About getting and giving and different ideas of sex

Submitted by strawberry field on
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I remember the first times of sexual encounters with men - I always forced myself to go "forwards" because I didn´t want to be seen as prude or something like that. I was unexperienced but acted like I was experienced. I was shy and restrained but went straight on...though I wanted to do it slowly or I even didn´t want to do it at all. I must had seen too many movies where those scenes are always passionate and last only for a minute. I would have liked shy kisses and holding hands but I never had that in my days of puberty. I got my first kiss at the age of 17 and the boys must have thought I wasn´t at the beginning of my experiences. I am not sure if they would have been more like gentlemen if my experiences had been starting earlier...

It´s overwhelming how much influence the idea of sex in the modern (western) world has on our thoughts and actions. Being conservative or not even conservative but having some morality and rules makes you "uncool" and inhibited. It´s all about being "free" (which means selfish), easy (which means reckless), flexible (which means disoriented), autonomous (which means lonely) and active (which means desperate).
I think having rules makes you free, free to decide - only then you have a choice between something you think is good and something you think is bad. Otherwise you will decide randomly, influenced by your mood or by the smile of a stranger.

It must be hard to protect children from too early sexual encounters these days. My sister, a 12 year old girl, begins to wear bras though she has no real breasts yet because "everyone" at her class does and she would be an outsider if she didn´t. She bought a short dress which is much too sexy for girls her age...I can see so clearly that this western "idea of sex" forces her into a sexual being before she is one. This is not just the beginning of puberty, it´s much more - she tries to match with the societal picture of a young woman, which is still degrading - though we´ve had emancipation. The same with men - societal pictures degrade them to sexual beings (animate them to use porn and expect a never-ending sexual desire) and both of them, women and men try to "get" a partner that is "worth" enough...what is "worth enough" is of course decided by those societal or lets say capitalistic pictures.

Those thoughts are nothing new in this forum but I wanted to describe it my way. I associated those things when I read about "tantric sources" and thought about their "counterpart". http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/sources/tantra_buddhist

Especially this part impressed me:

[quote/]So many individuals, children, couples and families have been wounded by sexual misconduct. Practicing this training is to prevent ourselves and others form being wounded. Our stability and the stability of our families and society depend on it. To practice the Fourteenth Mindfulness Training is to heal ourselves and our society. When we are determined in this effort, the energy that is formed helps us transform into a bodhisattva. This is mindful living. In Buddhism, we speak of the oneness of body and spirit. What happens to the body also happens to the spirit. The sanity of the body is the sanity of the spirit; the violation of the body is the violation of the spirit. The union of two bodies can only be positive when there is also understanding and communion on the level of the spirit.

Sexual communion should be a ritual performed in mindfulness with great respect, care, and love. True love contains care and respect. It is deep, beautiful, and whole. In my tradition, husband and wife are expected to respect each other as guests, and when they practice this kind of respect, their love and happiness will continue for a long time. In sexual relationships, respect is one of the most important elements.[/quote]

Do you think if I show respect to my partner and give him love selflessly it will come back to me? Maybe he isn´t able to see what I give, the way I give it and what´s behind that...he still seems to be selfish. Maybe it´s my fault and I shouldn´t expect him to be this gentleman I am dreaming of...

I have always been the one who adored him and his body but I would like it the other way around - I would like him to serve me selflessly as it is described when talked about "good lovers"....but adoration of women is just another picture...
This is the point I was searching for - I am now aware that he doesn´t adore me when we have sex (or I feel like) and I want to be adored, appreciated and being loved selflessly...to say it directly: How do I get that? I-m so happy

Topic:

Comments

Yes, I had the same idea

but I don´t know how to present it yet. In the past few weeks (or maybe longer?) there was no place for serious topics - he was nearly always in a foolish mood...OR he was annoyed. I don´t know what he is going through but for me it seems to be something reluctant, he seems to avoid seriousness and a moderate level of communication. If I think about it in a deeper way I come to the conclusion that he had always trouble in opening and giving himself freely at a certain point...but he was good in hiding it.
I think buddhist lectures could be helpful for him as they often have a soft style of telling (and give him the opportunity to open up and listen).

I hope this makes sense, sometimes I construct things because they make sense in a way but still are not true. I-m so happy

The Holy and the whore

[quote/]Knights would pledge themselves to ladies with whom they would (in theory at least) never have procreative sex. Often they chose unavailable lovers, i.e., married women. By sublimating their unrequited passions, knights gained the energy for various spiritual and physical quests.[/quote]
http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/courtly_love_chivalry_cortezia_cathars_...

I could imagine this is the reason why my man liked to adore other (often unavailable) women he didn´t have sex with - on a philosophical, spiritual, emotional level. And why I felt disadvantaged being his mate and why I instinctively made the connection to sex and felt degraded by being his sex-mate. He didn´t adore me because I had sex with him - sounds paradox in modern ears but makes sense when you think of the adoration of holy Mary and why she was described as a virgin. When you think of the Madonna - Complex it makes even more sense: A man cannot sleep with a woman he adores, for him there is the holy and the whore, he sleeps with the whore and adores the Holy. She cannot be one person.

This instinctive connection between sex and degradation women make could explain why they stop being the "available". They refuse to give their "holy" part and as it is described in "Sacrileg" (I think) their "Holy Grail" because they don´t want it soiled. They don´t want to be dishonored, they want to protect their sacred part of being, they protect their "divinity". Sex without adoration, respect and mindfulness is degrading...sometimes you can see that when you become an observer in the middle of the act and suddenly the act seems ridiculous. I guess this doesn´t happen when you do karezza.

Maybe this is even the reason why every relationship-guide says a woman should be unavailable from time to time. If a woman gives herself too fast and too often she becomes an "object" which the man can take whenever he´s in the mood. Of course being unavailable isn´t necessary if both partners respect each other and don´t use each other, if both partners stay divine and gracefully. We have to stop degrading people to objects...well, there is not much divinity, respect and awareness of values left in today´s society. I had never been a fan of God or Christianity but by the time I began to realize the importance of the divine, the sacred...for obvious reasons.

Edit: I think, my boyfriend realizes that a woman still expects a man to be a knight and gentleman and that he has to show his will to be obedient. I think this obedience means respect and is also good for birth-control because if a man fertilized every woman every time he wanted the world would be even more overpopulated.
I can see this obedience isn´t meant as harmful to the man but my boyfriend behaves like it was meant as a degradation. Whenever the subject comes to women he makes his point very clear: women behave like spoiled children, they expect irrational things men should do, they are emotional and irrational, they think they are privileged and little princesses...and it´s unfair that men are seen as assholes while women are treated like queens though they are emotional and scheming and so on...

Well, he is right in a way...there are many of those women he describes. He feels degraded as a man and personally offended by the "emancipation". He doesn´t see his own benefits in being a gentleman and adoring a woman (me^^)...adoring a woman means having values, acting selflessly and honoring someone...the main thing beneficial for him is that one feels good when acting selflessly, having values and having a woman that appreciates what he does. He can´t see women can be very nice when treated with respect even if they are emotional from time to time...well, I think it´s the other way around and a woman is emotional when NOT treated with respect.

Lots of deep thinking there, strawberry

I think you're right that the purpose of karezza is to make a different kind of perception possible between lovers. I remember that years ago a Catholic friend told me that when he tried making love without ejaculation he was amazed. There were no feelings afterward of what he had come to think of as "guilt." (Which, when projected onto a lover would make her an unholy object, if you think about it.)

I wonder if it's really "guilt" or simply that neurochemical letdown than can follow climax. But either way, the perception shift is the problem.

The thinking of your boyfriend makes me sad. There's no logical discussion that can lead anywhere good on that subject, in my view. But that kind of undercurrent of resentment can just evaporate if partners learn to manage their sexual energy consistently. It seems like magic...but it's not. It's neurochemistry. Sometime, get him to do three weeks of daily affection/intercourse without orgasm and see what you both notice...and what you both notice when you go back to conventional sex. You're not being a "spoiled princess," you're being a "bedroom scientist." Smile

Until then, don't waste your time bickering (and making his projections onto you seem justified to him). He would have to experience the perception shift for himself before he would see things differently.

"Sometime" will probably not be in the near future

because he doesn´t want to stop orgasming for 3 weeks and he didn´t get the idea right yet. I tried to explain why one should try out such an experiment and said that every orgasm is something like shooting heroin and that it needs two weeks to rebalance and he said he was no addict and that he had stayed without orgasm for two weeks sometimes and that there would be no need to try out because he already had made this experience...well, he is no "addict" and he doesn´t watch porn (which would make him an addict), that is right. But well, he made the wrong connection and I wasn´t in the mood to correct him.

Whatever, he doesn´t want to try out and I am not going to force him.
Btw, he had stopped touching himself when I am near by and I like it but I kind of forced him to. One night he was very touchy and made a grab at me all through the night while I was sleeping. Sometimes I woke up of course. The next morning I asked him if he had touched me throughout night and he said: yes, as I am not allowed to touch myself when you are here. He seemed a bit offended.
This comment was a bit mean because he wanted me to feel guilty but well...I don´t want to fight and even though he is "forced" to stop masturbating or playing with his penis when I am with him I am glad he stopped that. Sometimes children have to learn it that way. I-m so happy
I mean, I don´t want to harm him but really, it´s just so annoying...and I just said that over and over again, because it´s true for me and that must have been the reason he stopped.

I am not going to waste my time bickering anymore about those subjects, really. I realized that he is stubborn by "nature" (his ex-girlfriend said the same thing about him) and that I can only be very patient, warm and nice to open him up. I realized that I had made a big progress in opening him up since I started all those karezza-things but sometimes he still is like a stone.

Thanks for listening to all this stuff.^^

I understand

why you are making the choice you are, but the experience isn't just "stopping orgasm for two weeks." It's daily affection and/or gentle non-goal driven intercourse for three weeks. That's quite different.

Sounds like you're working out some things between you. I just hope the resentment isn't boiling under the surface.

A sex counselor I know said porn gives men a sense of entitlement, due to its unrealistic scenarios. I think men are also being taught today that anytime they feel horny they must ejaculate or face dire consequences (which are never quite spelled out). This almost guarantees resentment when accommodating a partner.

Moreover, this attitude makes it seems like the "solution" (satisfaction) lies in number of orgasms or sessions of intercourse. This is very unfortunate thinking, especially when men are often "overheated" and suffering from cravings to some degree, instead of just normal libido. It puts the couple on a treadmill, where no matter how much conventional sex the other partner puts out, it never feels like enough. It is just "feeding the dragon," and makes the fire hotter and less quenchable. The ironic thing is that many men find their libido actually settles in to a nice, much more comfortable, warm readiness (instead of aching longing) when they ejaculate less frequently. This is counter-intuitive, but I hear it often. Sometimes there's a bit of extra neediness at first, but then they find their balance and become delicious "glowing furnaces" who do a great job of keeping the spark in the the relationship without spiraling into constant dissatisfaction and resentment.

The 3-week experiment I mentioned is a way for men (or any high-libido partner) to see that they can feel very satisfied, even more deeply satisfied, without getting onto that endless spiral of needing more and always feeling resentment.

People don't have to be addicts to benefit from this approach. But I realize you can't move things forward for now.

 

Sorry, I shortened the subject too much

I am aware it´s not all about not orgasming but I think this is the main impression he got (or at least the most intensive thought when thinking about the subject = fear). So his point of view could have taken place in my words.

[quote/]The ironic thing is that many men find their libido actually settles in to a nice, much more comfortable, warm readiness (instead of aching longing) when they ejaculate less frequently. This is counter-intuitive, but I hear it often. Sometimes there's a bit of extra neediness at first, but then they find their balance and become delicious "glowing furnaces" who do a great job of keeping the spark in the the relationship without spiraling into constant dissatisfaction and resentment.[/quote]

This is very interesting and fits to my experiences. The warmness describes it very well. When I was in this mood sex was welcome but not needed, which is very relaxing. What doesn´t seem to fit well is that it´s common in this community to say there is absolutely no problem when one partner is orgasming while the other isn´t. When my partner is overheated my warmness is run down by his heat. My meditative state of mind is run down by his hunger as well. I don´t know, maybe I suck at dissociating myself from other´s moods and the other members are able to do that.

Though it´s not really possible to move things forward for now I like discussing or sharing experiences with the community very much. Smile

I always

found both partners needed to be on board for best results. That said, some men here have learned to cope with female partners who continue to orgasm while the men don't. That's their experience. And there's support for it in some of the ancient texts about this practice.

I don't remember hearing of any good outcomes where it was the other way around (where the man continued to ejaculate while the woman refrained from orgasm), but maybe someone else can jump in.

Hm...

Yes, right? It´s the wrong way round. There is something wrong with the female part in this relationship (maybe both sexes), but I am on my way to figure it out...I got the wrong role somehow.

When I read about the men of this community who enjoy doing what you described I get envious. One time my man was close to this kind of experience but he didn´t get the last piece of the puzzle. We had made an experiment (that HE suggested): He slept with me without ejaculating for a couple of days. He still sometimes talks about it, being astonished and fascinated by the results, that I seemed to love it and had many orgasms in those days, more than usual. But he doesn´t repeat it, I don´t know why...he really was impressed.

Yeah well...I have to find the female part of my personality, I have this intuition that this would be very helpful. There had been times in this community where I was on that way and it felt right, so I am trying to come back to this path. This is no feminism thing...I am convinced it´s essential to be connected to the own femininity or maleness...whatever that means.

My 2 cents, if I may

This may get rambly. I wanted to tell this story for a long time but couldn't find the words.

tl;dr: Being with a woman because you want sex is like having a Ferrari because you want a cigarette lighter.

I was abstinent for 3 weeks and met a girl. There was no possibility for a relationship but I was enjoying her presence. We talked for hours. No flirting, no touching, lots of eye contact. She took me places I have never imagined existed. I became all mellow, leaning back in the chair, hands crossed on my lap as if I was hugging something precious. My breath was smooth like that of a baby. I had an idiotic grin on my face which I couldn't hold back.

I was shamelessly staring at her. I noticed that she had a few wrinkles starting to form around the corners of her eyes. When she smiled her teeth looked a bit crowded. Her hair was kind of unkempt. She had small breasts. Her hands looked funny. And yet she was so beautiful. In fact, she was not beautiful, she was beauty itself. There was no boundary to it, no degree, no room for comparison. I thought: when she looks in the mirror, does she see what I see? Maybe if I look into her eyes long enough, she's going to see herself as I see her.

She talked about anything and everything. Her 12 year relationship with her boyfriend, their fights, their vacations. Her face would change from happy to sad to angry to meditative. It was like watching a flower bloom. She asked me questions. My answers were short, boring and non committal. I didn't want to think. Thinking would take me away from this moment. My only wish was: let's stay here, this moment is so beautiful.

My mind was yelling at me that she is just a woman but I knew she was really a goddess gracing me with her presence. I was not afraid any more. Of anything. That's when I saw the Ferrari. At one point, for no particular reason, we started laughing. Not the social laugh where you look at the other person so you can synchronize when to stop. Laughing like little children. I was leaning over my chair on one side, she was leaning over the table on the other side and we were laughing our asses off.

She asked what kind of music I like. I said I like all kinds of music. She said music is very important for her. She could never go out with someone who listens to Britney Spears, for example. The first instinct was to say: "Me neither". But I noticed something strange. Even though she had made a statement, she was now waiting. As if for a verdict. As if she was not saying: "I would never go out with someone who listens to Britney Spears" but instead asking: "Would you ever go out with someone like that?". Or maybe "would you ever go out with someone like me?". So I looked at her and said: "I guess that's where the compromise part comes in" (she had talked about compromise in relationships). What I really wanted to say could not be expressed. How could a pathetic "I love you" do any justice to what I was feeling?

She had to leave the next day. We had an awkward half hug, half hand shake, half kiss on the cheek goodbye. I put my left hand around her shoulder for the hug. Her body gave in as if it was made of something immaterial. I was afraid if I squeeze harder she will disappear like a cloud of smoke. There was so much softness in that touch. Up to that point, my idea of life was like a pile of concepts and rules. I was sitting on a raft floating in the ocean with this pile of junk next to me. I thought the pile of junk was all that there was in life. Suddenly, when she touched me I saw the ocean. I felt like I've been an idiot all my life. My strength and my ideas were no match for that ocean of softness.

If sex would've been available or expected, I would've been a much poorer man today. She taught me that:

1. Beauty is an emotion. If I sit here, you sit there and that emotion happens, it does not matter how our bodies look or how our characters are.

2. There are not two types of love: romantic love versus love for parents or siblings. There is just love. When you get there through sex it becomes contaminated by neediness. When you get there through bonding it's just love.

Until your SO sees the Ferrari, he will be very defensive about any threat to the cigarette lighter :)

As for touching someone while they are asleep, I did that in the past and only later realized that it is rape. Regardless if the other person is a stranger, a gf or a wife, it's still rape.

End of rambling. It's good to get this off my chest. Thank you people for inspiring me. I'm listening to Britney Spears.

Sounds a bit pathetic to me

Sounds like how my boyfriend would describe a meeting with one of his non-sexual "friends"(he doesn´t have one of them right now). Would you describe your girlfriend the same? A person you meet probably nearly every day? Does she have the same magic, the same beauty of a rare moment with a strange woman? Again: the Holy and the whore. Most stories tell about the strange woman being the whore but not many tell about that a wife or girlfriend feels like the whore when the strange woman is adored like a Holy...

It all sounds very good, really, and you seem to understand how beautiful it can be to adore a woman - for both sides - but you sound a bit too promising at some points as well...sorry.
I appreciate poetic descriptions of special moments and I enjoyed reading...and of course your ideals of how to treat a woman are something every woman would wish for. But when I read that it feels like you are talking about one of those mysterious, heavenly girls they show in the movies - though you try to emphasize the ordinary part of that girl...the way you describe her is common in stories to make a beauty out of the ordinary...it just sounds like you could use story-telling tools very well. The way you talk about that girl makes me feel like I feel when watching Disney-Movies: I will never be like that! I will never be a princess or a Ferrari! Damn!^^

I am really sorry if this is too harsh! I don´t want to tell something nice when there isn´t something nice in me...^^

The good thing is: Your story touched me so deeply that some uncomfortable feelings came to the surface I didn´t knew about. I mean, this is good because I could face them, be sad and angry about them and come to terms with them. What everybody else conceived as simply beautiful I conceived as hurting (my boyfriend described OTHER girls like you did). Of course only because I mixed it up with my own story. It´s great anyway that you had such an experience, I don´t want to denigrate that.

End of rambling. You´re good at words.

I think he's making a very different point

Perception is in the eye of the beholder. It wasn't the woman who was magical, but rather his perception of her. If we want to see each other as adorable, with magical moments, we have to use our sexual energy so that it doesn't create subconscious waves of lack, anxiety and neediness, which we then cannot help projecting onto our partners.

In other words, I don't buy the "holy and whore" explanation, although I see how it could easily have arisen given the natural changes in perception that follow (too much) orgasm.

Those came from the heart

Not good with words in general. I read this thread, you talking about the holy and adoring a woman and I had to write this story. I understand how pathetic it sounded. Highly emotional experiences always burst forth into poetical form. You cannot describe them logically and at the same time you cannot contain them. So they end up like a sort of poetical delirium.

[quote]
Would you describe your girlfriend the same? A person you meet probably nearly every day? Does she have the same magic, the same beauty of a rare moment with a strange woman?
[/quote]

I most definitely would describe a girlfriend that way. I think this experience was particularly intense because there was no sexuality involved. We've all been in love, the problem is how to sustain it. I was floating on a cloud for 3 days after that experience, then I fell. If she would be there all the time, I don't know if it could be sustained. Maybe karezza will do it, I've never tried that with any of my exes. What I did with this girl (by accident) was hardcore karezza - mostly eye contact :)

[quote]
Again: the Holy and the whore. Most stories tell about the strange woman being the whore but not many tell about that a wife or girlfriend feels like the whore when the strange woman is adored like a Holy...
[/quote]

I'm sorry that your boyfriend made you feel like that. I'm sure he didn't mean to. We men are very dense :). First rule: don't talk about other women. As for this woman, we talked for more than 12 hours (in two sessions). She is not a stranger any more.

[quote]
I will never be like that! I will never be a princess or a Ferrari! Damn!
[/quote]

That's exactly what I was thinking when looking at the girl: when she looks in the mirror does she see what I see? Probably not. That was the paradox. That's when I realized that beauty is an emotion. It has nothing to do with looks or character. I don't know how it happens. Just the presence of the other person and a bunch of oxytocin :)

I love a quote from a movie called "The Cooler". Girlfriend looks in the mirror and says: "look at this mess (she had been beaten up by some guys)". Boyfriend says: "You look in the mirror, you don't like what you see? Look in my eyes, I am the only mirror you're ever gonna need." That was spot on with my experience. Here's the scene:

http://youtu.be/pI0ATkUpOyw?t=1m40s

Thank you for the inspiration to write that story. Please don't think you can never be like that. It's not true. All women are like that - it's only a matter of him seeing it. No matter how much nonsense a woman carries, if you look at her long enough and listen long enough she will get closer and closer to the present moment. When she is truly there with you she is a goddess. There I go again, I'll shut up now :)

I don´t know what to write into this text box ;-)

[quote=goosewort]Highly emotional experiences always burst forth into poetical form. You cannot describe them logically and at the same time you cannot contain them. So they end up like a sort of poetical delirium.
[/quote]

You´re absolutely right, I didn´t see that aspect. Thanks.

[quote/]I'm sorry that your boyfriend made you feel like that. I'm sure he didn't mean to. We men are very dense :).[/quote]

No, I was dense. I had a wrong self-image and created situations which confirmed my bad self-image. I must have been brainwashed to think behaving like a whore would make me sexy and irresistible. I mean...not really like a whore but, you know, all this stuff like being demanding, seducing him, making him horny, making sex more and more thrilling (in general: heating things up)...
This is what media tells us to be desirable, this is what a "good" woman should be. It created a self-image that made it hard for guys to adore me...to treat me like a priestess or however you wanna name it. I mean, there were guys who adored me but it irritated me because I didn´t know what kind of adoration it was...did they like the priestess or the whore (sorry to use those pictures so often, it´s not easy to find different descriptions in a foreign language)?

Today I told my boyfriend about my feelings in an awful situation we were in. That I felt like a whore while another girl was treated like a queen and that it hurt me. It felt good to tell him because I was able to express my feelings without fear. It´s good to tell things directly...being straight means I do respect my own feelings and thoughts and there is no need to hide things.

[quote]
Thank you for the inspiration to write that story. Please don't think you can never be like that. It's not true. All women are like that - it's only a matter of him seeing it. No matter how much nonsense a woman carries, if you look at her long enough and listen long enough she will get closer and closer to the present moment. When she is truly there with you she is a goddess. There I go again, I'll shut up now :)
[/quote]

You´re welcome. I-m so happy
Inspiration is a sign of a muse.^^

So you think being present shows the goddess in a woman? I agree...charismatic people always seem very present.

Please don´t shut up, I like your thoughts. I-m so happy
(They´re inspiring for me as well.)

A musing

I don't know what shows the goddess. I think abstinence and meditation increase receptivity. Receptivity plus a lot of oxytocin make the man pay attention to the woman. When that happens, she slowly starts spending more and more time in the now. Maybe that's when the magic happens.

The deeper two people connect, the fewer things are indecent for them. When the woman becomes goddess, the connection is absolute. Nothing is indecent any more. The bodies become merely instruments for expressing love. On a violin there is no indecent chord. Everything is fair as long as music is produced. When sex originates from love rather than lust or desire to possess, the kinkiest form of sex becomes as holy as prayer. When sex becomes as innocent as holding hands, the woman can never lose her virginity. Nor can she be a whore. So priestess or whore is not important. The connection is important.

Strawberry,

Even if your guy is not ready yet, you'll find this account inspiring. I think the new husband started with your boyfriend's mindset:

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/1mi916/married_nofap_1_year_repor...

__

Married NoFap, 1 year report (a few days early because of finals). (self.NoFap)

submitted

ago by punsaretheworst361 days

I'm so glad that r/nofap exists, and that I found it one year ago. I had been masturbating to internet porn for over thirteen years and married for two years at this time last year. I was never too happy about my need to fap as a single man, but I hated it as a married one. I'm convinced that it affected our relationship, as I could already sense a decrease in intimacy even though we were still newlyweds. Sometimes I would be waiting for my wife to fall asleep or go to the store so I could masturbate, and I'd be irritable with her while she was still around. Any time that I wanted sex and didn't get it I would treat as a blank check to service myself. It's an awful way to treat someone, but it's also a really unhealthy way to approach your own sexual desire. It's an unspoken ultimatum: either you're taking care of this boner or I am. It reduces the intimate, physical aspect of your relationship to the level of an oil change. Whether I take it into the shop or do it in my driveway, the result is the same (I really like to stretch a metaphor for all its worth).

The tipping point came when I was traveling alone for a couple weeks, and--predictably-- masturbating pretty much nightly. I was bored and unhappy and was probably searching for some porn on reddit when I ran into this place and started researching. After watching some videos and (most importantly) reading up on people's experiences, I was fired up and decided to join in. Here's what I've noticed in the last year:

-Things got a lot easier when I told my wife. The first month or so I was on my own, and it was agonizingly hard. I didn't want to tell her until I was confident that I could keep going, because I didn't want to have to tell her about a relapse. But I think opening up to her at the very start would have made it so much easier. She was very supportive, and from time to time would ask me how it was going and express how impressed she was.

-With my wife on board I had a very powerful anti-relapse weapon: I would just imagine the next day after masturbating: waking up knowing that I failed, resetting my badge, admitting it to her. That will get you to close those tabs on your browser pretty quick. You can also try this whether or not you have a SO. Picture yourself in the sober light of the next day, writing your relapse up to post on nofap.

-As far as physical/mental/personality changes: I think that a lot of what people attribute to nofap is really the placebo effect, but I have noticed some things that I can't explain. I'm horny all the time, but not in an unpleasant way anymore. My mind was conditioned to expect release any time it experienced desire, but gradually I've reached the point where I can be (relatively) comfortable with arousal that isn't consummated. It really does give you energy that can be applied to other aspects of your life (like school, currently).

-Sex is more frequent, longer, and better. At first I think my wife made a conscious effort to have more sex with me as a sort of support mechanism (another benefit of telling your partner about nofap), but I also think that we are both more attracted to each other now. There's something in women that responds to being fiercely desired. Instead of the desultory requests for an "oil change" she used to get, she now has a husband with the constant libido of a teenage boy directed only at her, not at "getting off" by whatever means necessary. It's like I've become more masculine and she's become more feminine as well, with the result that we are both increasingly attractive to the other.

-I realize that everything I've written so far has been very positive, but I've also had several near-relapses in the last 3 months. Sometimes I'll run into a picture online, or a scene on a TV show (I've decided not to watch Game of Thrones for this reason) or even just walk past a girl in yoga pants and it's like my blood pressure shoots up about 40 points. Nofap does a lot of things, but it certainly does not make you numb to temptation. I think a lot of single people do nofap precisely for this effect, but it's pretty rough on the monogamous.

Good luck, brothers and sisters.

 

Thanks Marnia

Off topic: One funny thing....I hesitated to show "Game of Thrones" to my boyfriend because I didn´t want to trigger him. But it is sooo f.... good, I had to show him! It´s single pieces are synchronized perfectly.

That's a beautiful story

Thanks for sharing, goosewort.

I wonder why you didn't pursue that woman? Because she was older than you? Because she lived far away? Why should those things matter?

I don't think that touching someone while they are asleep is necessarily rape. It all depends on whether it's consensual. I love to be touched, anytime. Sometimes my wife will come to bed after I'm asleep. Sometimes she will put an arm around me. I wake up for a few seconds, put my hand on her arm, and go back to sleep with a smile on my face. But she really hates being woken up by anything after she gets to sleep.

It's not likely to happen, but I wouldn't even mind if she played with my penis while I was asleep - provided she was willing to do some karezza if I got too aroused and had trouble getting back to sleep.

Thanks CuriousFellow

We live on different sides of the ocean and she is in a long term relationship which she hopes will lead to marriage one day. I wish them happiness.

I think that women are the subtlest form of life on this planet. If God made man first and then woman, she is the better model :). It's like the old computers in the 80s occupied entire buildings yet they were less powerful than today's smartphones. Subtle creatures are difficult to understand by us rugged old models. Even if the woman tries to teach us things it's very likely we won't get it, she'll give up and do things our way just to avoid losing the relationship.

So for the rape thing, I agree with you, I just prefer to be paranoid. To me consent goes beyond things like letting us touch them. Consent should go as far as touching them the way they like it. If she would prefer to be touched differently but we can't figure that out, to me that is almost an injustice. I think we should always let them take initiative and us pay attention!

Anyway, I like your mind-games^^

Comparing a woman to a technical thing (a smartphone! lol) is so artful....^^

[quote=goosewort]Even if the woman tries to teach us things it's very likely we won't get it, she'll give up and do things our way just to avoid losing the relationship. [/quote]

How the hell did you figure that out? Are you a woman?^^
I mean, this is something even many women aren´t aware of...and I am not sure if this strategy is helpful...

[quote/]To me consent goes beyond things like letting us touch them. Consent should go as far as touching them the way they like it. If she would prefer to be touched differently but we can't figure that out, to me that is almost an injustice. I think we should always let them take initiative and us pay attention![/quote]

That sounds soo good.

Haha

The comparison with smartphones was to emphasize that bigger size does not mean better. Men are stronger because bigger, women are smaller because everything about them is more subtle.

[quote]
How the hell did you figure that out? Are you a woman? smiley
I mean, this is something even many women aren´t aware of...and I am not sure if this strategy is helpful...
[/quote]

We all have a feminine and a masculine side. In rare moments I have my intuitions :)

What strategy are you referring to: the woman trying to teach or the man trying to listen?

Neither one thing nor the other

[quote=goosewort]

What strategy are you referring to: the woman trying to teach or the man trying to listen?[/quote]

I meant the strategy that she'll give up and do things "his" (the men´s) way just to avoid losing the relationship.
A woman shouldn´t adept a man´s way of handling things if this way isn´t going hand in hand with her character accidentally.