Young single virgin seeking assistance

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Submitted by Beefheart on
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Hi everyone! My story isn’t very special but it is candid.

~~~

I’m 22 years old, male and a virgin. Bet you have built a picture already, but don’t close just yet. I am extremely confident in some areas (I am a singer), but I get social anxiety and have a huge fear of rejection -- I can be very friendly and talkative, but when any woman shows a slight interest in me I panic, I cannot do anything my heart wills me to! Maybe if I was 15 that’d be cute -- pretty frustrating at 22.

I am not a porn addict. (That’s nothing short of miraculous considering my past occupation as a horny teenager.) But I believed masturbation was natural stress-relief and I was pretty addicted to that! I look back on my teenage years and can hardly believe how fatigued I felt all the time. I was too scared of rejection to admit how lonely I was to anyone, so I’d just stay at home, occasionally locking the door for privacy.

(in truth, I’m certain that fear of vulnerability is a wider national flaw for us in the UK. You learn very quickly that the worst thing you can be to anyone –especially your friends– is a burden. We’re not nearly as liberated a nation as we think we are.)

Well! Once I gave up orgasm 37 days ago, I immediately felt calmer, happier – just better in every way. Amazingly my musicianship became more fluid and I started getting chest hair (!!) after one week. Nobody told me that may happen! But that was Step #1. Now I must confront my shyness if I am to lead any sort of life.

Nerves and Women

Firstly I don’t meet many eligible women, so feel free to chastise me on that. But here’s what happens when I do:

On nights when I sing, I am a different person. I relax, smile and laugh very easily. Even I can see how I may be attractive then, but I never truly ‘feel’ attractive – it’s purely intellectual. Sometimes my singing gets me attention from women and I feel impossibly out of my depth trying to maintain the flirting.

It’s not like I have a fear of women. I get on brilliantly with partnered female friends, older women or single friends who presumably don’t fancy me. It’s specifically girls who give signs of encouragement that I freeze up with. (May as well confess: I‘m currently avoiding a local music session because a girl I fancy visits them. She’s exceptionally gorgeous but she’s 27 and very worldly – she has no idea how difficult it is for me to act on her cues! Sometimes she is clearly flirting, but never outright enough to make me relax. Yes, I’m soft.)

Socialising

This goes beyond girls -- I’m uncomfortable with everyone when I’m without purpose. That’s to say: when I’m helping, educating or singing it’s different – I’m confident in my role and only desire to give, and everyone’s a friend – but if I were to go out alone, for instance, I’d be seeking to ‘get’, and that’s when I feel anxious. Except for singing, I never put myself in situations where I may meet others, and the prospect is very daunting.

I have just graduated from uni- I chose to live here and all my friends have now moved away. It recently dawned on me that for the first time in my life I have no female friends at all. (Just saying that is awful – I learnt as a child to thrive on female attention and I definitely wilt without it - I first observed this when I was 6, I was a little lover back then. I’m actually worse with women now than as a child!)

What I could really do with above everything is a cuddle. But there’s no one! I have two older musician friends who are quite maternal towards me. I’d love to cuddle with them if they allowed: one of these ladies is divorced and she might just welcome a non-sexual cuddle from a young lad like myself, but how do I say it out of the blue? We tend to meet once a week and play music together – there’s never much time for heart-to-hearts. Even if she’s open to cuddling, I am only three years older than her daughter and she may think that inappropriate. (On the other hand she is Irish and a shiatsu therapist, so she’s probably a lot less reserved about that kind of thing.)

Questions!

So, my question to you is how have ‘you’ met lovers or cuddle-friends? I have read the tools to connect; I’d love to try some of these things – but what specifically has worked for you? I’d love to hear your stories.

So couples, answer me – how did you meet? And ladies – where would you go if you wished to meet an altogether switched-on man? I have half a mind to consider online dating – at least then I could assume she was nervous as well - but I wouldn’t know where to begin looking.

I would appreciate hearing what meditations, yoga/taichi you practice too. There are a few in my area, but I don’t know where to start. As for meditation I only know Tibetan Longchen (a compassion meditation), which I’ll gladly share if you speak up!

Possible setback? Advice from Karezza men please

This morning, I ejaculated without orgasm after only 20 seconds of half-asleep touch. I just reached down to check it was still there and suddenly -- Vesuvius on the sheets. Aside from the embarrassment of having the world’s most premature ejaculation, I started to feel anxious, irritable and now I am completely lethargic and downhearted. The contrast between now and the past month is incredible.

Until now I haven’t ejaculated in over a month (my prostate aches as if it had a workout). Is some kind of ejaculation unavoidable, do you think?
Second: how’s ejaculation vs. orgasm? I tend to think seed retention is a wise idea, but I assumed orgasm was the main neurological culprit? Your thoughts would be interesting.

Sexual energy tips?

Also guys, a more obvious question: how do you move that sexual energy out of the genitals? I haven’t had much success with the palm method.

I definitely need help with this – presently I feel like Priapus. Actually no, I feel like I’ve been surgically attached to a madman. The rest of my body is sleepy and androgynous whilst my genitals are on fire. If electrical companies could rig me up, I’m sure I’d power an entire continent - but this is all trapped in my johnson! Help me drive that energy upwards so I can sing like Barry White. What things work for you?

Placing a call for CCs

Finally, if any sisters out there are seeking a courtly companion, I’d love to be of service. As a kid I wished desperately for a sister, but since she never came I struck up lots of platonic friendships with women instead. I’m quite comfortable with the idea! I’ve grown unintentionally familiar with lots of female issues I never knew existed, so it’s also unlikely you’ll be able to shock me. Doesn’t that sound like a bargain?

~~~~

That’s it! Thanks for reading the whole sprawl. I look forward to meeting you.

Beefheart

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Comments

welcome!

[quote=Beefheart]Now I must confront my shyness if I am to lead any sort of life. [/quote]

You will become less shy as long as you don't masturbate. Congratulations! This one act removes a lot of the brakes that have been on and will help mold you into a different better person.

[quote]

I have two older musician friends who are quite maternal towards me. I’d love to cuddle with them if they allowed: one of these ladies is divorced and she might just welcome a non-sexual cuddle from a young lad like myself, but how do I say it out of the blue? We tend to meet once a week and play music together – there’s never much time for heart-to-hearts. Even if she’s open to cuddling, I am only three years older than her daughter and she may think that inappropriate. (On the other hand she is Irish and a shiatsu therapist, so she’s probably a lot less reserved about that kind of thing.)[/quote]

Probably a great prospect for you. It would I think flatter her if you asked her. And she might introduce you to a younger woman, and/or give you more confidence.

[quote]

Questions! So, my question to you is how have ‘you’ met lovers or cuddle-friends? I have read the tools to connect; I’d love to try some of these things – but what specifically has worked for you? I’d love to hear your stories. So couples, answer me – how did you meet? And ladies – where would you go if you wished to meet an altogether switched-on man? I have half a mind to consider online dating – at least then I could assume she was nervous as well - but I wouldn’t know where to begin looking. I would appreciate hearing what meditations, yoga/taichi you practice too.[/quote]

I met my wife at a singles event. If I was looking today I would do on line dating in a heartbeat.

And I'd take dance classes. Those are fun, great ways to meet women and just get used to being with women and getting physical contact.

[quote]

Possible setback? Advice from Karezza men please This morning, I ejaculated without orgasm after only 20 seconds of half-asleep touch. I just reached down to check it was still there and suddenly -- Vesuvius on the sheets. Aside from the embarrassment of having the world’s most premature ejaculation, I started to feel anxious, irritable and now I am completely lethargic and downhearted. The contrast between now and the past month is incredible. Until now I haven’t ejaculated in over a month (my prostate aches as if it had a workout). Is some kind of ejaculation unavoidable, do you think? Second: how’s ejaculation vs. orgasm? I tend to think seed retention is a wise idea, but I assumed orgasm was the main neurological culprit? Your thoughts would be interesting. [/quote]

I don't think there is anything wrong with what happened. Hey, it's like a wet dream, move on, no worries. Everything will fix itself in days or a week or so.

I think ejaculation is best avoided and orgasm is best avoided but there are others that think it's just ejaculation. I'm in the avoid-orgasms school myself.

[quote]

Sexual energy tips? Also guys, a more obvious question: how do you move that sexual energy out of the genitals? I haven’t had much success with the palm method. I definitely need help with this – presently I feel like Priapus. Actually no, I feel like I’ve been surgically attached to a madman. The rest of my body is sleepy and androgynous whilst my genitals are on fire. If electrical companies could rig me up, I’m sure I’d power an entire continent - but this is all trapped in my johnson! Help me drive that energy upwards so I can sing like Barry White. What things work for you? [/quote]

Try the techniques from Mantak Chia. His books are very helpful.

 

emersonI met my wife at a

[quote=emerson]I met my wife at a singles event. If I was looking today I would do on line dating in a heartbeat.And I'd take dance classes. Those are fun, great ways to meet women and just get used to being with women and getting physical contact.[/quote]

Thanks emerson for your suggestions.
Yes, online dating I'm definitely deliberating, but how does one even start choosing a site? I wouldn't know whether to go big or small. (Hey Marnia, how about karezza dating, hmm?)

I must admit dance classes sound very daunting. The contact sounds nice, but I've never danced seriously before by myself, let alone with another! I suspect my eyesight may disrupt my coordination a little too.

[quote]Try the techniques from Mantak Chia. His books are very helpful. [/quote]

Do go on! One switched-on friend of mine (now a father in another county) passed me one of Chia's books to read, but I forgot to take it home. Something about testicular breathing and ovarian kung-fu? I must admit it made no sense to me at the time, but I'm open to anything from those canny Daoists.

It's nice to learn about you and your wife too! Something mildly soothing about reading how in love you are. :)

Welcome

It's a refreshing change having young non-porn addicts around (although I love the porn guys too).

First, having seen your pic, I can tell you...you're hot. No worries on that front. Good And singers/musicians are automatically hot in any case!

There are lots of techniques for circulating sexual energy here. Try some until you find what works best:

Energy Circulation Practices

Second, I think a good way to bring up the cuddle buddy idea is with an article on touch. Here's one I wrote...with kind of a tacky title: Calling All Skin-Hungry Cuddle Sluts There's a similar one here, written by a forum member: Are You Skin Hungry? See what she thinks of the idea and tell her you're thinking of finding a cuddle buddy. See what her response tells you.

As for the hot 27-year old woman...stop avoiding her, but stay detached from the outcome. It's hard to explain this, but try to flirt in a wholesome brother-sister way. It's good practice.  It's fine to tell her you think she's gorgeous and that you wish you were older. Watch her response. She may not care about the age difference, and that's her cue to let you know if she's interested. Ask if she has any friends your age. Wink

Ejaculations happen. Some people notice neurochemical ripples afterward and some don't. Just observe and get to know yourself. Your confidence should come back very soon.

A guy once told me, "I've noticed that when I masturbate I've usually missed a chance to connect." (That was before the Internet....) It was a very insightful comment. If you're "ready" to start reaching out to women and you don't allow yourself to...your body may let you know. Shok

It's good to experiment with a period of no orgasm, but it's fine to come up with a schedule, too. Thoughts here: Are there any guidelines for healthy masturbation?

I'm happy to add your meditation to the page here. What should I say? Any links? Meditation

Sob story warning!

[quote]First, having seen your pic, I can tell you...you're hot. No worries on that front. And singers/musicians are automatically hot in any case![/quote]

That's really kind Marnia - I actually struggle with this a lot. Probably more than is healthy. Some days I can like what I see, but other days I can't stand my appearance. It's psychologically painful - I obsess over facial imperfections that in a woman I'd find a massive turn-on (i mean, who wants perfection?).

I don't understand it at all, since I'm otherwise very healthy and confident in who I am. Can only guess it ultimately derives from my teenage years. For years I had very thick glasses which of course got me abuse at school, but I'd also get people hinting that I was good-looking when I took them off. Once I got contact lenses everyone became keenly aware just how girlish I looked, too. Until about 16 I looked, um, 'angelic', so I got mixed reactions about that, mainly abuse from skinhead guys. In every other matter I couldn't care less what others thought of me, but this is still a source of insecurity for me today.

It'd probably help a lot just to have a girl say I'm attractive to my face - but that hasn't happened, so there's always this uncertainty in my head. If a girl comments on my photo, which sometimes happens, I think "well I must look different in person."

[quote]Second, I think a good way to bring up the cuddle buddy idea is with an article on touch. Here's one I wrote...with kind of a tacky title: Calling All Skin-Hungry Cuddle Sluts There's a similar one here, written by a forum member: Are You Skin Hungry? See what she thinks of the idea and tell her you're thinking of finding a cuddle buddy. See what her response tells you.[/quote]

That article is lovely, I have read it before! But I don't think I could just email this to my older friend. She's very warm and nice to me but we have about 10 minutes conversation a week in a crowded pub -- the rest of the time we're playing together. If we met up for a chat I could probably say it tactfully, but she's busy enough as it is. I'll persevere.

[quote]As for the hot 27-year old woman...stop avoiding her, but stay detached from the outcome. It's hard to explain this, but try to flirt in a wholesome brother-sister way. It's good practice. It's fine to tell her you think she's gorgeous and that you wish you were older. Watch her response. She may not care about the age difference, and that's her cue to let you know if she's interested. Ask if she has any friends your age.[/quote]

Cheers for the advice. my problem is that I'm a bit 'too' wholesome, and it's so hard to be detached! She's the sort of woman who is so gorgeous I'd have not looked twice at her, except that she introduced herself to me. At our music nights she has the eyes of the room on her - she's not even one of the musicians! It's actually very rare to see her without several men trying their luck nearby, but she tells me it's all fun. I fear that could somewhat desensitise her to my interest - but I will definitely try your advice if I see her and get her alone. :)

[quote]It's good to experiment with a period of no orgasm, but it's fine to come up with a schedule, too. Thoughts here: Are there any guidelines for healthy masturbation?[/quote]

If I wasn't confused before, I am now! I think I heard a "hey, yeah, follow this advice!" from inside my boxers.

I think I'd better stay away from this entirely. At least for now. For the past two weeks I have been unable to resist stroking myself in the morning, and if I keep this up I'll just O.

In the interest of sharing (feel free to skip), here's my not-so-dependable coping method:

If I really can't take my hands away, I'll pull my foreskin back as far as it will comfortably go and just hold it tight, trying to focus on how *comforting* that and my erection feels. With my left hand I'll stroke my chest or that little space between the ears and neck. It's blissful, but sooner or later I deviate and stop right away.

Tonglen Meditation to come soon! I must practice this more.

it is better to skip

masturbation if you can. Not masturbating increases your assertiveness and lets you give out and pick up invisible signals from and to women that are very powerful. Good going!

Thanks for your thoughts - I

Thanks for your thoughts - I actually noticed some of these receiving signals today and I felt just great. I was able to smile freely at two girls who checked me out (!) in town - of course I'd be a lot more nervous if I was expected to approach them. Did you have many nerves at your first dance class?

May I ask which of Mantak Chia's books or discoveries have been good for you - I believe my friend had something called the Tao of Male Sexuality - is that it?

Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Energy

that's the best one. The newer one is okay but that's the best one.

I am a believer in making things really easy. If you go to a dance class and the instructor says "switch partners" then you switch partners. It's easy. So you shake her hand and say hello. And you dance with her (assuming it's couples dancing which I highly recomment as opposed to line dancing). 

Just go with that for awhile. It will REALLY help!

Fergie, good to see you here

Fergie, good to see you here too.

Wish it was a wet dream! I've never had one. Sadly this was definitely conscious masturbation: I was just too sleepy to remember my promise.

Hope it's going well for you, will check out your blog next.

Unusual fear of vulnerability...

...does seem to be a British phenomenon. My ex-fiance was English and he was the same way.

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but...I am a bit older than you, have had plenty of admirers, and am STILL incapable of approaching men I find attractive. I just can't do it.

I wish I knew where to find a good man! Being the introvert that I am, I don't get out much except to go to shows, and have yet to find a suitable mate that way. But, if you want to meet someone who loves music as much as you do, it might simply be a matter of being in the right venue at the right time.

And honestly...a little vulnerability can be very endearing. Women tend to like musicians because they are perceived as sensitive, so if you actually ARE sensitive and a little shy, you might attract a woman who will take the time to draw you out of your shell offstage.

[quote=Marnia]It's fine to tell her you think she's gorgeous and that you wish you were older. Watch her response. She may not care about the age difference, and that's her cue to let you know if she's interested.[/quote]

Agreed. This is a low-key way of expressing interest - it's flattering, but with no pressure.

Good luck!

Quote:

[quote]I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but..[/quote]

Oh I really appreciate hearing this from the female perspective. Easy to forget that it's hard for everyone when you have no other-sex friends to talk to.

Sorry to hear about your ex. Fear of being 'a problem' can really stunt relationships - if I didn't have this constant fear of imposing I'd be out making friendships and rekindling old ones all the time. (When my American friend visited me I couldn't believe how open she was to everyone, she forced me into conversations with total strangers and she doesn't consider herself unusually outgoing - just being Italian-American, she said!)

As for approaching men:
I guess you know this, but I think most men would be so shocked to have an attractive woman approach them that they'd probably start speaking in tongues. It happens so rarely to any guy that he's probably never considered what he'd do in that situation -- most of us would be very grateful. He's at least likely to buy you a drink, I would've thought?

[quote]I wish I knew where to find a good man! Being the introvert that I am, I don't get out much except to go to shows, and have yet to find a suitable mate that way. But, if you want to meet someone who loves music as much as you do, it might simply be a matter of being in the right venue at the right time.[/quote]

If you have these in America, may I suggest folk/roots music sessions? These aren't like your usual stage or open mic nights - it's raw communal music, usually occupying a table in a bar. The musicians (here they're 2/3rds male) sit together and anyone is welcome to sit with us. I've met loads of absolutely superior guys at them (but sadly they snapped up all the folksy women before I got there).

Fully agree with you about the right time and place. My dad was 18 when he met my mum at a 'battle of the bands' evening - when I was his age I didn't go out at all!

Thanks for stopping by. I'll be sure to read your blog. Hope you find a loving man with speed.

Beefheart wrote:

[quote=Beefheart]
I guess you know this, but I think most men would be so shocked to have an attractive woman approach them that they'd probably start speaking in tongues. It happens so rarely to any guy that he's probably never considered what he'd do in that situation -- most of us would be very grateful. He's at least likely to buy you a drink, I would've thought?[/quote]

I would've thought so too...but no. When I've tried approaching men, they've always shot me down. Two or three of them have been kind enough to turn me down gently, but most of them have gone out of their way to be cruel.

You know, my ex actually believed he was ugly (short, red hair...) and never really believed that I thought he was cute. He used to get hassled by skinheads and other troublemakers on the bus, so I'm not surprised you've had that experience. For what it's worth, I find angelic-looking boys very appealing, but I've had a hard time finding one who isn't ugly on the inside :/

First thoughts

Well first -- I'm reading your first blog entry now. I don't know if I'm just emotionally unstable today but it pulls painfully on the heartstrings! I should really read everything before responding but I must say right away that giving up approaching guys is a terrible decision. I can hardly blame you since I approached one girl and then resolutely gave up, but that's partly 'why' I know. Speaking as the kind of lad you apparently like (fragile weakling with nice eyes, I'm guessing? Just bet they were all vegetarians too), it's very unlikely any of us would dare approach you. It's just not going to happen, and if he tries, he'll most likely make a horrific mess out of it (as I did with a girl who had been hot-and-cold flirting with me for +18 months - you can guess how that turned out. She got a boyfriend 2 weeks later).

There's probably a potential companion in your acquaintance this very moment who is unable to confess his feelings to you, because he thinks you'll either 1.) destroy him, 2.) assume he's just being sleazy or 3.) reject him really nicely and pat him on the head. These are the exact fears in my heart with this older girl - like you she's the object of every man's attention (but unlike you she seems to thrive on it). I wouldn't normally even consider girls like her, not because of low self-worth but because I assume her looks have made her disinterested to men's advances. So if you'll forgive this pure wish-fulfilment advice, help the poor lads out. The ones you are looking for wouldn't even know 'how' to shoot someone down, let alone feel so compelled.

Shocked-but-not-entirely by what you say about being shot-down. Shocked because I couldn't do it and I don't think I even know a single man who would, but not entirely because men learn to be reflexively defensive, especially if they mistakenly perceive a pretty girl is toying with their emotions for some unknown motive. It's even possible some of these guys kicked themselves afterwards when they realised what you were saying. Obviously, no clue what you were doing or who these men were, but I really really cannot imagine most guys would behave this way. (Sorry, shit advice isn't it? But the alternative is that I am some kind of saint among my sex, which simply isn't true.)

[quote] I find angelic-looking boys very appealing, but I've had a hard time finding one who isn't ugly on the inside :/[/quote]

I have the same problem with fragile angelic girls! I try hard not to have a type, but every girl I have ever fancied turned out at some point to be vegetarian/vegan - most of them had fainted at least once. It's taken me an embarrassingly long time to realise the only indicator for compassion is Compassion.

Catch-22

A terrible decision? Maybe it is. But I've just had enough. Fragile creatures with nice eyes are my absolute favorites, though I only wish they were all vegetarians! (I've been a vegan for 10 years, so if anyone knows how hard it is to find a good plant-eating male, it's me.) Yikes, some girl flirted with you off and on for 18 months? I can't even imagine playing with someone's feelings like that. I am pretty forgiving when it comes to awkward attempts at flirting; my ex sure wasn't good at it, but that never bothered me.

No such luck, sadly. The few male friends I do have are taken, gay, or both. If I could just get men to meet me halfway and be civil when turning me down, I absolutely would 'help the poor lads out'.

I realize a lot of women play games, but I don't. It's not uncommon for the same guys who turn me down to choose a silly girl who messes with their heads...and then they complain about it. The whole thing makes no sense to me. (By the way, tread carefully with girls who thrive on male attention and little else. I have seen them break a lot of hearts and shamelessly manipulate others purely for their own amusement.)

I also try not to have a 'type', but it just doesn't work for me. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a caring, protective mate, but they always go right for the bony waifs. I don't look like that; I'm fragile on the inside. The curves are just window dressing.

Don't give up

Pinup, my beloved has completely changed his eating habits since meeting me~~so be open to a man who has the heart you love first and foremost. (I'm a long-time healthy, curvy vegan, too)

I know how you feel

I feel I've had enough and I've hardly 'had' any! I mean, my nerves aren't entirely due to inexperience.

Yes, those 18 months were fun. By the end of them I felt genuinely quite ill - I couldn't focus on anything and quit singing. To top it off, I made the mistake of confiding in my only close friend at uni - first he offered unconditional support and bromance, then he threw my paints out of our studio and started insulting me in front of our coursemates (then, right, after I left, he texted me with 'why did you leave without saying goodbye? dont overreact mate" followed by multiple texts in that tone). Wow! I am rather proud of myself for not jumping off a bridge that month.

What I learnt from all this (apart from major distrust) was that I could stand up to my male best friend immediately but couldn’t challenge a girl’s solipsistic behaviour in 18 months. So no, what you say doesn't surprise me -- men and women alike just love to be treated like dirt by the opposite sex. Sometimes I feel like I’ve had enough already, but I’ve also had enough being alone. Do you not still feel that way? I am curious.

[quote](By the way, tread carefully with girls who thrive on male attention and little else. I have seen them break a lot of hearts and shamelessly manipulate others purely for their own amusement.)[/quote]

Thanks for warning me, I'm truthfully very wary of this girl already - hence my avoiding her! I cannot tell if she gives these other guys the same looks she gives me, but they’re very intoxicating looks indeed and I don’t have much emotional insulation from them. I really am not certain about her, and even casually telling her she’s gorgeous is probably unlikely for me. Plus, it’s a given.

About bony waifs – maybe guys of my build and temperament do seek out fragile girls, but we just want to feel like men. I am conscious of feeling too ‘delicate’ for certain builds of women – curvy women are very attractive but an elfin girl is a good fit who won’t make us feel weak. I’ll leave it to you how you can make him feel more comfortable. (I am reminded of Serge Gainsbourg saying he was ‘scared’ of Brigitte Bardot’s breasts the whole time he was with her).

Ps:
[quote]Fragile creatures with nice eyes are my absolute favorites, though I only wish they were all vegetarians! (I've been a vegan for 10 years, so if anyone knows how hard it is to find a good plant-eating male, it's me.) [/quote]
Probably a good thing we're very far away from each other! But I am curious about veganism, was it easy adapting to it? If you have any good links, please send them along.

Once bitten, twice shy

It sounds like your "friend" has some kind of mental disorder; that's classic borderline behavior. Not an excuse, but you were certainly right to walk away.

I do stand up to men who treat me badly - but it doesn't do any good. Sometimes, it makes the bad guys more determined to bother me. Yes, I've had enough...but I am definitely more frustrated by loneliness. It's torture.

I've met many girls like that, and there's a reason that wariness exists. When in doubt, stay away!

Although that makes sense, it does sting a little - there's really nothing I can do about my measurements (apparently being relatively short with dainty hands and feet isn't enough). I get lots of attention from 200-pound muscleheads, but...no. No way.

I went vegan under unusually difficult circumstances, but it was still one of the easier things I've done. I'll send you a message later.

Don't forget

Don't overlook the obvious thing here - you're getting attention from these beefcakes because you're attractive. Loads of waif-like boys will fancy you, but they're less likely to make the first move. That's partly because we're conditioned to believe that curvy women will only consider barrel-chested men! Don't let it sting that your 'type' may feel self-conscious around you - it puts you in quite a good position to reassure him.

I know, I've made a lot of generalisations as if all slender young men are the same, but speaking as a genuine slender young man: slight girls may be my default 'type', but the only girl I truly selflessly loved (never told her) was by chance very curvy indeed - she actually emphasised it with corsets and billowing skirts. She was very beautiful but very self-conscious and hated showing off her skin. Her figure didn't intimidate me at all (although I loved her for who she was) and it definitely won't put men off you if you just show them you like them. That alone should override any abstract preferences a guy thinks he has.

(Another obvious thing to remember: no heterosexual man is repelled by curvy women. This really shouldn't be a problem for you, and if it is you're approaching the wrong ones!)

Oh-- and thanks very much for the vegan info.

Obvious

Although I know there are a few "gentle giants" out there, larger men have consistently tossed me around like a rag doll. I'm never letting that happen again.

How sad that she never knew you loved her. Sadly, I've had the opposite experience - they're always put off. (I am definitely going for straight guys - they always pick another girl.)

You're welcome.

Well in what way are they put off?

Have the polite ones ever told you why?
(Sorry for the tough question, but it may help to know what you or these guys are doing each time.)

and yes! Very sad. I have often felt like writing her a letter just to say I loved her during those years and hope she is more confident these days, but she's not online, she moved away and none of her neighbours know where. (At the time, she was taken by a very camp boy who we all suspected was gay - they were together for 5 years before he came out.)

Well...

...the answer is almost always "you're not really my type." Exception: the "friend" who made the excuse that he was moving to another state (true), but didn't let it stop him from...shall we say, 'entertaining' my housemate via webcam. (She was one of those manipulative girls I warned you about...and was laughing about it the whole time.)

Why not write the letter for the emotional release, then destroy it? It's how I moved on from a bad previous relationship when contact wasn't possible.

Sounds like

he was a little porn-addicted. I doubt he'd have seen that as contradictory behaviour at all. Lucky escape, perhaps?

I wonder if these guys explained what they meant by their 'type' - do they specifically bring your appearance up? If so then I'm sorry you've met such godawfully shallow men; if not perhaps your curviness is less of an issue than you think.

Re your letter idea: She's probably the one girl I've adored who gave me no trauma whatsoever (except for all those 'should have done' thoughts, oh and the subsequent falling out with her boyfriend). But the idea's a good one.
(As an aside, I once knew a rather misogynistic Mediterranean fellow on a forum who decided to vent his workplace frustration in an email and then delete it. He addressed it to his female boss and it began "dear prostitute". In a triumph of natural justice he then absent-mindedly clicked 'send'. He sadly declined to reveal what happened next, but he posted lots of angry red faces for a while.)

Maybe...

My housemate kept bragging about how she talked him into it, so I don't think it was his idea. Hence the warning about girls who thrive on male attention.

Frequently - I've been deemed not good enough because of my stature, hair color, ethnic background, measurements, you name it.

It's sad that she'll never know, but it sounds like it may be time to move on. When I write a letter to vent, I use a pen and paper (computers can make temporary copies of documents that linger in unallocated spots on the hard drive...), shred it, and burn the shreds. It's very cathartic, and there's no chance of anyone else seeing it.

I hope

you tell these guys where to go. That's incredible.

Well, warning taken! But I doubt any amount of talking would get me to expose myself on webcam to some girl (I mean MAYBE if she led by example, but outside of a relationship that'd just be weird). Your housemate sounds a little insane maybe?

(and I have moved on, it was years ago! I only wish to write a letter that it might lift her confidence (she struggled). But I'll consider a letter for others when I have time. Good idea.)

Yes

...it is, and I hope they someday realize how shallow and cruel they were.

My housemate was very screwed up, which seemed to be part of her appeal. Men fell over themselves left and right trying to "rescue" her, even though she preferred to just make horrible messes of things.

That's good, but it's too bad she'll never see the letter. She's lucky to have known someone so kind.

You clearly

have a hell of a lot to offer as a woman, but I do wonder about your taste in men. I'm not saying the world isn't full of shallow people, but I try to think of the guys I know, and I can't think of more than 10 who would ever be like that. Who are you approaching? Friends? Strangers in bars?

I wish I was so kind at the time. Back then I was just a kid. I had no capacity for malice or cynicism but I was just as unable to give a compliment, even to someone I adored. If I had only been comfortable in myself - who knows? Compassion still has a lot to teach me but I am much better than I was.

So do I

Friends or friends of friends in every single case. I would never approach a stranger in a bar.

At least that's changed since then. When you do meet the right woman, you'll know what to do about it :)

What about

choosing a woman based on some other quality than looks? Find one who is friendly, generous, and has a good sense of humor.

The obsession with gorgeous women can have some unfortunate sources (not saying any apply to you...that's for you to decide).

One is just your genes talking because they figure they'll have a better chance of getting passed on if someone gorgeous is the mother of your kids.  Alas, such an attraction says nothing about your long-term compatibility with this "splendid genetic package."

The second is insecurity talking: "I'm insecure, but if I have a gorgeous woman next to me, people will think I must be really a wonderful person." Simply doesn't work. After the initial rush of self-satisfaction from achieving your goal, you'd still feel insecure because you haven't dealt with the insecurity from within. A variation on the "insecurity" theme is that having impossible standards lets you justify staying out of relationships indefinitely. If so, you are being tricked.

The third is, "I watched too much porn/fantasized too much about my ideal 'type,' so my brain only responds to its idea of a 10." This should shift automatically the more you stay away from such stimulation. Guys report all the time that they are amazed at how much more attractive all women become as their brains return to balance.

Perception is largely an inside job.

 

Please give me some credit.

Marnia - if I chose women based primarily on their looks, why would I be on a website like this? Are there even men like you describe here?

Sorry, I hate being stern, but from your perception of me it's clear I have failed to communicate who I am and why I’m here. So let’s clarify:

I’m 22 years old and I am painfully alone. Apart from music, all I care about is reaching other beings on a spiritual level - the rest of the man-made world is just flotsam to me. I registered on Reuniting not to bang hot chicks, but because I care for nothing except soul-to-soul contact, lack of which is causing me to slowly fall apart. Like Pinup I have grown disillusioned with people -- the reason I’m urging her to keep approaching "cute" guys that appeal to her is because I know how unhealthy it is to give up. I gave up seeking a girlfriend last year - that's okay, I only need a cuddle - but there's a risk I'll give up on this more humble desire soon.

My perception is that nothing in the physical world can bring comfort – not even orgasm. So I’m certainly not about to rate women by their looks (or, for that matter, their sense of humour). Everything is trivial except compassion, but we can't see people's souls on a first date, can we? (not that I've ever had a first date.)

Just making sure

you're not under the spell of some dame you can't even talk to.

Don't worry...I have a feel for the real you. But everyone can get hypnotized now and then. During college I once changed my whole lunch schedule so I could stare at a gorgeous Argentinian classmate while he ate on class days. Wacko

Haha!

That's cute though. I wish I could say a lady had done that for me.

I can talk to her, I even invited her to my degree show exhibition and she came along with a friend. The problem is that talking to her reassures me of nothing, and I'm wary of getting into any situation that resembles my past horror story. I'd rather not meet her again than start to fall for her and be unable to speak up.

I'm certainly not obsessed with 'gorgeous' women. If anything I wish this girl were less perfect since it's a hindrance to truly knowing her. I find most women (with their slight imperfections) to be amazingly beautiful. Like I say, if I found a woman with the same facial flaws I beat myself up for, I'd find her impossibly cute. But I can't see myself that way, and kind of feel justified in it because a girl has clearly never liked me enough to ask me out.

(I know you're right about self-perception, but I’m sure I will only truly believe I’m attractive if I receive flesh-and-blood confirmation from a feminine spirit -- I try to challenge this neurosis in the mirror but it’s not a unipolar thing! Some days I feel great, others dreadful - what I say in the mirror doesn’t seem to alter the pattern.)

Lastly I just don’t know how I choose women. Consciously I only ‘choose’ girls who show that they're interested, which in theory should prevent me bothering girls who don't care for me. Admittedly I also restrict myself – e.g. I have never been interested in women who try to mask their natural selves with tans and razors and things, which obviously limits me to an increasingly rare kind of girl, but I don’t wish to alter my opinions on that. This alone is what prevented me from becoming a porn addict, since I couldn’t deal with the orgy of fakeness.

What about asking

your older friend to read the article because you want her advice on finding a cuddle buddy? That would introduce her to the concept without any awkwardness at all. And it might benefit her too one of these days.

My best friend lives in Edinborough, so I'll ask if she knows anyone from your part of the Isles. She teaches a lot of uni students, so she might.

I'f you're going to stay away from masturbation for a bit, you may need to employ the dreaded Cold water technique Wacko Seriously, the Daoists swore by it, so give it a try. It's a good dose of "yin."

PS

Even if a woman told you you were gorgeous, that wouldn't do it.

Correcting your misperception is an inside job. Try looking in the mirror daily and telling yourself how attractive you are. Be specific about what you like.

cold water technique

[quote]My best friend lives in Edinborough, so I'll ask if she knows anyone from your part of the Isles. She teaches a lot of uni students, so she might.[/quote]

That'd be delightful. Shouldn't think it too likely since most Brits view Edinburgh and Bristol as the magnetic poles, but it's very nice of you to ask. :)

Thanks for the cold water torture -- I've tried it 3 times today and it's been great for stopping the urge. But my wiring must be messed up because even that makes him stand to attention! Guess I'm just super-virile.

[quote]Even if a woman told you you were gorgeous, that wouldn't do it.

Correcting your misperception is an inside job. Try looking in the mirror daily and telling yourself how attractive you are. Be specific about what you like.[/quote]

Very true, but just to add: deriving validation from women 'is' a bad habit of mine - e.g. I used to be annoyed at my hair, but women tend to find it an easy compliment to make and over time I just stopped worrying about my curls. I'll follow your advice as always.

Never "always"

follow anyone's advice unless it's beneficial!

I'll tell her it's Bristol. She used to teach courses for grad students at Cambridge untill recently. In any case, she's an amazing networker.

That said, best to find your own goddess. Just keep letting the mojo build. Two months is a big turning point for some guys as far as seeing their inner turmoil settle down.

BTW, there are (some) non-addict guys playing around with not masturbating for a stint at this forum. You might enjoy sniffing around over there too: REDDIT.NoFap