Forth Tantra / Karezza attempt - She couldn't handle it. Now fuck buddies

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Arranged for her to come round in the evening. She sounded stressed on the phone in the morning so I texted to tell her I would keep dinner in the oven and give her a massage when she got in.

I gave her a full body massage and really enjoyed looking after her, de-stressing her, and giving loving energy. I massaged her whole body from head to toe, including a bum massage. She was just wearing a thong and I found myself working hard to touch that area without turning her on. I was touching all around her vagina but in a way that wasn't meant to tease or heat her up.

We connected for 30 minutes in a still meditation. Staring into each other's eyes, just being with one another in the moment is a very powerful thing. Feeling my penis growing and exploring her vagina. All of a sudden she asked for a break. She said she felt overwhelmed with emotions. She looked on the verge of tears. She found it very hard to explain but just wanted to hug and be close to me. As if she didn't want to let me go. We sleep holding each other and it was a very deep sleep, unlike normal when we share a bed. She told me it was the first time she'd slept properly for weeks. Neither of us had an orgasm.

Tells me she loves me

We were kissing and cuddling the next morning and she told me she loved me. Hearing those words felt amazing. I genuinely wasn't expecting it as she had explicitly told me she didn't love me when we broke up. I had said it to her 3 days before. However she said it still didn't change anything. She still needed to work on herself and had all the same commitment and relationship problems as before. At this point I really opened up. I told her how she made me feel. The fact I was so deeply in love with her and would go to such extents to make her happy. That I saw the potential for something amazing.

The strangest orgasm of my life

We kissed and cuddle and then she gave me a long penis massage and I became really sensitive. She then licked my penis but in a way to confort rather than stimulate. However I was too aroused and told her I was going to cum. I came and then was overwhelmed with this energy. I was literally giggling like a kid and felt this rushing sensation round my body for 5 minutes or so. I really don't know what this was. I felt energised after that orgasm rather than drained.

Saying goodbye

I was leaving to go abroad and it looked like the last time we were going to see each other. Her phone went and she had to go see her friend who was having some problems. She suddenly was overwhelmed with passion and we both found ourselves kissing each other in a way I've never done before. So much energy. She wanted to have orgasm driven sex but she also needed to go.

We were saying goodbye for a few months and she was saying 'Is this the right thing?'. I told her I could fly back to see her. I was willing to hold on but she said we had to move on. She thought that the past few weeks of seeing each other after 6 weeks of no contact had just been respite. Things were still the same. It was such an emotional morning. I left town that day as I needed to get my head straight.

Both on holiday in same place

Four days later and we are both on holiday in the same part of the country. Me with my sister, her with her Mum who was visiting and flown in from the other side of the world. I told her I was happy to meet up and wasn't scared to meet her Mum. She emailed to tell me she couldn't. Her words:

"Seeing you is too confusing, and too hard. Every time I’m around you I end up tricking myself into thinking we’re still together, and then leaving you feels like breaking up all over again."

We spoke later on the phone later in the week for an hour. 30 minutes of laughing and sharing tales before talking about 'us'. She still couldn't verbalise her commitment issues or why she couldn't do a relationship. She said she wants to be with me so much, can't imagine the idea of me being with someone else, and doesn't want to be with anyone else. She was crying down the phone. As ever I didn't understand her issues.

We are both in love, have an amazing time together, a great sex life, have shared so much, and gone through some difficult times together. It's the most intimate either of us has been. She said when alone things are clear in her head but they get confused when she sees me. She told me she would write a letter to explain.

I realised that I am bored of this. I've been patient, understanding, and giving since the start of the year. Yet despite my efforts we are in the same situation. I thought Cupid (gave to her to read) and non-orgasm driven sex might be a cure. I can see it's power, she recognises it but in a way it has left her more confused. She asked if we could just be 'fuck buddies'. After close to a year that's what she wants. That made me angry. At that point something changed in me and my opinion of her.

Fuck buddy rendezvous

I came back to town to clear out my flat before going away. She was back for 1 night before leaving again so we arranged to see each other. Her Mum was staying at hers but she wouldn't introduce me. I felt pretty insulted by that. I texted to tell her to come round in lingerie and to this was just sex, we were not going to talk about us. It's like a light has switched off in my head. I've expended so much emotional energy on this woman and I think I've hit my limit.

We talked for a bit, kissed. She started getting emotional and talking about things in her life but I stopped her. I felt no compassion. She got out her notepad with lots of writing on and told me she had been struggling to write the letter. I told her not to read anything but send it when she was done. Honestly I really just didn't want to know.

She went to the toilet. She came back into my room wearing a long jacket. She took it off and was just wearing some sexy lingerie and knee high boots. I was very dominant and aggressive. I made her cum 5 or 6 times through oral. I made her give me a forced blow-job. I fucked her hard from behind. I came really early wearing a condom, but stayed hard and carried on fucking her. I felt no love. I saw none of her beauty or femininity I saw during our slow non-orgasm driven sex.

We finished and joked around for a bit. I made her cum through oral several more times. Then she gave me a blow-job to orgasm. After I told her to leave. I didn't want her sleeping over. She asked if we could see each other again. I said for sex but that's all. She told me her fear was that I would get bored of this and move on.

This has become unhealthy. I think I need to let go

As sad as it is I feel a change has occurred. I now realise she is completely incapable of giving herself to a relationship. I thought her commitment phobia would be curable with time, patience, and loving affection. I thought that telling each other we were in love was a turning point. I now see the problem runs far deeper. I definitely feel anger towards her and it is not an emotion I particularly like. I think this could of been a great thing. It's such a shame. It's such a waste.

I've made all sorts of plans and am travelling and pursuing my adventure sports for the next 6 to 7 months. I expect to be in town infrequently over this period. I guess I will see her and have meaningless sex. It's simply about satisfying an urge. I sure it's unhealthy and I know I should probably just cut it off. However the sex is amazing. We've always had an unreal sexual connection. Also if I am being honest I still harbour the thought that time might change things. Perhaps I am just deluding myself.

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I'm very sorry for you both

This is sad. All too common, but sad.

The clue to what she's struggling with is in your account. It's the reason women keep their guard up and opt for "sex kitten," which gives them some semblance of control over the relationship.

Here's the clue:

"She told me her fear was that I would get bored of this and move on."

Lots of casual sex leaves people worried about everyone's capacity for commitment. This won't be overcome easily, and not if the two of you keep opting for the hot sex (which has a hangover of neurochemically induced insecure feelings, which also numb you to ecstatic pleasures). Hotspring (forum member) was haunted by this fear for months after she found her current husband.

I commend you for giving her the meds (exposure to the karezza concept)...even if she didn't take the option. But allowing yourself to be drawn back into the old pattern is a step backward. That said, it's normal when couples must be apart to "separate" emotionally too. Kind of a weaning exercise.

Just don't think she's not capable of intimacy. She would simply need longer, and more consistency, and probably for you two to live in one place, to trust you. The opportunity may never come for you and her, but keep this slower time-line in mind for your next relationship. This one has been a huge learning experience for you...on many levels.

Fuck buddies sounds like a really bad idea...if you're asking me. It's the misuse of a relationship with far more potential.

Many thanks for your reply

It's triggered various thoughts.

[quote=Marnia]This is sad. All too common, but sad.The clue to what she's struggling with is in your account. It's the reason women keep their guard up and opt for "sex kitten," which gives them some semblance of control over the relationship.Here's the clue:"She told me her fear was that I would get bored of this and move on."Lots of casual sex leaves people worried about everyone's capacity for commitment. This won't be overcome easily, and not if the two of you keep opting for the hot sex (which has a hangover of neurochemically induced insecure feelings, which also numb you to ecstatic pleasures). Hotspring (forum member) was haunted by this fear for months after she found her current husband.[/quote]

"sex kitten" has always been her identity. I was her first proper relationship and everything before had just been casual sex, and a lot of it. She jokes her bedpost resembles a toothpick. Last year she realised she was not happy with this and so decided not to have sex unless it had some meaning. I met her 6 months into her self-imposed abstinence. She was so starved of touch she wouldn't cuddle me at night. She laughs at that looking back.

She says she always felt like she just gave in to masculine power rather than feeling completely mutual in the experience. I think this is why she finds Karezza so powerful and emotional, if not overwhelming. For the first time sex is equal, it's loving, it's caring, and it's like she just can't accept or deal with it. Perhaps it's a self esteem issue. So as a result she slips back to what she knows, the "sex kitten". A fuck buddy is a safe place for her. A relationship and 'making love' triggers danger signals in her mind.

But there is no danger. I've shown her that I am committed. I wasn't going anywhere. I told her I would make sacrifices to make things work. The barriers were not issues in my mind. I've been completely honest, loving, patient. I've given it time. I know she's judging the future by the past.

[quote=Marnia]I commend you for giving her the meds (exposure to the karezza concept)...even if she didn't take the option. But allowing yourself to be drawn back into the old pattern is a step backward. That said, it's normal when couples must be apart to "separate" emotionally too. Kind of a weaning exercise.[/quote]

I remember her saying we are not having sex like normal (referring to our previous few weeks of tanta / Kareeza). I told her, I'm no longer trying to bond with you.

[quote=Marnia]Just don't think she's not capable of intimacy.[/quote]

I know she's capable of intimacy. She's shared so much of herself and worked to get me to open up. I know she has had some seriously painful experiences in her past. She's let me into many but hasn't shown me the full story. She tells me she trusts me, I trust her. She knows more about me than anyone else on this planet.

It's commitment to a relationship that it seems she is incapable of. I've read into the subject of commitmentphobia and I see so many of the classic symptoms in her. Fear of failure. Fear of something working out. Self-sabotaging. Not wanting to get close to my friends and family, or vice versa. Fear of loosing her self to the relationship.

Short of giving her my books on commitment problems and beings supportive, and giving it time, I don't know what I can do. It seems such a deep seated emotional response that logic and rationality are irrelevant.

[quote=Marnia]She would simply need longer, and more consistency, and probably for you two to live in one place, to trust you.[/quote]

I can fully see that. The effects of just two weeks of Karezza were so palpable. We both shared "I love you's" which we had been incapable of saying before. I had previously thought she just didn't feel it, and in a way that was a blow but understandable. She told me had we not gone through these weeks she would have rewritten the breakup reason in her head and put it down to me just not being right. It somehow created a space where we felt courageous enough to be vulnerable.

I was feeling so connected to her during our experiment. She looked absolutely beautiful to me. I had a smile across my face during the day and an energy racing around my body. We were seeing each other 5 times a week. But she just couldn't seem to handle it. Why does my lady not want to be happy?

I'd love to go travelling with her. We both say we want to so much. I genuinely can't think of anything better. I would refuse to have orgasm driven sex in that situation. Well maybe only on the final night. I struggle with the idea of their never being any orgasm driven sex. I guess it's a tempting vice, just like alcohol. We know there will be a hangover yet we do it anyway. I think it takes a huge strength of character to successfully become fully non-orgasmic.

[quote=Marnia]The opportunity may never come for you and her, but keep this slower time-line in mind for your next relationship. This one has been a huge learning experience for you...on many levels.[/quote]

It's been a fascinating 10 months and as you say I've learnt and grown so much. I guess everyone has their limit though and maybe I've hit mine. She just doesn't know what she wants. I need to start living for myself as she and 'us' seem to consistently affect my life in a negative way.

[quote=Marnia]Fuck buddies sounds like a really bad idea...if you're asking me. It's the misuse of a relationship with far more potential.[/quote]

I agree, it is a total misuse of this relationship. It's taking something filled with love, intimacy, joy, friendship, trust, care, and respect and turned it into the lowest common denominator. Mere pleasures of the flesh. In a way I want to show her this. I want her to see how a purely sexual relationship with me, just like with anyone else, is vacuous and not what she is after.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply

Give it time. Who knows?

It's easy for me to say, "no compromise!" But I'm not in your shoes. Besides, I've often been around on the same carousel. laugh

You have my compassion. Both of you.

Just know that you're a brave, beautiful man.

Intriqued, I'm very sorry to

Intriqued, I'm very sorry to hear you are going through this and yet I want to challenge you. You say you love her, and yet you're willing to use her body to medicate away your pain and to take out your anger and disappointment that you're not getting the kind of commitment to love that you want. You say you love her, but isn't love about being loving, even when someone can't give you what you want? Isn't loving about accepting where someone is at, appreciating their fears and being there to support them, not to play into those fears? Isn't love about also being a friend and do you think you're being a friend to her by allowing her to play out the patterns that have caused this 'fear of commitment'? Do you really want to be yet another mark on the bedpost? Wouldn't that just hurt you more as well?

I say this cause that's the challenge I've had to give to myself, to stay loving even when I'm not getting the commitment I want and I'm ready for and when the person I love is so full of fear he can't see the happiness I believe he could experience. I'm staying loving and I'm so happy I have been. It has been painful, man has it been painful, but I've been rewarded with a friendship that has allowed me to grow in infinite ways. And I feel more optimistic and confident in love than I ever have in my life.

Rachel posted a quote by Osho that's I've felt very useful:

(http://www.reuniting.info/comment/73593#comment-73593)

"Only in the beginning will it be difficult; soon it will become very easy. When there are two persons growing together, many times gaps will arise because people cannot keep pace with each other; everybody has his own speed, everybody has his own unique growth pattern. But if you love, you can wait a little till the other arrives, and then, hand in hand, you can move further."

"These are the real, difficult times~~when you come to know whether you love your partner, and whether your partner loves you, when these great gaps arise between you and you feel you are going far away from each other. These are the crucial moments, a fire test, when you should try to bring the other person who is left behind, closer to you. You should help the other person to be meditative.

The natural idea will be to bring yourself down so the other is not offended. That's an absolutely wrong attitude. You are not helping the other, you are hurting yourself. A good opportunity is being lost. When you could have pulled the other toward heights, you have descended yourself.

Don't be worried that the other will be offended. You make every effort to bring the other also to the same space, to the same meditative mind, and the other will be grateful, not offended. But these are not the moments when you should part from each other. These are the moments when you should make every effort to keep the contact with the other, with as much compassion as possible. Because if love cannot help the other in transforming the animal energies into higher spiritual energies, then your love is not love, not worth calling love."

Many thanks for your challenge

The Osho quote really struck a chord with me and influenced my actions and ultimate decision to say goodbye to her. You're right. I was angry at her and being possessive when that's not the nature of love. I'd tried soo hard and been so patient but ultimately things didn't change.

Staying in the fuck buddy arrangement wasn't making me feel good but more importantly it wasn't allowing her to grow. She was staying in the same place she had always known and her lover had willingly accepted her compromise. And again you're right, it was playing into the patterns of her past.

As hard as it was I realised the loving thing was to let her go - http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/intriqued/i-met-her-2-days-my-reboot-1-year-later-i-said-goodbye-my-lover

thanks Marnia, I sounded a

thanks Marnia, I sounded a bit harsh, so I'm glad your post was there to contradict that. Intriqued, If I sound harsh it's not meant as such. When I read what you wrote, it reminded me in many ways of my own experience - the actions different, but the essence of the experience, and I could feel how painful it must be for you. I just know that it was was so much more painful for me when I was staying in the 'hot sex mentality and O'ing and when I moved into the loving place that I think is at the heart of Karezza, even though I had to go it alone, the quality of my experience increased and the deeper personal/spiritual lessons that I've gained from a separation I never wanted to happen, have been profound. This last relationship I had was short lived as a 'relationship', he was so uncommitted he'd say it never was a relationship, and yet I've grown more from 'getting over it' during this separation than I ever have in my past relationships because of this different approach. I hope I'm making sense.