to interpret it as my astral body leaving my physical body... but until I know better, I bear in mind that I may be either right or wrong with this interpretation. The same obviously applies to your experiences and Yvette's. I don't have any better interpretation to offer, so I trust in yours.

As far as the dangers of astral travel, what did you mean about pre-existing conditions that exist in our psyche?

Something very simple, really: the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. Often negative OBE or Astral experiences are no more "dangerous" than a nightmare. Often, we "meet" with dark, unconscious elements of our own psyche. We are the ones "attacking" ourselves. But if we manage to see obstacles, dark entities and frightening events as manifestations of our own fearful, dark unconscious, then maybe we have an opportunity to bring those elements back to the surface, deal with them and integrate them, allowing us to grow...

I had a friend who almost died in meditation, perhaps because his soul drifted away,

Apparently, Monroe nearly died himself while exploring some energetically very far corner of the Astral See his third book, Ultimate journeys. According to his own description, his "second body" had indeed drifted very far away...

But then... if we can prove to ourself that reincarnation is a fact, then death is no longer a dramatic event to be delayed at all cost. It is only a rite of passage. Death should be welcome (but certainly not hastened) and prepared for, and something to be happy for as long as every opportunity for growth in this lifetime has been used to its fullest. Maybe it's good that your friend didn't "die" in meditation, because it afforded him more time to get himself ready... but maybe he was already prepared to make the transition. Who knows?

I know about Peace Pilgrim. I love her! She is indeed a marvellous and inspiring woman. Her life puts the whole Maslov's pyramid of needs stuff into perspective! Where did she write about OBE and this person's seizures? I have a book about/from her. I haven't read it in full. Maybe I should.

I don't know about Michael Winn nor Glenn Morris. I'll check them out. Thanks.

Submitted by Tantra11 on Thu, 2009-08-27 10:20.

It might not be in Peace's book, since she downplayed this kind of stuff, but it's in a transcript of a talk she gave at a Unity Church at
http://www.peacepilgrim.com/transcript/fla2.htm :

Quote:

For instance I met a young man in Arizona. This was a sad thing because he was very young and had such potential. But he wanted to come out of his body and see his body lying there. Can you imagine anybody desiring a thing like that? It happens occasionally when you come back from your sleep state. But imagine desiring a thing like that. And so he went to somebody who culd induce this experience and in due time he came out of his body and he saw his body lying there. But he's never been able to attain complete control of his body since. He now has what is sometimes called seizures. He'll walk around the block but he won't cross the street because he's afraid he'll fall down in front of a car. He'll go out in a car. He told me when I talked to him, he had had a seizure in the morning, I talked to him in the afternoon, and he said he had at least one a day and sometimes two or three. He doesn't stiffen like some of them do, he simply collapses, he departs from control of his body. He'll be walking along and all of a sudden he'll just faint, or I don't want to call it that, he'll just colapse. Now he was one who desired phenomena, finally he got it, and he paid fo it the rest of his earth life.

Right on, about interpretation vs. experience. You may very well be right in that the dangers of OOBE are no more than those of a nightmare, but I wouldn't be so sure. The entities may actually exist, be able to possess you or drain you, etc. My theory is that the "other world," whatever it may actually be, must be extremely varied and different cultures or individuals, depending on their beliefs, manifest certain aspects of it. Another way to put it is that they open different doors, or rather, different doors are easier to open depending on their expectations. I had an American Indian friend who described how different tribes had different views of the spirit world, often completely opposite, and one tribe believed it was nothing but darkness and evil, while another believed it was nothing but goodness and healing. The area around the first tribe's land was terrifying at night, while the opposite was the case with the latter's. Some would say that it was the belief that manifested the reality (or at least the terrifying or not so terrifying perception of reality), but I just don't buy into that new age thinking. Beliefs have influence, even a whole lot of power in some cases, but they're not the be all end all.

As for dying, I agree too. However, that's not an excuse for recklessness. If Monroe knew the risks and still believed it was important to go to that far distance, then fine, but that's different than a beginner dabbling in dangerous territory unnecessarily. Or if he saw himself as an explorer, didn't fully know the risks but pushed ahead in order to advance humanity's knowledge, that's fine too, but today we might have access to better guidance, lineages of accumulated wisdom that wasn't available even 25 years ago.

As far as it being our time to die, while I believe that too, I don't think we should think that way while embodied. It just doesn't feel right. There are metaphysical explanations for why it's not right to believe that, but for me, I dunno, I just go by my gut. I guess part of it is that we can never really know for sure. Also, it can lead to a detachment that holds us back. Maybe a very advanced yogi or other such person could know, but I'm talking about us guys who're not quite that level yet.

Here's Michael Winn's forum: http://forum.healingdao.com/general/ . He was Mantak Chia's ghost writer, and seems to be a sincere seeker, despite the commerical emphasis of his websites (and his general craziness).

Glenn Morris is a character too, but underneath, I sense that he's a sincere seeker also. While Michael Winn found it in Taoist alchemy, Glenn Morris found it in a thread of Chinese mysticism hidden in Japanese ninjutsu! I say that we have access to better guidance, but the experiences of these two men was that while it may be a lot better than before, it's still very much a grope in the dark.

Good luck in your gropings! ;-)