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I read in Peace that having an orgasm in dreams constitutes as an orgasm. Is having an orgams in a dream equivalent to having an orgasm in the physical in terms of detrimental effects, ie hangover period for 2 weeks?
I was also wondering, is it considered an orgasm (in terms of Peace) if I ejaculated in a dream, but not in the physical?
Thankyou for your help

Wet dreams - pretty mundane events

This exchange occurred on an academic list I subscribe to, and I thought I'd post it here.

A college newspaper editor asked:

Question: Pubescent males can have problems with "wet dreams," is nighttime ejaculation something that could re-occur later in life if one were to stop having sex and masturbating?

A doctor responded:

Answer: Just a few comments on your questions about erotic dreams.

1. You should probably review some of the work by Hobson and his group at Harvard on dream research, as well as some of the Stanford dream research. Dreams are not what the psychoanalysts wanted them to be.

2. Sex dreams are certainly about sex, in some sense, but it is not clear that makes them erotic. Perhaps they are mechanical sexuality (from the brain's standpoint, that is).

3. Our conscious desires are incredibly complex (and not necessarily conscious, by the way), but our dreams would appear to be much simpler - especially in that so much of the brain is switched off during dream-sleep (REM-sleep).

4. So much of our brain is switched off - or pathways altered - that there is little to no evidence that dreams are informing us of anything, nor that they correlate to our awake states.

5. If one is artificially awakened every time they finish a dream, and someone takes notes on the content, then (rather obviously) we recall. However, without such a mechanism, we tend to have little recall of our dreams (probably, again, because so much is switched off during dreaming).

6. "Physical arousal" during dreams is likely little more than physiological processes (or part of a set of processes) that happen to be triggered at some given time, or a set of attenuated brain functions that are set off.

7. Males and females probably have very similar general dream patterns and processes, although it may well be that testosterone (which tends to peak during an REM state) affects dreams in males somewhat differently than REM in females.

[Needless to say, I think the doctor has a bit more to learn based on these next two "the-more-orgasms-the-better" bits of advice. Wink ]

8. I have never met any male who complained of having a "problem" with wet dreams. I daresay most men would be delighted to be able to have them often. That said, they appear to be more common in men or adolescents who are not achieving orgasm at any other time, but they are more common in early adolescence (early-mid puberty) than at any other age - even though that age group probably masturbates to orgasm far more often than any other age group.

9. “Sex-dreams” are all too uncommon. Sad, but true. The commonest dreams are dreams that are about or otherwise relate to anxiety.

More info on dream orgasms

from sexologists.

Given the audience who I write to, I've done a fair amount of research on "wet dreams." First, and most important, we need to be aware that there is little if no science on the study of wet dreams. Zero, zip, next to none. What you mostly have is anecdote, except for one psychologist who did a survey sometime during the 1980s or early 1990s and published the results.

From what I can tell, there is no correlation between masturbation and wet dreams. Guys who do have wet dreams can have them within hours of masturbating, and I know of know scientific connection between lack of ejaculation and an increase in wet dreams. While I could be totally wrong, I would suspect that the determinants of wet dreams are just as much psychological as physiological, or perhaps even more psychological than physiological.

Even the term "wet dream" is a misnomer, because it seems that a lot of guys have orgasms in their dreams without ejaculation. As for having ejaculation without orgasms, I know of no reports, but this doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There seems to be indications that in boys who do have wet dreams, they are most prevalent in the teenage years and decrease by the early twenties, while the female equivalent seems to increase in the twenties. Again, we're not talking a lot of sound scientific inquiry here.

Also, the idea that males who have wet dreams are somehow more sexual or have higher sex drives than males who don't have wet dreams seems to be unfounded. I've heard from males who claim they have high sex drives who are troubled because they've never had wet dreams.

Light sleepers, deep sleepers, parasomniacs, dyssomniacs -- all of these conditions (or states/traits, depending on the situation and the person) are likely to have effects on whether or
not someone has wet dreams, awakens just before orgasm and/or ejaculation, and so on -- just as sleep quality has some effect on enuretics, and whether or not someone has enuresis.

Note: enuresis is the clinical term for bedwetting (urination)

Re: Dream orgasm

mercury wrote:
I read in Peace that having an orgasm in dreams constitutes as an orgasm. Is having an orgams in a dream equivalent to having an orgasm in the physical in terms of detrimental effects, ie hangover period for 2 weeks?
I was also wondering, is it considered an orgasm (in terms of Peace) if I ejaculated in a dream, but not in the physical?
Thankyou for your help

It is my understanding that an orgam in a dream (in the Astral) is similar to an orgasm on the physical plane and results in a loss of energy, albeit a more subtle kind.

I'm sure you know that dreams reflect our psychological makeup. Having an orgasm in a dream is telling something that can give a cue as to what could happen or is a reflection of what has happenned.

I shall give you an example from my personal experience. I used to have very heated arguments with my wife, to the point that we were just about ready to get divorced around once a week :shock: . The very day we started practicing "coitus reservatus", or "Alchemy" as my wife and I call it, our relationship took a sudden turn and since then has improved drastically. The first few months were not all that smooth, though, and there had been a few falls. Those falls had some painful consequences, but allowed me to see the devastating effects of orgasm (and I was amazed to see that the 2 weeks hangover period is not a myth!). I finally managed to remain completely chaste on a physical level (not spilling the semen). Still, one day I had a very heated argument with my wife, not nearly as bad as the kind we used to have before starting Alchemy, but a nice one-hour argument nonetheless.

That night while sleeping with my wife in our new flat, I dreamt that I was in bed with my wife in our old flat, where we've had so many of those nasty arguments. In the dream, I ejaculated loads and loads of semen. And I mean loads: I wouldn't stop cumming! I was panicking, because my dream self had already internalized that ejaculating had painful consequences. I was truly horrified. I actually had two or three similar dreams during that night alone.

I assimilate ejaculating as a dramatic loss of energy. My dreams were kind of telling me that during that one heated argument the previous evening, I had also lost not a small amount of energy.

As our relationship has steadily been growing better, that argument was the last serious one we've had.

So, I wouldn't say that ejaculating in a dream will by itself bring you a hangover. It is rather a symptom of something else going on in your life, depending on the exact settings and circumstances of the dream (in my dream, I was with my wife, in bed, in our old flat where we had so many arguments: the parallel was easy with what happened the evening before).

I wouldn't worry too much though, if such dreams occur at the beginning, when you are trying to change over to a new way of loving. At the very beginning, I had terribly lustful dreams. In my dreams, I was saying: "I don't care if I ejaculate or not, :evil: I don't care about Alchemy. :evil: I only care about f***ing!" and my lustful dream self was doing precisely that, humping a bottom belonging to a "chick" with a nice body but without a face ("I don't care who that is: it just feels good to do it!:twisted: ", said that lustful ego). :oops:

With time and perseverance, such dreams have subsided, according to my mental and psychological makeup during day time.

Dreams can be an indicator, not only of what goes wrong, but also of what goes right.

The dream symbol for the sexual energy is water (it gives a brand new meaning to the story of Jesus walking on water :idea: ). The week I renounced orgasm and starting earnestly practicing Alchemy, my dreams were full of water symbology: in many dreams, I was at the swiming pool (a pool of energy), in some I was by a water dam, witnessing how the water was rushing through the turbines (hydrolic energy)...

A good book to learn dream interpretation:
Living your Dreams, by Gayle Delaney.

And, if you have the ability to lucid dream, I would certainly warn anybody against trying to do in the Astral (in your dream) what you try not to do in the physical.

Peace,

Pistis.

Dream orgasms

Thank you, Mercury for bringing up this subject, and thank you Pistis for your insightful reply. This "dream orgasm" issue is one I would like to learn more about, as it points to subtleties that have yet to be fully understood. Oddly, the problem seems to haunt women as much or more than men.

In the experience of several of them, including myself, the "hangover" is still present...which is a nuisance. I believe it is often less severe than a waking orgasm (perhaps less directly projected onto one's lover), but the point is that it still creates emotional friction. I'd encourage you to watch your own reaction over the next two weeks following one and see what you learn.

Also, share any insights you have about what helps as you go forward without them!

Meanwhile, here are some anonymous experiences and suggestions from other women. They show the importance of mutual commitment to the practice, and unconditional giving:

--Since I read your book almost a year ago, I have not had an orgasm intentionally or by accident in my waking life because I am so convinced of the devistating side-effects. However. About every 2 -3 weeks, I have a very intense orgasm in my sleep, sometimes a couple nights in a row...sometimes I am having a sexual dream and sometimes I am doing something in my dream completely unrelated to sex, like driving a car somewhere. They are so strong I cannot stop them and I always wake up. And then the cycle starts over again. There have been a couple times that I have gone a month or more and when I do, I am happy, peaceful, clear, positive, I love my husband and I feel like connecting sexually and intimately. But most of the time, I am under the influence and am depressed, confused, tired, and think that my marriage is all wrong and I really don't want sex. I finally started to go to counseling and am going to be working through this if I can, but thought you might have had some experience with this or know of others who have and what can be done.

My husband and I have not done the exercises as written, nor have we completed more that probably 5 of them. He is less than enthused and it is hard to know how to go about doing them myself. When we do have sex, I make a huge effort to "hold the space", a loving and protective, high vibrational space and send him love, pouring into him...but if for a second I stop or lose my focus, he comes instantly.

Anyway, my main question is about orgasms in one's sleep. I have no problem making the choice to obstain in waking life. I have a lot of self-control. But at night, I can't seem to control it. Do you have any knowledge of this arena or any suggestion?

--I would suggest she offers her husband massages as often as possible as
that will help stabilise her energy, men rarely refuse a massage,
especially foot massages. She should probably keep from intercourse (during the hangover) even if
she is strong willed as it looks like her husband is not and the fallout is affecting him and making him
more grouchy. Suggest too that if she is eating a lot of sugary foods or
chocolate - to cut back. I think that has helped me in the past re dream
O's. Certainly being in close proximity to someone and not exchanging energy is a bummer and conducive to fall out.

--I definitely agree with your friend about the dream orgasms. P. and I also talked about the possibility of stagnation being the problem. It seems that when one of us is ready and wanting to move forward, but the other is stuck (probably by fear) for too long a period, the dream orgasm happens. I was feeling stuck for so long. Then when I finally felt ready, P. got stuck. Ironically, he began to stagnate right after he started really opening up to the practice. Now we seem to be at about the same point, willing to put our fears aside and move forward together. Oh yes, the massage works wonders also. Yesterday, P. came home from school with a headache, and I was home feeling very anxious, and immediately exchanged foot and back massages. The rest of the night we both felt so much more at ease with each other. Its at the times when you feel the least like giving that giving is the most important.

link with Diet

In my dream there was more emphasis on the ejaculation rather than the orgasm. I can't even remember if there was an orgasm, just the ejaculation. I did feel lethargic in the morning and tired for most of the day, although I don't know if that was a result of my feelings of disappointment or frustration at this occurring.

I've been trying to work out why my Dream O might have occurred. My thoughts during the day were not lustful.
I rarely drink coffee, but during the day before the dream O, I had 2 large mugs of full strength non-instant coffee. This could have had an effect. Also, my calorie intake was more than usual that day.
I found some of this information interesting.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex3.htm

"Diet has a significant influence on sexual desire and behaviour. Meat, fish, shellfish, eggs, salt, spices, onions, garlic, alcohol, (nonherbal) tea, coffee, and tobacco, for example, can all act as aphrodisiacs. Animal products, especially meat and seafood, contain uric acid, which irritates and inflames the genital mucous membranes, triggering sexual arousal. A low-protein vegetarian diet, on the other hand, tends to have the opposite effect [10]. Overeating is endemic in the rich North, and is reflected in the high incidence of obesity, cardiovascular diseases, and diabetes. In a wartime experiment, 32 men reduced their food intake from 1700 to 1400 calories daily for six months. They reported that sexual desire, erotic dreams, nocturnal ejaculations, and aggressive impulses all but disappeared [11]. "
"Some people think that without a sexual outlet, semen will simply accumulate in the male, leading inevitably to nocturnal emissions ('wet dreams'). This myth reflects the widespread ignorance of the key fact that unexpended semen is reabsorbed into the bloodstream. The testicles can actually produce more semen in one day than the body's receptacles can hold.
There is no evidence that celibate men have more nocturnal emissions than sexually active men. Nocturnal emissions are often a sign of inflammation and congestion of the urethra, resulting from frequent sexual activity and/or a highly stimulating diet. Other causal factors include pressure on the seminal vesicles caused by their being sandwiched between a distended (constipated) colon and full bladder [10]. If all these causes are eliminated, and if all sexual thoughts and fantasies, and other types of erotic stimuli are completely curtailed, nocturnal emissions will not occur. This may take several lifetimes to achieve. "

Ancient Chinese lore

In the anthology (and insightful analysis) of ancient Chinese sexology texts, The Art of the Bedchamber, author Douglas Wile reports that dream orgasms, like excess sexual cravings, are a function of depleted sexual energy, not excess sexual energy. Here's short passage:

Quote:
It was observed that ejaculation, although depleting physical reserves, has the opposite effect on sexual desire. After an immediate postcoital letdown, there is a rapid psychological rebound and an intensification of erotic interest...."When the ching is full one is free of lustful thoughts." It was noted that premature ejaculation, spermatorrhea [ejaculation without orgasm], and nocturnal emissions were assiciated not with a high level of sexual energy but with deficiency, often resulting from.."expenditure without restraint."...Certain herbs, yogic practices, and coitus reservatus [intercourse without orgasm] can all contribute to "strengthening and stabilizing the ching."

I wonder if somehow those who experience this symptom might be feeling drained by interactions with their partners. Giving seems to be at least a partial "cure." But perhaps mutual giving is the best prevention.

Thanks for the link to the Blavatsky site. Very interesting indeed.