♥Internal Orgasm (old thread)

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I am interested in hearing from anyone who has actually experienced an internal, rather than external orgasm.

I've been able to bring my orgasmic awareness into more parts of my body, and have experienced the valley orgasm of many waves of high orgasmic bliss, but I have not experienced actually bringing the orgasm into the central channel in such a way that the energy does not leak out again.

Marnia, forgive me, I realize that the sexual relating you are promoting goes far beyond the topic of orgasm. But I'm curious, since many of the ancient texts describe bringing the ecstatic energy up the central channel. You reccomend not going too close near the red zone. I am wondering if the approach you suggest is different from those of traditions that say the orgasmic energy can be brought into all of the centers of awareness. Perhaps they do so by not getting into the red zone and bringing their ecstatic awareness up? Are these the same processes being described?

Had Internal Orgasm

I'm a guy an recently experienced internal orgasm (self learned by accident). It is actually very natural and not needing to force it happen.

I practise satipatthana meditation during a retreat which is an awareness practise of the mind and body. At every moment we note the feelings or mental thought that arises. Result is greater awareness of the body and mind processes. During the retreat days we have to be abstinence from all sexual conduct and thoughts. If the thoughts arise we have to note it. I knew that keeping celibacy long enough the sexual energy would arise and I would have to learn to "note", aware and acknowledge it so it would pass. Without resorting to my old ways of using porn.

On the 12th day it became strong and uncomfortable for the body. I was distracted by desiring to look at the body of our female yogis. Sexual thoughts and images appear in my mind when trying to meditate and delighting to indulge in them. I tried again to resume my meditation be aware at the moment and the pelvic floor muscles naturally squeezes itself. The muscle is responsible for erecting the penis and when pressed, simulating the g spot. So when i sat up straight (not lending) on the plastic chair, the pelvic muscle presses slightly on the chair which assists in the simulation and release.

So when i notice the body natural tenancy to squeeze the muscle i noted that the body craves for pleasant feelings/sensation. I had to keep on mentally noting and out of the sudden the muscle starts to squeeze more furiously that sent the sexual energy up through the whole body. The energy was so strong and powerful after it had passed i felt the whole ball/aura surrounding me (about 10 inches distance).
The sensation that passed through was little painful/spiky, also pleasant and lust. Sexual confidence is also result.

After a two hour break i continued to meditate and the body was still trying to attach/grasp on to the pleasant sensation that arises earlier on.

Good Compilation of Solo Practices

It is not similar as it doesn't deal with handling of sexual urges and energy. I find the Tantra practise of Tibetan Buddhism useful in understanding how to manage desire and pleasure.

You have great information out there on the old and new brain habits and the bonding love making. I think this kind of understanding stablize and set the mind straight.

Thanks

My husband is especially interested in the new brain science; I'm especially interested in the historical and other footprints that suggest there's a way to manage sexual energy for better results. But both of us find both aspects interesting...hence the creation of this site. smiley

Day 24 - Battle With The Mind

I find myself coming back to learn more. From where i left off from my first post please read on.

In my meditation practice we note all the objects (mental or physical) that arises objectively (without liking/disliking). When pleasant sensation arises note "pleasant feelings". Not have the attitude of wanting it to stay (that’s craving) or rejecting it (that’s aversion), and if we do not know its happening (that’s delusion). When it arises and i note it, my mind will be on the sensation. It may intensify for a moment then pass, leaving the mind to peaceful state. Or if I’m not aware and didn't note, then unconsciously it will snowball disturbing the mind and cause bodily acts. It can go like this: Contact (eye with sensual object) ->pleasant feeling->desire->craving->wanting->grasping->wholesome/ unwholesome acts.

So having encountered such powerful experience, the mind keeps clinging to the nice sensation. As i mentioned, hours after the encounter the mind kept thinking back going thru the experience. So i noted on the strong clinging, after awhile it passes away. Mind settles down but immediately, sadness arises. Like a baby denied of its wants. So noted sadness while it passes. Not done yet, as the sexual energy that rose and infused every part of the body, the mind is now in a very different kind state. For days i was restless, with motivation to interact with girls and easily triggered and flushed when i saw ladies with great body walked pass me.

Therefore when i went back on day 17 and did my research, reading through this website, the mind did indulge in many of the ideas here that are new to me. Wanting to try the techniques the mind already gone thru imagination and cling to it. So now restlessness gets even worst. I tried to meditate but awareness was weak. Mind was not sharp to catch any of the defilements. Day 20 i decided to go back for mediation retreat.

For the next 3 days with basically nothing to see, the mind is as restless (at least in the retreat restlessness seems to be the only thing on the mind). Can't mediate, can't focus on my primary object (the abdomen). i would fall a sleep or mind go into wandering mode. Feeling was mainly unhappy due to self denial. Throughout the day, the mind starts to have unwholesome thoughts. Like commanding and manipulating women to obediently fulfilling my wishes, all due to my past unwholesome actions (kamma). You can see the mind here had gone twisted like a criminal.

I had a wet dream the very next morning before i woke up. Were my first and no nudity, just feeling and a relief of pleasant sensation at the groin area and the passing of sexual energy downwards out of the body. I immediately stop the mind from escalating and woke up. But there had already little sticky discharge from the penis afterwards when I checked. I sit up to meditate, remembering of the teacher's instruction that even pleasant feelings can be hindrances. Then i realised those 3 days all the thoughts and images, the mind was still clinging on to pleasant sensation like a magnet. The excessive sexual energy that drained might have help. I noted the pleasant sensation when thoughts/images appear again, the pelvic muscles squeeze so hard for another nice feeling at the groin, continue noting until the mind was light and calm and settles down.

Now the mind is peaceful and when contemplating on the unwholesome thoughts to act unwholesome - only comment is crazy.

Thanks for sharing your experience

Finding the right balance with sexual energy is quite the challenge. Things that center us are also improving brain balance, which can make cravings less demanding. And over time, the cravings and wet dreams may naturally subside.

But, honestly, for some of us, self-sufficiency isn't our mission this lifetime - even it we find the idea appealing. Learning how to exchange our sexual energy in such a way that it doesn't throw us into a cycle of increasing desire - and instead is channeled into a synergy that heightens the spiritual awareness of both partners is our mission. It's quite challenging, but also fun to learn about. smiley

I'm not saying whether this 'path of relationship' is for you. I'm just saying that if you're fighting yourself too hard, you can create problems. Here's a passage from one of my favorite books, the Hua Hu Ching:

Unless the mind, body, and spirit are equally developed and fully integrated, no spiritual peak or state of enlightenment can be sustained.
This is why extremist religions and ideologies do not bear fruit.

When the mind and spirit are forced into unnatural austerities or adherence to external dogmas, the body grows sick and weak and becomes a traitor to the whole being.
When the body is emphasized to the exclusion of the mind and spirit, they become like trapped snakes: frantic, explosive, and poisonous to one's person.
All such imbalances inevitably lead to exhaustion and expiration of the life force.

True self-cultivation involves the holistic integration of mind, body, and spirit.
Balancing yin and yang through the various practices of the Integral Way, one achieves complete unity within and without.
This manifests in the world as perfect equilibrium, and perfect grace.

Now, if you're a lawyer like me, that probably sounds like karezza is a bad idea smiley. So let me add another passage, which makes it clear that (for some of us) the path to balance lies in reuniting male and female with gentle, non-procreative sex. (One of the practices of the Integral way is careful cultivation of sexual energy.)

A person's approach to sexuality is a sign of his level of evolution.
Unevolved persons practice ordinary sexual intercourse.
Placing all emphasis upon the sexual organs, they neglect the body's other organs and systems.
Whatever physical energy is accumulated is summarily discharged, and the subtle energies are similarly dissipated and disordered. [Ripples in reward circuitry??]
It is a great backward leap.

For those who aspire to the higher realms of living, there is angelic dual cultivation.
Because every portion of the body, mind, and spirit yearns for the integration of yin and yang, angelic intercourse is led by the spirit rather than the sexual organs.

Where ordinary intercourse is effortful, angelic cultivation is calm, relaxed, quiet, and natural.
Where ordinary intercourse unites sex organs with sex organs, angelic cultivation unites spirit with spirit, mind with mind, and every cell of one body with every cell of the other body.
Culminating not in dissolution but in integration, it is an opportunity for a man and woman to mutually transform and uplift each other into the realm of bliss and wholeness.

The interplay of yin and yang within the womb of the Mysterious Mother creates the expansion and contraction of nature.
Although the entire universe is created out of this reproductive dance, it is but a tiny portion of her being.
Her heart is the Universal Heart, and her mind the Universal Mind.

The reproductive function is also a part of human beings.
Because yin and yang are not complete within us as individuals, we pair up to integrate them and bring forth new life.
Although most people spend their entire lives following this biological impulse, it is only a tiny portion of our beings as well.
If we remain obsessed with seeds and eggs, we are married to the fertile reproductive valley of the Mysterious Mother but not to her immeasurable heart and all-knowing mind.

If you wish to unite with her heart and mind, you must integrate yin and yang within and refine their fire upward.
Then you have the power to merge with the whole being of the Mysterious Mother.
This is what is known as true evolution.

Just some food for thought, since you're exploring a spiritual path.

Thanks Marnia

You truly understand where i'm at now. Indeed i'm looking out for a balance Integral way to cultivate and harness the healing power of sexual energy. On further understanding the Karezza way, it looks sound and good. I'm actually open to the idea of it.

Time to dwell deeper into the understanding of sexuality and in the mean while if the 3rd cycle comes, i will be very interested to see how it turns out to be.

I'm afraid I can't describe

I'm afraid I can't describe internal orgasm because I have not experienced it, which is why I have posted this stream, in hopes of hearing from anyone who has.

The valley orgasm, as I described, is not the same thing as internalizing it - but it is definately what could be seen as hovering continually in the "red zone."

Since Marnia draws from a lot of esoteric traditions that comment on this capacity to bring the orgasm upwards, I'm wondering if this is compatible with her teachings or not, since it seems she reccomends staying away from the orgasmic state. Can you comment on this Marnia?

This may just come down to a discussion about semantics. I think we could just as easily describe orgasmic energy as ecstatic energy. Something can feel orgasmic and ecstatic without leading to what we would technically call orgasm. So I'm wondering if the practitioners of tantra and other arts get into the red zone or if what they mean by internalizing the energy really just means bringing this ecstatic (orgasmic) energy into many different fields of awareness - perhaps before it's reached that edge. Tho I have seen certain tantric texts say specifically that an internal "orgasm" is experienced.

From what little I know about Tibetan Tantra, reality is seen as a continuum (that is what Tantra is literally translated as). So I see that the tantric approach is similar to Marnia's in that the process of relaxing into the constantly available continuum of ecstatic energy is the artform. The empahsis on generosity and nourishing intent that is the foundation of the exchanges Marnia proposes seem very aligned with Bodhicitta awareness - doing everything for the benefit of other beings.

It is this emphasis on generosity and nourishment - this shift in focus that I appreciate most about Marnia's teachings. The description of the potential neurological changes resulting from orgasm are convincing, but I also think that many of the benefits she describes could come from the shift in attention towards more generosity and selflessness in sex.

I think the main problem in these considerations comes down to the limitations of language in providing a common frame of reference for experience. We can all say we know what conventional orgasm is, but we could also see it in a broader way as any kind of ecstatic peak - and life can be filled with many varieties and subtleties of peaks if we are able to overcome our dulled senses enough to notice them.

While studying massage, I've learned that most people are so disconnected from their bodies that they think they want hard, deep tissue work just to feel anything at all. But when they are touched tenderly and gently they are brought into a new awareness of how sensitive and alive they are. I think orgasm and sensuality are the same: perhaps we have become so desensitized that we need something really strong and obvious (like orgasm) to feel touched deeply and affected. This may not be necessary at all.

All good points, as usual

The real test of any approach is, "does it lead to alienation between the couple over time, or does it bring them into greater, effortless harmony?" Much of today's tantra in the West involves seeing the goddess in every partner, and churning through a lot of partners. To me, this pattern suggests that the dopamine cycle ('designed' by evolution to encourage us to have offspring with different mates) is definitely at work. I suspect there's a lot of "red zone" sex going on in such circles.

For the record, I don't think the Valley Orgasm is a "red zone" experience. Have a look at a book called "Sexual energy Ecstasy" by Dorfman(?). It speaks of love making styles that lead to "TROs" or "total relaxation orgasm." I think this is what the Valley Orgasm of the Taoists is. There is no effort, and no red zone. It's like stepping into an altered state...and it just happens sometimes (usually when you're not bent on "getting" to orgasm). I once found myself describing the experience as "standing under a waterfall." It was exhilarating, yet we weren't doing anything.

There are many wonderful, insightful things that you say that I don't comment on, Hotspring. That's not because I think they're less important, but because you've already expressed them better than I could. smiley

You said it. I can't even

You said it. I can't even count the number of times I've bumped into men recently who have all the lingo down about "worshipping the goddess(es)", etc, but who seem in the end to be using popular spiritual terminology to sleep with as many women as possible and perpetuate what is really just the same old agenda. Spirituality, like anything else, can be appropriated for any means the ego may need it for.

I've experienced something of what you described - the total relaxation orgasm. However, the buildup of intimacy to that point of total relaxation went on a pretty conventional course - we started with a building, and then slowed it down to a point where there was no striving at all, just total presence and relaxation in the inherent polarity between us. So it didn't start off through total relaxation, though I think that it is possible to be relaxed within sexual tension. I think that the best sex I've experienced has been both active and receptive AT ONCE, and I don't think they are necessarily incompatible, or that sex that has an active element in it necessarily has a grasping element or has to reach the red zone. Seems its a fusion to me, a real play in the dynamic, and the relaxation comes from easily and comfortably being in both states without letting either one take over.

Just my two cents.

For the record, I've been having some great makeout sessions, cuddling, and snuggling. Even in these seemingly simple exchanges, things can get into the "red zone' - when you just "want to get it." I think all forms of affection can be just like making love, and they all can lead to that energy that just wants to get to the next, jucier part, rather than revel in how good it is at the moment.

Even eating food, we often are thinking of the next bite rather than enjoying the one in our mouths.

True worship is in the eye of the receiver perhaps :-)

Yes, lots of sexual energy can flow without intercourse. Ultimately I think we may all learn that it is this unseen energy that truly nourishes us, whether or not genitals are called into action. This hints at the inherent marvels in male and female energy, if you ask me. We might be valuing the wrong things altogether when we humans get too focused on bodies.

Our work is not trying to make sexual arousal wrong, by the way. We're just trying to say that it has some inherent potential pitfalls because it's possible to get dopamine soaring so high that it kicks in a period of low dopamine, or decreased dopamine receptor activity. That's what shifts perception. When low dopamine makes one feel needy, or makes one "need space," one's perception of one's partner can shift for the worse.

Which brings me to another point I meant to make in response to one of your posts a few days ago when I was still on the road. You said something to the effect that the key seemed to be selflessness rather than avoiding orgasm. In a sense I agree. However, the sensation of low dopamine is what makes us feel selfish, antisocial, uneasy, needy, etc. And in my experience, even being fully aware that those post-passion sensations were purely neurochemical, and not really brought on by events going on outside of me no matter how things looked, I found myself reacting irritably or with hurt feelings...just as I had before I knew all this. smiley In short, the only way I could keep my perception reasonably clear was to learn to make love without orgasm.

Apparently some people are better than this than I am. I think there are couples who do base their marriages on selflessness, and that their unions tend to be more harmonious as a result, even with conventional sex in the mix. However, I think there are many people like me, who really have to strive for equilibrium in their sex lives in order to behave like the angels who they really are. smiley

I like to think that in the end, this practice is also a spiritual practice, and that some of us may have opted for extra sensitivity to this phenomenon precisely so that we would reach higher. Too soon to say for sure, although I feel like I've racked up far less rotten karma since I've been practicing this, and I seem to have more time in my life to help others, too, so in a sense it's already working to a degree.

New Relationship

I'm in a relationship now where I'm the boss in sexual matters, because I express more authority about it. Anyway, he finds it worth it to hear me out. So, it's been good. I'm happy. I have been in command of the sexual energy, that electro-chemical-magnetic current. Very keen not to spend it whenever possible (not always the case). The wisdom of this idea becomes apparent very quickly.

xo G