I told my wife that I want to ditch the condoms

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Submitted by Louie on
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I started writing this as an addenum to my last blog post and then decided that it was substantial enough to be a blog post in its own right.

I recently told my wife that I would like to stop using condoms. I did not force the issue, I just stated a preference and told her why. I often lose my erection right after putting on the condom and then have to work to get it back again (usually by fantasizing). If you believe that the penis has its own intelligence then mine is obviously not happy to be in a condom.

The other reason that I want the condoms to go away is that I believe my wife started losing interest in sex when we started using condoms. We started using them after our second child. We did not want to get pregnant again, but were not ready yet for a vasectomy so we used condoms. In the time since then my wife has gotten an IUD installed, and I have had a vasectomy, so the condoms are redundant. Since the condoms came in, her interest in sex has declined steadily.

I have brought the subject up a couple of times before and both times she insisted that the condoms must stay. She had three primary reasons. We discussed them all again this time.

Her last pregnancy experience was so bad that as far as she is concerned the more birth control the better. However, I think that is being very fearful. I have been tested twice and there is no sperm in my semen. I will get tested every year if she wants me to. It is no big deal. She agreed that condoms are not really required for birth control, but ...

She likes the added lubricant. On this one I understand where she is coming from, but I think she is wrong. Since her last pregnancy there has been quite a bit of friction when I enter her. Honestly, I was forced to learn ejaculation control for that reason alone. She was tight and if I did not take my time, relax and pause when required I would never make it in without going off. I think the tightness was rather embarassing for her. She attributes it to the pregnancy, and she is probably right in a way. I am sure that there is a lot of dense and fearful energy stored in her sexual organs from the trauma that she went through. However, the baby was born by emergency C-section. There was no damage to the vagina. Also, once I am actually inside she tends top relax and become very well lubricated. Thus, I do not think lubricant is a problem for us.

And, I do not think that the condoms help. In fact, they make it worse. One time I accidentally entered her without a condom on. It was one of those things where I just happened to be lined up and slipped right in. There was no resistance from the vagina at all to my naked penis. I said whoops, pulled back out, put on a condom and tried to go back in. All of a sudden there was resistance. Until recently I though this was a matter of mind control. When I accidentally slipped in she had no time to anticipate and tense up. However, now I am thinking that perhaps her vagina does not like the condoms either. Again, this only makes sense if you beleive that the vagina has its own intelligence. I am starting to believe that it does.I also told her that I would rather feel her than the inside of a condom. She made no attempt to argue against that.

The last point is that she likes the fact that that condoms catch the semen so she does not have to worry about it getting on the bed. I told her that I do not intend to ejaculate very often so that is a remote concern. She smiled at that one but did not reply. She knows that I have decided not to ejaculate very often any more but she has yet to see the proof. Her trust in this one will just have to come in time.

LIke all of our recent discussions on sex there was no agreement reached. We talked very calmly about it and then let the subject drop again. There is no need for me to force the point or insist on an overt agreement. Actions speak louder than words anyway, and I have a very simple strategy that I will employ here.

WARNING - TRIGGERING MATERIAL

Each time that we make love I will allow the head of my penis to come in contact with the opening of her vagina as often as possible. I think this will really help to get the lubricant flowing. I will also allow the head to slip inside with no condom. It tends to want to do this anyway :)

END OF TRIGGERING MATERIAL

If she insists that I pull out and put on a condom then I will. I will not allow a disagreement about condoms to impact on our connection during sex. However, I have a feeling that she will not insist. Some part of her will scream "we need a condom!!" and some other part will say "oh, shut up you. I am enjoying this." At least, that is what I hope will happen.

I think it is very telling that she allowed this discussion to end without making a firm statement that the condoms must stay. She has done that every other time that we have discussed this issue. So, we will see. I think that our love making will be much deeper and smoother without the condoms.

Just for the record, to any man out there who is now thinking that condoms suck and he should stop using them, I will remind those men that I have had a vasectomy. I have no sperm in my semen. If you are not prepared to have a child then be responsible!!

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Comments

Thanks

We have some lubricant in the bed side table that has never been opened. Hopefully it won't be needed, but we will do what we need to do.

Nonsense:)

One word almond oil. Use it every time. Diana Richardson, quote unquote. Do you have her book?

If you wait for a super huge erection and a super lubricated lass, you are already way way way too excited for karezza beginners.

>Hopefully it won't be needed

Louie, you guys are at point x (no sex) and you want to get to point y (sex). You wont get through that gap on ideals.

And you didn't answer my question about sharing your journey with her!

Ideals

Agreed. There is no room for ideal scenarios. When the time comes I will use lubricant.

I have shared parts of my journey with her, but not all of it.

She knows that I want to change how we do sex. She knows that I do not intend to ejaculate voluntarily any more. She knows that I do not want to use condoms and why.

I have not shared CPA with her yet. I intend to wait until after she has had a couple of karezza experiences before doing that. I know my wife. If she has some personal experience that she can relate to, she will be much more open minded about the book. She is very good at arguing against theories, even if she does not understand them. Opinion is a sport for her. However, she can also be very open minded about thinsg that she has actually experienced.

Case in point:

My wife's physiotherapist practically begged her to try acupunture for two years and she would not do it. She declared it was a bunch of mystical crap and she was not going to allow anyone to stick needles in her just to amuse them. She was very scathing in her opinions of Chinese energy practices in general. She said chi was bunk and the people who believed in it were in the same boat as UFO seekers.

Then a friend convinced her to try Tai Chi and after a few sessions she actually felt chi moving. After that it was open season on energy practices. This was not just a theory that she could poke full of holes. She had a personal experience! It was real! She now does acupunture on a regular basis and has convinced her mom to try it as well.

Thus, the book will go over much better after she has actually had karezza and felt how wonderful it is.

Louie wrote:

[quote=Louie]
My wife's physiotherapist practically begged her to try acupunture for two years and she would not do it. She declared it was a bunch of mystical crap and she was not going to allow anyone to stick needles in her just to amuse them. She was very scathing in her opinions of Chinese energy practices in general. She said chi was bunk and the people who believed in it were in the same boat as UFO seekers.

Then a friend convinced her to try Tai Chi and after a few sessions she actually felt chi moving. After that it was open season on energy practices. This was not just a theory that she could poke full of holes. She had a personal experience! It was real! She now does acupunture on a regular basis and has convinced her mom to try it as well.

Thus, the book will go over much better after she has actually had karezza and felt how wonderful it is.[/quote]

If this is so, you could try introducing yoga. Hopefully a routine with the snake-like? movements of the spine, good for the back also

Poll

To the males out there ... does anyone else find that they lose their erection as soon as they put a condom on?

I am betting that most men over 30 will say yes, and most men under 30 will say no. It never happened to me when I was 19 or 20 and really wanted to have sex. It is only in the past few years that it has started happening.

Lubrication

Louie, why do you say "hopefully, it won't be needed" about the lube?

We have lube in a pump bottle that we *always* use in the beginning (and I am a very, very juicy girl!)~~there is no shame in using lube and it makes things so much easier when first inserting~~

Two things we've gotten over since starting karezza: the need for him to have a full erection in order to get started and the need for me to be fully lubricated in order to proceed~~lube is the answer to both and makes it easier to "get to it" rather than putzing around!

Lube

Perhaps there is some part of me who thinks it will be an unwelcome interuption to have to stop and put lube on. It is something for me to get over I guess.

actually for me...

it's fun. I have had her put it on which is great (maybe I'll ask her to do that more often.) But whatever, when I put it on, it feels wonderful. A few strokes on Wonderful Willy with lube, the only thing better is being inside her, now that I no longer masturbate. This is a moment of a little fun. 

Honestly

Honestly, it would take a lot of pressure off your wife to feel she needs to be at a certain level of arousal in order to start intercourse.

I think lube is the best thing in the world!

I surrender!!

Louie runs down the alley and turns the corner. OH NO, a wall!! he looks around frantically. There are no doors. there is no way out. Louie is trapped. He crouches in the corner and tries to look small. Maybe they won't see him.

Soon torch light begins to flicker off of the walls. A crowd of people comes around the corner lead by Rachel and Emerson. "We see you there Rachel says. You can't hide from us Louie."

"Use the Lube" says Emerson.

The crowd begins to chant. "USE THE LUBE!!! USE THE LUBE!!"

Louie stands up. He wipes the dirt off of his pants and does his best to stand up tall. He looks at the crowd for a moment and then says "I will use the Lube."

HOORAY!! The crowd cheers as gather around Louie. They pat him on the back. Bottles of lubricant are thrust into his hands. "USE THE LUBE. USE THE LUBE. Louie is going to USE THE LUBE!!"

LOL

It sounds like fun to have my wife put the lube on. I am sold.

LOL

Yeah, I am OK. I was surprised by the intense support for lubricant here. How can I say no when so many people seem to love it :)

Well

I think we'd all love to see your wife let you make love with her "sans condoms" and if lubrication is one of the things she's worried about losing, then using lube should put that worry to rest, right?

My vagina does not like condoms at all~~I become very dry very fast with them. So I'm hoping your wife will relish in the wet, slippery feeling of non-condomed lubrication!

Agreed

As of today, I am 100% in agreement. Thanks Rachel. Hearing that from a woman made a huge difference for me. I was worried that she would think the lubricant was a wierd "foriegn" substance and would not want it inside of her. I am hearing that the lubricant will be preferred over friction so I intend to try it.

amazing things

For the last 200 times or so we had sexual intercourse, my wife wasn't all that juicy.

But my wife recently began lubricating quite a bit more.

She is a little thawed out from "feminine lockdown" (thanks Darryl for that term and explanation.)

And since then, for the last several weeks, she's juicier. It is all tied into her being more turned on about sex than she was all these months.

But we ALWAYS use lube. It makes entry much easier. The difference now is that it is so much better and easier after entry.

When we used to switch positions and if I had to insert again, I didn't use lube and it was a little difficult. Now my penis slides right in because she is juicier.

It's so cool!

Regarding condoms, I used them for several decades and hated them. But they did work for us as the only method of birth control. I think in your situation your wife is being a bit unreasonable if I may say so (and I may LOL). 

Regarding ejaculate, well, hey, I have a lot of precum (more these days) and it gets on the bed. Big whoop. Ejaculate on the bed is not a problem thanks to today's modern techmology called "the washer". LOL again. I think people can love messy sex and lots of juice. It's awesome! It just takes a mental re-adjustment and I think that will happen automatically in time for your wife.

And one more thing. My wife used to get a lot of UTIs. They are GONE now. Never gets 'em anymore. It's because of Karezza being gentler I think and the mindset is different. It's all mindset. I only have ejaculated once this year but I'm pretty sure I have dripped a lot into her vagina and it hasn't been an issue medically speaking.

The beginning

Theres things youve said here that tell me i need to explain better things ive said in my blog. For me with karezza the entry is everything. Whatever happens after that is pretty much secondary, and all themed after the tone and quality of the entry. Its important you get this after all your taoist 'technique based" training.

Here's what it typically looks like. After lots time doing of several of the following, eye gazing, pole holding, genital cuddle, massage, kissing (during thee last half of which i have the bottle of oil warming under my armpit, cold oil is not nice), we are at this point laying in scissors or near scissors, we will at some point get a sense that the time is right. I dont really know how to describe how i know, in the beginning i deferred to her, now i just know.

So I then pour some oil on her pubic area, she rubs in it well, takes her time, and this warms her engine nicely. That she does it is important. Creates intention. Prior to this i have no erection at all. I pour a second lot of oil for good measure. As she rubs this in i come to about 40% erect . After maybe a minute, then she pours some on my penis and gently rubs that in too. Now i'm maybe 60% erect. She takes it and just inserts the head. Then we get comfortable on our pillows (she wipes her oily hand on a towel that i previously placed by the bed) and just lay quietly, as my erection grows the rest of the way slowly slowly growing into her. At the same time she's opening, starting to lubricate, and the penis rather than being pushed into her is /drawn/ into her. Its a magic sensation, of little creeps, and ripples.

If you get this right, then all that follows falls into place by itself. The entry sets the entire tone.The entry itself should take at least 5 minutes, but we have gone as long as 20minutes. By the time of complete entry, when your pubic bones meet, and get glued together, you'll have this wonderful almond oil, precum, vagina juice emulsion, which is the stuff of a very happy hour.

If theres a resistance. Dont force it. Either try some more oil, or find out whats not flowing and why, and fix it, or wait til another time. Forcing it will only lead to an unhappy session.

The devils is the details, and i find people here all too frequently assume we can all mind read!

By the way, ill say it again, this is all explained in Richardson's books.

HTH.

Quick Update

My wife and I discussed the subject of condoms again this weekend. It was a very brief conversation. She has agreed that if I stop ejaculating inside of her during sex then she will agree to let the condoms go away. It is obvious that she still doubts my ability to make love to her without climaxing. That does not bother me so much. I will wear condoms until we are well established making love with no ejaculations and then I will remind her of her promise. It is a fair compromise in my opinion.

I have a feeling that after a few sessions with no ejaculation her whole outlook on sex will start to change anyway. Condoms will become a silly thing to be concerned with.

Ye of little faith?

If you follow the prescription laid out in The heart of tantric sex, at least in the start, you wont have an urge to ejaculate. I know you don't believe me, but i very much find that if you begin in stillness, you tend to stay in stillness. (Later on we've been experimenting with some movement, but from a place of calm.)

We've been doing this for about 3 months, 3 times a week, and only once did she get excited on me, for my part i never have. That one time, we just paused for a moment until we could get back into breathing properly. It was at her first ovulation session. Subsequently she's become more aware, and has less problem with ovulation.

Anyway i hope all the talks with her mean that something's in the wind! I know this 'preparation' stage takes a while and cant be skipped. Good luck!

More

I realise that what im saying above is at odds with what your wife and probably many others think. Everyone knows what a fine line there is between coming and not coming, in conventional terms.

But that is exactly my point, in conventional sex. That is so. But with karezza/tantra-as-diana-defines-it, you both operate in a radically radically different paradigm. Its like night and day. By using comfortable positions that allow relaxation of the body, focusing on the little sensations rather than the gross ones, by not clutching the pelvic floor, by breathing fully and consciously, by tapping into each others energy, you operate in a vastly different paradigm. One where even the thought of ejaculation, never mind the worry, is just miles and miles and miles away.

You are preaching to the converted

No worries Treehouse, you are preaching to the converted.

The last time my wife and I made love was late June. There are various reasons why it has not happened since then. I don't want to get into that.

I read CPA and Diana Richardson's book between then and now. I am totally on board with the concepts and techniques of all of this ... I just have not had a chance to actually practice it with my wife. It is not that I do not believe any of it. I just haven't been able to do it yet.

I would love nothing more than to get in bed and start practicing this. However, as I said, there have been circumstances that have prevented it from happening thus far in my (very short) period of learning karezza. Hopefully that will be resolved soon.

From my wife's point of view, she has never had sex in which the man (me) was not trying to give her an orgasm, and not trying to have one himself. Thus, it is not hard to see why she is sceptical. She has absolutely nothing in her experience that suggests I can make love to her without an ejaculation. All she has is a statement from me that I intend to stop ejaculating, and this is contrary to all of her past experience with me. What she needs now is proof in the form of actual experiences of karezza style love making.

In the meantime, I do not intend to talk to her about it anymore. She knows that I want our love making to change. She knows that I do not intend to ejaculate anymore, but it might take some practice to get there. She has agreed that if I actually follow through on this then the condoms can go away. As far as I am concerned, the way has been prepared. Now I just wait for the go ahead to have sex again.

Barry Long

I would almost think that my wife had listened to old Barry Long tapes in which he said women should just say no to sex and tell men that they either come to her for real love making or not at all. Except that I know she would never listen to Barry Long.

In any case, she has said no to conventional sex in the sense that she is not much interested in doing it. This is good, because I would not be here otherwise. However, the ball has yet to get rolling for karezza.

No worries. She is gradually working up to it. Once it actually starts I expect she will rather like it.

Cart before the horse

Forgive my ignorance, but don't you have the cart before the horse. All the talk and thought and angst about condom or no condom, ejaculation or no ejaculation, lube or no lube, conventional sex or Karezza, c'mon, all this is secondary to actually having sex with your wife. That would be the issue I would be discussing; whether or not we will use lube or condoms, who cares?, why we don't have a sex life would be my focus, but then, that's me.

I wish you well on your journey, I hope you get the horse out in front of the cart though, otherwise it may be awhile before you go anywhere. Good luck, Louie, keep us posted.

Not Louie

I'm not Louie and don't pretend to speak for him nor his wife, but I will say with regard to women~~sometimes we become "locked down" because of the way sex has always been (unfulfilling) and we lose interest. It is only when we start to make love in a new way that invites our openness and receptivity that we can begin to *enjoy* making love once again.

So many of us have shut it out of our lives because it does nothing for us anymore (I know I did when I was married). I think Louie is on the right path to showing his wife there is another way to be together sexually~~she has to learn to trust him. If they go back to the old way, it will probably never happen.

The issue isn't with a horse nor a cart~~it's with letting his wife know he will be a steady hand, a slow hand, a generous man who will love her in the present moment and not go back to old ways. I am hoping for both their sakes she will one day become free and receptive and surrender to her femininity and to his masculinity. It's a wonderful feeling and it can make a woman feel like she's finally come "home" to herself.

Spot On

I think that assessment is spot on Rachel. My wife has been in a sexual lock down for the past three years. There was a couple of years where I ignored the cues that conventional sex was no longer satisfying for her. I responded to her declining interest by becoming aggressive and manipulative. Of course, that only served to hasten the lock down.

With that in mind, my focus right now is on bonding behaviors. I am using cuddle therapy to restore the lost trust and connection between us. It is working really well, but it needs some time to work up. My gut feel is that we are 70% of the way there right now.

I have made the conscious decision to not rush karezza, and I have told her so. She knows that I want to do it, but she also knows that I will not push it. There is no rush.

I have a question I'm hoping

I have a question I'm hoping you guys can answer. In theory, if man and woman practice karezza, no ejaculation, this can be a form of birth control.
So how does a guy tell if he's at the level where there may be precum but no sperm as long as he does the proper energy transmutation and there is no condom needed?

On this point

I've been rereading the old texts (proof reading), and they all make a /big deal/ about its birth control attributes. Understandably without the modern alternatives, it was likely indeed a big deal. But with only the brief and shy writings of these 100+ year old texts its hard to get any sense of the degree of reliability they experienced from karezza as birth control.

In particular i'm interested in finding out more about the Oneida experiences.

There's a copy of "Strike of a sex" at archive.org, which i spent a half day reading in the weekend, and its a lovely little book, really giving a frank and moving insight into the problem of lack of birth control and women's plight pre 1900. However it appears Miller wrote a sequel called variously "After the Sex Struck", "After the Strike of Sex", or "Zugassent's Discovery" itself. This latter book also written as a parable, is said to explain the mysterious sex practice referred to in Strike of a sex. It was published by Alice Stockman at one time.

Marnia maybe you can use your library connections on this one? See
http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=Zugassent%27s+discovery&qt=owc_search

However according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_stirpiculture
13 out of 58 children born under their eugenics program between 1869 and 1879 were considered "accidental" conceptions. Prior to that in the period, between 1849 and 1867, where a policy of non-conception prevailed, 35 children were born out of some three hundred members. (Source: http://www.crookedlakereview.com/books/saints_sinners/martin11.html).

Other possibly interesting related material :
Fogarty, Robert S., Desire and Duty at Oneida: Tirzah Miller's Intimate Memoir
Carden, Maren Lockwood. Oneida: Utopian Community to Modern Corporation
Robert A Parker, A Yankee Saint: John Humphrey Noyes and the Oneida community
Pierrepont B Noyes,. My Father's House; An Oneida Boyhood

What I do know is that, if I

What I do know is that, if I spend 4 or 5 days or more without ejaculation and then ejaculate, it comes almost clear. In theory this means no sperm? However if I do solo cultivation after 4 or 5 days without ejaculation and get too heated and have to perform the lock or whatever where I tighten PC's to prevent ejaculation and I do it imperfectly and a little comes out, it is whitish in color, so I guess that means there is sperm? Why does cultivation make it white? Bc the energy is recycled instead of absorbed?? Is it even sperm that makes it white, or is it energy / nutrients? Mantak Chia says to discern whether you are leaking "water" or "milk" so maybe thats the answer.
I don't know, I'm just looking for an option for my hopeful future experiences in lovemaking. I agree with the consensus here: Condoms are evil. They take away from natural sensations.

Aren't there any male karezzanauts around here...?

who haven't had a vasectomy and who would be willing to wear a condom during lovemaking, and then inspect any precum under a microscope to look for sperm? All you need is access to a microscope with 1000x magnification.

Of course people are different. One guy might leak sperm, another might not. So if you want to use karezza for birth control, you would be wise to do that experiment for yourself, and also use other methods of birth control around the woman's fertile times.