Day 67, feeling terrible :(

Submitted by gettinmad on
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hi guys, bad news...

it's 3-4 days i'm feeling very very low and lost all improvements i had around 45 day of my reboot... now I have very bad anxiety, hocd is at its worst, feeling depressed and hopeless...plus, my straight self (if it exists) is very very far from me... I can't feel attraction/arousal/feelings for my wife or any other girl i see, and i'm feeling the urge to fantasize and think about my fetishes to be aroused...
I'm resisting all of this by the way... I have a 90 days goal and i'll stick with it... and if at day 90 i'll feel like crap i'll go for more and more.

My fear is I'll have to reboot forever without obtaining what I want: Being able to get aroused by women (expecially my wife) like I used when I was 20 years old... when I had all my life ahead and enjoying my sexuality and romance.
I can't live the rest of my life feeling like this, I don't deserve it...

Comments

*sigh*

Any thoughts on what might have caused it? Are you engaging in daily bonding behaviors?

Think your brain is just seeking for a buzz and knows that getting you worked up with anxiety/hot thoughts is a good way to make you feel more "alive?"

Those sensitized pathways can take their time to depart...which means spikes are normal from time to time. If they're getting farther apart, you're doing great. Why Do I Find Porn More Exciting Than A Partner?

your brain isn't that simple

it's a lot of different "parts" and there is a deep reptile (old) part (amygdala) that wants the thrill of the forbidden. The newer, more modern part, the prefrontal cortex, is the thinking part that you think of as "you" and this is the part that doesn't want this. This is the part that does the planning and the strategizing. Ultimately, if you don't feed the thrill, it will diminish and your reptile brain won't respond anymore. 

I wouldn't say resisting it is useful. Instead, distraction is your friend. And lots of cuddling is hugely helpful. If you can spend an hour a day/night cuddling and snuggling with your wife, things will move in the right direction so much more easily.

Snuggling with your wife

and keeping things relaxed and not goal oriented. This can actually soothe cravings because affectionate touch releases oxytocin. It has been shown to reduce cravings and withdrawal symptoms in mammals.

Read this article and you will understand better:

The Lazy Way to Stay in Love

Resisting temptation is very hard to do on your own.

Questions about morphing taste!

The first most obvious thing that comes to mind, when thinking about my sudden loss of straight attraction after quitting porn, is that i experienced the reverse thing that most HOCD guys have. I have morphed my sexual taste to straight instead of gay. But a few things are different then most of the stories i read:

1. I didn't gradually morphed during my addiction. Yes, i morped to other areas and fetish but always well within the straight domain and the tastes were not that alien to me and never close to gay. Some i already had during my early teens. I felt like i wanted to explore everything about women and my fetish till the last drop. (Maybe my porn addiction reaches back way before internet and i've been morphing my taste all my life)

2. I acted out my fetish. On a regular basis a had sex with women that fitted my fetish.

3. I had some doubts about my sexuality before internetporn came along (HOCD?). But they were nothing compared to current confusion. Very short lived and not so strong and straight dominated. If i look at my life i think 99.99% of my all my orgasmes were on straight thoughts, porn or real sex. (accept for last months after quiting) So i didn't start out a porn addiction as a fully gay male and then morphed my taste.

My question:
Did the straight guys who morphed to gay/shemale porn, that rewired successfully after quitting, experienced a total change in orientation in a sense that they felt attracted to men on all levels. Physically and emotionally or on romatic level. Were there accounts of acting out this morphed taste or was it pure fantasy. And did they lose there straight attraction or was it a parallel thing? Did they still have straight sex? Could it be possible to even get married to the wrong person on morphed taste/orientation?

My answer is no.

I think porn addiction can twist your sexual tastes but can't make you love and marry the wrong gender... so, i think you are analizing and trying to rationalize what happened to you.
I have a question for you:

When you lost attraction to women, did you noticed spontaneously a true attraction for men, or was it more like "i can't feel attraction to girls anymore... oh my god I must be gay!" ?

Here is my theory:

- You decided to stop your porn addiction due to personal reasons
- Stopping an addiction plays with your neurochemicals and it's very common to have a drop in sex drive.
- You noticed this drop in libido and panicked, and your old doubts about sexual orientation re-surfaced
- Then fear and anxiety produced by gay sexual thoughts (hocd tests) made you have erections and sexual arousal

hocd made me feel i was 100% gay, but the difference between me and gay people is that when I was living my heterosexuality i was enjoying it and i was 100% happy about it. I felt truly in love with women and it was the best feeling in the universe. Now it's all about sadness and anxiety even if there is gay sexual arousal.

Hard to tell

THX for the respons gettinmad. How are you these days?
It's hard to tell, answering your question, if my arousal to men came spontaneously. I know that before rebooting this gay fear thing was on my mind a few times but i was so straight back then that i could not take the fear seriously and i wasn't that anxious about it. But on the other hand i know that the first onset was a dream, few days into reboot, where i almost kissed a good friend and there was sexual tension. The following days i started checking and MB on those thoughts and from there on it went crazy. But no porn!

So it was very sudden shift. Although i had some short lived doubts in the past I always thought it was the taboo thing. The aroused taboo feeling for men i only had a few times in 40 years up till now. Say: 0.001%.
I always loved the female qualities. I found it a turn off when women legs were not smooth. The curviness i loved and never felt anything for hard, hairy and musculair body. This line has been crossed after 40 years.
It's not as strong as used to be with females but those feelings and preferences are gone. It's this combination that makes me want to stop living because i'm a new unknown person. I feel all my thoughts and experiences were a lie and are now worthless. Somebody pushed the RESET button on me.

I'm still in pain. I have these gay urges especially in the morning. My dick response to it but never to the extent that it's fully erect. The aurosal feelings are different then i'm used to. Can't explain exactly but maybe well fear driven. The best hardon with precum i had with my girl a few times in the last months.
Relicts of an old live or just conditioned to her. I don't know. But these moments are few and they always come as a suprise. But i can't enjoy it anymore because if i dwell on it usually there's a big dissapointment the other day when the gay urges come back. In the morning when i have semi-erections it' alway feels like their directed towards men. That's so strangs to me. Having an semi-erection in the presents of my wife and not having sex. Never had this in my entire live 40 years old and never thought it would be possible. I never had any attraction towards male body, torso, or penis. But looks like it's on it;s way. That's something that's so hard to accept cause i'm programmed for 40 years towards another gender.
But it also touches me on different level. If no male energy for work or other achievements like sport or
protecting your family. (Feeling like kicking the crap out of a buglar or someone who harms your wife)
That basic feeling that i had all my life as a MAN faded. Sometimes it feels like i'm possessed or something.

In the beginning i thought i'm gonna fight this only if it's a small change i get my good feelings for girls back and get back in touch with OLD ME. But as months pass i hardly remember these feelings anymore.
Seems i'm getting used to this shit. Almost another shock if it would happen.

I'm in deep shit and because of my loved ones and my medication/therapy i'm still here and will fight and fight to get better.

ONE DAY I"LL HAVE PEACE OF MIND THAT IS CERTAIN!

If you want

to see if the unfamiliar urges will go away...stop "testing" and stop worrying about them.

The angst changes your neurochemistry and gives you a "buzz" that feels sort of like sexual excitement. (Ever heard those stories about guys getting erections from being hanged?? I doubt they're thinking about sex.)

Your brain may be playing a little game on you in its pursuit of dopamine. If it can activate this anxiety-based brain loop of "analyzing your feelings for men" or your "fears about changing orientation" you produce the neurochemical buzz it is seeking. Now, you have wired that loop as an "arousal pathway."

If you keep activating it, it will remain. Brains are plastic. If you stop activating it, it has little choice but to fade away. But you have to be consistent for several months.

If, at the end of that time, you still feel your orientation has changed...so be it. But stop letting your brain push you around in the meantime in pursuit of a buzz. Give those pathways a rest.

Have you read The Brain That Changes Itself? Here's the chapter on sex: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/doidge-on-pornography-and-neuroplasticity

I'm in the same boat

I'm just going with the gay stuff for now. And the changes with my girlfriend constantly about her appearance, our relationship, etc. Meditation is good because you stop those thoughts and replace it with the breath. If I didn't meditate, I would probably go crazy because I wouldn't give my brain a break.

My 2c

In the thick of my addiction, i spent 2 years acting out a gay role. I went to clubs, made gay friends etc. But i feel sure that i am straight, was before and back to living so now. What changed?

Well for me it was about an emotional issue that had its roots in my childhood. My parents left me with a legacy of abandonment issues, that played out as a toxic brew of shame and sensitivity to rejection. No more Mr Nice Guy is one of the best treatments on this, also Joe Pearces, The Magical Child.

Once i accepted that my abandonment issues were causing me to act out in a submissive manner, and thats what led me into the gay world, were being submissive is easy, where people would actually want me, and then after i really got Marnias cupid hypothesis, i started to take charge of my life back and naturally dropped back into the straight world where i belong.

Now with my partner I have never been happier. Rebooting, bonding, and karezza are just the best things i have learned in my life so far. I survived, where as before i had bad depression, and little will to live.

We are all unique and so i have no idea what you guys situations are, but all the best with your journeys.

Damn, TH, that spikes me, haha

How long have you been in your straight role? For a long time? Do you have gay urges? Are you gay deep down inside? Sorry to pry, but I hope the same doesn't happen to me. It might, but I'm really scared of it.

Angsting

I suppose i dont need to say that theres not a lot of point angsting about ones orientation. But some pretty funny things go on inside our big ol brains...

Musician, this was all about 10 years ago. Acting gay meant men would 'love' me, when women would not. Of course porn escalation was also involved. But it was a fun time, in which i healed a lot and as they say no real harm done.

But it got more complicated. I self assessed (using Sandra Bems assessment tool, which you can find online if you hunt around) as androgynous slightly feminine, bisexual but more attracted to women. Bem makes a essential distinction between gender and orientation. So that made me kind of a lesbian in a mans body sometimes known as a guy dyke. I had no urge to change physical sex, no cross dressing urges nothing like that, it was just a feeling of wanting to be submissive, domestic etc.

After a series of failed relationships, i went to a gender councillor, because i was so confused. She put it to me straight up, was i like this because my maleness was somehow broken? I didnt want to consider that at the time and her comment sat all those years until i discovered Cupid and karezza and no more mr nice guy, etc and that was 6 months or so back now, and i feel happy to be a man, living with a women. Its just wonderful.

And you would be happy to go

And you would be happy to go on living with a woman? And practicing karezza? Do you have the need/urge/desire to be with a man again? I mean, I would love that for myself. To be able to practice lovemaking/karezza with my girlfriend, and to be happy in my relationship. To not have urges or whatever/anxiety for men.

I woke up this morning from a phone call from a man I like (hopefully, not in that way!), and since I was relaxed and not spiking at the moment, I got an immediate semi, in a way that a woman's voice doesn't do for me. I've been shot all day because of this, but it doesn't make me feel any less gay. I have this spiritual love for women and this drive to be with them, but it seems my body is telling me otherwise. I just want to cry sometimes, and when I feel my body become more aroused by women I get really happy. But then it all goes away.

I hope these are all dopamine cravings after not having sex/quitting porn, and that I'll feel much better and will connect a physical reaction to women and men won't concern me, because it's not what I really want for some reason, in spite of what my body's telling me. And I hope it's not denial, though it might be.

I grew up loving women exclusively. I just want that back, and I hope CPA can help me connect with that, if I am really straight that is. Stupid erections.

Remember, you have wired

angst to sexual arousal...just as you have wired "testing" to sexual arousal. You are still engaging in both, and it may simply be because your brain thinks angst and testing are the target (because they give you such a predictable buzz).

For now, try not to "angst" and try not to check for "test" results. Just enjoy the erection (and let it pass) without "wiring it" to any emotions.

Disconnecting is really hard

Because it's the scariest thing to have an erection to. I panic because of the implications, though I hope erections are just erratic creatures, and this all means nothing. If I know it means nothing, I'll just laugh really hard at the silly games my brain wants to play with me.

Yes, there are lots of things

we'd all like to know with certainty...but if you think about it, because anxious doubting is the disorder, what would you ever accept as proof (externally)? Nothing.The minute your anxiety blows up again all the past reassurance flies out the window.

You have to heal this from the inside by reducing the anxiety and refusing to "reward" your brain with the neurochemical buzz of angst.

Once you're like a calm, smooth lake...all will be obvious. But the brain loop of anxiety-->rewarding feelings must resolve itself first.

the penis has a mind of its own

men have no control over their erections, period. No control. None.

And erections come and go on their own without any conscious meaning at all.

They are more likely to come and go with triggers that go deep in the oldest part of the brian, the "croc" brain, with a smell, a taste, the feel of a woman in a sexual context. But they happen on their own. Men think they have control over them but they do not.

Testing and anxiety about erections serves no purpose because you don't control your erections. Just as you don't control your thoughts. 

Breaking the cycle.

THX. I know i have some cards up my sleeve. Quiting all the fora's, mediation, sports and getting my life back together (work and social activities). I also have some serious underlying issues that could be the cause. Altough i'm very afraid that being gay is that underlying problem and not the other way around.

Because i've been stripped from my identity i have no ground to stand on, no energy, no motivation, no confidence. That's why it's so hard beaking this cycle but you'll knew that already.
Like musician said i'm going crazy. Thinking about cutting myself or beating my head to the wall.
Marnia, i know i have to play one of these cards soon and stop 'testing' and 'worrying'.
I think i can accept it for a while for the sake of getting better but in the long run the so-be-it-attitude you mentioned is not for me. Will see what time brings and i've yet to know this new me and see how he reacts.

I see it this way:
I have all these associations towards my wife and kids (my whole life) that don't work any more or far less. Meaning that they don't deliver the same feelings of joy, worry, exitement, hapiness or arousal etc...
The feelings are gone but the associations, the triggers are fired anyway by the brain. The triggers i can't stop that's how the brain works. You'd be brain dead. I must try and stop searching for these feelings actively when a trigger fires and doesn't bring me (my brain) what i want. That's where it goes wrong and the 'testing' and stuff begins. That's when it goes looking for other options available to reach the same feelings anyway.

It means i have to accept that life is different now, less pleasurable and empty then before.
At least for a while! Stay active and hope for the feelings to get back.

I WILL NOT QUIT UNTIL ALL MY CARDS ARE PLAYED

I kept myself straight!

I drifted so far off that it is not fare to say i'm straight anymore. I don't even know those feelings anymore.
There defenitly has been some rewiring done all the sexual cues, most of them with me as long as i can remember, don't lead to arousal anymore. GONE! All my orgasmes for half year now are gay dominated.
Mostly fantasies but never had an erection in presents of a man. But the erections are getting stonger
and the feelings in my balls are not there when i think of straight things.

This is my theory of how this could happen:

1. Childhood and teens were completely straight.
2. Mid tweenties had my first mini orientation crisis. Straight feelings were always dominant. A few times MB over men. Scared me shitless though but no deep urges or romantic attractions. Also sex with girlfriends.
3. Since 2001 .More then decade straight huge internet addiction. I developed some deviant fetish of some kind but always straight and parrallel with vanilla stuff. Acted out those fetish feelings. Also sex with girlfriends. No gay feelings. I even married with true intentsions.
4. Quit the addiction this year and half year time periode straight feelings vanished and only gay orgasmes. Never watch gay porn by the way.

Maybe the worst case scenario came true. That 'mini crisis' mentioned (2) was in fact me becoming gay but subdued by the addiction(3). But underneath it grew stronger. So it could be that i plunged into full gayness when i stopped without having a clue (4). I wired myself straight but it felt natural and therefore harmless.

Altough i've been very sexual all my life it was not until recently, almost 40 years, that i first felt
dominant sexual and emotional feelings for a man.

So my final conclusion is: I kept myself straight! and was very succesfull in doing so. I dont't think it can be reversed so easily but it can be done. Some of you might say "Well when i look at those for points you can't be gay". I cannot understand it and i it makes me almost vomitCould be but i get signals that tell me otherwise and i reached a point that a have to face the facts.

I hope i ccome back and feel better. good luck you all!

Just know that

whatever you orgasm to strengthens that pathway in your brain. You seem to think it's your "deep self" choosing to change, but sexuality can be conditioned by behavior/fantasy/porn choices.

Not easy to sort out, and not something you can do overnight.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

BTW, I'm working on a post about HOCD. If any of you want to read it and give me your feedback, I'd be grateful.

Feedback OK

When And where, marnia?

Musician, i know what you are going through. Wish you luck!
I think this is THE hardest thing to cope.
Rather lose a leg then losing your identity and your GF and all the girls in the world!

I personally can't believe i am gay yet and cannot see me leading a gay life.
Can't believe i become straight either!
But time heals all wounds if there is enough?

My body and mind have been in confined space since this shit started. Checking toughts, past, fora's
Same as the porn period. I wanna get soms distance broad the horizon and maybe maybe there will be a miracle but i am not gonna wait!

I'd love to see the article too

The nasty thing in my case is that I never fantasized about men. I think it may have been that my brain went so far into porn I lost track of reality. The relationship never panned out to my fantasies. So I assumed I was gay for not being involved in my relationship. And since I could never find the joy in my relationship, I dug the hole deeper and deeper with obsessive thoughts/fantasies/trying to get out of it. Getting out of it had the effect of escaping quicksand. I hope this will all be changing with the steps I'm taking. For example, today was bad in the beginning, but later, I began to feel very good, just as my orgasm cycle timeline was coming to an end (whether it's that linear or not, or if it's just a coincidence!)