I had it all wrong...

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I had known something was wrong for quite some time. We both thought that porn and masturbation were pretty normal, and that orgasm was definitely normal (and good). But sex with my wife had become routine. It didn't matter that I still find her very attractive after almost 20 years of marriage. In order to be able to perform sexually, have and maintain an erection, and enjoy the feeling of sex, I had needed to watch porn with her, smoke marijuana and fantasize actively during the sex act which normally lasted around 20 minutes consisting of the same oral sex, the same positions, mechanical in-and-out, and usually resulted in an orgasm for her and always an ejaculation for me. In spite of that, I still thought it was pretty good and I couldn't understand why she didn't want to do that more than once a week (and often only every other week). Even though I looked forward to our sex dates, I usually felt somewhat apprehensive when they approached. What if I couldn't perform even with all the extra sex aids I was requiring?

I was judging myself pretty harshly for needing the pot, porn and especially the fantasies which mostly focused on having sex with other (inappropriate) people. Given my limited understanding of things at that time, I believed that the fantasies were the problem; what I thought I needed was to get healthier fantasies! I laugh about that now, but I really didn't know better.

For the past few weeks, we've been reading from Cupid's Poisoned Arrow to each other every night. And we've been trying karezza with what we've learned so far. This weekend we had a really nice breakthrough. Things started nice and slow, with lots of generous light touching and kissing. When we got to gentle penetration, that lasted for about an hour. We were both really enjoying the feeling of being inside each other and present with ourselves and each other. So I asked her if she wanted to stop, and she said, "no, I want to keep going"! That was a first. She said she couldn't remember ever being that wet. Erection was effortless, and all without artificial chemical, visual or mental stimulation. And no orgasms!

We have a lot to learn yet, but we're enjoying the journey. She said today that she is really looking forward to making love with me all evening tomorrow, on a weeknight! That's another first. Needless to say, we are feeling much closer, our moods are both more positive and there is almost no emotional friction. That's an amazing turnaround in only a few weeks.

From this vantage point, passing on a few 10-second orgasms seems like a small price to pay for all of that!
[From another post by same guy]

While I took to the idea pretty quickly, it wasn't instantaneous. I had my own doubts (as did my wife). But there were a number of factors working in our favor that made the transition quick and relatively easy

- I am recovering from PMO. That's what drew me to karezza; that people recommended it as a way to successfully reboot with a partner. I wanted to be done with porn, so I was motivated.

- I'm a motivated learner and fast reader. I quickly consumed lots of material from Marnia's book, Diana Richardon's books, Osho's books, and the internet.

- My wife and I have done lots of "spiritual work" before, so our ability to access the present moment has been practiced; certainly not perfected, but we're not plagued by "monkey mind".

- To let go of goals and to give selflessly requires a level of generosity and maturity that many adults lack, sadly.

- I don't have a particularly addictive tendency. I now view orgasm as a potent addictive drug, so I imagine it's harder for some to give up on that basis alone. The mind will play all sorts of rationalization tricks to "get the drug".

- I practiced non-demanding touch with the intention of just giving my love for about two weeks before attempting any kind of gentle penetration with my wife. That built trust, allowing her to open. When her heart opened, so did mine, and off we went. So our first few experiences were very pleasurable and satisfying, creating a powerful touchstone for us to recall whenever confronted with desire for orgasm. It's not that we don't want the pleasure of orgasm; we both still do. It's just that we don't want to lose the far greater pleasure we have now.

- I have DE from years of PMO, which makes it easy for me to not orgasm; I have to "try" in order to have an orgasm.

I suspect that you're right - that generally, people will not have many of these factors in place, and will have a hard time even grasping the concept of why they would want to do this in the first place. It's why Marnia's book is so brilliant; that she explains all of that. It's funny how the link between sex and pregnancy is so obvious to us, but the link between orgasm and marital conflict is not.



wow what a great story

so wonderful that you and your wife are connecting this way.

It gets better and better, unimaginably better, but remember that it is not a straight line. We can all expect a few speed bumps. Let us know when or if you have any questions or difficulties. Glad to have you here!

Quick update

Thanks for the kind and supportive words.

We are firmly on this path. My wife told me that karezza is her new spiritual path! We've had a number of wonderful love-making sessions. We don't call it having sex anymore; we call it making love. That felt a little awkward at first, but now it feels right. Sometimes I find myself feeling totally in the moment and just channeling love through my hands and penis (which she tells me she can feel). Other times, I find the old "fucking" program lurking about. Old habits die hard. And I am just regaining sensitivity in my penis (and everywhere else); that will take time, and I'm ok with that. It's helpful to hear how others describe their path, speed bumps and all.

The other morning, after an hour and a half of beautiful lovemaking the night before, she told me she dreamed of rockets. During the next evening's lovemaking, she had a surprise orgasm and had nightmares that night.

Yesterday she told me that she never wants to have another orgasm! And I feel the same way. Of course, there is still the part of me that wants that concentrated explosion of pleasure, but that thought is quickly extinguished by the awareness of how fleeting that experience is, how unpleasant the resulting hangover is, and, oh yeah...let's not forget all that amazing PIV time. And also there are these highly pleasant feelings I have almost all the time now. My wife describes it as this full feeling; like she's somewhat engorged all day (in a nice way). When we come together during the day during normal activities, like doing dishes or whatever, I can just come up to her, our bodies meet, there is a brief embrace, maybe a soft kiss on the neck or the lips. I can feel the warmth pouring from her heart into mine and circulating around my pelvic area; all without feeling the need to do anything about it; just to be able to have those moments of pure connection throughout the day. This is something I've always wanted to share with her but could never achieve until now. I love it; it's so beautiful. She is so beautiful.

I told her that I used to feel as though I was walking on eggshells most of the time; that it was hard sometimes to figure out when was a good time to talk to her as I would often get a somewhat hostile reaction. But lately she has been very approachable. The edge in her voice has been replace by a calm, soothing tone. Her impatient wide-eyed expression has been replaced by soft, gentle eyes. The eggshells have gone. In their place, there is this warm feeling. I think we've gone from being [unintentional] adversaries to being partners.

I don't think that this style of lovemaking actually manufactures our good feelings towards each other. I think they were there all along, but were being attenuated or even suppressed by the constant orgasm fallout. Now it feels more like when we were first falling in love; looking forward to our time together, thinking about each other throughout the day and so forth. I also think that releasing expectations and loving selflessly has also helped to restore trust. I think we made such quick progress because we spent the first couple of weeks with just gentle touching which helped to build the trust (her words). Fortunately for us, there wasn't much healing to do because it only took a couple of weeks. We are both enjoying this journey so much. I'd say that we're looking forward to finding out where it leads, but truthfully, we're just too busy enjoying what's happening right now... Wink

I am exceedingly grateful for the work Marnia and Gary do, for her book, for their websites, and the community that is here. It has changed my life.

it doesn't lead anywhere

you're already there :)

But it does get better and better and better in my experience. I think it takes a year to really get the full benefit and it has been unbelievable in my life and still getting better. So happy you're here.


Long way to go

I think I know (at least partly) what you mean about it getting better and better.

Part of what's so captivating now is that our desire for each other has gone thermonuclear. That makes it very challenging to keep the heat down. Last night was the perfect example. Things started slow and nice, but I suspect that we "got away from ourselves" a bit too much; especially me. I think a good barometer for me might be, "in this moment, am I having sex or making love"? There were some moments, especially towards the end where we were definitely having sex. I found out later that my wife had a mojito with dinner; she thinks that might have contributed.

Also, we're still enjoying some oral foreplay. I think it will be a while before that changes. Speaking for myself, I could probably go without receiving it, but she really loves to give me oral, like really loves it; and I don't want to take that away from her. Also, I really enjoy giving oral to her. I think it's a good sign that we're both focused on the pleasure we feel in the giving, although we might benefit from practicing other, less stimulating ways to transmit our affection Wink

Even though neither one of us had an orgasm, my wife reported this morning that she feels somewhat like she did the day after her last orgasm, although that was only 6 days ago, so in some ways, it's going to be hard to really conclude anything.

I'm going to suggest tonight that we slow things down for the next few days; maybe forego intercourse and just do some exchanges until we feel a little calmer. Does that seem like a good idea given what I've reported?

I'm in such unfamiliar territory here. She's never responded like this before, it's like we've let the genie out of the bottle, and she's enjoying her new-found freedom. So as a recovering porn addict, I'm finding it very difficult to remain relaxed and not get triggered by her volcanic goddess hotness. I mean we're talking about like 50x the PIV time I'm used to, and it all feels really really good. It increases the challenge level for me enormously that she's really smoking hot (more so than any porn or fantasy), and seeing her writhing and hearing her moan and say how good it feels; it's so hard to stay relaxed and control myself. In some ways, I wonder if I still have some lingering DE from my reboot, and if that might be part of why I can "suffer through" all this amazing sex without orgasm. And she's just learning too; I asked her a couple of times if I was taking things too far, and she said no. But I think neither one of us is practiced in knowing where that line is for us...and it's a razor's edge at the moment. Any advice about how to effectively "take our temperature" during sex and know when it's time to turn the heat down? I don't think not having an O is a reliable indicator.

I still have a lot to learn, but it's the most fun course I've ever taken.