Starting this again

Rockhardington's picture
Submitted by Rockhardington on
Printer-friendly version

With finals finally over, I have the time and the space for a detox. It's been a long time since seriously staying away from the PMO, but I sure miss clarity and all of that. Today I did not PMO. This was the first day in a while. Didn't even think much of it either. Went on a date with a girl that I met in class and enjoyed her company and she seemed to enjoy mine, so that took the edge off. My car broke down (during the date in the middle of the street downtown during rush hour traffic) and we had to get towed. It was stressful, but I maintained composure, didnt get embarrased, and she was patient and collected as well. That was a good test. She's a Christian, so I don't know if that would ever work out, but so far she doesn't seem weird about things, so I will give her a chance.

My internal state wasn't great today, I could feel the shame and low self-esteem and that whole mess welling up. I'll need to keep doing what works so I will get back into an exercise routine, watch my diet, stay away from Pmo, and stay serious about work and school. With my car breaking down and some time off, maybe I can slow things down for a second and get things in order. More walking to the store will get me out of the house and engaged in the world too.


two questions

You've been here awhile. And it's been off and on for you for a fairly long time. You're obviously a very smart guy with a lot going for him.

I smoked marijuana for a long time, day and night. Smoking weed served to prevent me from being bored and dealing with a lot of things in my life. It gave me a social life of sorts with similar people. When I identified my desire to really quit completely, it only happened when I found a substitute for all those times in my day or week when I'd use weed.

So let me ask you this.

What is the reason, do you think, that you PMO? What is the role that serves in your life? And the second question is, what substitute behaviors can you think of to replace that?


Those are good questions.

Those are good questions. Perhaps break things down a little more. Try to seperate porn, masturbation, solo orgasm, coupled orgasm, etc. as the answer to the same question might be different for each. 

These are good points and I

These are good points and I appreciate the feedback. There are things that I do not want to deal with for sure, maybe I will confront them for a while, then maybe get tired of the struggle or get stressed and revert back to my old ways. It's all about handling stress and anxiety for me. If I can prevent that downward spiral from starting, I do a lot better. And it's true freedom, it's good to strategize with each thing differently.

Can you build in some save

Can you build in some save points so that there is less starting over? I'm guessing you've done that to some extent.

How open are you about your issues with the women you date? Maybe you could start from the ground up in a healing relationship centered on total honesty or whatever you think could work for you.

That's a nice thought.

That's a nice thought. Although I am not willing to share everything from my past, partly because I do no think some people are capable of understanding. One of my ex's had a history herself and we kind of agreed that the past was not that important so we decided not to go into details. We were fairly successful, but we both really liked orgasm and we spiraled a bit.

This lady who I was seeing admitted to me out of the blue that she was a sex addict the other day. When I told her that I was too, she seemed disappointed because she knew that things were not going to be the same. When she called up a few days later for sex, it seemed awkward and I just told her I was doing finals.

I'm all for honesty, and with this new girl, I am going to ease my way into it. She seems very understanding and mature, so there might be something there. As far as forum girl, I'm not sure how to break up with someone I was never officially together with. Also, she is from a different culture and freaks out if I stop talking to her, but she is so attached, she will do whatever she can to keep me in the picture. If I am honest with her, I do not know she will process it the same way. She has a different interpretation of what it means to be together and all of that. To her, the next natural step is to get married and have kids. To me, this was just one of many relationships that didn't quite work out.

I wasn't thinking labels or

I wasn't thinking labels or your past. More who you are now on a values level. Maybe you could get the mirroring you need by spelling out the implied aspects and thus talking about whatever you might be resisting. If you are not learning from each relationship, chances are that your same 50% will bring you to the same place with most women.

Yes, true talk. I had been

Yes, true talk. I had been seeing a therapist for a while and we were touching on this. I identified that which is holding me back as shame. It's been an issue for awhile. When I'm in my cycle of acting out, whatever form, it's nearly impossible to address shame. It's in those times of abstinence that I've had the most progress.

It's been 3 days since PMO, but I have been doing paleo for 2 days too. In short, I feel like hell today. I've been sleeping a lot, headache since I've started, stomach a little off, and the foggy brain, bad dreams. You know you are hitting bottom in your dreams when an ex is pregnant and you have spider issues!

I've tried giving up both at the same time before and although it's difficult, there are moments of clarity before the cravings hit. I've never really done more than 2 weeks of paleo, I start getting weird CFS symptoms. The back of my throat is already swelling like I have an infection. I'm also pretty weak.

This time I do have my supplements. This will be interesting to see how effective supplements are in helping with this process. I don't expect much initially because I know that this withdrawal is coming on strong, but maybe it will help relieve some of the energy issues later on. I hope to start exercising soon after this first dip. As of right now though, I am pretty much stuck in the bed.

What do you mean by address

What do you mean by address shame? Maybe it is more productive to focus on what you can do rather than on what is holding you back.

Do what you can that is healthy to ease this roughness. Try using will, reframing, etc. to see if you can shift this period.

How paleo are you going? Full

How paleo are you going? Full on grass fed beef and organic veggies paleo or get a steak at a restaurant with a side of veggies paleo? I find it a lot easier to give myself space or else the food starts to kind of dominate your life and is not as enjoyable.

Haha, get a steak at a

Haha, get a steak at a restaurant with a side of vegetables paleo. Except, I dont do beef, so fish. I hear you. It is a tough transition so I am taking it easy, and I also waited until after finals. But the past few days have been rough for sure.

Yeah, that'll happen. I eat

Yeah, that'll happen. I eat paleo/primal probably 75% of the time and I really enjoy it. Occasionally I'll have pizza or a little bread but I never crave pasta, rice or really any starches anymore. This sounds crazy, the evidence is there though, but I will occasionally fast and afterwards I appreciate paleo food even more. It's akin to not watching porn anymore and appreciating real women. I used to think fasting was harmful but I've seen the studies, there are a lot of benefits. Do you not eat beef for the ethical reasons or you just don't like it?

I've noticed food being

I've noticed food being tastier after fasting too. It's also interesting to eat after a lot of physical activity (well beyond a normal workout routine). Food might not have the same heightened taste and yet the entire body seems to enjoy the food. There might be something to thinking with the gut (enteric nervous system).

I agree completely. With

I agree completely. With fasting it just makes sense, once you take something away then healthier(blander tasting)foods taste a lot more exciting. With food tasting better after a lot of physical activity I would have to say that it perhaps could be the body's way of getting more nutrients.

Yes, it seems the body is

Yes, it seems the body is wanting the nutrients. Or perhaps the brain creates that feeling. When we eat on a normal day, food can be bland and the body isn't hungry. Who's hungry? It's in our head that we have to eat so many meals, at certain times, of a certain amount, etc. Rather than worry about starving, maybe we should worry about eating too much. Some sort of reverse scarcity model might make sense. One way to eat less is to cherish the freedom to eat whatever one likes later. Usually one doesn't want it later. Maybe that can be adapted to paleo. If one doesn't eat this non-paleo now, one can indulge later in a better non-paleo.

Pasta used to be my thing,

Pasta used to be my thing, but once I started playing around with my diet, I saw how it affected me. That's a good observation too about porn/food. I don't eat beef because I was vegetarian for so many years that I havent been able to go through with it. I just don't have any interest in it either. I'm learning a lot of paleo recipes and I'm eating pretty well considering. It's been about a week and a half of strict paleo, so I'm still having some cravings, but I get windows of clarity. This reminds me of the feelings I would get from abstaining- relief from my mind and some clarity.

Slipped up on the PMO this

Slipped up on the PMO this week, but I am starting anew. I was caught off guard by Forun girl because I tried to break up with her. She just laughed and told me not to worry about it, that she knew it was temporary. End of story, but not really. So we decide to keep it light, but not really that either. Of course we start flirting and find ourselves back at it in a few hours. But I think she's got some weird stuff in her head about the relationship. But for now we are fine. For sobriey's sake, I wish she weren't so sexually available to me.
I had a date with a girl I met in class the next day and I thought for sure I would mess this up somehow because I had just dealt with forun girl the day before. Plus I am attracted to her and that usually ends with me f@*king it up and her storming out of my house feeling powerful and indignant. But she was pretty mellow and we were able to just vibe for the night. She was giving me all the signals so I kept going and going until we were in bed. The only unnerving thing about this was that she is a Christian and afterwards she was talking about how she gave into temptation, etc. She seemed shut down and preoccupied with this thought. We cuddled for a while and she seemed to warm slightly, but it seemed like a heavy weight on something that didn't need to be complicated, but at the same time I understand from my own experience how much religious beliefs and sex can be intertwined in strange ways. We met again a couple of days ago for another date and the same thing happened. I like her, but I just do not think we are compatible. Christianity seems like such a dark world to me and we have completely opposite views of the world. I will give her a chance, but I don't see this going anywhere. It's too bad, she is bright, but put religion into a bright person's mind and it just spreads like an infection. I've spent half my life trying to recover from the effects of religion and I'm not sure if I could stomach much more of it. Now if she were zen religious, it'd be on!

Did you tell

Christian girl that you are quite happy to just cuddle at this point in your relationship, and thank her for spending that time with you?

Great job controlling yourself and not pushing for more!

Can you explain to Furun girl about how you are a sex addict and how having orgasms for you is like an alcoholic having a drink? Can you enlist her help? Tell her she can have all the sex and orgasms she wants (within your abilities to give that to her), but that you want to avoid orgasms for yourself?

Have you ever tried karezza? How was it?

Every once in a while I try

Every once in a while I try to get control of my sexuality again. I have been seeing and sleeping with three women and it is quite a feat to try to coordinate all three relationships. 2 of them do not know that I am seeing other women, but they probably suspect it. And in my mind, I am not committed to no one. One of the ladies told me that she has sought professional treatment for sex addiction so I let her read the SLAA book I have because she has never attended meetings. I find it interesting that she suffers some psychosomatic disorders that are similar to mine. She calls me when she wants sex and I do the same with her. She has problems with intimacy and does not like to cuddle so she leaves after sex. My sex addict loves this arrangement, but I feel that it is also detracting me from connecting to myself and a serious partnership. The other girl I am most smitten by, as far as our physical chemistry. She is quite a bit younger and gives me shit tests galore. She has some power over me that reminds me of some of my exs, meaning that she is kind of tuned in to my weaknesses and insecurities and is a little flighty. I'm attracted to her and think she is a decent person, but has a lot less understanding of relationships and herself. She is a Christian and is often at conflict with herself when it comes to sex, but she also gets turned on at the drop of a hat. Sex with her is great because I am attracted to her, but she is not all that present either. She does like to cuddle, but she has cold streaks where she doesnt say much. I get a sense that she feels conflicted. I know that she likes me and it seemed like she was hinting that she wanted a relationship, but she also pulls away too in some disturbing ways. Forun girl just laughed at me when I tried to break up with her a few weeks ago. She just said that that is too serious of talk, which was nice because I didn't want to talk serious. I think she thinks we are together sometimes, she definitely wants to have this boyfriend fantasy at any cost. We went on a vacation over the weekend and she was very pleasant to be around. I don't have any troubles with her at all. I won't say that she's submissive, but she certainly doesn't put up a struggle just to put up a struggle like most women I've dated do. Most want to argue just to argue! We just quietly support each other and have interesting conversations. I can throw on a biology podcast and we're entertained, we discuss the things we are learning about in our program and discuss practical life issues. And she is sharp as a whip too. As I'm preparing to take the next leap in education/career, I can't afford to be wasting precious mental resources on arguing just to be arguing. This is the main reason I'm thinking of forun girl in a more serious way. She is just a pleasant person to be around.

Classes start again next week, but I've been busy trying to get organized. I let things go during the semester and the breaks aren't really breaks, its me trying to get things straight. Havent been keeping up with much as far as exercise and diet, but I've been working on a lot of other work/school/finance type things.

I am going through some

I am going through some pretty nasty mental withdrawals at the moment. I have been without PMO for a week, 5 days into the paleo diet, and started back at the gym after a 2 month hiatus. I am feeling tired, sore, horny and hungry. Regardless, I feel stronger inside and despite the withdrawal feelings, I'm feeling moments of ease and comfort. The supplements have helped enormously to deal with the extreme physical dips that I am used to in this phase of recovery. I still need to show up for work and school, so the supplements help me with this right now.

I decided to break it off with the one girl that I was attracted to. This was extremely difficult to do, but addict was not happy and there were times that I regretted it, but I feel that it was the best thing. I do not feel that she was respecting me and was keyed into my "nice guy" qualities. I could actually see us developing a relationship, but the dynamics and habits we were setting up weren't in my best interest for my recovery in addiction/nice guyism. I feel that our relationship would have fed my nice guy. I might have overreacted to something she did, but I set a boundary for myself that she wasnt cool with. That alone was a dealbreaker for me. I also found that her life focus was not consistent with my own. I value education, career, traveling, and knowledge while she values religion, family, and country homes.

The sex addict girl I havent even talked to. I probably wont either until she wants to give me back my book. But right now, Im not even thinking about sex or anything with her.

Forun girl is still in the picture, but I have not had orgasm with her in a while. I explained the karezza/addiction paradigm to her and she understood it. We've had sex recently, but I did not orgasm. I didnt really want to. I could have, but frankly, it was easy not to because Im not really all that attracted to her. She's cool though and I like being around her.

Summer classes started this week and I will be busy. I was able to finish last semester off strong and I am feeling that momentum. This first week and withdrawals havent been all that nice mentally, but there is no convenient time for withdrawals. The mental stuff is always harder for me. Ive avoided mental stuff for a while because I've been in relapse mode after less than a week for many months now. The mental/emotional stuff usually comes after the physical withdrawals for me. Right now I am getting the first of this. I am feeling rage in a major way. I havent acted on it or focused it on anyone, but I can feel it festering. I would consider rage a good sign, a sign of progress in the past, and I still think its a good sign, but I need to be careful not to let it subvert me or cause harm. I am around a lot of sensitive issues at my work and the emotional tension is difficult at times to deal with. My rage has been focused on my mother recently because we got into a fight. I was reminded of the shame that she instills and still tries to instill in me as a form of control. I tried to set up a boundary with her and things crumbled quick. It wasnt the most graceful way to set up the boundary, that was part of it, but now we are dealing with some deep-seated stuff on both our ends. I havent really had the wherewithal or energy to meet this emotional demand this week either as I have been sleeping, recovering, and getting into my classes. There is no convenient time for this stuff, we can only really learn to change and adapt.

on the diet front

be sure you get enough carbs. Yams, turnips, beets, sweet potatoes...I find it is very draining and feels really crappy not to get enough carbs. There is no reason to be hungry on the paleo diet either. And when you are drained of carbs and hungry you are not your best self.

Take good care.

Thanks. I'm not as strict on

Thanks. I'm not as strict on the paleo, but use it as a guideline to help manage health.

I tried to break it off with the Christian girl, but I ended up emailing her and she came over. We didn't have sex even though I tried of course. It was decent, we talked but I could feel those patterns building up that I consider bad for me. It pulls at my addict in a special way. It's that sense of powerlessness to your sexuality. Quite painful. While on the other hand with forun girl, it's the exact opposite, but equally unfulfilling. I would like to break the cycle and it seemed like it was starting to calm when I took o out of the equation, but my encounter with Christian girl and all of the feelings welled up and the next time I saw forun girl, I just wanted to o.

I had 10 days Pmo free and it was nice. It's been a while. I want to get back there again. I was in a good space for a second. Now I'm feeling some of the lows. I miss the benefits of even just struggling and moving forward piecemeal. I guess I still am, but much more floundering this way.

School/work hasn't been too affected by this. I seem to keep showing up when I need to there. Its a little obsessive in nature, but it does the trick. I was definitely clearer on my up days last week though and that seemed to help with an important interaction. I do have a jealous co-worker trying to sabotage me which is kind of stressful, but ive been protecting myself.

Trying to recover from the

Trying to recover from the hangover mid-week. Second day today and not feeling too hot, but I was in the zone last week. I hope to get there again. Want to recover and not binge multiple times, but just recognize what emotions brought me to that point. I recognize this last time had to do with the feelings that were coming up from being in contact with Christian girl. She's a church girl, but I get the impression that she's not all that healthy. The problem is that I'm a bit addicted to her and the sex. For some reason, it might be the exit sign or her vibe, but I crave her. After noticing this tendency, and I have been here more than once and havewitnessed a few disasters, I am preparing for the worst. My first thought was to break it off for my own well-being and just keep life simple with forun girl, but i felt off doing that. I guess I like the exit sign on christian girl and I guess forun girl likes the exit sign on me.

I'll feel better in a couple of days

Yes, not everyone is the same

Yes, not everyone is the same. Forun girl is sniffing around the room and all of that. I told her a long time ago that I didn't want to be with one person. When I bring this kind of thing up she just laughs and calls me silly, but I also feel that she would be hurt if she found out. We have not had the exclusivity conversation, but I do remind her that we are not together. She knows she is going back to her country next year, but I feel that she wants a romance while she is here. I do genuinely enjoy her company.

However, karezza is back in the picture. Christian girl and I had a date last night. Most of our dates have consisted of a movie in my room with my bed as the only place to sit! But I did want to switch it up a little and so I took her out. She seemed to appreciate it and we had a good and healthy time. I was 4 days in and I was feeling stronger in myself. We ended up back in my room watching a movie which consisted of us getting close again. Things get heated and she starts to pull away saying that she should go home. But we just calm down and we start talking about things. She tells me that she wants to hold off on sex because she feels better about her spirituality and wants to put that before the sex. I am in agreement with her and start telling her about karezza and my experiences with abstaining. She seems to feel relieved and we feel close emotionally. But then I think this turned her on! We are just cuddling and I notice that she is responsive to my movements and her own movements are sexual, which increases my own sexual movements. We start kissing and things get heated again and we are soon on a roll. I pull away and I let her, but then we are right back at, only deeper involved. I pull away again, but then just lies there in the most inviting pose possible. We both just go for it and we are soon having sex, the very thing we talked about preventing 20 minutes earlier. We finish and she is troubled and cold and starts crying. I speak to her about some things, but she just feels troubled. She leaves and I just felt pretty disoriented and bad in general, thinking that sex shouldn't be like that, it should be nice. This was hectic. We talked today and she was apologizing and all of that for overreacting. And I let her know that I wanted to keep trying to proceed with approaching things with more caution, but also let her know that it's a progressive thing and it's likely that we will slip up again. She gives mixed signals, so I am just trying to give her the space to deal with this. It seems to be a "Christian crisis" where she is questioning her beliefs and approach and all of that. I have given her mixed messages too. I pretty much let her go last week because I was unsure of things.

Have you noticed how

Have you noticed how uncomplicated things seem with forun, at least in terms of what you write about? Is that something about her or is the relationship complicated behind the scenes?

It's a good point. Things

It's a good point. Things are very easy with her. No games or weirdness. She comes from a Buddhist tradition and is well educated, so that might have a lot to do with it. No, things are pretty simple all-around. I just wish I was attracted to her like I am with Christian girl. Christian girl seems like she pushes me, forun just let's whatever happen. Christian girl is becoming more open with me and I am with her, but I feel like she has a lot to learn and experience in life. Forun girl I get the impression that even though she hasn't experienced all of these other things, she doesnt really have a need to. She doesn't have this gaping hole in her existence that I see with Christian girl. I get the impression that Christian girl could go ham at any moment and go off the deep end like many sexually repressed individuals learn to do. I see the sex addict in her for sure deep in there.

Attraction isn't only

Attraction isn't only physical. Cultural aspects cause women to carry themselves in different ways. We're conditioned to prefer some of those ways.

Do you see more of yourself in Christian?Have you tried karezza with forun? I guess you would have to give up orgasm all around to see what happens.

Do you feel forun chose you and not the other way around?If so, does that bother you?

What about boundary pushing appeals to you?