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Miraculous trigger
Before I loose interest in telling my story, I thought I would pen it down. For I am not sure how long I would be interested in verbalizing my state.
Imagine you have climbed a huge mountain painstakingly and you are at the edge of a cliff, facing a vast expanse of space beneath you and you are headed for a glide. But something stops you, pulls you from behind, so you hang there at the edge of the cliff, ready to take off, but are being held back by an unknown force. You do not know what that force is, you have no clue. Then suddenly a white swan approaches you from the top flies very close to you, above your head and knocks you off the edge setting you free, making you glide into the valley below.
Until that point you are just at the edge of the cliff as if waiting to be freed.
What this site did to me is that it just gave me that miraculous trigger.
I am afraid my story would be too big to tell you here, But I will try to cut it short.
In Indian philosophy we have the six enemies that need to be conquered to attain the spiritual bliss.
They are
Kama ( Lust for sensual pleasures, craving)
Krodha ( Anger)
Lobha ( lust for money and riches)
Moha ( entanglement of human relationships)
Mada ( Ego)
Matsarya(Jealousy)
I had put in years of practice to overcome these and succeeded in all but two. Kama and Mada.
In my case these two were intricately related. Lust comes in the disguise of love. In pure love, there is no ego. In pure love there is no lust.
Love is to be compassion and sympathetic joy. Love is to to give and not gratification. When there is no ego there is no fishing for gratification.
Ego and lust go hand in hand one does not live without the other.
After years of meditation and other yogic practices I had reached a state from the past two years where:
I would never ever get angry with anyone, including my two children and my wife. I Had no trace of lust for riches, no jealousy.
However though I was in a very great state of calmness and tranquility the method that I followed did something strange to me. The practice of watching porn which was dormant in me suddeny surfaced which was very minimal in the beginning of the last year.
In the last few months I started watching porn for huge number of hours and started masturbating three times a day, and to my surprise I did not have any guilt or tiredness during this period but I used to feel intense bliss, moving of enormous energy around my face and my head. (If you are used to used to the language: Eyebrow chakra and crown chakra)
But I knew that watching porn and masturbating resulting in ejaculation was incompatible with my spiritual state though I did not have any issues with it like remorse or guilt or anything like that. I even spent huge amount of time with my family and friends helping them find solutions for their problems in day-to-day life, and just being there for them. They used to find me a source of compassion and love. But something was amiss. I was extremely calm but there was no rapture.
I read this sentence of Buddha suddenly one day:
The fire of sensual lust and rapture are mutually incompatible.
(Please not here that when I say lust it does not mean sex, lust means craving, sex is a neutral word)
I had been a reader of this site since may be about a year, and found it very fascinating for tow reasons:
1. Its neurological approach to the issues.
2. But more importantly its non-judgmental view and compassion of the creators and members.
I just logged into this site a few days back and suddenly was aware of this enormous compassion of the lady called Marina touching my awareness. (Whom I call the white swan)
It gave the necessary trigger and I am off the cliff gliding into the vast expanses of bliss.
I can not give any rational explanations for this happening. It had to happen, and if I may emphatically say so, yesterday is the last day I would have watched porn.
If it relapses, I would log in and let you know all. However the chances are extremely bleak, for my preparations were enormous and porn only remained like a insignificant piece of thread lingering on somewhere in my brain, it just detached to itself.
This story may seem a little too dramatic , I even had though of not wring this at all, but there something in me which made me write this. Especially the fact that I owe so much of love to all of you.
If in case you are interested:
The practices that I did:
1. Tantric yoga
2. Worship of goddess in the traditional form, through recitation and inner worship.
3. Following of Buddhist insight meditations.
4. Reiki Healing (learned from master Ranjith)
5. Contemplations on the deep meanings of the unexplainable Tao.
Some of the books that really helped my sadhana (Spiritual Journey)
1. Tantra ( transformation of desires) by lama Yeshe
2. Mahamudra
3. Tao Te ching
4. Buddhist text ( Mostly Teravada)
5. Surangama Sutra.
6. Sufi books and songs by Rumi.
7.Lalitha Sahasranama ( Hindu)
7. Astavakra Geetha (Hindu)
8. The Bhagavat Geetha (Hindu)
9. Drik Drishya viveka.(Seer seen descrimaination) ( Advaita- non duality- Hindu)
Love, light and peace
Hugs to all.
In case anyone feels my words make some sense I am willing to write here if it helps anybody.
However I personally feel that the fact that I am writing my experiences here means that my experience is incomplete and there are traces of ego.
- Satz's blog
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Comments
The message
I do not know whether my testimony violates statistical facts. But I am 100 % sure I am free.
And I can vouch that one can be free of any habit in no time.
I like this small Buddhist exercise( From the book: The way it is):
Recall something which you always feel bad at. Eg: "I am bad at math".
Go to a quiet place sit in a comfortable posture and close your eyes bring that thought to your mind contemplate on it for a minute and then deliberately repeat the sentence " I am bad at math" for a few hundred times.
You will find something very funny happening after say about 80 times. ( Number could differ from people to people.) You feel it is crazy to do it. You will feel that you are unnecessarily putting that sentence into your brain forcefully, and if you do it seriously enough you will start laughing ! You would say " This is ridiculous"
Why should I be telling myself that" i am bad in math ?"
While actually you have been doing it unconsciously( putting that thought into your head )for years together !
It is you who put it there, so you can easily throw it out and only you can do it !
Mind is like an empty bowl. You can put anything in it , like thoughts. But mind is different than thoughts.
Don't identify yourself with the thoughts.
Mind is the container, thought is the content. You are the container not the contents.
If you go to a room, you will have an impression of the room : curtains, chairs and table.
If someone asks you to think of the room you will recall the nice curtains , chairs and table etc. But Think about it, these are actually the contents of the room, if you throw all these the room does not go away, the room still exists.
We always are habituated to identify with the contents and not the container.
If someone spills tea on your shirt, will you start crying and say " oh my life is ruined ?"
No , because you can change the shirt because you are not the shirt.
Similarly if you have bad thoughts it makes no sense to cry over them.
Thoughts are not you.
They are removable like shirts. You are not to be identified with the removable.
Set yourself free !
You were never bound anyways
Hugs
Love , light and peace.
Thanks for sharing what
you've been learning.
Marnia, My White Swan Goddess
many blessings on you
Thanks for the info. I got
Thanks for the info.
I got tired of saying my phrase at something around 200 times probably more. I felt nothing and no different about it at the end then when i started. I just got tired of saying over and over. Well cause it is true I suppose. I used. I am bad a spelling. which is not a good way to say it I just used your formula.
I have been round and round. the "you are not your thoughts". Maybe you are not be but I am. If I am not my thoughts then what am I ?
My beliefs. We are a random happening billions of years ago. We evolved on this plant over those billions of years. All those different creatures linking to where we are today. Our brains are just a very complex organic computer. It stores information and experiences. We are those experiences. We are the thoughts that come from that collection of recorded memories and experiences. That is all I believe we are.
I think most people are afraid of there being no grand scheme. Afraid there is nothing special about us. About anything.
To me it is all a random freak of luck we exist. I am ok with that.
What were you before your
What were you before your nervous system developed? What were you when you were a two week old fetus?
This is good. I suppose
This is good. I suppose there was a collection of stuff and what ever it takes to create a body. I would not say it was "me". It was not me before my brain developed and started recording data. It was just a collection of stuff that makes up the forming of a body.
As I said I believe we are our thoughts and our thoughts are produced by the brain by processing the stored data. So I did not exist before my brain started processing data. There was no "me" before that time. There will be no me after my brain stops processing data either. That will be it. I do not believe in a larger scheme of things.
Books
I put your list on the Wiki http://www.reuniting.info/node/3756
I love to read. Could you be more specific with your references?
Peace
Sure
Sure will come back with it , as some of these are in my language and not in print form may be I will have to dig up the references, will do that shortly.
I have updated most of the references.
Many thanks
Did the Sufi source say anything about sexuality in that tradition?
I'm glad you decided to post
I'm glad you decided to post Satz and I'm looking forward to following your spiritual journey and hearing about your progress.
Lots of love
Courage
Me glad too dear
I will surely keep you posted, I am listening to you too.
Love, light and peace
Well
What exists between two thoughts ? Try to see if you can notice the pause between two thoughts.
In Buddhist philosophy they talk about birth and cessation of thoughts. Thoughts do have birth and death.
If you observe your thoughts you would find that there is no continuity, thoughts are discrete. But it is the inability of us to tell us apart from the chain of thoughts results in the conclusion that we are the thoughts.
I do agree that it does take a lot of effort to get to this understanding because this is not available to intellectual exercises but to a practice of what is called witness state. Which means one has to stop analyzing, stop judging and stop theorizing and just be.
The exercise which I mentioned above may fail for the first time, because we are so much habituated to continuously thinking that we are unable to feel the moment of silence between any two thoughts. But if we practice this we will be able to witness that.
You just observe everything that you do for a few days, then you realize that you exist apart from your thoughts. Just don't do anything else like analysis or taking sides. This is the essence of what is called insight mediation. to see things as they are and not to come up with any kind of construction.
If you think " why should I not be natural ? Why should I do all this ? "
Then the answer is actually this is not a learning process, it is an unlearning process. This is not about coming up with new theories and dogmas, but shedding all of them and just be.
Imagine you are sitting in your room and suddenly you find a thought " I have to go to the shop", then when you would get up and go, after that thought has ceased just observe may be for a moment there is no thought, just you walking down the street, this is what I call the natural state.
We are in that state naturally, we never need to learn to do it. All the theories of evolution and all theories of brain however great they are does not give us the way to happiness.
The only way is to shed all theories and just be. When we empty ourselves the essence emerges.
In case you want to read more on these lines I suggest the the book:
The way it is : Ajahn Sumedho
link:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-It-Is/dp/1870205111
I agree to it. That's what I am trying to say in nutshell. If we really understand that well, we would not be entangled. We would not even discuss things.
But the fact remains that we need to unlearn quite a bit......
We could discuss more...
what exist between two
what exist between two thoughts ? what is that supposed to mean. just because it takes the brain computer a split second to form thoughts while it processes information to form a thought means what ? That we are not our thoughts? how is that. It takes time for the chemicals and electrical impulses to compute the information needed that is it. That is what is between two thoughts. The processing of information. Nothing magical. Nothing transcending. Just lag while the organic computer processes information.
I will stop thinking one day. That day is when I will be dead. Till then I will be thinking.
If you believe that you need to stop thinking to be happy that is fine. I do not believe such a thing. I can be happy in my thoughts. I am not right now but I do not believe it is a thought pattern that has to be permanent. I just need to get my thoughts in better shape.
I always observe what I do. everything I do and see is recorded.
No it all comes down to people wanting people to think and be and do things like they do. Sorry from what I can tell I think differently than most people. Not going to change.
The gap points to the fact
The gap points to the fact that there is more to us than thoughts. I'd call it the background. Thoughts exist in something larger. We identify with the thoughts but there is something larger going on, and it is quite a bit more intelligent than our thoughts, if only for the simple fact that the "present tense" that emerges when we are having a thought about the past or future is more in touch with what is actually going on in time. It is possible to let the background come to the foreground.
There are not facts to any
There are not facts to any of it. why would the gap between thoughts point to something larger. It can simply be as I said and most likely is. Just the data be processed nothing more. Why does everyone "need" there to be something "larger" going on. This gap in thoughts is proof of nothing. It only proves one thing there are gaps in thought. Nothing need to be going on. I do not believe there is anything going on outside of my head. I do not need to believe something is going on. From what I can tell most people need something to make them feel special, better, more, there has to be more than this. Why ? it does not.
you can believe what ever you want. I said at the start this was my beliefs. I never stated they were facts. There are no absolutes and you can not prove your facts.
To seeker
That is fine. I am ok with
That is fine. I am ok with disagreeing. Sorry to do so on your post. I just get in attack mode in my first week after and O. You can go back and see it in my posting habits.
I although I will still believe and think the way I described. I will not be so aggressive about it and most likely not disrupt your postings.
sorry.
To seeker
There is no need to say sorry at all. There is nothing wrong in what you said. The most important thing is to hold your own individual ideas intact. I appreciate that.
Neither am I acting like a guru, I am more like a co passenger who is lovingly listening and sharing my thoughts.
All the best , I am with you dear.
To seeker
I feel comparing the brain to a computer ( however sophisticated) is a gross over simplification. Only when one thinks about a linear cause-effect relationship it makes sense. If one sees a never ending cycle of cause and effects operating in nature one would not be able to explain anything in the sense " this controls that and that controls this " kind of explanation.
I used to wonder what is the boundary of the universe when I am small. Then I realized that the universe need not have a boundary.
The patterns that I expect the universe to follow is the pattern that I have seen during my life time. All things that I saw had boundaries so by induction one would say even the universe has to have a boundary. But it need not ! It can be beyond the law of Induction.
Nature itself is enigmatic and boundless( including us who are a part of it) , trying to fit it to any model we perceive could be convenient to some extent, but need not be true.
The "computer model" of the brain helps us to analyze many things, true I am not denying that. But it is a a very constrained view for nature itself is not comprehensive through intellectual methods.
Having said all that, I still believe that I and you can communicate at a much deeper level beyond the realm of agreeing not agreeing
Much deeper ? may be I mean much simpler
well I guess you may be
well I guess you may be right about the communicating on another level.
That was a very well constructed insult I believe. calling me simple minded.
:)
Seeker seeker, I have no such thoughts at all ! I feel a hug is a hug.
The reason why I said " simpler" is the following :
If I say deeper, you would feel that I am referring to something transcendental, and that's the reason I repalced the word to simpler.
No intention to insult: such a thought does not even cross my mind.
i am getting sick of hearing
i am getting sick of hearing that. no shit i am in my head where else would i be. i sick of all this enlightenment talk. as i have said before it is just another way to escape and hide.
To seeker
then may be we need to leave you and go away....and come when you call us back.
IMHO
I think people confuse their inner-monologue with genuine thought. Inner-monologue or self-talk comes after thought and they are both separate from the perception of those phenomenon. Feelings usually come first, which are perceived, thoughts arise, which condense in to self-talk. Self-talk can then be depressive or aggresive, which is again perceived, and creates more feelings and emotions and a cycle continues.
The cycle is broken by being aware of and watching for the pattern.
The brain is a network not a single computer. The experience of life comes in data packets. The more we are aware of our surroundings the more data in those packets that can be perceived. Consciousness is like a stream of data packets, it appears to be a constant flow but if you can feel it and observe you can notice how it is made up of individual packets. You can literally notice your own brain ticking over.
One week without p and m
Successfully through one week, most symptoms have subsided except an occasional increased beating of the heart and a slightl anxiety as if something nice is about to happen. A dangerous trigger which pulled me back into porn in the past, but this time I am stronger in : wisdom, will and support( through this site).
I need a hug Marnia....
*big hug*
A week! That's great. It's amazing how insistent our neurochemistry can be, eh?
Thanks for the hug.
Thank you so much and a hug back
Yesterday night I failed.
yesterday I had this feeling of being full and also the semen was flowing while urinating since two days.
So I masturbated and had an o ! I viewed a bit of porn as well.
Today again I viewed porn and masturbated again with o.
Marnia I need your help.
This has been such a long struggle to come out of this and the recovery seems to be eternally delayed.
Strangely as I have described earlier, there is no shame or guilt of any kind. But a sense of total defeat. What next ?
( However observed that the pull to seek porn is considerably lower. )
I read your recent post, but any personal tips ?
Yes,
If you masturbate, don't use porn. Just focus on the feelings, and set a schedule. How long did you just go? Use that as your schedule for a while, until your brain settles down. I'm sure you see that if your "need" was to ejaculate, you wouldn't need porn to do that. Porn itself, the rush of the extra hot images, is the addiction for many people, and part of the addiction for others.
Remember, porn is extreme stimulation. Our ancestors' brains never had to cope with such a thing. Masturbation, on the other hand, was probably not at all unusual
. So stick to what your brain is made for. Just gradually try to get it on *your* schedule, and then it should be fairly easy to move those orgasms to time with your wife if you don't want to use karezza-style lovemaking.
Time for a "fresh cycle."
Thans Marnia
I observed a few things about myself.
1. I used to be a martial arts student once upon a time.
Now I don't have any kind of physical exercise.
2. I like to socialize
But I a working in a place where socializing is close to zero.
3. My wife is concentrating a lot on our two kids, though we love each other a lot there is almost no sex between us.
Are these three things killing me ?
Well they aren't helping ;-)
But it sounds like you can do things to make changes in all three categories.
Although sex from your wife would be ideal, do you at least engage in daily bonding behaviors? They can furnish a lot of what intercourse with her could...and they may even make her feel more like intercourse as well.
http://www.reuniting.info/lazy_way_to_stay_in_love
Can you take up martial arts again? Even daily yoga helps a lot.
Hi
The first one is the easiest. I do take some time off to do some crazy stuff. Recently I had done some motor bike stunts.
I am trained in yoga as well, I used to teach yoga ! I also was a badminton player.
I wonder how did I stop doing all this.
Right now second one is almost impossible, I am thinking of a job change I guess that would help me.
And yes, I did try bonding behaviors with my wife and she has also liked it, it would take sometime for us to tune I guess.
I think there may be an easy explanation
for why you stopped those activities.
As for bonding behaviors, they need to be daily...even if only for a few minutes...to be effective. They aren't "cumulative."
Maybe if you sort out the sports and smooching, the job won't seem so unbearable.
*big hug*
Self the saviour
Oneself, indeed, is one's saviour, for what other saviour would there be? With oneself well controlled one obtains a saviour difficult to find.
-Buddha.
Hmmm...
It may be there's more than one path. One based on self-sufficiency and one based on balance achieved with a mate by carefully balancing male and female for a higher end. It may also be that today, with so much extreme sexual stimulation at our finger tips, the second path is the one that most of us will have to master if we want to achieve stable balance.
Not that meditation and solo practices can't help, mind you!
Are you open to considering that your wife is part of the equation for your spiritual aims?
hard to answer....
Yes I totally agree.
I do not know the answer.
Do I have an oracle for this ?
Atcually...
Yes I do feel so, but I have no clue how to solve that part of the equation.
Any chance that she would try a
program of several weeks of playful exchanges that only take a few minutes a night? You could see how you both feel at the end of the time.
You've probably read "The Lazy Way to Stay in Love," but you might also want to read this one, because you could present the idea as a way to ease stress. "De-stress With Your Mate Using Bonding Behaviors"
http://www.reuniting.info/de-stress_with_your_mate_using_bonding_behaviors
Note this list of 31 simple activities for couples: http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/Bonding.Behaviors.pdf
I'm sure that if your wife knew how vital such activities might be for you she would willingly do them. Many spouses recoil from intimacy because their partners become insatiable and they give up hope of trying to satisfy them.
Both problems need to be addressed. The hungry partner needs more affectionate contact, and the other partner needs to know that intimacy isn't going to lead to being devoured (because the hungry partner is becoming less and less satisfied due to the way he/she is managing their sexual desire). Hence the "two pedals" I talk about in Cupid.
Marnia
When she goes to sleep she is tired, she feeds the baby when she goes to sleep and he will not leave her, the elder son sleeps next her and he would be awake
I literally find no time to spend with her !
*sigh*
I'm sorry. I will say, however, that it only seems to take a few pebbles to start the avalanche with bonding behaviors. It's not unreasonable for you to request a few minutes of time each day for help with de-stressing. If you make sure it's something she'll also find relaxing, you may find she soon likes it. Could you ask for a 5-minute meditation with her? You could sit facing each other and hold hands or lie on the bed and hold hands. Just take deep breaths and then let them go.
You could make it fun, make it a joke, whatever, but ask her to do it. Once she realizes she feels better, it will get easier. Maybe you could have a word with her mother or sister to help persuade her that it's important for the whole family that the bond between you remain strong.
None of these suggestions may be any good, but I'm sure there are good ones out there. Have you asked the oracle?? http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/inner_wisdom_oracle
Marnia did you do something ?
It looked like you came and whispered something in my wife's ears !
She has been responding we spent quite bit of time together in bonding behaviors and we did make love too in a gentle way. I had to take a break in the office hours ( lunch time extended, my office hours are flexible) to do that !
I told her about you and the site.
*Big Hug *
*big grin*
That's great news. Very clever of you to take a break from work, too. You could be solving two problems this way.
Actually, I think your strong desire to find a solution is showing up in your life. Well done! I'm very, very happy for you. And believe me, she needs your loving intimacy just as much as you need hers. You're doing her a favor.
Be ready, because healing never seems to be linear.
Just know that she may feel the effects of any orgasm in a delayed way. (I notice it more during week two.) So even if she seems to pull away again, don't conclude the situation is hopeless. Just means you have to start over.
Remember...even a little daily affection goes a long way toward encouraging that primitive, subconscious desire for closeness. We find it best not to have intercourse every day (even without orgasm), because it seems to be important not to fall into goal-oriented affection. So maybe you could come up with a schedule for "lunchtime loving," so you both have it to look forward to.
Ahhh, babies and a family
Ahhh, babies and a family bed.
Why not spoon/cuddle while breastfeeding?
I think Gentle Karezza is totally possible without waking a baby, and is a nice way to go to sleep. A king sized bed helps a *lot*, as does having that bed on the floor.
While babies are not cats - our cat used to leave the bed when his sleep was 'disturbed'
. Now he just sleeps on the other pillow, because Karezza's so gentle.
Quizure
Nursing does not diminish the beauty of a woman's breasts; it enhances their charm by making them look lived in and happy. ~Robert A. Heinlein