Difference between ejaculating and orgasm?

Submitted by Invictus on
Printer-friendly version

I had a question but didn't know where to put it, Im not sure if it has been answered before I tried a search but couldn't find any information that could answer it. I was contemplating the difference between ejaculating and orgasm? If they are one and the same, or are they two separate events that just correlate and happen at the same time, and can one be realized without the other. I have read about it but would like to hear other peoples direct takes on the question.

Cheers.

They are separate. You can

They are separate. You can orgasm without ejaculating. Can you ejaculate without orgasm? You could leak, but more?

You can orgasm without ejaculating by holding back ejaculation and redirecting it inward (the hard way and some say not healthy for the prostate in the long run) or by relaxing so that you orgasm independently.

Hey Freedom

Quote:

by relaxing so that you orgasm independently

can you describe what that is like? can you do it? does it initiate the dopamine cycle?
My experience with "holding back ejaculation and redirecting it inward" is really sucky...unsatisfactory in all ways. It was just like ejaculating but nothing came out. Granted, my intention was to not cum so I could stay hard so Izzy had time to catch up. Perhaps if my intention were different the experience might have been as well. I don't like edging. However, if I find myself there I will try changing my breath pattern (slower, deeper) and my intention (to what?). I'd rather ejaculate than lock and hold.
Invictus, did you ever follow-up on your other post?
http://www.reuniting.info/node/5705

It might be similar to your

It might be similar to your BWASP. I'm not able to do it on command. I don't yet know enough about how it works for me. I'm going to figure it out eventually.

I would guess this triggers dopamine just as ejaculatory orgasm. Both are in the mind.

Dopamine

I think the dope cycle has a lot to with desire.
Now that I've seperated the BWASP out from the EjO, I feel they very different. Seeking Ejaculatory Orgasm involves anticipation and build-up of a lot of tension/sexual energy. The couple of times I've ejaculated without touching myself, the tension and intention was huge. EjO includes a fascination with the sensations in my penis. If I use porn, the need for more and varied stimulus just increases and I feel out of control. If I think Izzy and I are going to do it, and we don't, I'm really bummed out and thinking of divorce.
I simply allow a BWASP to happen. The pathway is relaxation. It is immediately physical (abdominal) and my penis need not be involved at all. The mental attitude is one of allowing. I don't have to think or fantisize about sex. I don't have to create or make anything happen. I can do just one jolt. I do it sometimes as a test. Usually it's 8-9 convulsions (who's counting?) but I can foster them along if I want (one time for 10 minutes). I have complete control. There is no feeling of inevitablity. Porn is not part of it, at all. I am much more relaxed about what happens with my Isadora in bed.
BWASP always ends in satisfaction and stillness. It's peaceful. I suspect I've been mixing BWASP with EjO to get a similar feeling. EjO brings a whole host of feelings. With Izzy I frequently feel knocked out and I want to sleep. EjO has been my drug of choice for a very long time. Masturbation was a way to relieve tension of all sorts....bored, masturbate....anxious, masturbate.....sad, masturbate....jacked up on porn, masturbate. So EjO was most often a release of tension of some sort.

Perhaps there is a tense and

Perhaps there is a tense and relaxed (BWASP or similar) orgasm. BWASP is pleasurable. Doesn't that mean dopamine? Karezza means dopamine, but it is balanced by other neurochemicals. Perhaps BWASP is similar.

Good question. Gary, any

Good question. Gary, any studies that look at children separated from mothers that track the child's relaxation levels? Is part of the orgasm problem that karezza eliminates tension related? Dopamine without anxiety might somehow be different.

Hi Invictus

Male orgasm and ejaculation are separate biological functions. As I understand it - if stimulation continues past the man’s point of inevitability a cascade effect occurs. The neurotransmitter Oxytocin is released, inducing violent contractions of the prostate gland and urethra forcefully expelling semen. At the same time the neurotransmitter Prolactin is released which represses the euphoric effect of Dopamine. The near instantaneous shifts in effective neurotransmitters combine to create the sensation of orgasm and release. When playing at the edge a number of effects have been observed. You can have an orgasm without an ejaculation, and can discharge seminal fluid without having an orgasm. When investigating the phenomenon of male orgasm from a sacred sexuality perspective it is important to understand that once the release of Prolactin is triggered (whether ejaculation takes place or not) the pleasure effects of Dopamine are then inhibited and the fun is over for the man. The production of nitric oxide ceases and the man rapidly loses his erection and sense of arousal and enters into the refractory period and is subject to all the negative fallout as described in the Coolidge Effect that facilitates disconnect from his partner. The beauty of taking conscious control of your sexuality is that you can manipulate biochemistry for your benefit and the betterment of your relationship – and get more pleasure in the process. A man’s dopamine levels steadily rise from the point of initial arousal and continue to climb the closer he gets to orgasm. This is nature’s way to insure the act continues until the semen is released. If the release is delayed, the body instinctively increases the concentration of pleasure endorphins persistently in the pursuit of the orgasm. If orgasm is denied, but stimulation is maintained that keeps the man simmering just under the semen release point you can trick his body into producing and discharging more of the pleasure endorphins than are ever normally released during an ejaculatory orgasm. Once the serum levels of these pleasure endorphins reach a certain saturation threshold a state of euphoria takes place that can be described as a “whole body experience” or “Tantric Waves of Bliss”, etc. as the ancient practitioners described in sacred sexuality texts. These “whole body orgasms” are as delicious as “burst orgasms” (for me anyways) and since ejaculatory orgasm is no longer the primary goal you can consciously decide to engage in activities as long as you want to, as long as your partner requires for her to maximize her own pleasure and endorphin lift, spend many long minutes even hours engaging in relaxed Karrezza sharing exquisite pleasure in the most intimate way possible – and it doesn’t end until you want it to end. So many delicious possibilities – remember male orgasm is not the pinnacle of pleasure – but the end of it.
Regards,
Virgil

.

Virgil wrote:

you can trick his body into producing and discharging more of the pleasure endorphins than are ever normally released during an ejaculatory orgasm.

this might be creating tolerance as well, like exogenous opiate does

Wonderfully said

I'm going to make sure my beloved sees this as this is how he describes it, as well.

Euphoria is almost impossible to describe, but for us, all I know is that what seems like 20 minutes can actually be two hours and you are stunned to look at the clock and see just how long you've been connected (this has happened to us many, many times).

Last weekend, we slightly woke up around 6:30 a.m. and my sweetie said, "Let's plug in and go back to sleep" and so we did and woke up two hours later still plugged in!! And while I may have gone in and out of sleep, I was never *not* aware of his penis generating energy inside me. We both woke up so refreshed and ready to roll!~

rediscovered

Yes

That is a great description~~although I think the yang I get from him is actually a fourth dimension all on its own~~it feels like love and sex and energy and comfort and healing all coming into me at once from him in the most warm, delicious way imaginable. The male penis, when used in this way, is such a beautiful gift to women! A resting penis gives a woman a million times more sensations than a pounding one...

rediscovered

Well get the word out to

Well get the word out to women not to ratchet up the heat. Otherwise, it is too much work for us. How much of your changes have been mental shifts versus physical ones? I think differently about sex. There are mental shifts. I've got no input really on the physical side. I do think differently about my penis and it feels different to me. Hot sex exists, but seems inferior...almost the same as masturbation. I'm a bit puzzled as to whether I'll manage to skip over that entirely. Most of the time I think it is possible, but then part of me starts feeling that I'd somehow be missing out. Some of the literature says it isn't possible to skip hot sex until it is out of one's system.

How does he feel from that? Is the male perspective the same on this?

It's not nearly as good~

Every once in a great while we will have a "quickie" for fun and both of us agree that it doesn't feel anywhere near as good as slow sex.

But it's good to go back and forth sometimes just to see what you are *not* missing~~our favorite times are the times where we are just blissfully unaware of everything and just lying there together.

Spending 2-3 hours inside a vagina I think would be fulfilling enough for a man to not feel like he's missing anything? My man is 52 years old, though, perhaps it's different for younger men...I wouldn't know about that. You will have to be our on-the-scene reporter, Freedom!!

rediscovered

Lol. Age matters. The books

Lol. Age matters. The books claim the desire for hot sex has to be worked out of the system until each person is ready. Apparently it can take women longer because of the internalized hurt from hot sex. Women store things differently which I think Hotspring alluded to. The flip side is that I'm more likely to mate with a less experienced female who might have less hurt and can get on board faster.

I sort of think of it in my mind that way. I don't reject hot sex thoughts. Just observe and let them teach me what they may. Reminds me too about why the rest of the time I think differently.

Interesting

Quote:

the neurotransmitter Prolactin is released which represses the euphoric effect of Dopamine

'cause I'm usually pretty stoned (for days) after Ejaculatory Orgasm.

Quote:

Oxytocin is released, inducing violent contractions of the prostate gland and urethra forcefully expelling semen

so with the BWASP no oxytocin is released

Quote:

Once the serum levels of these pleasure endorphins reach a certain saturation threshold a state of euphoria takes place that can be described as a “whole body experience” or “Tantric Waves of Bliss”, etc. as the ancient practitioners described in sacred sexuality texts

this seems to be an argument for edging. I know what euphoria is. I feel it when in my Beloved's arms and my mind is out of the way. And I feel it after orggasm. “Tantric Waves of Bliss”, I want to know what it looks like. What are these waves? muscle contractions? energy motion? Please Virgil give me a picture.

Euphoria

I checked it out this AM. I misspoke. I feel calm, still, and relaxed after BWASP, not euphoric. I confused that state with the drifty floaty feeling in my body. For me, euphoria is very happy and maybe a little manic. AND the feelings I have post sex with My Beloved are euphoric and that is most likely due to the loving contact time (BB's) we have put in.

wow

thanks for all your responses guys. especially thanks to professor virgil that was quite educational, i feel enlightened now. lol

I have done a lot of experimenting with “Edge Play”

but I think my take is a bit unconventional. When most describe edging they vigorously push stimulation and the building of tension right up to the point of inevitability and then forcibly hold back – often having to interrupt the action by stopping stimulation and/or using the “three finger method” etc. to hold back ejaculatory orgasm. This is ultimately counterproductive because it is difficult to fully enjoy the experience when you are fighting your own body.
The key is relaxation. Think about what happens when you go for an extended period of time (three to five days or even more) without having an orgasm – you become increasingly “horny” and even the slightest caress “feels” exquisitely pleasurable.
Why does this happen? Because extreme endorphin cycling from regular orgasms desensitizes the brain/body and when you go without for a sufficient length of time the body “resets” itself to its “natural” state of maximum sensitivity and dopamine receptiveness. This enables you to get the maximum “perceived” pleasure from any given stimulation. When I visualize “edging” for me it is more like “blowing up a balloon” as my goal is to slowly fill the container of my body with as much delicious sensual energy as I can hold without “popping” my balloon via orgasm. This is done in a state of relaxation and letting the pleasure come to you. When you engage in intimate activities with your partner from this mindset you learn to “live in the present” and truly savor every delicious moment. Play time just naturally expands into timeless bliss, and as Rediscovered alluded to earlier “quickies” pale in comparison. You find that you no longer want to “pop” your balloon and let the energy escape (thus ending the pleasure). For me athletic “friction sex” followed by a few seconds of male pattern “burst” orgasm cannot even begin to compare to the truly mind bending pleasure of spending an hour or more inside my wife’s vagina. You literally lose your mind to the exquisite sensations and it is not uncommon for you to think only a few minutes have passed when in reality hours have gone by. Endorphins continue to rise the longer you extend the experience as the body instinctively pursues the semen release point and eventually a saturation threshold is reached that triggers the “tantric” or “waves of bliss” experience. Surfing the “waves” in this manner is the most pleasurable experience I have ever had, and illustrates why Karrezza like activity has such appeal.
Regards,
Virgil

Isn't that true

Virgil wrote:

it is not uncommon for you to think only a few minutes have passed when in reality hours have gone by.

Isn't that true of porn users too? Karezza may also be superstimulating even if it activates some neutralizing chemicals or promotes bonding.

Hear! Hear!

Well said Virgil

Quote:

Endorphins continue to rise the longer you extend the experience as the body instinctively pursues the semen release point and eventually a saturation threshold is reached that triggers the “tantric” or “waves of bliss” experience. Surfing the “waves”

you speak to my dreams