Can you help out a forum member?

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Submitted by Marnia on
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This is an anonymous request, but I thought it a good idea to get feedback from all of you:

I am investigating the means by which we can control ejaculation / orgasm during Karezza.   I can see it from a man’s point of view; I need to understand the process from the female perspective.   I have always been averse to the techniques promoted by some authors who use simple pressure on the perineum to block the flow.  Some authors are even proud of their ability to divert the flow into their bladders.  It is so crude and misses the point.

Our sexual energy inevitably builds up in the genitals during Karezza.  To prevent it bursting from the genitals it needs to be diverted rather than blocked.  It can be diverted to do the good work of strengthening the bonds of love between partners.  It is this diversion I am focussed upon.   

    Of course there is the simple technique of freezing all movement and breathing to let the ‘storm’ pass but I have also been trying to divert the sexual energy away from the genitals by a visualization technique.    This visualization may accord with a reality or it may be just a device to stop ejaculation.  Either way it is worth considering.

      I did put in my book a diagram of ‘One Pattern of Energy Flow’ (see attachment).  This particular pattern of flow is derived from Indian sources on Kundalini and from ancient Chinese sources on Chi.     Sexual energy arises in the genitals and can be visualized to flow up the spine to the head then down the front to the heart and belly.  This pattern of flow does correspond to the science in that the up-flow is via the spinal nervous system and the down-flow could go via the Parasympathetic System (Vagus nerve and cranial nerves).     This is a simplistic view of the nervous system but I didn’t want to get lost in a discussion of Sympathetic, Parasympathetic, spinal nerves and hormonal releases from hypothalamus etc.    AND we don’t want to attempt a visualization of such a complex picture.  I also didn’t want to throw too much complex science at the reader.  

In this simple schema the ‘energy’ can flow down to the pelvis whence it sets up a circuit of flow within (the science can support that) or it flow out to your partner (science does not support that, unless we include the effects of thinking).  It can, of course, be doing both things at once. 

      But an important question arises about what happens to the flow (in man and in woman) when the man enters the woman.   In the diagram the flow illustrated corresponds to the state of things during Karezza when the man has not yet entered.   What can and does happen after he enters is either [a] the man cannot stop himself and there is a great outflow from his genitals ... the ‘seed’ is lost and all is over. [b] the man does control himself and energy is still diverted upwards within, to head & heart and out to his partner in many routes other than just the genitals  ... the session of Karezza is ‘successful’ ... bonding without ejaculation.

BUT what is the flow doing in the woman? Granted it is the same circuit within, although the primary source of sexual energy may not be the genitals. My wife tells me hers arises from the head / chest (she held her arm horizontally below her breasts and said it’s “from above here”) and the genitals becomes a secondary source only with stimulation.  Of course, in men they too ‘feed’ with their eyes and imagination initially but the primary source of most sexual energy appears to be their genitals. Or are they simply quicker at transferring their focus in ‘normal’ circumstances (other than during Karezza?    

So what happens in a woman after the man enters?

Does she continue to draw the flow AWAY from her genitals INTERNALLY (as does the man in his attempts to avoid ejaculation) OR DOES SHE ALLOW A (MAJOR) PART OF HER ENERGY TO FLOW OUT FROM HER GENITALS? 

This may only be a question of the ideal visualisation, but it may also be a real event.    

It is interesting that the ancient literature does describe a flow from the female to the male.  They are not only describing a spiritual event but a tangible flow of some ‘fluid’.

This would seem reversal of the normal animalistic event.    A full exchange of energies / ‘fluids’ between hands, eyes, breaths, hearts, bellies and genitals would also be a fair exchange.  It should result in closer bonding, soul-bonding (J W Lloyd) or Divine Union.

I have been unable to talk this with many other women.  I have tried, but few understand what I am on about. 
What do think? What is your experience?  I think it is of value to investigate this because it helps both genders to control the ejaculation of the man and should help Karezza to succeed for both.



My experience~

This is how it feels for me (and what I do)~~

I have learned to relax my pelvic floor (through Diana Richardson's teachings) which, when you are doing it consciously, feels like you are reaching toward your lover with your genitals. When I do this as he enters me, it allows the space inside me to open wider and allow him in without constriction. It's a risk most women never take with their lovers (to be that open and receptive and unguarded).

In turn, this lets me feel the energy from him move up through my spine and there it co-mingles with my own energy and then goes out my breasts (and then around and back up through my vagina).

The more I think about relaxing (and it's easier for me to do it if I think of it as a "giving" sensation~~I'm giving my vagina to him, relaxing it toward him, thus becoming more receptive in the process). This also helps me not orgasm because in order to orgasm, a certain amount of tension is needed in the woman.

Many times after deep, sustained penetration like this, we will both feel a long, drawn-out sensation of electrical (buzzing?) energy that ends with us both feeling satiated and a feeling that we are "done" (but without actual orgasms). It's much more energizing and fulfilling than conventional orgasms. We usually both feel this at the same time and it leaves us with a sigh of contentment and then we might lie together for awhile and talk and then we're done! Just lovely~

Hope this helps in some way!


These things are *so* hard to put in words! My apologies if none of it makes sense! I have a feeling it will only make sense to someone who has also experienced it~~

I'm not able to see your

I'm not able to see your diagrams here so it makes it challenging to understand exactly what you are asking. My response would be that there are many major and different but interconnected factors in place that determine flow of energy, especially in women. What interests me is the sense I get from you that there is a system for all this, that it is a mechanical pathway for these flows. I think this is only true on a very basic level.

There are physiological energy pathways in both men and women that are the same in that developmentally, our whole physiology arises from the base or sacrum and moves upwards, ending in the third eye. Look to the field of embryology and the development of the primitive streak and notochord for more detail on this. The physiological self arises from an electromagnetic matrix sparked by the meeting of spirit (consciousness) and matter at conception, and continues throughout life. This electromagnetic matrix has a flow and circuit in the shape of a Torus, with the central nervous system and spinal cord being the midline of the torus shape and then flowing outwards forming the periphery of the energy body.

Energy bodies can synchronize even without physical touch because the energy body extends beyond the physical body. Ideally, the two energy bodies of lovers would have already synchronized before penetration and so the direction of flow of energy in the woman is going to be completely different depending on whether or not attunement has been established or not. If it has not been established, the flow state will be constricted and frozen. The receptive principle, which is magnetic in nature, only receives loving intent. A physiological orgasm can happen that will still be a contractive drawing up along the spinal column, followed by a gushing out and release, and maybe even conception. It is possible to have orgasms without being receptive, but receptivity is necessary for whole-body and electromagnetic attunement, in which the two flow states merge. Even within this merging there can be multiple flows, I think - there is the flow of attunement on the outer periphery of the lover's bodies, and complimentary flows between the man and woman that are polarized, ie, with the man giving and the woman receiving. I don't know what it is like to be a man, but I will say that even when my lover is withholding orgasm, the flow of his ENERGY is still outwards into me, and my flow of energy is still upwards and inwards into me.

For me, in this attuned state, I experience something similar to Rachel, in that there is a relaxing of the pelvic floor muscles decending down and flaring out, as an invitation to my lover, but once inside, the energy movement still moves up from my gentials to my heart. The ability of the energy to get to my heart, head, and beyond, and recycled back to my lover, has to do with many factors - including the tempo he is moving at (ideally very slow and tender), his quality of attention and presence (loving), and my attunement to my own body. If I am holding tension or feeling his tempo is too fast, I will not be able to be truly receptive, and so his energy will not have a pathway to flow into. In this case there is a very short circuity cycling of physiological and frustrated energy that may culminate in an orgasm, so this is a little orbit of chi that has a very limited field in the groin. I experience it as almost totally vaginal, with the cervix as the cutoff point (great tenderness is necessary for the energy pathway of the cervix to open into the real garden).

When I am able to relax completely and really receive, this is usually because I feel that the tempo is slow enough to really languish and let go, knowing that my lover is fully tuned in to the space he has entered and so able to move at the perfect tempo. The cervix will open energetically and the energy will start to spread upwards, which is an invitation for me to take him in more emotionally. The more space I make for him and welcome him, the more room he has to energetically give himself in love, and the more he does this, the higher up in my chackra system I am penetrated. At the level of the heart a great welling up of relaxation, potency, ecstacy, tenderness, and a sense of an archetypal transcendental quality comes in. I feel I am able to fully receive who he is and he becomes bigger and bigger in his generosity, more of himself. Only once have I ever received him past the heart chackra. The energy continues to want to move upwards, but it challenges our capacity for love and ecstacy, and usually at this point orgasm will stop the dance. I once felt that I could feel him penetrating into my third eye. This was not a feeling of being mentally taken over by him, but of him showing himself to me and me, in my receptivity, being able to see clearly the divinity of this man, see his vast potential and bewilder at his ability to direct this potential through love.

So I can really only presume where the energy goes from here. My guess is that it goes wherever the attention goes. The flow follows attention. There have been times when the charge was so high, that in order not to tip over, I had to bring my awareness out to the room and embody the whole room so that we wouldn't go over. You can really go in any direction, but generally, the life force ascends from the earth and mother (sacrum) and rises towards the sky and father (head). In this sense I see it different from you, in that I see women as being grounded in the lower part of the body and men in the upper part. But perhaps energetically, it is the woman's ability to feel in the upper body which grounds her, and it is the mans grounding in his groin which anchors his mental direction.

I think that these polarities within men and women affect how they "connect." So I think it makes perfect sense that your wife feels the flow of energy start in the heart. Once the heart is activated and opened, it would provide a magnetic pull and receptivity through which the channel of the groin would be open and her lover can then enter a body with a clear channel from the groin to the heart already opened. And I think there are many levels and layers of opening. I agree that some level of open heart has to be in place for the woman to really be receptive at penetration. Once that has been established, even on a very basic level, then the circuity of energy builds to a new level from the groin up and the second time her heart is met or penetrated with love, it will go through another opening and deepening process that is even more receptive than before, given that the penetration is more tender and loving than before.

The best understanding of these mechanics and getting things to flow is to develop the capacity to be totally loving as a man, and totally receptive of love as a woman. Once this has been generated, I am sure that a flow state is reached which is totally transformative and energizing, where giver and receiver, self and other merge into one.

I could not begin to answer

I could not begin to answer this question, all I know is that I "send" the energy and she just keeps on receiving it, there's no end to her receiving capacity from what I've experience. Once she said, "I receive what you send, transform it and send it back" That was it, no more explanation given. That's my woman for you.