Karezza Mistakes

Submitted by skeptic on
Printer-friendly version

The last time I tried Karezza with my wife was last summer over the period if a few weeks. About 16 days in on one stretch, I unintentionally went over "the point of no return". I was basically still when this started to happen. What should I do at this point? Stay still? Withdraw? Thrust? We never quite got back on the horse after that. We may try again soon. I am on Day 15, no O. I don't want it to happen again, but it may.

Topic:

Comments

I suppose that question was a bit mechanical

My climax seems to last a long time if I haven't in a long time, plus it tapers off slowly. Is there a clear line between "Karezza" and "hot" sex? Should you just run with hot sex at that point, or just be still? I am talking from the "point of no return" to completion? Is the typical gratification from thrusting undesirable?

Usually,

orgasms that "just happen" cause less fall out than those you "go for." Prolly has something to do with dopamine.

What really matters is your experience. Try different things.

Might not be asking question right.

Thanks. I am not asking about "going for it". I am asking what to do when it "happens". A man hits the point of climax where he cannot turn back. Do you try to minimize physician pleasure (and dopamine?) by letting it happen and stopping. Or do you try to physically enjoy it as much as possible?

nah

at that point, have fun with your ejaculation and orgasm!

Why not?

Then you can try again to avoid it next time.

But enjoy it!

Maybe you are right

Have you tried it each way? One time my wife was on top of me and just stopped as I was climaxing and sat down so I could not thrust. One the one hand, I didn't exactly want it at that exact moment but I think it dulled the physical rush and let down. I think we probably connected in my frustration although that doesn't sound very Karezza-ey. It was a little planned to see what would happen and she had to be on tune with me to stop at just the right time. We then tried orgasm free sex after that for a while. Then we had the 16 day innocent later on where I didn't want to come but enjoyed myself when I did. We then shelve Karezza for a while.

It depends

on how the hangover (if any) shows up in you after both methods.

Darryl used to use the three finger (Daoist) method of stopping ejaculation when he was practicing years ago. He said the fallout was less than climaxing with full force. No one knows why. The Daoists would have said the benefits were due to not losing sperm...but who knows how much ended up in the bladder?

Anyway, he hypothesized that the finger method stopped the orgasm part way through, so the neurochemical blast was a bit less - and the fallout was too.

So find out for yourself. Does a bigger bang mean a bigger after-effect? If so, which do you prefer?

Planning

I have a hard time thinking where fluids go make any biological difference, but I don't think there always has to be a good explanation for what works for a person. If the Daoist thing works for someone, he should do it.

It worked better for me when my wife and I decided ahead of time that it was OK to have an orgasm, but we were going to "minimize" it. There was something about planning it out ahead of time, and her being in tune with me, and reacting to me. I can't say I "enjoyed" it, but it was an intense experience to be still when my instincts said otherwise. I don't know about a hangover, but I think I did bounce back faster, and we experimented more with Karezza after that.

It worked less well when it was unexpected, but maybe it was my reaction. Not knowing what to do. I felt a little deflated. Maybe the planning, and following was the key to the connection.

the "three finger" method

there is a clue here -- it often diminshes the intensity of the ejaculation. Maybe that's why it works to reduce the fallout?

I don't try to stop mine. I enjoy them a lot. If the rest of sex this was wasn't so amazingly pleasurable (and the time in between also) I'd ejaculate all the time. But it is SO good this way without ejaculations at all, or at a bare minimum, that it isn't even tempting for me.

 

I get

I understand what you were saying. I don't buy some people (not you) claiming of matters whether sperm goes.

Don't you think their could be some psychological or behavioral components that are not totally neuro chemical.

Well,

evidently there are no psychological or behavioral components that don't have a neurochemical component. But actually, I'm of the view that there may also be energetic changes that are still too subtle to be measured.

I guess I emphasize the role of neurochemicals because they are the closest "language" we have for understanding the inter-relationship of body and mind. I doubt they will be the final language, however.

Surprise orgasms

These have happened to us before and my beloved's eyes always go very wide because they are truly "out of the blue" and he will say he was at about a 6 on the 1-10 scale and then bam, one will happen out of nowhere.

We just succumb to the beautiful moment and let it happen and then it seems like we stay stuck together for a very long time afterward~~our bodies kind of suck each other in and we cling.

As far as a hangover, I've not noticed any change in him as far as his feelings toward me and those type orgasms don't seem to keep him from wanting to connect again right away~~so for us, it's all good.

there are no mistakes, are there?

it's all an experience. The last ejaculation I had wasn't something I would have wanted but I enjoyed it a lot. Last year I had maybe two "accidents" and this year so far a few, but all have been tremendously pleasurable and educational. 

The best way to overcome the hangover if there is one is lots of cuddling and bonding stuff. That seems to make it much easier and smoother. I am continually aware of the feelings for my partner and how those feelings change during the day or day to day. They don't stay the same at all times, and why should they? 

And I've discovered that it doesn't take ejaculation for those feelings to diminish at times. Sexual stimulation especially edgy play repeated over a few days can have the same result. But long sessions of intercourse don't seem to cause the feelings to diminish if there isn't an ejaculation although I think if I play to close to the edge even if I'm inside her, and do that too many times in a row, that may have the same result of diminishing my feelings for her for a bit.

Complex factors

I think there is a lot of complex factors at work, and one factor will affect another. But for example, the need to feel disciplined given other factors in my life is one motivation. There is a neurochemical component, but I don't think that is as simple as just brain chemistry. How about individual values, tastes, preferences and orientations? I think some people are really not wired for Karezza. Some people may not want monogamy. Some people think sexual energy is like am itch that has to be scratched. It would be easy to rationalize my own sexual tastes as "better" but we all have our own unique experiences as well.

My life feels chaotic and has for a long time. That is one reason an orgasm fast seems desirable. Harnessing an impulse many people think cannot be harnessed. My wife's support makes me feel closer to her even if we don't have alone time right now. So an understanding of each other is very important even when the physical component is not ideal. Just some thoughts I have. It seems more complex than just manipulating neurochemistry.

The point of the information we share

on neurochemistry isn't to reduce everything to it, but rather to teach people that, for many, how they choose to use their sexual energy has a surprisingly powerful effect on their perception. That's important information, which I hope people will use to make their own experiments.

In other words, the "it's all good" advice in the mainstream is incomplete - and more so for some than others. But I strongly believe people need to work things out for themselves.

I am not even sure what the mainstream is

Sexual research is still in its infancy. I think there is a difference between "mainstream advice" and the "mainstream media". Most anything you find on any subject is poor, LCD, dumbed down advice in the mainstream media. I think there may be more commentators out there than what first appears who advise trying to trying to make sex "less goal oriented" "less penetration oriented" and that too much masturbation is not a good thing. Stuff you see on TV shows or CNN or most films can be pretty lame or unrealistic, but I would guess that knowledgable sex therapists are more willing than not to suggest trying many of the things you suggest.

I don't mean to disagree with you on much. I just think there it is very complex. Sometimes forgoing orgasms seems to work for us and sometimes it doesn't. I'd like to understand it better.

Day 18 without an orgasm and my wife is giving me an 8/10 on mental health improvement. Why is that? I can tell you that I am someone who does not try to avoid dopamine!

What do you mean by

Mental health improvement? Can you please be more specific? What feedback is she giving you?

I'm still experimenting with all this. Had sex the other day for the first time in 5 months, and went ahead and ejaculated. I was very excited and thought it might be difficult to refrain the first time in a while.

And for couple days after, I was really zonked out. Tired, cranky, couldn't focus. Blood sugar issues? Dopamine from ejaculation? I don't know, but sometimes being sensitive is a bitch.

Best.

Getting out of rut---full Karezza today

It has been a long cold winter and early spring. We both have stressful jobs and very challenging family responsibilities. To top it off, we all had flu in March. That left me feeling flat and restless. I often use MB as an axiety relief aid, even when I don't really enjoy it---to break from the worrying---but the be benefits are short lived.

It is not a cure all, but my wife feels like we are and I am in mess of a rut. We are enjoying some things better even if everything that bothers us is not solved. She also things I am more empathetic and in tune with her needs. Personally, I feel like I can be too impulsive and it kind of gives me a project to focus on and slow down.

We had intercourse today for the first time in several weeks. We had it for about a half hour. We were arroused the whole time and could have gone longer. I haven't had an orgasm in almos 3 weeks so I am not sure what switch was flipped that I came no where near climaxing. This was so even though I was more assertive and we tried several positions. I don't think we would have tried so many positions---some we haven't done in years---if I was overheated and came. I think I came very very quickly the last time and that is wha I wanted that time.

It hasn't fixed everything. I have gotten crabby at times. Realistically that will happen some times. But I don't feels as flat, restless, anxious and burned out. And my wife thinks I am listening better so it is all good for now.

Honestly, we have kids distracting us, but we were able to lock the door for an hour and I do not know how many years its been since doing that on a Sunday morning. They are a little older and went downstairs to play and we/she didn't get distracted. It won't always work like that but it has been a very good morning.

Also, she came early on and was very relaxed after that. It was long before intercourse. I did not come. The smallest temptation went away when she reminded me how much time and effort we spent getting to this point. We have to do what works for us.

very nice for you

This time we spend with our partner this way feeds us in a way that I can't really put into words. It is food we really, really need. As I've moved forward in this I've found it more and more important. I think you will find this easier and easier and more and more satisfying in the deepest way. 

Now keep it going. This is so healing for us somehow. I find we are both much better people and life flows for us better, both as a partnership and individually. 

The longer you go doing things this way, the more sensitivity you'll gain and the more pleasure and depth. That's why I don't prefer ejaculating. It is so amazing this way, so pleasurable, so deep, so profound.

And as I said to my wife this morning afterwards, I want her just as much when we're "done". What a fantastic feeling that is. It's not a painful horniness, but a powerful pleasure I would compare in some ways to being a guy and waking up to a big ol' erection. There is something pleasurable about that even if you just sit with it. That's how I feel all the time (but thankfully not erect all the time, lol).

 

Stages

When I start, I actually like the first several day of being easily turned on. I don't think that is for everyone but it is exciting for me. I haven't gone longer than 2 weeks with no O for some time. What I like now, is that I am calming down a bit---I can't be horny all the time, right? But I start feeling more responsive to my wife.

Skeptic

I know this thread has moved in a few directions but I would like to address where you started from and share my experience. About what to do once you slip over the edge into a orgasm and impending ejaculation. Personally, and this is just me, I have no interest in orgasm, period. Its just a short lived sensation. So when, on rare occasion, I have that "oops" feeling as I unintentionally slide over the edge, I prefer simply to be still and or squeeze the PC muscle or use the finger technique, depending on my mood. Even as the orgasm begins with the resulting ejaculation, being quiet and still reduces the full blown effects afterwards. I can have a full on "loud" orgasm, spasms, pulsing and all that , or I can have a quiet controlled orgasm keeping it more internal.

What I like most as a man, in terms of a relationship, is being present, available and, you could say "erect" for and with my partner. A kind of "readiness" to move and dance with the feminine. When I orgasm this dynamic "readiness" goes away and I go into, what I call, "masculine hibernation" where I am unavailable and somewhat disinterested to participate with the feminine. Not totally but definitely diminished. This lasts for a period of time, usually a day or two and then I come back "online", although it usually takes a few more days to be fully in my masculine. I much prefer staying in the "karezza" place.