Day 7
Overcoming this addiction is one of the most humiliating and humbling experiences of my life. Lately I've been thinking, what if being tempted isn't a curse but actually a gift? What if this whole process is a way to keep me in check and keep me from becoming too proud and arrogant? I'm finding it harder to judge and condemn people the more I follow this path. How can I when sometimes during this experience I feel lower than low? This for me is a very humbling experience, and I like it.
Lots of love
Courage
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True
the more I've learned (and observed in myself and others) about how biology can yank us around if we give it half a chance, the more compassion I experience for everyone. It *is* humbling.
There's a story I heard once
A young monk went to confession with his spiritual father. He confessed his inability to stay sexually pure. His confessor berated him for his lack of control, telling him he didn't have any business being a monk. So the monk left the monastery and headed back to town.
On the road, he met one of the other elder monks who stopped him and asked him where he was going. Upon learning the story, he directed the monk to return to his cell, and encouraged him to continue his spiritual struggle. Then he went to the young monk's spiritual father's cell and standing outside he prayed, "Father, let this monk experience the same struggle that the younger monk did." Directly, the spiritual father left his cell in great distress, being driven crazy by his passions.
I had given up trying to control these drives, and took it as God's way of keeping me humble. I failed every time I tried to overcome it, no matter how I prayed, etc. And while I've made progress of late, I want to be careful not to consider this what I've achieved, as much as a gift I've been given, and will treasure if I'm so allowed to keep it. And maybe I can help others in the same situations to find that gift as well. And I thank Gary and Marnia for their part in me finding this gift.
Day 8
Thanks Cole, I'm aware of that story. My spiritual side has always been drawn to the early Christian fathers. I actually came over this story again lately while reading through the divine ascent by St John Climacus.
Feeling good today. Today is Sunday and being the weekend it's a very dangerous two days for me. I've been good at avoiding giving in to triggers so far and putting a limit on my internet time has helped me very very very much so far and I highly recommend doing it. Forget checking on your emails, facebook, forums etc every few minutes if you can. It really helps you to avoid the triggers. I find I'm very vulnerable when I'm sitting in front of the pc and I'm bored.
So far so good. I think if I can make it past the weekend that I should be able to make it to next weekend easy.
Wish me strength
Courage
This for me is a very humbling experience, and I like it.
Cole,
I like your comment.
The fact that we have fallen is simply that. We get hurt, others may get hurt, however it takes real strength to get back up and stand tall again and make things right. That process is humbling, yet something to be proud of, and to savor.
This line of thought is so much more rewarding than...
the one about the Superior Man. That just turns me off completely. The idea that any behaviour makes us in some way superior to others is to me abhorrent. A person may be better educated, wiser, more capable, better disciplined etc than another, but superior? No.
Superiority Complex: An exaggerated opinion of one’s worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, persistent attempts to correct others (regardless of whether or not they are actually correct), a tendency to discredit others' opinions and over-forcefulness aimed at dominating those considered as weaker or less important. - All that stuff just makes a person very difficult to take seriously or very easy to punch, depending on the scenario :)
The book also only rates 3 stars on Amazon, hardly superior :)
thanks for reading,
Brenmal
Day 9
Thanks for your comments.
I met a nice woman yesterday but damned if I knew how to keep a conversation going with her. We seemed to click but who knows. My head is so unclear at the moment. I think the problem is that I've drowned that urge that a human being has to have a partner with all the self abuse I've put myself through. I think this natural urge we have sort of leads the way and helps you flirt in a nice genuine way with the opposite sex.
The thing is I don't like forcing things or using silly pick up lines or acting like the male I'm "supposed" to be to get a woman, and I don't want to be with a woman that falls for all that nonsense either. I'd like to be me and I'd like a partner that loves me for who I am. I think there's a flood of hypocrisy out there between the sexes.
I sometimes get attached and obsessed with potential partners, this usually happens when I'm in my cycle of masturbation and I've become very weary of this since it eats up so much of my time and energy. I fantasize romantic scenarios and feelings which aren't real and can dwell on them for months or years, eating up my life.
I guess the only thing I can do is be myself and hope for the best.
I think when you're
I think when you're abstaining, you're less needy for women (you have proven you can reject sex), you're physically and mentally stronger, more relaxed in their presence, and projecting more male energy. I think women pick up on that lack of neediness and strength and well, the results are quite positive.
Frankly,
you guys start to glow.
Can you think of something
you two could do together...an activity that wouldn't make conversation hard...like a street fair, or an outdoor concert? Women don't like phony lines either, actually. But most prefer to respond to your overture, so most any overture will do.
Day 11
Marnia I'll see how I go, I'm a very shy person so it's difficult for me to make any proposal at the moment. I'll see how the vibes and all that are.
I've noticed my skin has a nice healthy complexion about it the last few days which I think is definitely linked to my abstinence. I'm feeling better and better everyday even though I'm still feeling a bit down. I felt a little "horny" today so I have to be very careful, I don't want to start this all over again and lose the good vibes I'm feeling.
Thanks for your comments
Courage
That's encouraging
When you know you're "glowing," it's easier to be outgoing.
Just remember, she could be very tired of sitting at home or giggling with her friends....
LOL
Good point Marnia!
Hmm..
The greater is your sin , the higher the pull to being spiritual...
I see this a bit differently
I subscribe to the idea that our sexual energy is our life force energy, so also our spiritual energy. So as you begin to free your energy from its narrow focus on seeking orgasm, it naturally begins to "refine itself upward" as the ancient Chinese Daoists put it.
No sin, just a choice that narrowed past focus.
I agree
I actually read this statement somewhere,actually I too do not believe in something called sin.
The reason I felt it made sense is because it appeals to one who is still stuck with the dualistic language . To be precise I feel that which we feel is the greatest negative, is actually the biggest positive in a different context.
I agree that the narrow focus of orgasm in terms of space and time, ( The notion that I want it in my genitals and I want it now) is the route cause of the suffering.
If we can embrace the universe where is the need to orgasm in such hurry ?
Once you know that things are neither good nor bad, it is only our inherent obsessive tendency of classifying things into good and bad which makes it so, all notions of good and bad vanish.
Sad thing is that such a realization is easy at the intellectual level.
( But I am sure this realization one day is going to sink deep into my primitive part of the brain ) :)
Sin
I think there is a balance there. Few other than some radical terrorist would classify the killing of 3000+ people on 9/11 not bad, even neutral.
Things generally are not bad or good, but they can be used for bad or good by the person wielding them. But to say there is no bad or good at all is to say it is okay to go next door and kill my neighbor so I can have his car, and everyone else should be good with that.
And I should add, most Christians as well as non-Christians don't have a clear concept of what sin is, and thus it has some baggage and connotations that shouldn't be attached with it. Many think of it as not following God's arbitrary rules. But the reality is something is called a sin because it is destructive to one's self or another, and thus best to be avoided.
Now, where debate would come in is in whether act X is destructive or not, and people will argue all day long about those fine lines. And really that's what this site is saying. Orgasm produces some chemical results in the brain that hinder building strong relationships, so fewer of those and more bonding will greatly help relationships to grow. One route is potentially destructive to us, the other more beneficial. That's really all "sin" really means. But a lot more connotations were attached to that word when it began to be used in the context of shaming and excessive guilt that resulted in despair instead of going to the doctor, getting some medication, and healing it.
I respect other views on this, of course, but thought it maybe helpful to offer a different perspective than maybe what's been assumed or bandied about. Being obsessive about labeling things as good and bad, however, is a problem. Traditionally, that's been called legalism of which the Pharisees in the NT were real good about doing, focusing on the symptoms rather than healing the disease, and consequently, making it worse, not better.
The worst sins of all are..
To know in your heart that you're doing something wrong and do nothing about it.
Or to look away when evil is being done, to pretend it isn't there. That's a sin.
Brenmal
As best I understand it
a non-dual perspective like Satz is talking about isn't saying "doing bad things is fine." It's saying that "evil" doesn't exist as a counterpoint to "good." Horrors that we create certainly do exist, but not evil in opposition to good - in some grand cosmological scheme.
Something I read described the situation this way: Our creator gave us (the equivalent of) a set of paints in a universe that is, at base, purely beneficent. If we choose, as we have, to paint some really ugly pictures, that's our business. It doesn't change the greater Reality of creation. It just means that, within our bubble, we have to live with some really ugly stuff.
The purpose of practices like meditation and karezza and exercise and service to others and generous acts is to help us balance ourselves so we can realign with that greater Reality and stop obsessing over the "evil" we see in our "pictures." When in balance, we automatically paint prettier pictures.
We also begin to recognize the truth that in the larger sense, there is no "evil."
Ying and the Yang
Not that I've studied that, but what you're saying is that the opposition of the two as presented in that philosophy would be off the mark.
I can buy that on a one-to-one basis. Sort of like The Matrix, where the Smith exist as a counterpoint to Neo, to keep the world in balance. I would agree, it isn't like that.
But there is truth that we wouldn't know good except in contrast to evil. I suppose we'd experience it well enough, but we wouldn't know how good good is, except in contrast to its perversion.
That said, it is up to the person to chose good or evil in their lives. They aren't forced into it by some cosmic force demanding good/evil balance in the world.
perception. OK let say there
perception. OK let say there was no evil as we think of it now. Or what people would say is evil these days.
Lets say everything shifted to what most people would call good. The whole world shifted to the view of good or utopia that many would have now.
Well I think it would not take long for the to contrasting sides of "good" to shift and one be viewed as bad or evil. We humans like extremes.
So I think it is all perception. We would just change the lower forms of good into the "bad" practices cause they are not as "good" as the higher forms of good.
does that make any sense ? :)
I guess basically humans will see good and bad in anything even good.
I'm confused
Are you saying yin and yang are "evil" and "good," or some how a dualistic system of thought? My understanding is that yin and yang are like two poles of one electrical current. Each without the other is stagnant. And when they flow in an ideal manner, the synergy between them gives rise to really great things. This is not a dualistic system, as I understand it.
Frankly, I do not buy the idea that we ever need evil to understand good. I'm more with Seeker, in believing that our perception is the biggest factor in what we see...and that's why clearing our perception up is so important if spiritual awareness is a goal.
Well
Like I said, I haven't studied the ying/yang thing [ying], so I wasn't speaking as representing that view of things, but the idea that I think is commonly understood by that paradigm (at least for us who haven't really looked into it) is that you have equal good and evil balancing each other out, and you don't have one without the other. So I was relating that to what you were saying, that specific concept. But the actual philosophy as taught may very well have little to do with the popular view of what that symbol and terms mean.
I guess I would agree and disagree. That is, I understand that good and bad *from our perspective* can be relatively understood. For instance, in early Christian theology, Adam and Eve were naked, but not in the sense we experience now. Instead, they were clothed with God's glory/light. What we currently value contrasted with that experience is like no longer seeing the stars because the sun is shining. Enveloped with that experience, to focus or think in the more animalistic passions is silly, because they wouldn't even be on the radar screen. Once the fall took place, that glory fell away, and they could now see their full nakedness for the first time. And in contrast to where they'd been, that was a shocker.
But, I would say despite our perception, that there is actual wrong and right out there. And I'm not the one to judge such things. But then we're getting into religious beliefs which I know some of you don't share, so there's not much point to discuss that. It's enough to say that I don't see right and wrong as totally relative to me, or another person, while I would agree we view them often as relative. And that what many of us think as "good" now would either be seen as evil or simply disappear as anything of value in light of experiencing an even greater good. But that doesn't mean what I thought was good no longer in actuality is, it is what it is. It's all a matter of what value we place upon certain things. But I guess the difference is that I don't think I'm the final judge of that, but there will be one.
But, to bring this back to the point, I agree with the premise in context of what was being discussed. That is, some of our values of what is good and bad are screwed up either because of shame or unresolved guilt over actions, instead of further healing.
And, I dare say, that's a bad thing. :)
I see
Guess I think in terms of karma. That is, if you do something to someone you wouldn't like done to you, then it's going to seem pretty "evil" when it comes back. Hence the wisdom of the Golden Rule (which is found in most great religions, from what I hear).
No, the yin and yang symbol most definitely doesn't stand for "good and evil." Here's a bit of education for you: http://www.taopage.org/yinyang.html
Enjoy!
Nice conversation
I'll try to describe how I feel about the situation. Taking for example my current predicament, where I find myself being drawn away from love by lust. From what I've gathered love is good because it makes me feel happy and peaceful and warm inside. Lust is bad and not good because it's followed by anger, hate, sadness, loneliness etc and draws me away from love and empties me of happiness.
Sin is whatever draws me away from love, which could be anger, hate, pride or lust for example.
In the grand scheme of things though I believe everything is good under the sun in the sense that even the negative things in life have their purpose. They're sort of there to discipline us and put us on the right track.
I feel that there is a battle going on inside me on so many fronts between good and evil and that I have the freedom to choose which side I want to be on.
To courage
I take the medicine called self correction, when I am ailing but I do not forget to give enough love to myself.
Hugs to you courage :)
How does someone give love
How does someone give love to them self?
How how ?
Well the same way you give love to others, just for a moment think the other is "you"..
:)
Day 13
Today was a very rough day. I had strong urges throughout the day and even had a peep sort of, I don't want to say how it happened but let me just say that the mind will think of amazing things to be able to have a little glimpse of what it wants. The images looked pretty weird to be honest, they sort of half aroused me and made me feel like a bit of a fool for viewing them. I then was sort of reminded of all the negative aspects of what I was doing and left the browser. This lasted for about 1 or 2 minutes.
I sort of felt a little negative after doing this but feel much better now and am glad I didn't give in. I think the urge to get my act together was stronger than the urge for a quick fix which is positive. I feel the urge to look at porn is still strong but sort of hiding at the moment waiting for the right time to sneak up on me so I have to be alert.
Sorry you're stuggling,
but nice save! What things help the most when the urge strikes?
Day 18
Still hanging in there. I've nothing much to say. I've been feeling much better and I feel I've gained a lot of control over this. Having said that I'm still very cautious and I know how sneaky this thing can be. It's amazing how just after 18 days how much my perception has changed. I look back and I think was that really me doing that? How could I have been so foolish and reckless? How did I let myself get so trapped and tangled in the porn web? How can I contribute to such a thing by watching? Was that really me? I feel so ashamed of my past self, but I'm also looking forward to seeing where my future self will take me.
Lots of love
Courage
Nothing to feel ashamed of
Your biological parts were just doing their job of yanking you around by the short hairs.
Happens to just about everyone on the planet.
That said, it really is like awakening from a trance, isn't it? That's kind of cool...once you're awake. Congratulations on your progress. Well done.
Hi
Congratulations bro :)
Day 21
Although I'm feeling great physically, mentally I feel I've set myself up for disaster. I've been going on fits of rage lately that have spiked my porn addiction and I've been having strong urges to view porn and masturbate especially today. It's really destroying whatever good mood I had along with giving me the urges. I have to be so careful of this, there are so many better ways to react but sometimes some people know how to push the exact right buttons to get me started.
Sorry you're having trouble
I guess part of any recovery is learning to cope with the triggers that "always" allow the primitive brain to have its way.
What are you doing to support yourself?