Coolidge Effect in women

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The Bored Sex

Is this due to more women orgasming more frequently today??

The sexologists' advice shows a distinct lack of imagination IMO.


They recommended pursuit of novelty

This merely defers the problem until either the couple runs out of "novel" ideas...or their pursuit of novelty leads them to incompatible, or even destructive, demands.

For example, some of the most heartrending stories we see on recovery forums are by men whose pursuit of novelty led them to driving their wives into cuckoldry so they could get their voyeuristic buzz by watching and/or by being humiliated. (Both turn-ons apparently inflated through porn viewing...given that as they unhook from porn use they strongly regret their choices and lose their taste for such things.) Grim reading.


It makes sense that as

It makes sense that as sensation-seeking escalate the partner becomes, or is felt to become, progressively unable to deliver the desired sensations or in the intensity desired and so the partner becomes itself insufficient ("there must be something better out there").So, what is in the beginning a sensation seeking approach becomes ultimately a new partner seeking behaviour, when the old partner fails to deliver novelty

Coolidge effect in women

You mention that this article is evidence of coolidge effect in women. But there are a few problems I hope someone can explain:

In the article, it mentions 2 German studies which says while men’s interest in their wife or girlfriend stays steady over time, the interest of a woman in their boyfriend or husband dramatically decreases over time, significantly more than for men.

So that means more than one variable must account for this difference, considering both the husbands and their wives have the same amount of sex (since they’re doing it with each other).

1. What was the cause of the decline of desire in women for their husbands or boyfriends, but stayed steady for men for their wives or girlfriends?
If the coolidge effect was the cause of the decline of desire, then the men’s desire should have declined also, but it didn’t even decline, let alone decline at the same rate as women.

2. It says that for couples who live apart, the women still had desire for their partners, but sex is still occurring, and all entirely with the same person, so these separate living arrangements wouldn’t significantly matter if the problem was the coolidge effect, but it does. It would just decline at a slower rate if sex was less frequent, but it apparently didn’t decline at all.

3. Has there been evidence of the coolidge effect occuring in women before? In most examples explaining the coolidge effect, it’s usually describing a male losing interest in a female. Not the other way around. But the studies mentioned in the article says that it is women who lose interest, not men.

First, even in animals

the Coolidge effect has shown up in females. (The study I recall was on Syrian hamsters. I can find it if you don't.) Also, I recall an article or book on the Maasai, where a woman was interviewed who explained that (in their culture's economic circumstances) women are wise to have multiple lovers (and ask gifts from each).

For a long time, humanity believed that most women wanted stable relationships and men less so. (The research bears this out.) So, until recently, most researchers weren't looking for the Coolidge Effect in women. I suspect that assumption was true where women couldn't earn their own livings and had to make sure their kids were supported by men. Women weren't watching porn and enthusiastically exploiting sex toys then either.

But things have changed. Marriages offer little stability. Women increasingly work full time whether or not they have kids. Women are watching more and more porn and orgasming more frequently on their own with the help of toys. So they increasingly undervalue the synergy and stability of a committed relationship. Also, as sex gets "hotter," overall dissatisfaction paradoxically increases after the initial fireworks inevitably die down.

Personally, I suspect this happens partly because more orgasms mean more post-orgasmic fallout. Also, more porn use is associated with decreased relationship and sexual satisfaction. (This is well established in men, and as research catches up with women's ever-increasing porn use, it is showing up in heterosexual women too.) Very little has yet been done on sex toy use and relationship satisfaction in women except in research funded (and written) by sex toy manufacturers. (Ahem) But there's lots of anecdotal evidence that women who turn to sex toys and porn later find it more difficult to orgasm during partnered sex (much as men who overconsume porn often develop sexual dysfunctions).

Obviously, in long-distance relationships, partners generally have time to "recover" from any unfortunate effects of orgasm while they're apart, which can keep things more interesting despite conventional sex for longer. But they miss out on the benefits of companionship to some degree.

The "unraveling" I'm describing has been going on for decades. As a society, we are pushing hard on the "mating" (churning relationship) pedal with our behavioral choices. This is making it more difficult to sustain our pair-bonds. In fact, they don't even look particularly attractive to many today, in part because such folks haven't seen healthy relationships thrive up close in their parents, and haven't experienced them for themselves.

The reason I wrote my book was because I saw how valuable close, trusted companionship was, and I wanted to undersand how to improve the odds of a permanent, satisfying relationship. Turns out I had to change my putting the emphasis on bonding behaviors + careful use of sexual energy (not making orgasm the goal of intercourse). I was fascinated to learn that this "prescription" had turned up over the millennia in many diverse cultures. Who would have thought??

My theory is that humans evolved from promiscuous mammals. So this "promiscuous program" is just beneath the surface. Yet humans and their offspring are benefited by pair-bonding. We thus evolved such that the attachment cues that bond us to parents and kids have been adapted to keep lovers bonded...when they're engaged in almost daily...and we don't pursue enticing (competing)  stimulation online or with toys.

Instead, most today are opting for the latter, which is making the universal mammalian promiscuous program "louder," and our pair-bonding program harder to hear. Still, we have a choice. We "vote" with our behavior.

One major risk of this situation is that agenda-driven sexologists who study the (rapidly deteriorating) current situation mistake it for humans' inescapable biological reality when it's in fact biology + behavioral choices. I think we all need to know our options more clearly...hence my book.

That said, I also believe people should make their own choices. If they prefer promiscuity, porn and sex toys to stable be it (although it appears to be less ideal for their offspring). If they want stable relationships, they need to know how to steer for them.

Hi Marnia

I found something you may find interesting:

In the country of South Korea (where pornography is blocked) women have seemed to suddenly dislike the idea of marriage or even romantic relationships, and prefer to live alone and interact with her female friends alone. They even desire marriage less than men.

You said that marriage does not offer stability anymore as so many women are now in full-time employment and can therefore support themselves without the need for a partner. But marriage isn’t mainly about supporting someone financially, but loving someone as a romantic partner.
So do women not desire loving companionship? I’m sure that women do desire loving companionship. But why do South Korean women prefer to not find a husband or boyfriend, if she can support herself? As your friend Anya said on the podcast you shared recently discussing your book, I remember she mentions that men and women who met on a dating show were particularly harsh and if their date didn’t meet their ideal standards, they didn’t give them a chance and stopped seeing them.

I find this interesting, as this seems to be taking place in South Korea, which removes the variable of pornography causing excessive stimulation (Coolidge effect) in most women. Pornography is often stated here as the main cause in men having artificially high standards, preventing them from having a healthy relationship with a woman who doesn’t meet their unrealistic standards. But there seems to be another variable which causes Coolidge effect in women, thus causing them to have artificially high standards and therefore preferring a single life than being in a relationship with a man not up to her standards. But what is it? I have no idea.

There are other factors

Korean society is a very chauvinistic one. I have spent time with Koreans and in a marriage, the men tend to dominate. I think this may be a reason women are not in a hurry to get into a marriage with a domineering man.

Just speculation. 

There are other forms of porn, by the way, and I’m sure the market for porn is very active in South Korea.

Indeed, there are other factors

From my experience (I'm Korean), at least, I wouldn't describe the younger generation (below 40) of the society as being chauvinistic, especially with a past election of a former female president which was already almost 8 years ago.
There are various social issues at play, if I had to guess. I would associate this phenomenon to several factors. One sure factor would be that plastic surgery is a booming business in Korea. Another would be the unholy amalgamation of shame culture and MASSIVE consumption (masses just being glued to their screens) of pop culture through screens where there is a new batch of glittering celebrities starring in a fairy tale romance series or in boy bands and girl groups every month. You can imagine that there are definitely some perception shifts. There is definitely a pressure to look and act a certain way, for men and women alike.
Also, just the idea of raising a child in Korea puts an enormous burden on people (South Korea's birth rate is currently below 1 child per woman, which probably puts us at the lowest of all countries in the world), because of heavy financial burdens with all the extracurricular prep schools, daycare, and the unemployment rate is also high in recent years. So, no one really wants a child, and if so, and the average guy or girl who's glued to the screens doesn't see the average guy or girl next door living up to the de facto fairy tale standards that have been established by the entertainment business, why marry at all?
It's not surprising then, that at the same time, video game addiction rates in South Korea have been on the rise, constantly breaking world records that it has set itself.

Marnia, thanks for being

Marnia, thanks for being generous with your time, energy, and focus, and for sharing the fruits of your research and wisdom with us. Here on a cool, damp SoCal Sunday morning, reading your response is like hearing a thoughtful sermon from a wise, caring Parish Priest or Deacon. Thanks, Teacher!

Thanks for posting those clips

It amazes me that "experts" can analyze the rapid deterioration of traditional relationships on the family across the globe without considering the impact of widespread use of hyper-stimulating sex aids, such as porn and sex toys.

There are many studies showing that greater use leads to lower sexual and relation satisfaction, and even some studies suggesting how brains change, such that real partners are no longer perceived as especially arousing (when they have to compete with such aids).

I know we'd all like to find something else to blame, but I think common sense suggests that our experts are ignoring the "elephant in the room."

In my view, trying to ask questions about women without considering the full picture (including how "off" people who overstimulate their brains with supernormal sexual stimuli become with respect to real potential partners) will not yield clarity. Sorry to sound like a broken record.

Maybe you could start a singles organization for those who want to give up artificial sexual stimuli and organize some social events. I have read many accounts of men and women who give up such stimuli...and are amazed at how much more appealing normal mates become. Finding a partner is much easier when most every potential mate is perceived to have some attractive features - and attraction rests on more than just looks. Guys Who Gave Up Porn: On Sex and Romance

I'm genuinely sorry about the mess your generation is having to deal with. Today's environment is very abnormal in the realm of sex and relationships. Don't try to make it "normal" before endeavoring to understand what is going on.

I was just making an

I was just making an observation, that’s all. South Korea and Japan are very similar ethnically, culturally, historically, etc. All the variables are mostly the same with both countries, except that Japan has pornography everywhere, and South Korea has banned pornography.

Also South Korean men have to do national service for 2 years I think. That means plenty of time away from excessive stimuli.

So with the premise often stated on this website that pornography is the main cause of relationships being as they are, and less people being willing to be in relationships, one would think that the South Koreans would have dramatically different attitudes to sex, dating and relationships to the Japanese. But as shown, they are exactly the same. Thus I therefore think the theory that pornography is the cause of all the problems that this website and others attribute to it, is misguided. Perhaps it is an effect, which in turn causes more problems within a relationship, but it is not a root cause. Hence criticising pornography or trying to stop watching it is rather useless without addressing the root cause, because without it, it would just lead to men visiting prostitutes or find another outlet. But what is this root cause as to why things are so? I don’t know.

> It amazes me that "experts" can analyze the rapid deterioration of traditional relationships on the family across the globe without considering the impact of widespread use of hyper-stimulating sex aids, such as porn and sex toys.

> I'm genuinely sorry about the mess your generation is having to deal with. Today's environment is very abnormal in the realm of sex and relationships.

As I said before, perhaps porn is not a cause, but an effect?

I know someone for example that was really obsessed with video games. He would play it all the time, and spend a lot of money on the newest games, and computers to play the games with the highest graphics. He would spend a lot of money on in-game items and so on. He knew that he was spending too much time and money playing it, but he couldn’t stop playing.
But then he started dating, and then started being in a relationship with a woman. And then suddenly he had no interest to play computer games anymore.
But after a few months of being in a relationship, having sex very frequently, he bought a new computer and went back playing games again, all day and everyday.
Personally I don’t play computer games, but stereotypically, people who play video games a lot are often seen as single men.
I’d like to add that the country often considered the best at computer games and where computer games is very popular, is South Korea.

Are you starting to understand what I mean by porn is not a cause of the problems you describe, but an effect?

I’m not trying to push a narrative or try to persuade you. I know you know a lot more than me in regards to sex and relationships, I just made a few observations and sharing them. Thanks for reading.

Porn and gaming

are both internet addictions. Both stimuli are apparently so stimulating that they compete with courtship with real partners.

Your story about the guy returning to gaming suggests addiction to me.

Also, just because Korea tries to ban porn doesn't mean it succeeds in distracting people from pursuit of competing thrills. Isn't "up-skirting" a major problem in Korea in some circles?

That said, my book is about the biological factors that drive potential and actual mates apart. I agree that the problem has aspects that are  more fundamental than porn. But porn worsens them, as does gaming, because they release so much competing dopamine that they have the potential to "drown out" the appeal of real partners (at least after the honeymoon neurochemicals die down in a new relationship).

Our courting brains evolved for the conditions our ancestors faced...where the "hottest thing" was pretty much a potential mate.

Women are now finding their own "more stimulating than real partners" activities. As the saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them."

I think that the reason for

I think that the reason for disagreement is due to us having different views. I think most men are using porn as coping behaviour due to it being increasingly difficult to find a wife, regardless if one watches porn or not. As someone else recently commented, once one finds a partner, or begins a healthy sexual relationship with their partner, one no longer has any interest in porn and if one practices karezza, one will stay disinterested.

I think the point you’re making is that porn use makes partners less appealing, which contributes to men not seeking relationships or not showing interest in their partners. With all due respect, I disagree. Firstly, this study shows that men aren’t finding women significantly less attractive than what would be reasonable (men found most women to be about average in attractiveness, as one would expect). But women considered 80% of men to be unattractive:

I think that when men’s perception of a woman begins to change due to the coolidge effect of repeating orgasms with her, causing both partners to become distant to each other, then the man loses his attraction to his partner and starts looking for an alternate way to relieve sexual desire, which could be finding a mistress, a prostitute, or just pornography. If the man stops watching pornography, but the emotional distance between him and his partner still exists (due to the coolidge effect from multiple orgasms, not from pornography), then he will just find a mistress (for example) to replace the stimuli he previously received from pornography. Or maybe he will start playing computer games excessively or start gambling.

And I don’t believe for one second that any sane man would lose interest meeting women and dating women just because of pornography. After all, why do men in countries where prostitution is legalised spend hundreds of dollars on just an hour with a prostitute, when one could watch porn for free? That wouldn’t make sense if pornography was more desirable than meeting women. Also, most online dating websites are full of men.
I think a lot of people who report on your husband’s website that they are more outgoing after stopping watching porn is simply because they have also stopped ejaculation, which is probably causing a lot of stress and a significant increase in lust.

I think that maybe your understanding of men in some aspects is slightly skewed because I’m assuming that the men who your husband probably interacts with online or perhaps in the real world, are the worst cases in regards to relationships and pornography. It’s like if one spends all day with fat people who can’t stop eating cake, one would think sugar is far worse than it actually is. But for most people it isn’t as detrimental, but rather it is the underlying causes which is causing the fat people to eat so much cake, not the qualities of sugar itself, generally.

No offense intended, I just respectfully disagree, but acknowledge that you definitely have a greater understanding of this subject in general than I do.

Respectful disagreement is fine

What do you make of the research coming out showing that rates of no sexual activity are rising quite dramatically in young people? Do you think that's just because of women being inherently difficult/easily bored? Or that men suddently can't find prostitutes? Japan was the first to report massive rates of no desire for sex among young people.

Again, I caution you not to assume that research on men and women today can tell you much of anything about "normal" sexual behavior.

And I remind you that when you did experiment with dating, you didn't find your partner "hot" enough for your tastes.

I would respectfully suggest that you are like a fish in water being asked to explain water. Your skewed environment seems like "reality" to you, but it is a reality that has been hugely distorted in recent years. It no longer remotely matches the environment that our ancestors faced as their brains and mating programs developed. Trying to make sense of it backwards is likely to give you a very skewed understanding.

That said, I realize that you have to live in today's environment and you have my sympathy. You face a mess.

Ultimately, my opinion on these things doesn't matter. Yours does.



> What do you make of the research coming out showing that rates of no sexual activity are rising quite dramatically in young people? Do you think that's just because of women being inherently difficult/easily bored? Or that men suddently can't find prostitutes?

According to the Kinsey report which was written a long time ago, even plain women were having a surprising amount of sex but there was no surprise when it came to the amount of sex unattractive men were getting.
It seems that when it comes to how things are in the present world, this way of gender interaction has become exaggerated, or more accurately is slowly returning to how it was in ancient times.
For the majority of human history, there were a small group of men at the top of the tribe hierarchy who had several or dozens of female partners, and the rest of the males in the tribe were lucky to have a wife at all. This can be observed in the variation of X and Y chromosomes, which shows that of all the women in human history who had successfully bred, men were only about half as successful (in other words, if about 80% of women were able to successfully breed, only about 40% of men were able to breed). All throughout the animal kingdom, this is observed. It happens in gorillas, crocodiles, lions, and so on. Species that aren’t like this seem to be the rare exception. But as civilisation began, and population increased, this was no longer sustainable or possible.
But now that marriage is no longer a necessity for women in order to be financially stable, things seem to be going back to how things were in ancient times, where a few men had lots of women, but most men are lucky to have any sex at all. And if a woman can’t be with the most desirable men long-term, then she prefers to be alone and raise cats, than marry someone below what she considers to be her standards. This can be seen in the videos I posted above, where an attractive 40 year old South Korean woman (who probably has no problem attracting men) is happy being single, and that a survey was discussed that while most South Korean men still wanted to marry, most South Korean women didn’t want to marry. I think this is a trend doesn’t apply to just South Korea.
This can be most easily observed with the Tinder dating app. An average looking man would be lucky to receive 1 match a week. The average looking woman receives about 1 match an hour.
And therefore the lack of sexual activity amongst young men and women is rising dramatically likely due to this (women who can’t attract the most desirable men, and so prefer to remain single, and men who can’t attract women at all).
The ancient style of relationships where the most desirable men have most of the women (or these days, change partners very frequently) and the average man is fortunate to be in a relationship at all, is slowly becoming more normal. I’m not personally against how things are, it is how it is. I’m just interested in understanding it.
Also in most parts of the world prostitution is not legal or regulated (intercourse with a prostitute is not legal in Japan or South Korea), so visiting some strange woman with a lot of cash in their pocket is probably too intimidating for a lot of men who have had no experience with sex.

> Japan was the first to report massive rates of no desire for sex among young people.

I noticed this was based on a poll. In a lot of cultures, especially in Japan, one is under pressure to always show their best appearance. This is why men always say that they’re “not interested in sex because they’re busy”, but use that as an excuse to why they can’t find a woman. To their close friends, they’ll say that they are interested in sex and finding a girlfriend but no-one is interested in them. But they can’t say that publicly or to the person conducting the poll, because they’re concerned they’ll be judged as weak and pathetic.
This is probably why a lot of men in Japan spend their days hiding away indoors, because they are concerned about how they’ll be judged if they even walk outside, let alone date a woman who criticises him for not having a good job, a stable income, muscles, an outgoing personality, good fashion sense, etc.
But since dating seems to be a lot more stressful today than it was in the past due to all the unrealistic expectations and drama, it’s no wonder a lot of men are no longer interested in dating, if they are sincere when they say they’re not interested in dating.

About the study:

“‘The researchers...said the young people’s “lack of sexual experience may be INVOLUNTARY”, citing **unstable job and income conditions among men** as potential reasons behind the trend.”

“The team found around 80 per cent of women and men aged 25 to 39 who reported no experience of sex in a study said they **wished to get married at some point in their life**”.


So they don’t seem to dislike sex or romance. But it appears to me that it’s due to the sky-high expectations on men who don’t otherwise have good looks, and men struggling to meet those demands with their average income.
If a man isn’t considered as very desirable (desirable probably meaning very handsome, and if not very handsome then very rich), then many women would rather be alone, as shown by the video of the South Korean single woman. They have the freedom to choose because they are no longer required to be financially dependent on men (which is fair enough). And due to these expectations, men have a hard time meeting those demands.

> And I remind you that when you did experiment with dating, you didn't find your partner "hot" enough for your tastes.

That is true, I admit it. But I was sort of dating her because other men didn’t like her because of her acne so she was a bit desperate, and I was a bit desperate too. Also both our personalities were very similar and we enjoyed the same things, so I thought that even if I don’t love her from the beginning, maybe I will learn to love her by being friends with her. But dating a desperate woman is stressful, because she always is worried that one is going to leave her, or gets worried if you don’t reply to her messages immediately, or tries to test your attraction to her. So in the end I decided to just stop dating her because I wasn’t enjoying my time with her. I think a lot of men have similar experiences which is perhaps why a lot of men you mentioned in your article no longer have interest in dating.

> I would respectfully suggest that you are like a fish in water being asked to explain water. Your skewed environment seems like "reality" to you, but it is a reality that has been hugely distorted in recent years. It no longer remotely matches the environment that our ancestors faced as their brains and mating programs developed. Trying to make sense of it backwards is likely to give you a very skewed understanding.

For my work, I often had to visit different countries. That included cities in Kazakhstan and the rural area of China, among other places. These places are not rich, but generally aren’t poor either (people eat local fresh food, don’t work too hard, aren’t stressed, etc). What I noticed is that the way people date and have relationships in those areas are vastly different to how they are in the more developed parts of the world. All the women my age were beautiful. It was rare to see a plain looking woman, and if a woman was plain looking, she still had glowing skin without makeup, radiant eyes, a genuine smile and a feminine personality. During my time there I would date women who I was genuinely attracted to, even if they weren’t the prettiest women in the area (they weren’t, but that wasn’t a problem).
The experience with these women was in contrast to my conversations I had with my roommates at university (who were all women, strangely) who I would watch television with sometimes and I would ask them if they thought a decent looking man on a television show was attractive, since I was curious on what they thought was attractive. They would always decline with the most petty of reasons, like his nose or ears look a bit too big or too small or he wasn’t wearing a nice shirt. From my conversations with them, I was quite shocked at how high their expectations were. The difference between the two cultures is that one culture encouraged the women and men to find a partner soon after they finish university and raise a family, and the other culture encourages women to not bother with relationships (unless the men are very attractive, which according to the OkCupid study, at least 80% of men are not) and just focus on the careers. I don’t have an opinion on which culture is objectively better or worse, but I found it was easier to find romance in the former culture.
I guess a few hundred years ago, when people were healthy, most people really didn’t look that bad and relationships weren’t very difficult to find as it was encouraged by society. But in developed countries, just healthy looking women are considered to be the most attractive women (If a woman is just a healthy weight, doesn’t have a skin condition or odd features, she’s automatically considered as attractive). Most women have skin problems from wearing so much makeup, resulting in having to wear more makeup, their eyes seem a bit sad, and they have a very critical and judgemental personality if a man doesn’t meet her expectations, meaning dating women can be a stressful experience for a lot of men. Though of course, in many aspects men aren’t any better.

> Ultimately, my opinion on these things doesn't matter.

Your opinion matters to me because I like learning from you in regards to sex and relationships.

Continued from my previous comment

Just to add to this. I found the following article:

In the article and the comments is a large collection of testimonies of men who complain that after giving birth, their wives become entirely different people, who no longer want any sex at all. They mention that they haven’t had sex with their wife for months, or even years. Their wife doesn’t want any intimacy at all.
However, curiously, much older men who married their wives a long time ago don’t have the same complaints. Instead they say their wife is still very loving and intimate.

Obviously I can’t make any serious assumptions with just that article alone. Perhaps their complaints are specific to that group of women alone, or that article attracts only the people who experience an unhappy marriage. I don’t know. But I’m writing this because it seems to affirm with what I written previously. Most women at present don’t want to marry anyone but the most desirable men (the most handsome or the most wealthy). This is just my assumption which is perhaps incorrect, but it is based upon my observations.

But while marriage rates are falling, people are still getting married. Women are still marrying some men who aren’t very wealthy or very handsome. With these observations, in addition to the above article and comments about marriages with no sex, this leads me to conclude that when women reach a certain age (late 20’s?), the natural desire to mate and give birth overrides the high standards she restricts herself to. Thus during this time there is a chance for a less attractive man to marry her. But when she marries and gives birth and begins raising a family, the natural desire to reproduce has now disappeared, and she is stuck with a partner she doesn’t love, because love wasn’t the reason why they got into a relationship or married (though the man may have thought it). With women where the natural drive to reproduce isn’t as strong for whatever reason, then these women choose to stay alone rather than marry.

I feel that this explains a lot of things easier than the theory that a lot of orgasms is what is causing a lot of divorces and unhappiness within marriage (which probably has an effect, but it is not so significant).
Firstly, couples in less developed countries, and marriages a long time ago, were not perfect but they were generally very happy and still loving, compared to today where so many men and women cheat on their partners and divorces are common. It’s unlikely that they had less orgasms with each other when they usually had large families.
Also men generally orgasm a lot more than women because it is easier for men to orgasm from sex than women, yet it’s mostly women who get bored of the relationship first and it’s mostly women who decide to get divorced. In the above article, there were plenty of comments from men complaining that their wife no longer desires sex with them. If the number of orgasms was significant, then it would instead be men who no longer desire sex with their partner. I’ve seen this trend a lot, and i’m not sure why it is. Why is it that the woman’s desire to have sex with her husband slowly decreases over time until she desires no sex at all, yet the man’s desire to have sex generally remains constant after a few months into the relationship?

If there is anything i’m incorrect about, please mention it. I’m happy to receive constructive criticism about what I’ve written because I’m just here to learn more about women and relationships. I don’t claim to be an expert on relationships and I’m sure there are a few things i’m wrong about.

I partly agree with you

I certainly agree that sexual behavior is changing. I have said this repeatedly. Men and women are both becoming more...driven by their primitive mating program, and less so by their bonding program.

This means men are looking for porn-style hotness, and women for alpha male$ and children. For the rest, men and women seem to enjoy each others' company less and less in terms of lasting companionship. Part of this is that porn-style sex quickly becomes too much stimulation, numbs sensitivity to pleasure, and becomes unappealing. And the solution in the mainstream is to "make things hotter in the bedroom," or add more partners (more novelty and risk) to the mix.

Women have unconsciously been trying to adapt to men's universal use of porn. Look at the success of Fifty Shades. But, this kind of intense stimulation is not sustainable. Habituation quickly sets in. And people are left mystified...even though the neurobiology of sex (and addiction) has clearly revealed the biological mechanism behind habituation. It's not "rocket science." And men on porn recovery forums have revealed the solution: less (overstimulation) is more (sensitivity to pleasure).

Still, what do we typically do? As orgasm feels less pleasurable...we "turn up the heat" until we give up on finding satisfaction. I think many women tend to reach that point faster than men...which is why I love men and male energy. If this situation is to be healed, men will have to take the lead.

Our mating programs were always present...and in tension with our pair-bonding mechanisms. But our mating programs are becoming "deafening" as we use sex just in pursuit of orgasm, with less daily affection for its own sake. Researchers aren't controlling for this possibility...because they simply haven't considered it.

Interestingly, when couples go to sex counselors, the counselors often recommend techniques like "sensate focus," which is essentially bonding behaviors and mindful first without the goal of orgasm.

So, I still believe the way out of the connundrum is sex without the focus on orgasm (and a focus on daily affection instead)...if couples want a better chance of sustainable relationships.

That said, good luck today...because women have little reason to hope for this, and increasingly less reason to even consider this option. They have bought the idea that they are "empowered" by pursuing casual sex and pursuit of sexual stimulation rather than relationships. And the men they have to choose from have also been altered by their porny pasts not to value companionship.

There are many studies correlating porn use with reduced sexual and relationship satisfaction, and if honest research were being done, the same thing would show up with sex toys...over time. The natural phenomenon of sexual habituation cannot be overcome with more stimulation - except in the short-term. Humanity is learning this the hard way.

Since you don't agree with my hypothesis, what do you think is the solution?


This isn’t just a modern phenomena. There were many cultures throughout history where women were promiscuous before marriage, could marry who they pleased and women often initiated divorce. This usually happened in the nomadic cultures. In these cultures, many women became the 4th or 5th wife to a very desirable man in her tribe (a relationship obviously based upon mating), instead of being the only wife to a normal man who she can bond with.

So I don’t think it’s a problem to be solved, or can be solved. It’s just the way things are, and how human beings naturally are. The most one can do is to find a partner who is open-minded and intelligent enough to understand Karezza, and also someone who hasn’t got a lifestyle of chasing novelty.

I do think that most modern lifestyles encourage the behaviour of chasing novelty, which reflects in one’s relationships. If one is always buying the newest and most expensive things, and then throwing them away when there is a slight problem (which can easily be fixed) or when something better comes along, it’s probably a good indication on how that person treats people.
I’ve always preferred to mend things, rather than throwing it away and getting something new. One of the main things I learned from it is when one looks after something well, even if it was made by someone else, builds a connection to it, appreciates it and fixes it, then it becomes far more special than anything expensive one can buy from the shop, use for a few days and then just throw away for the next best thing. I don’t see how relationships are different.
I noticed how some women would spend so much money on expensive clothes and shoes, only to just wear it for a few days and afterwards it is thrown to the back of the wardrobe, never to be seen again and the cycle is repeated with new clothes and shoes. I just couldn’t understand it and saw that they treated men in a similar way, but then I realised so many men have the same attitude (being excited to novelty, get bored of it and chase new novelty) in regards to pornography, prostitutes, relationships, etc. But unlike with women, when men chase novelty, it’s mostly directly to do with sex. But I think there is a lot of indicators like above which show if one’s lifestyle is about chasing novelty, or if one would be a good husband or wife who would be open to learning about Karezza.

And I do partly agree with you and your hypothesis. Karezza is the solution! That’s why there are so many men in the comments here who say once they started doing Karezza with their wife, they become disinterested with all pornography and novelty chasing.
But where I disagree is that I think the hypothesis is only completely correct in regards to men. And the reason I say that I think it’s because the male brain primarily chases novelty in regards to attractive women. When the man is satisfied with his wife, he surely is satisfied in all aspects of his life (it sounds like I’m being romantic, but I’ve seen it before as I’ve previously said. Men who previously spend all their time with pornography and video games, once they find a relationship, they leave all of it behind naturally. But of course it doesn’t last because they don’t practice Karezza with their wife or girlfriend).
But consider a man who has Karezza with his wife, but still watches pornography or visits prostitutes. Whatever benefit the Karezza provides in regards to stopping the desire to chase novelty comes to nothing (or is significantly reduced) if he is still engages in this behaviour.
But the female mind doesn’t primarily chase novelty in regards to attractive men. While she still desires a new and attractive mate, it seems to me (though I can’t say for sure because i’m not a woman) that most women primarily chase novelty with new clothes, new shoes, new hairstyles, browsing for new dresses, watching expensive lifestyles on instagram and television, travelling to new destinations which are high-status (Paris, Milan, New York, etc), and so on. Even when they are in a loving relationship, many women still deeply desire these things and get immediately excited and overjoyed when they receive it, which is only temporary due to the way the human mind works.
So like the example with the man who practices Karezza, but still has novelty-chasing behaviour, a woman may practice Karezza with her partner, and she may bond with him and perhaps begin to like him a lot. But when so many aspects of her life depends upon chasing novelty and thus the synapses of her nervous system remains the same and as desensitised as before, she still retains the strong desire for the most handsome and exciting mate she can seduce, or a very wealthy mate who can provide her with all her never-ending desires based upon the never-ending chase of novelty. And then what use is Karezza?

You said that you were surprised that most of the people who took an interest in your book and what you had to say were men. I think it’s because everything you say is very intuitive to men as it’s obvious to any man how irritable one gets after orgasm. But as you said, it is not as obvious to most women, especially because I think you said orgasms often affect women a few weeks after the event, not immediately afterwards.

Suppose a typical and average man (who has read about Karezza) finds a girlfriend who is a typical and average woman. As he is an average man, he has only had a few partners if any, but as she is an average woman she would have many partners, both long-term and short-term. Why would she sincerely listen to anything he has to say in regards to sex, when it is totally opposite to what she thinks, her experiences, her beliefs, and what she has been told by her friends, her therapists, instagram models, etc? I used to share the same apartment as other women while I was studying a few years ago (not through my choice, it just happened). One of the main things I noticed was that women generally listen to their friends far more than they listen to their boyfriend.
Both men and women are very confident in what they think and aren’t very open to sincerely change their minds. Even if the average man gives your book to his girlfriend to read, she would perhaps read the first 2 pages at most before she gets bored (your book is very interesting, but her nervous system is likely desensitised from a lifestyle chasing after novelty) and goes back to playing with her mobile phone, assuming her boyfriend is just bad at sex and starts thinking about someone else.
Even if she did read your book and agreed to practice Karezza, it may increase the bonding between them, but she still is going to be thinking about the more attractive and wealthy man she met the day before, for reasons I mentioned above.
Suppose this average man and his girlfriend break up. When he becomes 30 years old and tries to find a wife, he finds a woman the same age as him and she seems much friendlier than other women he has dated before. But if he tries to explain the concept of Karezza to his partner, why would she listen to him? It would sound like nonsense to her, considering it goes against everything she already knows. More importantly, it would get in the way of her reproducing which is her primary desire. She tells him she will not entertain the possibility of practicing Karezza until they have married and she is pregnant. But after she gives birth, she resists all affection and requests of intimacy from him.

So it’s very hard for a man to find a girlfriend or wife in the first place, with most women not willing to date anyone long-term who does not meet their expectations. And if one does find a girlfriend or wife, there’s not much chance of her being convinced to try Karezza. And if she is willing to try Karezza, I don’t think it would significantly improve the relationship, since the rest of her life would remain the same.
However, I think Karezza would work, if the woman is wise and virtuous, like the women of ancient times and like the women on this forum.

I fully sympathize

with what you describe, Yuuichi.

As I have said, I agree that women have the underlying program you describe: being drawn to novel mates, trying to "trade up," and so forth. It's the counterpart of men chasing sexually novelty.

And I agree that the current environment brings out the worst in both sexes. Some of the behavior you described isn't "female." It is caused by too much hand-held device addiction. Short attention spans are normal for many younger people of both sexes.

But back to relationships. Societies have generally developed customs that pushed people toward stable marriages...even polygynous marriages. One reason is that societies become very unstable without these rules. (If you were a father, would you want to have your pregnant daughter return to have you support her and her new family...or would you want to make sure the social order put responsbility on the real father to support them? I think the latter.)

So these strong societal rules pushed people toward more stable intimate relationships, and discouraged sexual-novelty chasing (even though some chasing went on, and some societies were more tolerant of it than others).

Now, those rules are breaking down. The fundamentalists cause their own brand of chaos...but their dire predictions about about the consequences of destabilizing relationships are being borne out. Personally, I hope something better is at the end of all this I'm not a fundamentalist.

You say I am biased in my presentation of women in my book. It's certainly possible that I am/was inadvertently biased - based on what I observed when working on the book over decades. But I would argue that I am probably no more inadvertently biased than you are - when basing your conclusions on what you see now...decades later.

I think we may both be right, because I think the situation is decaying rapidly, as pair bonds (and the social pressure behind them) are growing the face of so much artificial competition and "freedom."

In other words, it's quite possible that when I was writing, women weren't generally lacking in as much virtue as they are now (despite their underlying program), just as men weren't as messed up by porn when I was writing - even when I wrote the porn chapter in my book. In fact, an earlier version of my book didn't even have a chapter on porn. But by the time I wrote the second one, I was seeing a lot of suffering men on this very forum, and so it seemed well to tell their story. Women weren't yet watching porn to the degree they are now.

Things have been getting worse in this realm of sexual/relationship fulfillment for generations, and the process is speeding up. I like to hope that this may all eventually lead to a new understanding. But right now, the situation is ugly...and worsening.

But let me share a couple of other points.

First, my closest friend (Anya in my book) and I both noticed that when we shifted to practicing karezza consistently, our tendency to "consume" goods in the frivolous manner you saw in your female roommates dropped to the point where we both independently remarked on it. Karezza was supplying inner feelings of wholeness that we could see via these changes in our behavior. It really made me wonder if we humans would be depleting the planet the way we are if we were all practicing this. Healing a subtle sense of lack/depletion seems trivial...but it isn't.

With their purchases, your roommates are trying to fill a neurochemical "hole" (which I would argue is low dopamine). It's a craving. It is made worse by the pursuit of supernormal stimuli, but even in healthy people it shows up as the desperate desire to attract a mate.  New shoes are the equivalent of a new porn genre. Both offer a neurochemical "hit" of pleasurable anticipatioin that feels like a mood-altering medication...for a little while.

The point is that when you are no longer on that roller coaster because you have a mate and a stable, loving don't need the self-medication of constant "hits" of dopamine from novelty or drugs or the BDSM dungeon, or whatever...unless, of course, you have become addicted. That takes longer to turn around, and is very challenging.

I think the science behind what I'm saying is pretty clear, although sexologists don't want to believe it perhaps. Even in pair-bonding animals, those who are not bonded with mates consume more addictive drug-laced water, while those who were already paired up barely touch it.

The unfortunate flip-side of that is that those who are offered the drug-laced water before they are in a pair bond, may not pair bond at all...because their reward circutry has been hi-jacked to some degree by the artificial reward. With our enticement-laden environment that is available to young people before they connect with potential mates...we are setting up this second scenario. My book was an attempt to help people steer back toward the first...even if they have to heal a degree of addiction first.

The research below provides examples of the pair-bonding mechanism, its protective gifts, and its vulnerabilities. It appears that the neurochemical oxytocin is primarily associated with the benefits.


Nucleus accumbens dopamine mediates amphetamine-induced impairment of social bonding in a monogamous rodent species

Social Bonding Decreases the Rewarding Properties of Amphetamine through a Dopamine D1 Receptor-Mediated Mechanism

The behavioral anatomical and pharmacological parallels between social attachment love and addiction

Amphetamine reward in the monogamous prairie vole

Dopamine and opioid systems interact within the nucleus accumbens to maintain monogamous pair bonds

Biological Contribution to Social Influences on Alcohol Drinking: Evidence from Animal Models


The other field of research I think fits into this discussion is the research showing that porn users and erotica viewing actually impair humans' integrity. So far the research has been done on men, but I sometimes wonder if women are even more strongly and negatively affected. In my view, some of today's women who are pursuing hot sexual arousal full tilt are extremely unnerving. But maybe I've just become aware of a particularly...unfortunate sample. (And, as I believe the real mechanism has to do with the pursuit of dopamine hits to the point of imbalance in the brain...I hope you can see that this example could apply to social media addiction as much as to porn addiction.)

The point I want you to hear is that, overstimulating our reward circuitry chronically can interfere with our inner moral compass, thus altering our perception, our priorities, our actions...and thus our karma (assuming you believe in that sort of thing).

We are doing this to ourselves...and we don't understand how serious the problem is...or how to turn it around.

Here's an article I wrote about this: Sex and Morality: A Debate Between Competing Neurons.

I think your "virtueless" women might become quite virtuous if they were to understand what I have written above...and apply it. Certainly, I have been heartened by the shifts I have seen in many, many men who have unhooked from their chosen "drug" and allowed their brains to return to normal sensitivity to pleasure...such that they find real mates and everyday pleasures (music, friends, achievement, etc) deeply satisfying again.

We should take care not to judge the other sex without looking into their reward circuitry to see the state of its balance. We would likely be no better behaved if ours were out of balance.

I think that we generally agree

I think that we generally agree, now that I read your response, but I think there was some misunderstandings perhaps because I wasn’t clear in my writing. I never said you were biased towards women, or that women were bad or worse than men. I don’t take any of this personally, I’m just writing this as a way of better understanding women and relationships (and I think I’ve learnt a lot from this conversation, so thank you).

I’m trying to say that to find a wife, a man needs to look for a woman that accepts him. That in itself is very difficult in this time (though I know when you first wrote your book, things were different). It doesn’t matter if he watches pornography or not, it doesn’t matter if the synapses of his nervous system is sensitised or desensitised. In fact, the men who are incredibly desensitised are usually the most popular with women (the kind of men who spend their time in a nightclub or bar listening to very loud and stimulating music, bringing home a different woman or two each weekend). It doesn’t matter if you can or can’t romantically connect with a woman if one can’t get past the dating stage. And when the average man often finds someone, Karezza still isn’t an option, because the woman is only concerned about reproduction and raising a family.

The reason I say this is because you mentioned before a few times that the reason why there are fewer people having relationships is because of excessive use of stimulating pornography, causing men to prefer women who look like porn actresses.
I disagreed with this because as I written above, countries where pornography and prostitution are banned (South Korea for example, but also Russia and China) have also the same effects. I didn’t say what I said to complain, but to show why I didn’t agree that pornography is the cause behind a decreasing number of people getting married. Even in China, where there is extensive censorship over anything which may be considered as pornographic on all forms of media, the trend of fewer marriages and more divorces is increasing at the same rate as anywhere else:
So that’s strong evidence that pornography use is not the variable which is causing fewer relationships. Instead, there seems to be a coolidge effect arising in women that is causing this trend.
And also the vast majority of porn actresses have a very average looking appearance.

If you look at the forums you mentioned of men trying to stop watching pornography and having orgasms (I think someone called it ‘nofap’?), how many of those men are successful in ceasing watching pornography, even just for a few weeks? Sure there are some who succeed, but the vast majority of men don’t. And so they remain desensitised and unable to form a true loving connection with a woman (instead of just a lustful short-term relationship). But, as other comments in this forum have said, when a man practices Karezza with his wife, he naturally stops watching pornography and chasing novelty, which naturally rebalances his mind.
In the same way, if men had such a tough time trying to rebalance their brain through just the simple action of stopping watching pornography, imagine how hard it would be for women to do the same, when so many more things are exciting and stimulating to a woman (like going shopping for clothes and shoes with her friends, or playing with her mobile phone for example).
It would take a really wise woman to succeed where most people don’t. That’s what I meant by ‘virtuous’ which is just another way of saying a wise and learned woman.

But that was what I was trying to say in my last response. But you said that when you and your friend Anya started practicing Karezza, you both noticed a change in behaviour regarding the chasing of novelty. And all the links you provided that seem to suggest Karezza really does significantly change the behaviour of the person practicing it. That changes my understanding of Karezza a lot!
So my new understanding is that if a man does get a girlfriend or wife, even if she’s just using him to satisfy her lust, easing her loneliness, receiving money, or to reproduce (or the other way around of course, if an attractive man is insincerely in a relationship with a woman for the same reasons), which seems to be the main cause of a lot of relationships these days, instead of just love and friendship, then Karezza seems to change their personality and behaviour to desire instead a more genuine relationship? Have I got that right? It sounds amazing if true. My previous understanding is that it prevented the loss of attraction and increased the attachment of the people in the relationship, but to change someone’s personality and behaviour is much more significant!

However I still have one concern regarding Karezza, and that is it seems that this change of personality and behaviour caused by practicing Karezza, to become a more happy, loving and genuine girlfriend or wife (or boyfriend or husband) causes such a drastic change that it must take a very long time.
If it takes a long time (perhaps a few months?), I would suppose most people would get bored after several attempts of trying Karezza, give up and therefore leave or cheat before they are sensitive enough to experience the pleasurable experiences mentioned in your book?

You are right

that karezza is not an easy sell in today's environment. And you are right that part of the problem is that it is taking longer and longer for people to experience the benefits - just as it is taking longer for men to heal their delayed ejaculation and erectile dysfunction after they quit porn.

Brains are plastic...but they aren't liquid. And depending upon how well developed the brain pathways ("hooked" to the artificial stimulant) are, it can take a long time to return to normal. Perhaps some simply can't. However, we've seen guys report that they see improvements in their enjoyment of sex for several years. So it's worth the effort.

I completely disagree with you that China, and maybe even Korea (despite its valiant fight to remove porn from its internet ) are "strong evidence" that online stimuli are not at work. Some of the most clever technical geniuses in the world reside in those countries. I've even seen research from the Chinese (where "porn doesn't exist") revealing that porn use there is very high indeed. Given the rise of upskirting in Korea (the inspiration for which had to come from somewhere...), I think your culture isn't as far behind as you think. In any case, the video games today are becoming very pornified, and Korea seems to lead the world in gaming talent and enthusiasm. As explained, supernormal stimuli (porn, gaming, social media - all carefully engineered to be as "addictive" as possible -, engineered junk food, etc.) affect the brain such that "everyday pleasures" of the type our ancestors' brains registered as very enjoyable and satisfying, no longer register as pleasurable. And this tends to be a downward spiral for many - as they become desensitized and seek more potent stimulation, or longer use or whatever.

I wish I had an answer for you Yuuichi. I think massive re-education is needed, and I suspect things have to get even worse before they will get better.

Is there an activity you enjoy where you could meet women who aren't on their phones every instant? Dance class, hiking, singing, painting, some other hobby? That sounds like a better bet than competing with "the overstimulated" in a nightclub. Could be good for your peace of mind too.


> Is there an activity you enjoy where you could meet women who aren't on their phones every instant? Dance class, hiking, singing, painting, some other hobby? That sounds like a better bet than competing with "the overstimulated" in a nightclub. Could be good for your peace of mind too.

Not these days. With all the hobbies you mention, everyone who participates in them would be at least 20 years older than me. I guess since everywhere is getting more competitive and expensive, a lot of people just don’t know how to relax or don’t have the time to relax.

Personally I’m okay with being single for now. I’m still young, so there is still plenty of time to find a girlfriend. Thanks for the advice.

With your skills...and persistence

perhaps you could start a new club for your age group called "Get off you phone on a Sunday afternoon" and plan meet-ups to take try different food, play frisbee in the park (or the Korean equivalent), visit an interesting factory or museum, or whatever. A way for singles to meet without pressure.

You’re right

I read that study and you’re correct that pornography is watched by basically every country. I’m surprised, but the study showed it was widespread even at that time.

However there was another conclusion in that study, which goes against what you were saying previously, and I questioned most of the time on this forum. In the study, it says multiple times that time spent on the internet (watching pornography?) was *significantly* associated with more sexual behaviours.

You said before that pornography is the reason why there is a trend of a decreasing number of young people having sex or being in relationships.
Your hypothesis was that pornography causes men to be uninterested in dating women. I wrote a lot, saying it was the reverse.
I instead said it was financial and cultural reasons (like more financial freedom, more emphasis on pursuing a career than starting a family, more opportunities for casual sex with the most attractive men), that caused a lot of women to be uninterested in dating (most) men, while men remained as interested as they were previously, despite watching pornography.
This explains why most people on dating websites, from local dating websites to international dating websites, and most people on dating apps, are men. At dating venues and events which include both men and women, there are almost always more men than women. Even in bars and nightclubs, often men have to pay to enter while women are free to enter, and yet there are still usually more men than women. This doesn’t sound like pornography is causing men to be uninterested in dating women. Actually it seems that most women are becoming less interested in dating most men, which is causing the decrease in people having sex and relationships, which was what I was saying in the above comments.

You also said that the reason why men aren’t interested in meeting women is that they are accustomed to ‘porn-style hotness’, but you didn’t explain what this ‘porn-style hotness’ is. I’m not sure what it could be. Japanese adult actresses just look like normal, healthy women.

But I know I have mentioned the above more than enough. It’s just that I noticed one of the conclusions of the study didn’t agree with your hypothesis.

I am convinced from personal

I am convinced from personal experience and the research in CPA that ejaculative sex -- promoted as the norm and ideal in nearly all societies and cultures -- is the root of much addictive behavior.

My porn use was stopped cold in its tracks by Karezza with my wife.

I think Karezza (1) stops the dopamine roller coaster and (2) helps us feel love and connected, which can be very difficult to find and feel in the world.

From another side..

I was actually wondering- in a slightly different direction- if women ( South Korea?) or in general have really just had enough or have somewhat given up. I am reading Diane Richardson's book Tantric Orgasm for Women. I find it very compelling (the ideas are fairly comparable to Cupid's Poisoned Arrow, but with more of a focus on women cultivating their sexual energy and having slower, lengthened sexual experiences rather than intense orgasms). Granted, it is less scientific and more spiritually focused. However, she does mention that when women have allowed men to enter them countless times (whether with one partner or many) who have fast paced, ejaculatory goal oriented orgasms, that their sexual energy is not expressed in its more feminine form and their vaginas become desensitized and hurt by the intentional/unintentional trauma.
This is not to blame men- she says men are pressured to perform sexually in this way and hardly know any different- but if does draw attention to why perhaps many women are disappointed and perhaps end up blaming themselves for not being 'sexual' or for stopping sex with partners altogether. The disappointment and hurt becomes too great and perhaps seems insurmountable (even though it isn't- but vulnerability is challenging, especially after reinforced negativity).

This is without accounting for women choosing instead their own masturbatory practices to make up for this. Just a slightly different angle on the issue.

But that doesn’t explain why

But that doesn’t explain why the trends regarding relationships seen in South Korea for example are only happening in rich, developed countries. If that was the case, wouldn’t one see the same things happening on poor or developing countries too? But what you said is interesting and surely has some effect.

Why Only in Rich Countries?

I believe there is a dark Cabal that controls the world. I believe that members or their minions are in positions of power in politics, the military, industry, banking, law enforcement, media, medicine, religion, etc. I believe that the Cabal pits groups of humans against each other, so that we do not focus our attention on the underlying force -- the Cabal -- that causes war, disease, 'natural' disasters, child abductions, etc.

Two of the groups that the Cabal pits against each other is men and women. I believe that popular culture's focus on and worship of ejaculative orgasm in movies, TV, and music is purposeful. And, that purpose is to weaken men and cause strife between men and women, from unsettled neurohormones post ejaculative orgasm.

Male circumcision seems to be another Cabal project. Circumcision makes a man's penis less sensitive, leading to more forceful intercourse, which a woman could find uncomfortable or result in the male seeming to be remote and not emotionally involved. And, circumcision can result in pubic hair growing on the penile shaft, which causes irritation, sometimes very painful, in women. Both of these things can lead to less intercourse between partners, which weakens relationships and marriages.

I feel for young folks, as it seems from Yuuichi's posts that, quite possibly, the Cabal's efforts to put distance between men and women is highly effective today. I presume the Cabal's reach in less developed countries is much more limited, due to the absence of widespread watching of TV and movies. And, particularly pernicious may be Taylor Swift and similar singers who paint standoffish and cruel behavior as normal and ideal. I presume toxic Western and Eastern pop singers are not widely listened to in less developed countries.

Just my conspiratorial view of the world!