New insight

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After so many years of marriage, I just had an insight. I'm in a different place now around our sexual connection; much less needy and not pushy or demanding at all. Karezza has given me that gift. But I've been noticing that our frequency of relaxing and connecting, and ultimately intercourse varies wildly. Sometimes we go every day. Other times it's 1x per week or two. I think the difference has to do with when we're in a good Karezza rhythm vs. when we're not.

Even though I'm not in a needy place any more, I still want to connect regularly. It's a priority for me, but it's not always for her. Often she is busy with other things and is almost always tired. When I approach her in the evening, after our kid has gone to bed, I think she still perceives the approach as some sort of sexual expectation, even though I have none and say so all the time; so much that it seems repetitive.

My insight is that I'm so used to "begging" for her attention that it has become a part of my unconscious reality. I don't need to do that any more, but it's a habit. It's o.k. for me to expect some level of communication around how we plan our time together. It's acceptable for me to expect that she makes our together time a priority. I no longer have any expectations about how we spend that time, as long as it's some form of connecting, relaxing and touching and that it's frequent. It's our sacred time together, and if we don't have that, then what's the point?

I think she's also used to our old pattern, so she's still unconsciously defending against the expectation, turning my gentle inquiries into the perception of sexual begging, even when it's not. I can tell from her tone of voice and body language. It feels like a rejection; like there's frustration and an edge to her in those moments. I realize that I can only control my side of it. I can't control how she perceives what's happening. For what it's worth, this dynamic completely goes away when we hit a good Karezza rhythm; but even in the absence of orgasms, we still need the regular bonding or we drift into these unconscious, uncomfortable patterns of relating.

I respect the fact that sometimes she needs to get stuff done. But I don't want our together time to be an afterthought; something that happens only if there is time and energy left over after everything else gets done. Like with money, if you don't pay yourself first, you'll always have an empty bank account. So I will ask her how much time each week she is willing to set aside as sacred; not to be used for any other purpose besides for us to connect. That may seem contrived or somehow lacking in spontaneity, but we do actually have a really busy, full life; so if I don't do that, our busyness will use up all of our time and energy leaving nothing left for us.

I can already feel the resistance she will have to committing to this, but it's important to me. I can't see any reason why she couldn't prioritize our together time and allocate a minimum amount of time each week for it. Maybe we set aside at least 3 whole evenings a week and both commit to clearing our minds of any tasks - we have the rest of the week for that. I don't think that's asking too much. She doesn't need to feel energetic to relax with me. I have to get stuff done too, and I'm tired of begging, trying to guess when she's going to say "yes", and being rejected. The time for that has past.

So for right now, I will just be patient and wait for her to come to me (she will eventually); and when she does, then I will talk with her about this.

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Interestingly, almost as soon

as I finished writing this, she came to me and said she wants to do the exchanges, and is committed to doing that for the next few weeks, so I didn't even need to bring it up.

She also confessed to having been harboring a resentment for something that had happened, so I'm glad she told me about it. I could feel it, but I just didn't know what it was about. Communicating about feelings is still hard for both of us when we're not in K-space.

I'm thrilled that we're heading into the exchanges.

Great to hear! Maybe she

Great to hear! Maybe she received a telepathic message from you about what was (reasonably) on your mind.

Now, she needs to work on her telepathic sending of messages (ha, ha) so you can know what is really bothering her before it goes on too long without resolution.

Happy bonding and exchanging!

Interesting experience about neediness for intimacy

I had this as well when I stopped masturbating and also stopped having orgasms with my wife. She always wanted O's, but we had not so often sex, and also in the time between intercourse she was not very open to intimacy.

So we came back to old habits. Means PMO on my side and then hot sex with my wife, she having orgasms - then nothing between us for one or two weeks. And I always was the one who was trying to caress her, and she not not really responding to it. Also a lot of tension in normal life.

Two days ago, I got a message from a German site about Karezza, if I could join again after more than one year, there are some guys who needed someone to communicate with.

From that moment I had no need for Masturbation. I started to read here again at reuniting, felt manly and strong, came to your post and just a I had finished, my wife asked If I would come to bed. Which she doesn't do normally.

Yes, she was open for sex and I decided to be the leading part - and leading the sex to karezza. So we did everything very carefully, tried something new, had some giggling. Always when she tried to get into the hotter mood I didn't respond much. I knew she was ready for orgasm, but I didn't give her one.

I think for most men it's very important and tempting to give her wife an orgasm - and somehow cruel not to do. But I was very decided. I knew that the hormone roller coaster from her last orgasm was gone after 12 days or so, and I wanted the more relaxed connection with my wife to last for a longer time.

So I refrained from everything which could give her an orgasm and stayed to the calm side. We cuddled and I slept well this night - and I couldn't sleep through more than one week before (means really not sleep).

I am somehow puzzled about all this. One message about karezza - no need for PMO - my wife open for intimacy and asking for it - my decision to get the lead of our sex life - my ability to sleep through. I think there was something ready inside me, just waiting for the right moment. And possibly some sending of messages to my wife.

BTW, I had started to write a small booklet (in German) about the homone matter and karezza, as I have seen many broken relationships around and needed to help or to give some hints. My wife didn't know about this.

Sounds like

The Giant Hand is encouraging you.

It's not easy for either gender to make this switch. That part of our brain that evolved to seek short-term arousal...at any price...is very hard to ignore. And it gets even more demanding today with porn and "women need orgasms" advice abounding.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Need

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why desiring sex should seem 'needy' in a way that desiring "some (frequent) form of connecting, relaxing and touching" doesn't.

Isn't this just another, less visceral, possibly more harmonious form of need?

Either way, I don't think making time to spend together is something you can rely on to happen spontaneously, any more than in other areas of married life. Most couples eat together, but if time is not put to one side, regularly and routinely, for planning, preparation and enjoyment, meals would be chaotic and haphazard, with a knock on effect on our lives in general.

That isn't to say spontaneity can't occur 'by appointment'. In fact, doing the Exchanges is a great example of encouraging spontaneity by setting firm boundaries ahead of time within which the unknown can occur.

I understood very well when I

I understood very well when I red about the neediness. I had this after getting rid of PMO. I was longing to have a deep intimacy with my wife, giving her caressing etc. But she was not responding, or just receiving, Telling me of being tired or not knowing what to do. Even when we tried to schedule that, she first agreed, but when it came to the date, she was delaying or forgetting or something like that.

I seem as I have the duty to stick to that topic, or to kindle the fire. Sometimes I grew tired doing this, but then our relationship went worse. I think it is not really a sexual issue, but a personal habit. If someone knows about the Eneagramm ( http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneagram.html#intro ), she is No. 9, the lazy pacific island inhabitant... Yesterday I said her that other women complain a lot about missing tenderness and intimacy. And she replied that she cannot complain, and that I do a lot.

*chuckle*

Mate-managing is always a challenge. Just do your best to encourage her when she moves in a good direction, and realize she'll be even more apathetic than usual during the two weeks after a climax (so don't judge her or the relationship then).

Human feelings around sexual invitations are delicate

I think some forum of scheduling (which stays a bit flexible) is very helpful. Every couple has to work this out for themselves though.

We generally snuggle, with some sensual touch, every morning. And if it has been more than a couple of days since intercourse, one of us will playfully say something about wanting to have sex (such as something inane like, "You're cute. I'd like to bone you.")...thus planting a seed for later. Not every seed sprouts, but usually the other one will try to accommodate the request that day or the next.

Morning, and usually evening, snuggles are always daily events, however. I think they're the glue. The sex is both glue and icing.

I'm glad your lady came through with the goods and clarified what had been going on.