My profile is on several dating sites and in each I actually refer to the book and Reuniting website by name as showing the kind of intimacy I would want in a partner.
When I find the right person, we'll be starting off along the lines in Marnia's book and wanting to avoid the mistakes that I and others have made in past failed relationships.
Thank you so much Marnia for all you have done for us!
who found each other on that basis...so it can be done. It's actually very helpful to potential sweethearts, because it's hard for them to believe that you really mean it otherwise - even if you SAY you do. After one of the talks that Gary and I gave we were amazed because he was surrounded by women who couldn't believe that a man would really be willing to stick with this approach, and I was surrounded by men who had similar comments about women! We expected the reverse; men asking him questions and women asking me questions.
Let us all know how it goes. Also let me know if you want to start your own blog. I'll be happy to enable that function for you (or anyone else).
Frankly, it's usually single people who have the most to gain from this material...because they're in between relationships and can more easily look back and see the biological pattern addressed in "Peace." When you're in a relationship, you assume your PARTNER is the cause of all your problems. :)Â
Â
Â
In addition to what Marnia said, it seems to me that it would be easier to begin the practice found in "Peace" in the beginning of a relationship before you begin seeing all the "faults" of your new partner. My partner and I began after we'd already been growing distant from each other for some time (and I was at the point of being completed turned off by sex) and that took a while to get past, even after we began the healing process. I can't even say how many times we've both wished we would have known of this practice when we first got together.
Search on "Jack Johnston"; "Key Sound Multiple Orgasm " or KSMO. This can be practiced solo (In fact the teacher recommends you learn it on your own first before incorporating it with partner sex). Non-ejaculatory whole body multiple orgasm practice for men or women. I am learning it now and it is dynamite.
It sounds like (to one who hasn't tried PBTS method) the two approaches are similar in that they both use increasing arousal to trigger the whole body orgasm as opposed to genital stimulation.
As I understand it there are four different orgasm pathways in the CNS; erection, ejaculation, and orgasm, and a fourth that gives you the first three one after the other in sequence. What PBTS and the KSMO do is trigger the "orgasm only" circuit. Am I on the right track here?
Thanks for your contribution. I've read that material and I hope you'll continue to share your experiences.
Â
Actually, I'm not sure we ARE talking about the same thing. The "Peace" material is talking about how to get around the separation trigger between male and female. It seems that lots of passion (with or without ejaculation) can set off a subsequent desire for distance, or, in the alternative, addictive cravings for sex, alcohol, whatever. Recent neuroscience suggests that this happens because high dopamine (which accompanies striving for any type of orgasm) triggers subsequent neurochemical changes, which partners project onto each other, creating emotional distance.
Â
So let us know how you feel toward your lover in the weeks following your mastery of the practice. That would be really useful information!
Â
The Taoists describe an experience they call a "Valley Orgasm," which seems to be a low-dopamine event. It's a total relaxation response of merging with one's partner. How does the KSMO compare?
Â
Looking forward to your insights.
>The "Peace" material is talking about how to get around the separation trigger between male and female.
Yeah, I get that; the KSMO does not directly address separation much from what I can tell; better intimacy is, I think, simply assumed to be a result of partner practice of KSMO but that seems more icing on the cake; the main aim being helping anyone become super-orgasmic solo or not. THere is somebody (Pan) posting on the KSMO board with years of partner experience with KSMO and he has had greatly deepened intimacy with his wife as a result. He has also experienced a great deal of physical healing as well.
>It seems that lots of passion (with or without ejaculation) can set off a subsequent desire for distance, or, in the alternative, addictive cravings for sex, alcohol, whatever.
Can passion also set off cravings for the object of desire, and would these cravings' persistence depend on *not* getting * the closeness? In other words, would finally getting all I want of sex with some hypothetical person I'm fantasizing about intensely, result in satiety and the Coolidge effect? And as long as the desire is unconsummated, the addiction remains?
In re: the Coolidge effect, I'm reminded of a couplet I read somewhere about unwholesome erotic desires: "past reason hunted and no sooner had than past reason hated"...
>Recent neuroscience suggests that this happens because high dopamine (which accompanies striving for any type of orgasm) triggers subsequent neurochemical changes, which partners project onto each other, creating emotional distance.
I would *LOVE* a citation on this research...
I did notice something very interesting after I started KSMO in that my libido decreased markedly. I don't know if it's a coincidence but perhaps I was in a striving mode and it killed the arousal by peaking dopamine. I'll just have to keep an eye on it. It is coming back slowly.
The interesting thing about the KSMO Super Orgasm is that they say it's like waiting for a shy fawn to come near you; it can't be forced. So that parallels your model. (No striving).
>So let us know how you feel toward your lover in the weeks following your mastery of the practice.
Alas, I am practicing solo for now. But you can certainly get loads of info from Jack Johnston's forum in re: partner sex by looking up the posts from a member named Pan in the couples' section of the forum.
As far as my own solo practice is concerned, I seem to be getting the message that less is more and it helps to use absolutely the slightest amount of stimulation necessary to produce arousal, and then listen to my body as it processes the arousal, because the arousal is what triggers the Super Orgasm, not the stimulation. At stimulation there is a fork in the road which leads either to more stimulation, breathing high in the chest, and ejaculation, or the other fork to stopping the stimulation, and then listening to the echoes which can then build and flood the organism. It's (Super O) like pumping a swing as opposed to pulling back and releasing the arrow from a bow (ejaculation).
>The Taoists describe an experience they call a "Valley Orgasm," which seems to be a low-dopamine event. It's a total relaxation response of merging with one's partner. How does the KSMO compare?
I think they're the same. The KSMO protocol styles itself as a "Valley Orgasm" technique. I.e., I think the parallel is very close between the two approaches in that they seem to be working toward the same goal of allowing orgasm to happen as a result of increasing arousal vs. increasing stimulation to push one over the edge; Peace starts a couple on the path together, KSMO usually teaches people to achieve it on their own, then add partner sex into the equation.
The key sound is a way of circulating chi from arousal down toward the hara or tanden or root chakra (I'm sorry I'm not sure which... "down there!", anyway...) by means of a specific breathing technique/vocalisation. It builds there and spills over into the Super-O.
Can passion also set off cravings for the object of desire, and would these cravings' persistence depend on *not* getting * the closeness? In other words, would finally getting all I want of sex with some hypothetical person I'm fantasizing about intensely, result in satiety and the Coolidge effect? And as long as the desire is unconsummated, the addiction remains?
Â
Absolutely! That's part of biology's plan...to get you to obsess about a certain mate. Why her? Believe it or not, things like pheromones may be at work, attracting you to someone who's immune system is different from yours, and with whom it would "good" to produce offspring. Biology has little interest in keeping you with someone, however.
Quote:
In re: the Coolidge effect, I'm reminded of a couplet I read somewhere about unwholesome erotic desires: "past reason hunted and no sooner had than past reason hated"...
Â
Here's the full sonnet, which I quote in "Peace":
ThÂ’expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and, till action, lust
Is perjured, murdÂ’rous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Â
Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted, and no sooner had,
Past reason hated as a swallowed bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Â
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe,
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
Â
All this the world well knows, yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
—William Shakespeare, Sonnet 129
Quote:
>Recent neuroscience suggests that this happens because high dopamine (which accompanies striving for any type of orgasm) triggers subsequent neurochemical changes, which partners project onto each other, creating emotional distance.
I did notice something very interesting after I started KSMO in that my libido decreased markedly. I don't know if it's a coincidence but perhaps I was in a striving mode and it killed the arousal by peaking dopamine. I'll just have to keep an eye on it. It is coming back slowly.
Â
Perhaps it meant that you were more deeply satisfied.
Quote:
The interesting thing about the KSMO Super Orgasm is that they say it's like waiting for a shy fawn to come near you; it can't be forced. So that parallels your model. (No striving).
Â
That's interesting. Sounds like a fun way to break the addictive cycle of conventional orgasm.
Quote:
As far as my own solo practice is concerned, I seem to be getting the message that less is more and it helps to use absolutely the slightest amount of stimulation necessary to produce arousal, and then listen to my body as it processes the arousal, because the arousal is what triggers the Super Orgasm, not the stimulation. At stimulation there is a fork in the road which leads either to more stimulation, breathing high in the chest, and ejaculation, or the other fork to stopping the stimulation, and then listening to the echoes which can then build and flood the organism. It's (Super O) like pumping a swing as opposed to pulling back and releasing the arrow from a bow (ejaculation).
Â
Thanks for sharing.
I'm an unrequited horse lover, so let me thank you for taking such good care of your pal...and sharing that pic. Welcome to the forum.
Â
xx--Marnia
The Book is very relevant to singles!
My profile is on several dating sites and in each I actually refer to the book and Reuniting website by name as showing the kind of intimacy I would want in a partner.
When I find the right person, we'll be starting off along the lines in Marnia's book and wanting to avoid the mistakes that I and others have made in past failed relationships.
Thank you so much Marnia for all you have done for us!
I know of a couple
who found each other on that basis...so it can be done. It's actually very helpful to potential sweethearts, because it's hard for them to believe that you really mean it otherwise - even if you SAY you do. After one of the talks that Gary and I gave we were amazed because he was surrounded by women who couldn't believe that a man would really be willing to stick with this approach, and I was surrounded by men who had similar comments about women! We expected the reverse; men asking him questions and women asking me questions.
Let us all know how it goes. Also let me know if you want to start your own blog. I'll be happy to enable that function for you (or anyone else).
This site and the book are not for me: I'm single
Frankly, it's usually single people who have the most to gain from this material...because they're in between relationships and can more easily look back and see the biological pattern addressed in "Peace." When you're in a relationship, you assume your PARTNER is the cause of all your problems. :)Â
Â
Â
This site and book are not for me: I'm single
In addition to what Marnia said, it seems to me that it would be easier to begin the practice found in "Peace" in the beginning of a relationship before you begin seeing all the "faults" of your new partner. My partner and I began after we'd already been growing distant from each other for some time (and I was at the point of being completed turned off by sex) and that took a while to get past, even after we began the healing process. I can't even say how many times we've both wished we would have known of this practice when we first got together.
Mari
Key Sound Multiple Orgasm Technique
Search on "Jack Johnston"; "Key Sound Multiple Orgasm " or KSMO. This can be practiced solo (In fact the teacher recommends you learn it on your own first before incorporating it with partner sex). Non-ejaculatory whole body multiple orgasm practice for men or women. I am learning it now and it is dynamite.
It sounds like (to one who hasn't tried PBTS method) the two approaches are similar in that they both use increasing arousal to trigger the whole body orgasm as opposed to genital stimulation.
As I understand it there are four different orgasm pathways in the CNS; erection, ejaculation, and orgasm, and a fourth that gives you the first three one after the other in sequence. What PBTS and the KSMO do is trigger the "orgasm only" circuit. Am I on the right track here?
This site and the book are not for me: I'm single
Thanks for your contribution. I've read that material and I hope you'll continue to share your experiences.
Â
Actually, I'm not sure we ARE talking about the same thing. The "Peace" material is talking about how to get around the separation trigger between male and female. It seems that lots of passion (with or without ejaculation) can set off a subsequent desire for distance, or, in the alternative, addictive cravings for sex, alcohol, whatever. Recent neuroscience suggests that this happens because high dopamine (which accompanies striving for any type of orgasm) triggers subsequent neurochemical changes, which partners project onto each other, creating emotional distance.
Â
So let us know how you feel toward your lover in the weeks following your mastery of the practice. That would be really useful information!
Â
The Taoists describe an experience they call a "Valley Orgasm," which seems to be a low-dopamine event. It's a total relaxation response of merging with one's partner. How does the KSMO compare?
Â
Looking forward to your insights.
KSMO and Peace
Hi Lemniscate:
Good question.
>The "Peace" material is talking about how to get around the separation trigger between male and female.
Yeah, I get that; the KSMO does not directly address separation much from what I can tell; better intimacy is, I think, simply assumed to be a result of partner practice of KSMO but that seems more icing on the cake; the main aim being helping anyone become super-orgasmic solo or not. THere is somebody (Pan) posting on the KSMO board with years of partner experience with KSMO and he has had greatly deepened intimacy with his wife as a result. He has also experienced a great deal of physical healing as well.
>It seems that lots of passion (with or without ejaculation) can set off a subsequent desire for distance, or, in the alternative, addictive cravings for sex, alcohol, whatever.
Can passion also set off cravings for the object of desire, and would these cravings' persistence depend on *not* getting * the closeness? In other words, would finally getting all I want of sex with some hypothetical person I'm fantasizing about intensely, result in satiety and the Coolidge effect? And as long as the desire is unconsummated, the addiction remains?
In re: the Coolidge effect, I'm reminded of a couplet I read somewhere about unwholesome erotic desires: "past reason hunted and no sooner had than past reason hated"...
>Recent neuroscience suggests that this happens because high dopamine (which accompanies striving for any type of orgasm) triggers subsequent neurochemical changes, which partners project onto each other, creating emotional distance.
I would *LOVE* a citation on this research...
I did notice something very interesting after I started KSMO in that my libido decreased markedly. I don't know if it's a coincidence but perhaps I was in a striving mode and it killed the arousal by peaking dopamine. I'll just have to keep an eye on it. It is coming back slowly.
The interesting thing about the KSMO Super Orgasm is that they say it's like waiting for a shy fawn to come near you; it can't be forced. So that parallels your model. (No striving).
>So let us know how you feel toward your lover in the weeks following your mastery of the practice.
Alas, I am practicing solo for now. But you can certainly get loads of info from Jack Johnston's forum in re: partner sex by looking up the posts from a member named Pan in the couples' section of the forum.
As far as my own solo practice is concerned, I seem to be getting the message that less is more and it helps to use absolutely the slightest amount of stimulation necessary to produce arousal, and then listen to my body as it processes the arousal, because the arousal is what triggers the Super Orgasm, not the stimulation. At stimulation there is a fork in the road which leads either to more stimulation, breathing high in the chest, and ejaculation, or the other fork to stopping the stimulation, and then listening to the echoes which can then build and flood the organism. It's (Super O) like pumping a swing as opposed to pulling back and releasing the arrow from a bow (ejaculation).
>The Taoists describe an experience they call a "Valley Orgasm," which seems to be a low-dopamine event. It's a total relaxation response of merging with one's partner. How does the KSMO compare?
I think they're the same. The KSMO protocol styles itself as a "Valley Orgasm" technique. I.e., I think the parallel is very close between the two approaches in that they seem to be working toward the same goal of allowing orgasm to happen as a result of increasing arousal vs. increasing stimulation to push one over the edge; Peace starts a couple on the path together, KSMO usually teaches people to achieve it on their own, then add partner sex into the equation.
The key sound is a way of circulating chi from arousal down toward the hara or tanden or root chakra (I'm sorry I'm not sure which... "down there!", anyway...) by means of a specific breathing technique/vocalisation. It builds there and spills over into the Super-O.
This site and the book are not for me: I'm single
Â
Absolutely! That's part of biology's plan...to get you to obsess about a certain mate. Why her? Believe it or not, things like pheromones may be at work, attracting you to someone who's immune system is different from yours, and with whom it would "good" to produce offspring. Biology has little interest in keeping you with someone, however.
Â
Here's the full sonnet, which I quote in "Peace":
ThÂ’expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and, till action, lust
Is perjured, murdÂ’rous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Â
Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted, and no sooner had,
Past reason hated as a swallowed bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Â
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe,
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
Â
All this the world well knows, yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
—William Shakespeare, Sonnet 129
Check out the research for yourself. http://www.reuniting.info/science/research/sexual_hangover And here's where we put some of it togther in lay terms: http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain
Â
Perhaps it meant that you were more deeply satisfied.
Â
That's interesting. Sounds like a fun way to break the addictive cycle of conventional orgasm.
Â
Thanks for sharing.
I'm an unrequited horse lover, so let me thank you for taking such good care of your pal...and sharing that pic. Welcome to the forum.
Â
xx--Marnia
PS
Here's an experiement that shows drops in dopamine can create psychological symptoms and fatigue. This suggests WHY sexual satiation can cause a "hangover." http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_caus...