Stillness causing discomfort

Submitted by Kap on
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Hey everyone, I'm Kap - awesome to meet you :)

I recently found his site and have been excited to begin exploring karezza with my wife. We are both mid 20's, are just recently married and have been together for 4 years. We had a chat about what I had found a few weeks ago, and although she was a bit unsure at first, she has now jumped on board the idea and is enjoying the beginning of this new journey.

Rather than using "she" I'll use a name :) let's go with... Em.

Em and I began the couple of weeks of no masturbation or sex and used the bonding techniqes, which went really well. For the first few days I was quite sore afterwards, but now that my body has calmed down a bit I'm feeling less of this, even after karezza.

Last night was our third karezza experience, and it's been going well. I do have one question though which I haven't been able to find any info on. Once I am inside Em everything is great, and we work on our relaxation. But after around 5-10 minutes, Em begins to get an uncomfortable feeling, which can progress to a burning feeling.

This hasn't happened before (we've been having conventional sex since we met). On our first try of karezza we thought lube might help, but unfortunately after a little while of remaining still, the feeling persisted. We have found that by using a little bit of gently foreplay Em feels more ready, and thing are better for longer, but it seems the discomfort creeps up sooner or later non the less.

Just wondering if anyone has experienced this? At this stage we thought it could be because we are still learning to relax, and the tension still there might be the cause. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,

Kap

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hmmm im gonna follow your

hmmm im gonna follow your blog. im in my 20s too and always wondered what kareeza would be like for young folks/newlyweds.

sorry i couldnt answer your question.

i have a question for you though. how is the kareeza? have you noticed a difference?

what is the bonding behaviors like?

was it a weird transition from the conventional sex? is it weird to penetrate and just stare at each other?

sorry for all the questions, just super curious. im thinking about marriage for the first time in my life and i want to do kareeza with my wifey.

Hey Alpha

The whole "no orgasm" idea is all pretty new to us still, so the differences are pretty small. But I have definitely noticed a difference in how I feel toward Em.

Even though it's only been a few weeks since I started, I'm not feeling any disinterest (coolridge effect), and pretty much everytime Em and I are together, it's like the first time we met :) This continues to amaze me, because I had been worried about my disinterest sometimes and never new why it was happening. So glad to have stumbled across this site!

The bonding behaviours are good fun but are hard at first, because usually that sort of thing leads to sex, and my body knows it. But we have fun with it, and because we both know what the plan is there's no pressure.

The transition is still happening for us, and yeah it is pretty different - especially since we are still not too sensitive (being used to conventional sex). We just talk about what we're feeling and work on our breathing and relaxation.

We're pretty excited about it all and are just trying to enjoy the ride, and if it ever seems a bit weird/different at times then we crack up laughing and it turns into tickle-war :)

this stuff gets better and better

Really glad you are here, Kap, and will enjoy your posts on this.

It gets better and better. It is really crazy how your feelings for her and her for you will just take off exponentially. 

There is so much here to explore. I wish I had an answer for the soreness but I have a question. Is she lubricating at the point when she is sore? Is there plenty of juicy goodness there?

And where is it sore exactly?

 

Thanks emerson

The first time it happened we tried using lubrication though it didn't help. Em described it as being sore inside, but just near the opening.

Thanks for your encouragement :)

I really admire

your willingness to explore.

Does the burning not happen when you're moving? Did it happen with conventional sex, or were you doing it for less time? Wink

You certainly don't want her body to start associating sex with pain (at least not unless you're into that sort of thing...), so I'd listen to the signals and increase the foreplay relative to the intercourse time for now. When it hurts, either move until she's comfortable, or do something else you both enjoy. Quite often things resolve themselves if you just back up a bit. Maybe you'll find more comfortable positions or the "right" side to lie on or....who knows? But go with the flow for now.

How long have you been together? Isn't it fun to feel that magical attraction for each other...but in a sort of level-headed way?

Hi Marnia

We have been together and having conventional sex for about 4 years, and in this time our sex may have lasted anywhere from a "quicky" to 5 - 10 minutes (of penetration), and there had been no pain.

The burning feeling only happens when we are still. In the past when we have been moving and generally heading toward orgasm there hasn't been any pain.

Thanks very much for your advice - I think "going with the flow" will definitely be best so there's no pressure, and things remain fun like they should be :) I think I'll have a chat to Em tonight about practicing some PC relaxation and breathing to see if that helps.

The magical attraction is really exciting!

here's our experience

Funny enough, my wife was sore sometimes pretty much as you describe, and as we have done this longer she doesn't get sore anymore. The last time she said she was sore and we had intercourse and it was fine and she hasn't had any problem since.  It may be completely different, but the go with the flow suggestion is a good one and this should take care of itself with a little time.

This stuff is SO much fun! And really, even without intercourse it's SO cool once you have regained the sensitivity that we were all born with. It si just fantastic and I'm so thrilled you are experiencing it!

Lubrication

You might want to be sure it isn't a side effect of the lubrication (it could even be from the last time you had sex and affect you the next time you had sex).

We were using Liquid Silk with no problems for quite a long time and then suddenly it started causing a burning sensation for me (silicone).

Now we use a completely water-based lubrication (H20 I think it's called).

It might not be that at all, but I thought I would mention it since it happened to me, too.

Kap

Well, if no movement causes pain, how about keeping some level of motion going? It doesnt have to be much, simply enough to stay our of the discomfort zone. Karezza is not a formula so we all adjust it to what suits our pleasure and connection best. My wife and I rarely come to periods of complete stillness. We like a certain level of motion and generally keep it that way the entire time. We follow the pleasure and some amount of movement is what we like. If its painful I would make changes until it feels good.

The Hendersons

In Tantric sex for men, the Hendersons [ed richardsons] talk in several places about discovering sore spots inside the vagina. They say that these are old emotional/sexual wounds, and that the process of slowing down brings them to the surface. Books are cheap these days, definitely worth a read. Might be something in it.

Welcome to the club.

Thanks very much

for all of your replies! We will work on those points and see how things go. I would like to grab a book which covers some of these things, thanks for the suggestion treehouse.

Thanks for those ideas too Darryl and Rachel - we'll look into the H2O lubricant and keep in mind that a bit of movement is still ok. I was under the impression that it was mainly about remaining still, so I'm glad you mentioned that.

Of all the things to be "working at" it's a pretty good one :) I'll keep you posted on how things go next post.

Of the two

Of the two ive read so far, The heart of tantric sex and tantric sex for men, my opinion is that the former is the better introduction. Its beautifully written and well laid out. The latter does have more details in some areas. Thiers two newer books im looking forward to reading, letters and emotions. Their books have helped me make sense of early karezza experiences.

Yes, I think that what

Yes, I think that what Treehouse and Diane Richardson point out could be what's happening with the soreness. It might be that the tensions held in the vaginal muscles up to this point are releasing. Conventional sex, which is friction-based, can lead to muscle tension, especially because when the man is moving faster and with more firm thrusts, the main way that the woman has to prevent him going too deep or to just even deal with that much movement inside is through contraction of the muscles.

Since reading Richardson's book and practicing more slow lovemaking, it's become very clear to me how sensitive the vagina is, so much more than I ever knew, and the ways that the vagina will block this sensitivity (brace against it) if the way that it is being entered is not absolutely gentle, kind, and loving. Of course, women can still feel a lot even with friction, but I think that there's something about the speed of conventional sex that forces a woman to brace herself, especially by tightening the lower muscles closer to the opening, to prevent any insensitive movement on her cervix. Touch on the cervix by the penis that is not totally appropriate can be extremely painful, especially if scar tissue exists there (whether physical or emotional). On the other hand, loving gentle touch on the cervix is the most fabulous sensation.

I myself have experienced a lot of pain in my cervix during even slow deep penetration and I think this was old trauma releasing itself. During and afterwards, my body was discharging with a lot of laughter, which Richardson describes as a natural response to the discomfort that comes with this new level of vulnerability.

If only men knew how much women take in energetically through sex, and how much of that is kept inside - they would realize the need to never enter until their penis was an instrument of absolute love and gentleness. And I do think that once the emotional trust has been established, the woman is truly receptive, faster variation can happen without pain, so long as the intentions remain present and loving.

There's a lot of recovery to do. My only advice: learn to enjoy the healing, the emotions, the vulnerability, and the difficulty of karezza along with the bliss. That's what this path is about, being fully present with what is in a genuine way and through the safe holding field of gentleness, so that it can clear. Don't let it scare you as it surfaces. Being vulnerable is not a skill we are taught to value and so delving into these waters is a real test for the part of us that prefers the safety of performance-driven sex. But it is so worth it!

Nicely said

[quote] learn to enjoy the healing, the emotions, the vulnerability, and the difficulty of karezza along with the bliss.[/quote]

Nicely said.

vaginismus

the way you described the burning feeling is familiar - it sounds like what happened to me during conventional sex and sometimes still a bit during karezza. 

back when it first started happening (in 2007, with my first serious boyfriend) i googled quite a bit, went to the gyno to see if it was related to yeast, tried different organic lubes, and ended up diagnosing myself with vaginismus (a psychosomatic tightening of the PC muscles) after i read www.vaginismus.com.  but that was coming from the western, "something is broken" paradigm, and i can easily see how there can be an analogous interpretation of the same phenomenon coming from a holistic/spiritual perspective, more in line with what people are describing with the richardsons.  i now think of it more as my body telling me that i wasn't doing right by myself sexually, but i wanted to provide that link in case the western paradigm is more coherent to you or your wife at this point.  it's true that it's related to relaxation, but it's an involuntary response, like blinking, so many women with this have been frustrated by gynos/sexologists "prescribing" a glass of wine and telling them to "just relax."  obnoxious.

when i feel it creep in a little during karezza, i think that a little movement and stimulation, the type that causes me to produce some more natural lubrication, can help.  or else we just take a natural-feeling interlude of no intercourse and snuggle until we want to start up again after a bit.