I don't want sex (progress)

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I don't want sex.

Well, I do.

A few months ago, I couldn't get enough. Now I have sex pretty much as often as I want with my wonderful partner. She will willingly have intercourse with me every day.

But she isn't at a point where she is really aroused most of the time.

Today is a good example. We cuddled and actually I was having a really good time just snuggling. But I escalated things to intercourse. And she was fine with it but mentally she wasn't there. I could tell. So after a bit I lost interest in that. For awhile, even though she wasn't there, she was kind of into it, but mentally she wasn't really.

I realized I was happier just snuggling and will focus on that tomorrow.

I think my partner, my wonderful beloved, has to find her way to getting those breasts into the game. It will take awhile. There are great signs of progress and I've never been happier. But she is really not that aroused most of the time although she's a lot more into it than she was even a month ago when we have intercourse. A lot more actually.

Yesterday she said she had an erotic dream with me in it.

"What were we doing?" I asked.

"This," she said. I was inside her at the moment. "But more vigorous, really hot."

What we do now is sweet and wonderful, occasionally it's a bit vigorous, but it isn't really hot. And she isn't yet lit up from it. By the way, it's been about 6 months for me and about 40 days for her since the last orgasm.

She isn't really interested much in reading or watching Richardson type videos and I'm doing a good job not pressuring her. We are both really happy and content. She has asked for some gentle suggestions as to building arousal through her breasts and she would practice these, as long as she doesn't have to do any exercises or anything away from the bedroom.

Any ideas?

Topic:

Comments

Hmmm

Emerson, since you're wife isn't interested in learning how to *do* karezza, I'm afraid I don't know what else you can do! (this is similar to what happened with AC and Jesse~~they, the husbands, were into learning and growing, but the wives were not on board~~your wife seems to have *some* interest, though, so that is good!)

It's just impossible to really do karezza properly in a one-sided way. First of all, *you* won't get much out of it...and your wife certainly won't get much, if anything, out of it. The reason is because it's all a matter of the mind (whether it's the mind staying in the present and noticing what the body is doing or the mind keeping the body open, receptive, relaxed, etc.). If she is dreaming about "hot" sex it's because she doesn't know anything else (like 99.9% of the population of women in this country!). When you don't know how to create sensation in your body, you turn to stimulation.

We need to have a tutorial on how to get started with all of this~~to make sure both people are in it together. The one thing all three of you (you, AC and Jesse) have in common is you are writing about all of this on a forum without including your spouse. And I think that might not be the best way to go about things. (for example, even though my beloved doesn't participate here, he does have an account and can read my posts at any time) But I don't know~~I'm just a huge proponent of 100% open communication because I feel you can't have true intimacy without it. (it was lacking in my marriage and I don't want to make that mistake again)

I'm afraid you will not be interested in having karezza sex because you are trying to do it with a partner who is not trying back~~such a difficult situation. I feel for you~~

emotions

Rather than your post saying "I dont want sex" , I believe it should read, "I dont want too much emotion" I just posted about this in another thread. Karezza style sex touches deeper places, places where deeper emotions lie. Conventional sex veers off from these places right at the point of orgasm. Or maybe better put, we touch them briefly through orgasm and then they're gone. With karezza we touch them and then through not orgasming we hold space for them. Space that allows them to move, move where they need to go, down and in, or up and out, depending on the emotion.

This is why non-orgasm love making is best combined with bonding behaviors. Karezza style sex opens up the emotions, brings them out. Bonding behaviors through touch prevents them from getting jammed up, keeps them moving.

I dont know your wife but I do not a bit about human nature and I believe its about the emotions not the sex. The thing I believe thats different between you and lets say Jesse, is that your wife is engaging, sometimes reluctantly, but the fact is she is engaging. If she is willing to engage with you without orgasm, (by the way, never offer to help her have one, you do both of you a disservice in that) and practice bonding behaviors things will move deeper. Maybe a bit slower because of her frame of mind, but give it a year. Things will be much different, those emotions will continue to move, however slowly they do. I strongly believe that the disinterestedness is just an avoidance of deeper difficult emotions. The karezza process WILL massage them forward.

thanks Darryl

your post hit just as my reply to Rachel hit, strange but wonderful!

Thank you for this, very important point. I think you are spot on now that you've pointed it out.

I have an utter delight when I see her and we re-unite in the mornings, and when we watch TV together snuggled up, or cuddle before bedtime. And she has that too, I can feel it and see it. It is just so wonderful looking into her eyes as she smiles at me, such a deep connection.

If I touch her breasts, she laughs. It tickles so. There must be a physical key to this and it will unfold in time. Meanwhile I couldn't be happier.

Darryl, do you have an opinion or observation about how these emotions play out? Or does it just unwind slowly without anyone noticing?

We are thrilled to do tons of bonding behaviors and a lot of non orgasmic intercourse so will that automatically lead to an unwinding or unpeeling away of this emotion you are talking about?

Emerson

This karezza territory is very much uncharted at this particular time in human history. Although it has been explored in the past there isnt much for documented case by case processes. We're all discovering it as we go and add our experiences to the "karezza pot" so to speak.

So, to answer your question about how the emotions play out I can only go from personal experience and observation. With that said, I observe that negative, held emotions, conscious or not will move on out as long as the are allowed to be and not stuffed back down. Sure, open, responsive, willingness is the ideal but we all start from where we are. I think of karezza like a massage. If there's a tight spot we're naturally going to shy away from being touched in that area, but if we let the massage happen, maybe lightly at first, that "knot" will slowly relax. As long as we dont say "no" then the massaging will do the work. Sometimes our emotional wounds need to be looked squarely at and other times we can just let them move through us as a discomfort and breath deeply, who can say for each individual. I cannot say for your wife except to hold the awareness around the emotions.

I still say the key for you is to watch that edge where you start wanting to push her. It sounds like the two of you have made some solid progress around male neediness and feminine lock down. Unless she encourages it I would back off on trying to wake up her breasts. I would let that come later, at least thats my opinion. She's not only holding feminine emotions from her own lifetime but from generations of women before her.

We're all a work in progress.

Quotes

Many possible quotes are coming to mind from this. Here’s a smattering. I'll leave it to the creative to find the ideal variations.

Karezza: Emotional massage
Karezza: Emotional peristalsis
Karezza: Massage for what's inside
Karezza: Life in drive
Karezza: Life in love gear
Karezza: Love in drive
Karezza: Undam the heart
Karezza: Moving at the speed of love
Karezza: Love process engineering

thanks Rachel

I read Jesse's and AC's posts and my situation isn't like theirs. I have an extremely loving partner who has gone with me on this journey after some initial bumps in the road, who is totally on board as best she can be. I don't think that is their situation as I read it, I may be wrong. Things could not be better with us really.

Bottom line, Karezza is something I am completely committed to. This is such a wonderful life now that I lead and the sex and loving is so, so much better. I am sure that my partner feels that way too. I can tell she does.

And she is doing "her part" as best she knows how. She hasn't had an orgasm in almost 6 weeks and is much more responsive when we make love than she used to be, in a way that is hard to define.

She went from "no sensation" to "I feel something". And that is just for starters.

I think she lacks strong motivation to keep growing in this direction, but she isn't motivated to grow into new directions very easily. I would say she has a low enthusiasm for new things, and a non-addictive personality, completely the opposite of me. Without being depressed or anything, just her nature. But once she gets something, she will stay with it for the long haul. She's amazing that way.

And I think she *will* get this.

So I'm very optimistic and patient. I've seen so much progress and growth over the past 5 or 6 months. Sex is amazing even this way, compared to the traditional sex we were having 6 months ago. I'm thrilled beyond belief and I tried to make that clear in my post.

I'm looking now for some simple suggestions step by step I can lead her through when we are lying down. That would be very helpful if you know of some (I'm sure you do) or can point me to a book and page number.

 

I guess I wonder

I guess I wonder why isn't she interested in watching Diana's video or reading about karezza? There is so much for a woman to learn about herself and I have to wonder if it isn't because it was *your* idea?

It's less about a step-by-step process (do this, do that) and more about understanding the concept behind it (which is why I feel it's so important for her to want to understand it rather than you telling her what to do).

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like there is something going on there...some reason she doesn't want to delve into it.

I'm happy you are so positive (I must have taken your post wrong because that was not what I got from reading it the first time)~~the title of your post must have been what gave me the wrong impression.

And I'm sorry, but I get so frustrated seeing how much the husbands on this forum want to make this work, but are with an unwilling partner (Jesse's last post made me so sad for him). I'm glad your wife is connecting with you this way, Emerson.

yeah I'm pretty lucky

I have to thank you all for helping me so much. I can't believe Darryl did this all on his own with his lovely wife. I couldn't have done this without you. And things are so good here. I'm grateful every moment of every day.

This will all work out with time as it already has. I will ask my delightful partner if she can focus next time on her breasts as we make love. Maybe that will help. Whatever, it doesn't really matter as we are making great progress and I'm having a delicious and wonderful time. Each time I see my beloved my heart jumps, it's just amazing. I couldn't be happier really.

Breasts

Emerson, it's not really that she needs to "focus" on her breasts...it has to come from inside her...she should be able to feel the energy rise up into her breasts and out. (Diana explains it so much better and that's why I truly wish your wife were interested in reading about it or watching her video). And it's something that might best be learned hearing it from another woman.

If you touch her breasts without her first feeling the energy from within on her own, it may feel ticklish or sometimes even painful (like a breach of trust) and she could become defensive. I've said this before but there is nothing that can be done from the "outside" of her body that will make this happen. It's an energy/recirculation that has to happen in order for her to feel the connection between her breasts and her vagina.

It's such a shame she isn't participating in this forum along with you...I know Darryl's Annabelle participates sometimes as well as some other couples, too. We're all constantly learning from each other. It's so good to have both partners involved in the process.

It's worked for us

I've read Marnia's book, and all of the Richardson's books.  My partner tried to read one of the Richardson's, and after reading a few chapters, he gave it back to me, and said he would not read anymore of it.  And I totally understand why, as I also struggled my way through all of her books.  It's not that everything in them is wrong, and I'm not saying the books are without benefit - not at all, but I think it's harder for some people than others to get past the use of language that speaks from a spiritual/super-natural view point rather than a science or technical based viewpoint. 

But that has *not* prevented us from enjoying numerous benefits from the practice of slower, cooler sex without the intention of orgasm.  We understand the chemistry, and know the effects of the cascade of neurochemicals that are there to further the propogation of the species. We realize that the more bonding we engage in, the more oxytocin we generate, the closer we feel, the more loving we are and the better we handle our life in general.  Sometimes we felt like we failed if one, or both of us orgasmed, but measuring our selves against someone else's experience was counter productive. We're not competing with anyone for the perfect Karezza prize.  If what we were doing made us more loving, more relaxed and happier, that what we were doing was the right thing for us.

I really like not being in a hurry to get anywhere. Less stress, more love. That's all I ever wanted. 

Quizure

As I read this

I feel (horribly) that you, Quizure, or anyone might think I somehow don't believe "slow sex" has its benefits~~I really do. And I'm happy that you and your partner have found a good spot in your lives and sexual relationship.

But I'm just trying to address Emerson personally...he says he does not feel his wife is *there* mentally and that bothers him to some degree. And I'm just saying that if she doesn't want to learn about the most basic concept of tantra (not karezza because I do feel there is a difference), then he is not going to get what he is hoping for.

Yes, he will have warm, loving sex, but if he wants his wife to be as engaged (on a spiritual level) as he is, then she is going to have to share the journey and the learning.

I feel certain that that the sex he is having now with his wife is a thousand times better than what they had in the past, but it seems he is hoping for more (and more *is* possible)~~but as long as he's happy with things as they are, then that's wonderful. But that's not the feeling I get from reading his posts and ultimately, it could become a wedge of friction between them if it isn't resolved.

So I guess I will bow out of these discussions for awhile as I don't think my words are helpful at this point (I'm sad that *anyone* would think this is a competition of any sort and that I might have had something to do with them feeling that way~~so sorry). Sad

Please, you shouldn't bow out at all. Everyone loves you!

I would just hope that others don't shy away from Karezza if the spiritual nature of the Richardson's books are not compatible with their chosen religion or belief system.  Gary's information about the addictive nature of porn is based on what we know about the brain changes during addiction. That's how most people end up here.  

For those of us who have been in long term relationships, it really takes time to repave the old pathways, which I think are like as well worn as the porn pathways in some of us. Where the Richardson's shine are for folks who love to dive into something new and exotic with both feet, and where both of them are open to the more spiritual based viewpoint.  I am obviously more open to this than my partner is, or I wouldn't still be here, nor would I have read all her books,  but I would rather happily stay where he is, than to try and run ahead without him, and feel a little disappointed that he's not running with me.

Emerson - sorry for hijacking your thread.  If you want, I could move these posts out of it, and into another thread. 

Quizure

It's funny~

Quizure, I don't consider using the mind/body to achieve energy flow as either spiritual or religious or a belief system~~I actually see it as scientific in that it works if you do it (and if you have a mind open to trying it). My lover is by no means a person who does yoga or meditation (or much of a reader, even), but he understands and feels what happens when we use our minds to direct our bodies' flow. It creates a sexual experience like none we've ever experienced.

When I joined this forum it was not linked to the porn user site and so the conversations were sometimes very deep and so very interesting...and we didn't have to worry about "triggering" anyone~~it felt much more free, I guess. I sometimes go back and read those discussions as they fascinate me and I wish we had more people here discussing sex outside the neurochemical realm.

I am a very pragmatic person and you would think I am very conservative in real life. I think the Richardson books have a place in *any* person's life who is wanting to not only create a stronger bond with their mate, but find pleasure within them that is literally out of this world! (who doesn't want that?)

Anyway, thanks, Quizure, and I also apologize to Emerson if his thread was hijacked.

Make here what you want just

Make here what you want just like the porn users did. Trigger warnings are precautions. One is far more likely to find stronger triggers elsewhere. The deeper discussions help move along any porn-free journey too.

thank you

Rachel, thank you so much for your replies. It would make me very sad if you bowed out here, as I value your contributions so very much.

I'm reading Tantric Love Letters and it is reminding me that Tantra is all about being present and aware. As the 1/3 of the book by Osho that I have read says, the Buddha says love yourself and watch (I haven't gotten much further than that but that's pretty good right there.)

So I'm loving myself and watching. And not trying to get anywhere. I think that's the key. I am thrilled to be here, in this forum, in this life, and I am extraordinarily happy.

The question might be, why do I continue writing and blogging here? Am I unhappy or dissatisfied in any way?

No, it isn't that I'm unhappy or dissatisfied. This is a journey without a destination for sure, but I'm well along the journey now where the rewards are staggering and there is no question of going back to where I started from. I am extremely happy.

Best reason:  I feel this is helpful to discuss the journey and get your comments, bottom line. This thread is very helpful. I learn a tremendous amount here and I am so grateful you have no idea. Maybe others will learn from this too.

My partner is not the type to go on forums and having here share this with me is not really an option at this point. She relies upon me to do homework on new stuff but once she gets it, she really gets it. We are both getting it right now. I don't feel I'm above her in any way. In fact I think she teaches me so much by just being a woman who receives me and doesn't impose or push in any way.

I understand

I'm glad you're extremely happy and I hope you continue to share your journey! And again, I'm sorry if I read your words wrong or assumed you were not happy.

Take care~

one thing I am learning

This Karezza experience has taught me about giving someone space, about letting people come to me. I am in a pushy profession, and so my professional instincts (not a coincidence) are to push.

Now I've had to learn how to let my wife come to me. How to have her come to me for comfort. How to be non threatening and not always wanting something.

Yesterday we just snuggled. Actually, she asked me if I wanted to come in but I knew she didn't really want that, so I didn't. Today we had intercourse for probably longer or as long as ever before. I realize more and more how much trust is building up (in an already high trust relationship) as I don't push my wants on her.

Now that's progress LOL!

Lineage

I think you and your wife are doing fantastically well (as you must know yourself). She and you obviously run at different speeds, though. I suggest patience! While our stories are very different, I think our partners share certain attributes. My wife is uninterested in learning (in any formal sense) more about Karezza than she already knows, which isn't much; but she's happy to follow my lead. That's just how she operates. I've noticed over the years how her attitude changes not through the acquisition of knowledge or even deliberate experimentation but mostly by absorption.

There seem to be several Karezza 'lineages'. There's Stanley Bass, as you know, and also Noyes, Lloyd and Stockholm. Then, there's the Richardsons. Bass enthuses about the sheer quantity and quality of the orgasms of those at the receiving end of his prowess, so obviously he is not encouraging them to embrace coolness.  iI've never got the impression from the earlier writers that anything was required on the female side other than helping her male partner (and possibly herself, too) remain non orgasmic. It's worth remembering that this approach (Stockholm, Noyes lineage) began as a means of birth control. In other words, the delightful repercussions later written about were a result of no particular technique, apart from avoidance of the danger zone. The key element seems to have been that this avoidance was continued over an extended period of time.

It sounds to me as though your wife is more than happy, or at least willing, to remain non orgasmic, but without wanting to have to think more about what she is doing than not getting you or her too heated. So maybe she's following the 'middle way'. You're obviously not aligned with Stanley Bass; I sense you sympathise with the Richardson view, mostly. This seems to demand more of those involved than merely avoiding orgasm. How is your wife with the idea of 'energy'? I mean, some people (and the scientific part of me) scoff at the idea, which can only inhibit its flow.

Personally, although I've spent most of my life in the company of people sympathetic to the notion, and although I've been at the receiving end of more energy 'treatments' than I can remember, I've never knowingly experienced even a trace of anything I could not attribute to other, much more ordinary explanations. Although I am still a believer, and don't agree with the author's sentiments, many people would find this spot on:

http://brucetholmes.com/TwoCents/TwoEnergy.html

Have no idea

Sood, I have no idea what that guy is talking about (he just seems cynical and bitter)...but I can sit here while I type and move energy through my body (breasts to vagina) and have it feel very sexual (my vagina will pulsate when I do this after many months of practice)~~and I am absolutely certain I'm not a "magical" person, so I guess I'm just plain crazy, lol. Is there some "scientific" explanation for it? Who cares? Smile

As I said above, it's more about having a mind *open* to trying it than anything else. So many things in this world are dismissed because they aren't "scientific enough" and that's too bad.

For everyone here who "scoffs" at the idea, I guarantee you won't be able to get the flow going because you already have discounted it!

Open heart, open mind, open relationship = endless possibilities.

I've always been a bit

I've always been a bit bewildered when so-called scientific types say they don't believe in energy, because energy is recognized in so many forms in physics. I think we need to distinguish between the energy that science recognizes and the supposedly more woo-woo forms of energy mentioned amongst people in spiritually-oriented circles. I believe that the difference between scientific energy and spiritual energy, and whether or not they are peceived as "legitiamate" or "real", has everything to do with the fact that subjective, firsthand experience has been systematically rooted out as a valid way of getting information (since at least the time of the witch trials).

This is actually a HUGE problem. And its a truly goofy one too. If people consistently through thousands of years experience what they call energy, then the issue may not be whether the energy is real, but whether they have been culturally sanctioned to feel it. There's the problem, if you ask me. The idea that the only truth that exists or is real is that which is repeated or perceived through an instrument or demonstrable across a broad swath of average people is what we call monoculture. And science, as a tool used by culture to determine what is legitimate experience and therefore behavior, does like dry, static, straightforward, bland monocultures.

All of this, eventhough we already know that the person doing the experiment, their subjective beliefs and expectations, affects the outcome of the experiment! So this idea that the world is mechanistic and objective, or that things like the subjective "energy" people feel is an illusion, has already been disproven by science's own methods. No matter how hard we try, we can't avoid being our own little particular filter, our own little particular singularity and point of view, whether we are meditating or running an experiment. Why not just stop the bs and start to embrace this face? Because disowning the subjective is part of a program, a worldview, a paradigm, and we know these things die hard. They die hard because they developed out of necessity and contextually were really relevant and useful at one time. Until they not only are not useful, they are actually very outmoded. This old program and paradigm is also so bipolar it can't integrate seemingly opposing pieces of information at once - either its true, or its not. This is mechanical, computer language, the language of the nervous system - yes/no, true/false, 0/1, good/bad, valid/invalid, real/illusion, objective/subjective. But really its all awash, amix, atwixt, intertwined, embedded. These polarities are making love while we squabble!

I believe that it turns out that there is actually much much more going on than this basic bipolar operating system, which doesn't in any way begin to touch the magnificent mystery of this intelligence that is life. ANd this other way of being is much more integrated and foundational, and preexists the dualistic view of life. I think that spiritual worldviews are much healthier, since they encompass and embrace the seeming duality. I know many spiritual people who feel energy and are also very scientifically minded, and this is not paradoxical. You don't have to choose. And if you do choose between the two, you might be missing out on a lot. For example, I'm sure that no doctor of oriental medicine would dispute that the "Chi" people feel after 15 minutes of exercise is not related to increased circulation. But would disagree with it being "just" increased circulation. They already recognize that chi follows blood, but this does not discount chi.

So the interesting thing about subjective experience and giving it validity again, ceasing to operate from a mechanistic worldview, ceasing to be subservient to cultural trends that seek to make illegitimate our own firsthand experience - is that we begin to start to take more responsibility for where we place our attention, start to notice how this change in attention affects what we feel physically. This is when we begin to notice energy, become conscious of pathways, preexisting flows of intelligence that can amplify through the help of our state of mind/attention.

I think that this "energy" or "chi" that people feel is basically the intelligence of life as it is felt when the subject has developed a subtle enough attention to use their conscious mind in a deliberate enough way to notice their own experience and how the feedback loop between the mind and body works. This is the project of reintegrating mind and matter. Amazing energies are accessed once we stop divorcing the two. The basic willingness to feel the intelligence and life already pulsing through the body, and to see how this flow changes or is less accessable depending on how we think, is a really big project. Infinitely mysterious. So much more rich than attributing everything to outside forces. And that is what is controversial, and that is why developing awareness is discouraged: it means people start to become empowered when they recognize their own life force and their own ability to tap into it, and how attention is an access point to universal intelligence.

Yes, I say universal intelligence. Because the science of neuroplasticity and placebo effect increasingly make clear that it is not our brains that produce intelligence, but rather that we are in a soup of intelligence, and our own brains are actually little more than a filter. So it become extremely important to fine-tune the filter, because the feedback between our filter brains and the intelligent soup, I am sure has an effect on the soup too. Let's be intelligent with the fact that the whole world is intelligent. Let's not reduce it down, but explore it. And when we're willing to do this I think we discover energy pathways, basically, less-condensed forms of matter that are not normally on our radar unless we allow our attention to become more spacious and porous.

:-)

I was reading this post and thinking to myself "this reminds me of Hotspring's writing~~so beautiful! How blessed we are to have another woman who can create such lovely words!" and then I did a little digging and realized there could only be one Hotspring! (I'm not sure how I missed your first blog posts as Bianca, but I'm glad I found them)

Anyway, I love the thought you put into this and thank you for writing it!

Thank you Rachel. I am so

Thank you Rachel. I am so glad too that you are here in this forum, with all of your wisdom, experience, and elegant flourishes ~~~~~~

I was meditating last night no my post and despite the post's length, or maybe because of it, I don't feel I really honed in on why or how attention is related to energy. I think it comes down to the fact that science may understand energy from a phsyics perspective, but it still doesn't know what consciousness is. When I speak of universal intelligence, I am speaking of Consciousness with a capital C. And the universe is conscious.

The problem of the integration of mind and matter is only a seeming one, I think. It's my opinion that all thoughts and beliefs are material. We think mind and matter are different because the machines we develop to detect matter and energy are not sensitive enough. But our own minds are. That is why, I think, people throughout time have observed "energy" that science hasn't cought up to yet. It's an issue of spectrum. Most people's instruments, antennae, experimental apparatus, is tuned to a very narrow bandwidth, but the "machinery" (the body) is capable of much, much greater sensitivity than we allow. So much sensitivity, in fact, that we have to develop filters to handle it all, otherwise its information overload.

The bandwidth of what a human being is capable of experiencing is, I believe, as big as the cosmos, but we have to develop the capacity to handle so much energy, and we haven't yet. But this doesn't mean the bandwidth we aren't sensitive to yet doesn't exist. We accept, for example, that the spectrum of light is much broader and more expansive than the visible spectrum, eventhough we have no firsthand experience of this. We accept Science's word for it. Imagine if we or science did the same thing for everything else? Assume that if our apparatus or inquiry can't grasp it or prove it, it probably does exist and is real. So much of what we take as real, proven by science, we have no firsthand experience of or even rational understanding of anyway. So what's crazier? I say, counting on firsthand experience is less crazy and more "real", in the very real sense of living it.

But this still doesn't explain perception of energy, and what energy is. Just as in physics, I think that people who feel energy in their body as a result of where they place their attention are actually feeling the material impact of the matter of their thoughts interacting with the matter of their body. So that would explain the ability to sense energy - the impact and feedback of two things coming into contact (relationship!). And then matter, as we know, is infused with infinite space. This is potential. The combination of matter and potential (emptiness, space) as they dance results in energetic patterns of all kinds. Why this dance is intelligent, and what is conscious behind and within that dance, is a Source that may remain always conceptually challenging, but which can be felt directly. This is the miracle. It's actually unavoidable. There is no way we could not be connected to Source. Let's let it in and get juicy!

Sood

My wife doesn't believe in the energy thing at all. It's a no go woo woo for her. She seems to believe that the breasts are in important center for arousal. But she isn't all that interested in thinking about it or working on it in any way.

She is of the school that sex takes care of itself. She is willing to concede that she probably got this message from her mom and that it really isn't true and isn't that healthy. But she leaves this stuff to me, in our relationship.

What she really loves is the cuddling and bonding. She doesn't mind the sex and she knows I like it. I'm just being realistic here, that's my perception so far. She still doesn't feel a huge amount in intercourse but is willing to believe that she'll feel at lot more at some point.

And I believe that she will, too. But I don't dwell on that.

I dwell on my feelings and my sensations. I mean, that's what I have something to do with. That's my responsibility, isn't it? I don't mean I'm selfish in how I make love. Not at all. But I take responsibility for myself and focus on that.

Meanwhile when we have intercourse I sense a lot more going on in her body than apparently she does. I can feel a lot going on, much more than in the past.

How to explain what I mean? I feel her vagina and her body doing things, I feel energy sometimes going into her, coming out of her. I think at some point this will bubble up to the surface and it will become a delightful surprise to her. It seems a strong physical feeling to me, and yet she doesn't seem to notice it (yet?)

So patience is the key as you say. Meanwhile, her orgasms have become less and less frequent and we've always been close but we've grown closer. There is far, far less moodiness on her part. There is much more security and positive feelings on my part. I mean the list of benefits goes on and on.

Have you tried taking what

Have you tried taking what you notice and negating it by telling her you don't notice X or Y. This might let any blockages to flow release. Essentially, you could try using the verbal do not think of a pink elephant pattern on something that you sense is there.

I am keeping it very light

I am not her coach but her partner. And I have to respect where she is.

I had this revelation today. It is just a plain insight but it hit me to the core. She was carressing me and I realized, this is the carress that is real, this is the moment that is real. There is no such thing as the next thing, or reaching some next event. That is not real. This carress is all that is real.

This sudden insight is a huge help to me. I'm getting really good at what is, and not trying to move her to what my mind says should be. I think that acceptance and appreciation is what Tantra is all about. It's not about going anywhere. This moment I had, I really absorbed it and "got" it. It was huge for me. I think it will carry forward in my life in everything. It's just wonderful to feel and know that this is the only moment that is real.

And there is nowhere to have to go. How cool is that?

we were talking last night

my partner realizes she isn't that present. She asked me what I think about when I am stroking her and snuggling. I told her how I focus my attention and she says she doesn't really do that. I said, it's a learning experience that you get better with in practice.

When she strokes me, I get quite aroused. When I stroke her, she is just relaxed. That's great, nothing wrong with either one. I think that she relaxes as her mind wanders all over the place. I am sort of edging when she strokes me, which is fine also but not necessarily a replacement for just relaxing.

So I guess, I can learn how to better relax when she strokes me, and she can learn to focus her mind better when I stroke her.

We both are learning.

Sometimes when she strokes me I lay on my back. She won't lay on her back though, because she is insecure about breast touch and so forth. I said, you'll get there in time when you get there.

She is learning about focus on her body. She is puzzled by the idea of focusing her mind on something internal. It just is something she's never done or thought about before.

I said, I focus on the root of my penis. Maybe you can focus on relaxing your pelvic floor. We spoke about that a little.

Anyhow, it's cool to see her interest in this flower at its right rate and time. I really and not pushy about it in any way.

 

Lovely developments

in your relationship.

One suggestion: Next time you have the opportunity to suggest a focus of attention for your wife, please suggest her breasts and especially her nipples. They are our positive poles and where our sexual energy arises. This will be a more effective focus for her than her pelvic floor.

SnowyOwl

BTW, I read some past posts of yours and others about Karezza and learned a lot. Learn a lot, I should say. I started here about when you stopped posting for a bit, so I'm glad you are back!