TM and Karezza

Submitted by bivasbasu2005 on
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Transcendental Meditation is a superset of all these tools described here for balancing and rebalancing both physical and mental states with an intention to reach higher level of maturity for sustainable enjoyment including both physical or mental one.

TM is just a technique like karezza that progressively provides awareness of balancing and rebalancing all unbalanced states both in physical and mental domain.

These techniques are truly some processes with hierarchy of activities that are mostly excellently pleasing to our senses. The source of these pleasure are in fact issues that keep appearing before us as small or big ones challenging our innovative stretches. innovative sparks are what we experience as pleasing sensation whether it is in sensuous ecstasy or in spiritual enlightenment.

The basic difference that emerges out of my analysis is that Karezza needs two entities to try out an exotic experiences while TM provides the same with you acting as two entities fused into one . This is where searching for courtship partners is well obviated.

Comments

Thank you for your opinion

The practice of karezza is for those who choose the coupled path (or "buddy system"), so "obviating the need for a partner" is not the goal.

Also, since you offered your opinion, I'll offer mine. Humans evolved as tribal pair bonders. Unless someone is an outlier (and no doubt outliers do exist), we humans may never be as self-sufficient as you suggest. TM can certainly provide some peace of mind, but so can karezza. And the later also allows the joy of shared companionship. Chacun à son goût.

Rebalancing

Your comment is interesting, Marina. It does triggers an enlightening dialogue process.

Truly speaking, I am here to to understand systems and practices you are conveying to like minded people including me.

Being influenced by your writing since 1998 , I have sought membership from you to share and deliberate on issues and challenges that embraces shared companionship between male and females.

There is no doubt that TM and Karezza are both positive experiences. The former is the one that makes people prepared and capable with all required faculties for acquiring new things in life while the latter what seems to be a new thing in itself.

I am inspired by you with your direction for sustainable positive experiences in shared companionship between male and female. Karezza is a deeper understanding in itself.

This deeper understanding perhaps happen to her or him with all intelligence to experience a shift of paradigm towards different level of companionship or relationship by adopting an extremely innovative framework developed by you and your associates.

This change of paradigm involves male and female willing to undergo this paradigm shift which is at different level of intelligence.

Interest and patience flows endlessly once this shift enables the couples for trying karezza learning curve beyond conventions.

People with TM habit can perhaps unblock all conscious or subconscious intelligence for required paradigm shift and remain confined within marital institution or social order.

When the companionship extends beyond the boundaries of marital institution, it invites contradiction.

This contradiction is very much likely since one of the existing couples may not have the required maturity or intelligence for undergoing the paradigm shift required for karezza.

This is how Karezza seem to be an extremely private and may even question ethics in monogamous structure of today's societies around the world if patterning goes beyond marital institution.

Is there a different call to resolve this contradiction? There must be some tools to renew and rekindle or spice up the existing relationship itself by diluting coolidge effect and promoting karezza for sustainable and exotic pleasure, peace and fulfillment in life

This is why attention may need to be directed towards cause and effect relationship rather than hankering after the pleasant effects of karezza( most like spoon feeding in society).

It is research question that encourages me to stay tuned to you, Marina : Can TM and karezza form cause and effect relationship for paradigm shift and ensure social order?

I meant "obviating the need for a partner" beyond existing connubial boundaries.

Please do not unfriend me by misunderstanding me.

Thanks for yoru clarification

My writing about Karezza was an outgrowth of a struggle to understand why monogamous relationships were so fragile - even though they had so much to offer in terms of wellbeing. So, by definition, karezza isn't a solo path.

TM is a solo path. Quite a beneficial one according to many. I can see why choosing it, or choosing to blend it with karezza, would be interesting to experiment with.

Please elaborate on your "cause and effect" statement. I don't think of karezza as merely a "pleasant spoon-feeding." I think it helps balance the reward circuitry of the brain (as does TM), thus profoundly affecting perception and priorities in ways that can promote more harmonious lives.

I also hope you'll clarify what you're saying about "karezza+TM = going beyond the bounds of convention." As an aside, and to my amusement, polyamorists often promote karezza principles. People will use the information however they choose. I'm not sure how it's used reflects any particular spot on a hierarchy of experience.

Sorry to have given you the impression that I was "unfriending you." If ever I do, there will be no ambiguity about it!

elaboration on cause and effect

I could not reply to you yesterday. I was too busy in day to day business. Let me further extend my views :

I did not mean karezza as merely a "pleasant spoon-feeding."

I meant that only couples with sound base of knowledge and experience plus sound mental and physical health can pursue karezza.

Unless they have sound base of knowledge and experience, they cannot understand neurotransmitters' mechanism on our mental and physical health and how one can further take advantage of their positive effects for gainful purposes for life long peace and prosperity.

Having sound base of knowledge and experiences sounds so nice, but acquiring it demands interest, patience, tenacious efforts and so on. Most people dream of having sound base of knowledge and experience using some shortcuts ( i.e like to be fed by spoon without any effort ). But that is not a reality.

The first and foremost thing is the sustainable will to acquire this sound base of knowledge and experience itself, it is often found missing after few hours of euphoria that happens when one sees new writings or reads new discussion or new postings and so on.

Why does it happen? It is the urge and interest that does not mostly emerge from inside the individual. It only comes from outside to him or her and vanishes to outside once stimulus like people like you ( Marina' writing or posting ) disappear from their mind.

The second thing is self awareness that tells whether one can have will at all, The third thing is the judgement towards filtering what is good from what is bad. This is the where people keeps failing to act on their own.

What I am trying to convey is unless there is something that comes from within, it is not sustainable. Karezza urge has to come from within not from stimuli like "shared companionship" ( which will become unshared after few hours of trying due to coolidge effect) .

TM can perhaps act as a cause to build inner desires for enjoying pleasant effect of karezza for life long enjoyment.

I agree entirely

that any practice that improves brain balance also aids with integrating karezza. But it is also true that the practice of karezza can aid with integration of those other practices.

Research suggests that in addition to meditation, time in nature, exercise, and other beneficial stressors such as fasting can also improve brain balance. Improved balance seems to have implications for spiritual perception enhancement. Many religions feature such practices, as well as (often) careful management of sexual desire.

The benefits of Karezza accrue with or without self-awareness

I think what you're getting at is that the benefits of practicing Karezza are transient unless they are joined with or anchored by some sort of inner personal practice like meditation, in much the same way as the positive feelings and insights we get at a group workshop fade a few days later when we are alone again.

I view these as separate things. To benefit from Karezza practice doesn't require a whole lot of awareness, although I imagine it would be difficult to achieve any kind of intentional, sustained Karezza practice without it because orgasm is more or less automatic and to walk a different path requires intention and discipline.

In my experience, the benefits of Karezza have both short-term and long-lasting components. The short-term benefits can be somewhat transient because the vanish the moment one of us has an orgasm! But that doesn't put me back to square one because my wife and I still retain the [durable] understanding that we are simply in a post-orgasmic state, and that any extra frustrations or friction we experience in our relationship are likely due mostly to that, and will subside over days or a few weeks as we return to our Karezza practice.

To some extent, it's a moot point because I can no longer envision living my life the pre-Karezza way. It's just become "how I do things".

Maybe the group of people who do Karezza is somewhat self-selected amongst those who already engage in some self-awareness practice. That is an interesting question...

I appreciate your messages and insights because it got me to think about this in a way that I hadn't before.

yes but

this is a site for Karezza and sex practices that align with it.

I am doubting that TM is part of that unless it's part of a sex practice or aligns with it, and I am not convinced it does.

I'm here about sex, not meditation.

I meditated, I still do, and Karezza is 1000000 times better, more pleasurable and more beneficial, and that's because I do it with my wife, not by myself.

Although of course, we are always by ourselves in truth.

weaving both TM and karezza

I am late again to reply. Time has permitted me again to visit you all. Interesting views are shared.

In fact, I do align with you,both Marina and emerson. While Marina agrees with me fully, emerson has provided another perspective. The perspective seem to reveal some contrast but truly there is no contrast.

The fact is the common thread weaving both TM and karezza weaves all successful karezza champions as well ( often perhaps without any conscious knowledge of the underlying events that occur behind their eyes)

This is because enjoying does not require knowing how enjoyment happens.

If one enjoys driving a car, he or she enjoys it without knowing how all intricate parts and components such as engine, transmission, axles, steering and wheel coordinate their movement among themselves along with participating neurochemistry in the individual's brain to make his or her enjoyment a reality.

Car is just a tool to orchestrate with enjoyment process.

Likewise, TM and karezza are just the tools to make enjoyment happen. There is nothing like one is hundred times better than the other since they all bring about similar changes for positive feelings.

The outward perception of TM, Karezza may seem to vary across various cross section of people because of their state of conditioning.

The conditioning actually make people see the same thing from different windows of perception. Most Karezza champions here might use so many different windows to view TM differently from karezza.

The underlying truth is however that both affects neurochemistry deeper inside us with results that are ( it is a research question) perhaps related to each other in terms of cause and effect bonding.

TM

I used to practice TM morning and evening about thirty years ago. I gave up eventually because the perceived benefits were so slight compared to the discipline required. I remember finding the twenty minute duration a strange mixture of ninety nine percent tedium and one percent ecstasy. The ecstasy came about whenever internal stillness prevailed - which was only ever for a matter of a few seconds.

Karezza, by contrast, is composed of zero percent tedium and one hundred percent pleasure, which often borders on ecstasy.

And as Emerson says, Karezza is shared.

I don't mean this to sound like I'm making a comparison between what I consider two very different activities. Sitting in nature, swimming, listening to music, and a host of other pursuits, can all produce similarly mixed feelings of boredom or delight.

For me, sex is the most amazing - and amazingly available, given average circumstances - experience we can have, primarily because the ratio of pleasure to pain (or indifference) is so high.

I realise by emphasising short term, even immediate, benefits, I may be ignoring any subtler, long term effects, but I suspect they go hand in hand anyway.

The way we use a tool does make a difference

It is a site of interesting people with reflective and thoughtful minds. I thank Marnia for approving my membership with reuniting.info

Sood experience with both ( TM and Karezza ) seem to be a great evidence of what happens to our desired results when we resort to the relevant tools either in desired or undesired way.

The tedium does exist when the learning curve is in the incipient stage. The pleasure to pain ratio keeps rising exponentially as we graduate ourselves to higher level of learning maturities. These are time tested facts and figures which do not require further testing.

I am in the initial stage of karezza ecstasy these days after being inspired by Marnia. In act, I am going through repeated sequences of miserable failures in terms of gallons of ejaculation with incessant orgasmic waves churning my partner these days. Does it frustrate us? It doesn't. The inner desires keeps us alive for many future unending efforts till the journey ends in success.

Coming to TM that I enjoy unlike sood, I don't truly recollect the tedium of TM that did happen to me 10 years back when TM teacher ( Guru) was teaching me the tools and technique. TM guru pointed out hundreds of mistakes in me when I was used to complain various shades of tedium like nagging pain at the corner of my brow, tired muscle in the eyes, shooting pain in the abdomen, sporadic headache after the meditation and so on. TM guru relentlessly reviewed my feeling and correlated them to improper usage of tools and technique over a long time ( days together ) till I gave up wrongs ways one by one. .

10 years back , I was used to start thinking of TM word in the initial days without any preparatory session. That was like a kind of forcing mind to do something. TM guru advised to spend 2 minutes preparatory session before the thought of TM word emerges. He explained that one need not forcibly think of TM word. Let that thought come naturally. Likewise, many wrong practices make TM most tedious experience and leaves us with an impression of non achievable feat.

What matters is how we do things ( whether it is TM or Karezza ).

With interest and patience, I am confident that I will pick up Karezza with the same feat of success experienced by most champions here.

The learning of correct ways will again involve identifying all improper ways and filtering them out one with time.

This however does not bias me with a perception that TM is a tools that brings the pleasant state much faster than karezza and is much superior to the latter.

I would rather say TM has built all the inner strength ( such as intelligence, innovativeness, diligence, curiosities, and so on ) to try out an impossible feat that is never known to me before !