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Well, it's been months since I was here last. In that time my husband has more than seven months of rebooting, abstaining from the porn, masturbation and orgasm (PMO) cycle, under his belt. We haven't stuck to karezza totally but we do keep coming back to it for a variety of reasons. And our marriage is light years away from when I wrote my first post, feeling so sad that I didn't have the allure of a cat. http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/fupornwife/newcomer-wishing-i-had-allure...

On the karezza side of things, we did try the exchanges and aiming for more gentle intercourse for a while, but we haven't stayed there. We have been mostly finding our own way and the only rule we've stuck to is no orgasm. And we haven't even stuck to that really! As I said, we've gone through time periods when we were both Oing. But more than just that, I only spent about a month abstaining from orgasm. My husband, on the other hand, has done 40 days, 90 days and then about 30 more days. We had a little accident and now are starting again, with him abstaining. I am also thinking I will also join him but as I am sure most of you well understand, once you get off the karezza train, it's is tricky to reboard. Worth the effort though!

The reason we've just stuck to only him abstaining is mostly due to the fact that he is a PMO addict in recovery. When he orgasms, we both do notice that he slips back into the brain fog. He starts feeling much more tired, has trouble waking up, struggles to concentrate when listening to me and at work and seems to be more down on himself and defensive. It appears to be cumulative. One isn't that bad. But one tends to lead to more and more gets worse and worse.

I do feel very glad we both started out abstaining from orgasm. I don't believe I would have gained nearly as much from the experience if it had been just him.
1. I did notice I do also struggle with mood after an orgasm, but it's not as noticeable as with my husband.
2. It increased the physical sensations I feel. The main thing is that I never used to orgasm from intercourse, only direct clitoral stimulation. Now I experience so much more pleasure from intercourse. I easily have multiple orgasms from intercourse and the internal contractions and fluid gushing provides a lot of pleasure to my husband that he didn't feel before. Obviously this isn't the point of karezza, but this is where our journey took us. Karezza to more tantric sex, I suppose?
3. We both learned that good sex isn't, as we thought before, all about the almighty O. We stopped the frantic focus on the O and learned to enjoy the journey.
4. If I hadn't experienced it for myself I never would have believed what it's like to experience that "I'm done" feeling after sex contrasted with not reaching that place and feeling as if it could go on for hours. (Three hours one time, in fact.) To stop and talk a while and then start again. To only finally leave the bedroom, not because anyone feels done, but because it's time to use the bathroom, eat or move on to another activity. It's an amazing feeling.

The other thing is that my husband has been experimenting with orgasm without ejaculation. This is the karezza website, so that's not exactly karezza, but I thought I'd mention it. Our experience is that if he is able to control ejaculation fully with his pelvic muscles, he can experience multiple orgasms without leaking any fluid, he does not experience the brain fog. If he does leak, even a little, he describes it this way: "I am not sure what it is, but I feel different, as if there was some sort of loss." If he does not ejaculate, however, he says: "the pleasure lasts longer and it seems as though it spreads throughout your body rather than just in the one place."

Again, we're probably getting away from true karezza here, but that's where we are at. And, considering how much better he feels when he Os without E, it does bring up a question in my mind. Is the problem really orgasm? Or is it ejaculation? Or is what he feeling when he doesn't ejaculate, much like what I feel during intercourse, not really a true orgasm? Regardless, what we are doing now works for us and is helping him immensely in his reboot as well as repairing our marriage, so we are happy.

Speaking of being happy. The progress my husband has been able to make is simply amazing. He's been working to talk about his emotions, communicate more effectively in general and is much more loving towards me. One HUGE example may not seem to be such a big deal, but in the past few weeks he's been able to hug me while I am crying with no prompt and it feels like a real impulse from him rather than a robotic, I have been told I must do this so I am doing it, thing. This is amazing for me!! He is currently working to shut down ALL fantasies and any porn flashbacks. Not only is his dedication amazing but it appears to be working. I'm so proud of him!

We still struggle occasionally. I am frequently triggered to extreme anger due to my needs being ignored for 12 years of marriage. So if he's tired or struggling to communicate I assume old him is back, even if it's on a subconscious level, and get very angry. He responds by withdrawing, which of course scares me even more and I get more angry. But lately we have even been able to stop mid cycle and say, hey, this is us getting triggered. I'm sorry, let's stop and look at what happened. We have a long way to go still, but even that is such a huge improvement from where we were!

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Comments

The sacrifice myth

Thank you Marnia. I always appreciate your replies. So many other options! And when we talk to people about this new method, they always, always respond as if we are sacrificing so much! when in reality karezza has ADDED so much to our sex life, nay, our marriage.

That's a great observation

When I started down this path, it wasn't clear to me how skipping the O was going to be a good idea. It seemed ridiculous. The reason I felt that way, and probably why most people do is that I wasn't aware of the cost of the O. And I think it's hard to notice since most adults (I'll speak for the guys anyway) are always having an O within the two week recovery period so there is never an opportunity to observe it and make the connection. Porn [becoming mainstream] hasn't helped either, since it only serves to emphasize the apparent central role of O in sex and by extension, the myth that giving up O is a sacrifice.

The other thing I notice is a pervasive cultural bias that marriage + time = boring sex. The Coolidge Effect is indeed real, but our society has incorrectly attributed marriage as the cause. We have been fed this "alternate fact" over and over to the point where it has become lore, requiring a huge paradigm shift to break free of it. Even now, after years of Karezza practice, I find myself feeling amazed that we can continue to experience ever increasing levels of enjoyment and connection with each other, that our sex sessions are longer and more frequent, and our feelings of affection for one another increase, our moods are way better, and we're just happier people in general!

Because these hurdles exist for most people and are so large to get over, trying to explain Karezza seems to get the same reaction as if I was talking about iridology, astrology or some other equally supersitious idealogy. I have concluded that it's kind of pointless to talk to people about it unless they ask. Instead, I'll just get them a copy of CPA and pray that they read it from cover to cover Smile

So true

I agree. I have mentioned karezza in passing to only a very few people in my life, but only as a part of my husband's recovery and saving our marriage. I do, however, sometimes mention it at nofap.com, where PMO addicts are working to recover. I've had a few people interested and ask questions but the overwhelming response is, you be craaaaaaaaazy! LOL

If you had never tasted chocolate and had never heard of anything but the joys of jelly beans, wouldn't it be kind of silly to flat out refuse to even taste chocolate? To argue passionately that chocolate could never be any good compared to jelly beans? Why not just try a taste of chocolate and see what happens?

I am so thankful that we suspended our disbelief after a member of nofap brought it up, and gave karezza a try. Of course it's not a perfect analogy. It's easy to pop a piece of chocolate into your mouth. It takes more time and the cooperation of a sexual partner to try karezza. My husband and I were in the perfect place to try it. We had already agreed to 90 days of no orgasm for either of us, which at that time we thought meant no sex, and we were both willing to try karezza rather than tough out the 90 days. Still, it's frustrating to hear people reject it so easily, when I know the amazing benefits that are possible when you give it a try.

People are ready when they're ready...

and not before. Beee No need to push.

On the recovery forums, I suspect that a soft sell approach works best. Maybe, "If you notice intense cravings for porn after sex with your partner, you may want to experiment with another approach to sex while you're recovering." Then link to something you like on the subject. For example, there are a lot of stories of recovering porn users who experimented with karezza here: Karezza is for addicts (too)

Pushing never works

Oh I definitely agree. I don't push. I'm speaking more openly about it here because I'm in a place where people understand.

I have written about our personal experience at nofap, added a few other links including to here, and I have a link to that in my signature. I mention it briefly sometimes and say if they want to read more they can read more at the link in my signature. Right now I have a couple people asking me additional questions but I don't go into depth unless I'm specifically asked or I'm writing in my nofap journal.

The thing is, I get the hesitation. When my husband brought up the idea of a hard mode reboot I was concerned it would be damaging to our marriage. But since we agreed our marriage was almost over anyway we decided to try it, even if it seemed crazy. And when I heard about karezza I assumed it would drive a person crazy to have sex but not orgasm. But, again, we decided to try. It is sometimes frustrating to encounter so much resistance, but at the same time I understand it because I was there once!

Thanks

I am very glad you shared your journey with us. You brought up some interesting and important questions. Your sharing is so helpful to me. I am not yet in a relationship, but I continue to explore my own wish to abstain from ejaculation. My first abstention period lasted 98 days, and you are right, once you fall off that wagon it can be tricky to get back on, but I am doing it. You wondered whether what your partner was feeling was even what could be considered a true orgasm. I find that interesting because it's such a subjective experience. It's something I've wondered about. I am pretty much like your partner in a lot of ways so I am glad you shared. Very helpful.

Good for you

I'm glad it was helpful. We are still learning and adjusting and plan to continue doing that on through the rest of our marriage! And that is directly thanks to karezza.

Thank you!

I'm over the moon happy. We, or at least I, tried all the traditional advice. Schedule time to talk, more sex, more dates, be more forgiving, focus on the postive, individual therapy, marriage counseling, tell your partner something you appreciate about them daily ... Nothing worked until discovered the rebooting concept and, soon after, karezza.