Turned Down Cold

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Submitted by Louie on
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Last night I decided that there is no time like the present and told my wife that I would like to make love with her. The response was like having a bucket of cold water thrown on me. She snorted (honest she did) and said she was waaaay too tired and waaaay too sore for that. Then, without skipping a beat, she starting talking about something else and that was that. I have been turned down for sex many times over the course of our marriage, but this felt rather like a dismissal. Needless to say, my desire to make love with her evaporated very quickly.

I suppose I could have pressed the issue, but honestly, my self respect is way too high to go begging for sex. I only want to make love with someone who actually wants to make love with me. I don't see any point to it otherwise. You cannot have a loving exchange with someone who does not actually want to be there.

In any case, later in the evening I saw her flopped in the easy chair playing a puzzle game on our daughter's hand-held game system. She looked very tired. I realized then that her response earlier had not been an excuse. She only plays video games when she wants to pretend that the world does not exist for a while, but does not have the mental energy to read. It is usually a sign that her energy is really flat. I felt love and compassion for her in that moment and it took the sting out of her earlier dismissal.

On a related note, we did not cuddle this morning because she was dead to the world until the alarm went off.

I will wait until she is back in a positive space and then I will try again to coax her into love making.

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Begging is not good

Mutually coming up with a schedule takes the begging out of the equation. I know that's tough, but maybe have an out that if you miss one night, the next night is The Night.

Let her set the schedule for the first month...with the goal of rethinking the frequency together the following month.

You and Your Wife Need to Talk

Wow, some people really know how to kill a relationship. Everybody doesn’t feel like it sometime; tired, sick, whatever. But turning the other person down like your wife did was really offensive. How much better would you have felt had she said, “I am sorry but I am really tired and my back hurts. Would you give me a back rub and tomorrow night I’ll rub something of yours that will more than make up for it. After you rub my back maybe you can hold me while we go to sleep.” Now instead of dissing you she has made a sexual overture and gotten something she will enjoy and you will enjoy giving.

No relationship is going to be perfectly balanced in sexual desire. Stereotypically it seems women are viewed as the less sexually inclined; whether that is statistically accurate I can’t say. But I do know that many women say, “My husband/boyfriend/lover doesn’t listen/show me affection/talk.” If those women gave a response like you got no wonder they don’t get their needs fulfilled. Love and sex are something that you do with someone, not to someone. It is a shared activity and it really seems that your wife is missing that point.

Unless you say something to her about how her actions make you feel you are as guilty as she is at destroying the relationship. I can’t see how it would not build up very destructive resentment on your part. From my perspective your relationship needs a bunch of talking and bonding activities. You are at the right website; you just need to get your wife to try Karezza. It is a type of lovemaking that should help you and your wife. Even if she is not onboard with foregoing orgasms, the other parts could be very valuable.

I can’t believe my opinions on relationships lately; I am becoming such a girl. Guess I am just committed to making our relationship work. I am not sure if Marnia or my psychology major girlfriend is rubbing off on me—maybe both!

Cloud nine

Louie, in one of your posts, you said:

"The last time we had sex it was awesome. We both had big orgasms. She was on cloud nine for three days talking about how we should have sex more often. Since then, zero interest."

Have you reminded your wife how she felt, then? I remember my wife saying much the same thing, on many occasions. Anticipating further fireworks, I was repeatedly disappointed when her enthusiasm evaporated. I eventually discovered that the way forward was to simply remind her of how marvellous she had said she had felt. That seemed to trigger a realisation in her that while saying 'no' to me she was also saying 'no' to a part of herself.

So, whenever she demurred, I didn't ask her why she didn't want to make love, or plead with her to change her mind, but instead, I made a point of reminding her how much, and how recently, she had claimed to enjoy it. It was as if she needed to be continually reacquainted with the part of herself that came alive and blossomed during lovemaking, but tended to get shut away and forgotten about at all other times, to the point where it became more effort than she wanted to make (unassisted) to resuscitate it.

Many factors may have entered the equation, inhibiting the sexual side of her from emerging freely; but investigating them seemed counter productive, so I simply persisted in my reminders. If she was too tired, or otherwise engaged (which was normal enough), I asked her to suggest sometime during the next day or two when this lost 'part' of her could be allowed to flourish. That way, we made a date, of her choosing. This was mostly conventional sex, at the time. Over the years, the reminders worked well, in conjunction with various alternative versions of scheduling. It wasn't all plain sailing; but my wife now positively revels in her sexuality (within the constraints of her personality). We still have our differences, of course; but now we practice Karezza, on and off, it's getting even better.

One key element I've only recently grasped the importance of is time of day. My wife has very clear priorities. First thing in the morning, her mind is on the day ahead. Last thing at night, she craves sleep. Evenings are a bit hit and miss. The one time during the day when she seems to naturally enter a vacuum which can be most gratifyingly filled by lovemaking is around tea time. Luckily, our circumstances permit this. We do make love at other times, but it seems to require much more effort for her to dislodge extraneous thoughts that interfere with the flow. Along with time, is place. This may be a personal thing, but we avoid our bedroom. 

I admire your forbearance. Maybe the 'softly, softly' approach of gradually increasing the cuddling and bonding will result in her feeling safer around sex. Maybe she'll even initiate it. On the other hand, maybe she needs to be jogged along a bit.

I have to say, our experience hasn't been typical (of posters here) in this area. The more cuddling we do, the more cuddling we want. The more sex we have, the more sex we want. But the two don't seem to mix and match. By this, I mean naked cuddling without sexual intention hasn't in itself led to more lovemaking. In fact, the opposite occasionally seems to have occurred. Making love requires a clear cut intention that we have found almost inimical to cuddling. Cuddling and lovemaking seem to satisfy different parts of us, and need encouraging separately. Again, this may be a personal thing. 

Afternoon sex

My wife very much prefers sex in the afternoon or early evening. However, our present circumstances do not allow for that. We have one child who is not yet in full day school. I have already considered the fact that next year (when he is in grade 1) we will have all day to make things happen. I can easily work from home and I am sure that will change our situation substantially.

When my wife is tired it is pretty much no go and it has always been that way. Karezza will hopefully change that, but first karezza has to happen. It is a chicken and egg problem. She has to experience the healing of karezza so that she can realize that it is not a drain like conventional sex is. I will need some patience to get it going, and then it will take care of itself. Without even realizing why, she will start seeking it out.

Even though the situation

seems hopeless, it's not. The pieces could shift at any moment. She can make a date to send Junior to a friend's for a couple of hours, perhaps.

You'll appreciate this story. A nomadic tribe of hunter-gatherer pigmies in Africa have a ban on sex until the child is on its feet. The Aka dads have the reputation of being very attentive fathers...and I bet their kids learn to walk faster than any others on the planet. Wink You can find the link to the full study in this article WEIRD Masturbation Habits

 

I feel your pain

In fact, I KNOW your pain. All relationships are different, but I do know the pain of rejection. If you read my earlier posts, to July, you will learn that my own marriage was in jeopardy. For the first time in our 28 years, we spoke of the possibility of divorce. Just saying the word was huge for both of us. It wouldn't necessarily have the same impact for others, but it sure woke us up, and we got serious. For us, it was either study Marnia's book which I had just purchased, or if that didn't work, go for counselling. One thing was for certain: we would not continue down this horrible path.

In short, daily bonding behaviors did wonders. As we got serious about saving our relationship, and began those behaviors, we began to talk more. Through the days and weeks, we both confessed past attitudes and behaviors, and we fell in love again. During those days I learned a lot about her feelings of not being honored or cherished, and her impression that I always had to be right. In short, I learned how much garbage was between us, which resulted in this huge wall being erected, gradually, imperceptibly, but very real. I needed to change as much as she did. As the days progressed, the wall began to crumble, and as it went down, her desire for me went back up. I had no idea that our love could be greater than when we were first married, but that is exactly what happened. We became like kids again.

Karezza did not come immediately. In fact, in the beginning, my wife was very frustrated and confused, which made me frustrated and confused. Neither of us had any past knowledge of the Eastern religious, particular taoist or tantric sex. Advice like "focus on your root" sounded more like gardening advice to me. Smile Anyway.....From advice received here, we both decided to just go with whatever, while keeping in mind the possible negative effects. That was ok with us. We were together this long, after all. We had gone through so many difficulties, so we could handle some dopamine for a time. Some may not understand, but between my past feelings of deprivationof second honeymoon bliss....well, it took a while for karezza to happen for both of us. And yet, all the while, we continued to read and to think about it.

Gradually the concept became more possible, and now today I am pleased to announce.....drumroll please.....we made love together, and for the first time neither of us had any real desire to achieve the O goal. Both of us are pleasingly satisfied. Smile

But enough about me. I share this in hopes that you might be encouraged that it is possible to turn your relationship in the right direction. I'm not here to offer answers and wise platitudes. I will say this: your wife's latest response sounds almost exactly like my own wife's response on the day we both hit bottom. I decided at that moment that life was too short to go on. So, we had the major talk the next morning. It wasn't easy. I'm not a huge fan of conflict. But, finally I got up the courage and gently said that we could not continue to live our lives this way, and that it might be best if we were to at least consider the possibility of divorce. Those words were the beginning of healing for us.

I know if I were you I would not be able to continue. At some point, I had to get up the nerve to name the reality and that I couldn't let it continue. I also knew that I couldn't just let her give in and just let me make love to her without her desire for the connection as well. Again, we're all different. What worked for us may not work for you.

So, that's my story in a nut shell. I'm praying for you and your spouse.

Im agreed

I'm agreed with the others, its darkest before dawn.

The sense i got reading your OP was that of excitement. While I know this is of no consolation to you, ha, but i just think your relationship oozes potential, and stands to benefit big time from Karezza and CPA.

I know it

I know that our marriage has huge potential. That is why I get frustrated with the slow pace of change sometimes. I have a feeling that our big breakthrough will happen very soon.

Diana Richardson

She always says that to be present in lovemaking means accepting where you are now, however it is, good bad or ugly, not wanting to be somewhere in the future, or some where you think you ought to be. I see no reason why the same doesn't apply to preparing for lovemaking!

Once you've reread CPA ooh about 2 or maybe 3 times, you'll feel more patience probably. At the very least it 'll give you something to do while your waiting:)

I've observed

most of the time people at least twitch a little when they see their name misspelled or mispronounced. It just doesn't look or sound right to that person.

Anyway....last night I read most of one chapter from her first book to my wife as she laid her head on my chest. It was nice all the way around.

Rarely

Rev, I have to say that I have my name mangled ALL the time and it rarely bothers me. I suppose it depends on the person, but those of us whom it happens to are likely not all that fussed.

The main reason I responded to you though is because I thoroughly enjoy reading all of your posts about the journey you are experiencing with your wife. It's pretty special and I appreciate you sharing it with us in such an honest and open way.