Does Rock Bottom = ED?

Submitted by SurprisedFiance on
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I have the fiance that is in complete denial that he has a problem. Even though I fully expected it, it did not help matters when his psyciatrist told him yesterday that it is completely normal for a 37-year-old to MO once per day, even when he's having great sex with his lady 5-7 times per week. Does ANYONE seek help BEFORE they reach problems with ED? Or is this the true Rock Bottom? My brave & loving sister is navigating this with me and she expressed it in a way I had not quite heard before: for this type of addict, the addiction itself makes them seek help. Once ED hits, they can no longer satisfy the addiction - can't go to the local dealer and "buy an erection" - so ultimately (once Viagra,etc no longer help) the addiction itself forces the addict to seek help. This is “Rock Bottom”.




My rock bottom wasn't ED. I suffered from ED with my girlfriend, but then i used viagra and it went ok-ish.

My rock bottom was when, after catching me for the zillionth time, she really threatened to leave me, to expose what i was doing to my work, etc etc (she wouldn't have actually done it).

Point i'm trying to make, is, don't put up with his MO... if his psychiatrist says its ok, then the psychiatrist isn't up to date perhaps (because Porn and Sex addictions are pretty new and even sometimes not recognized at all). When i went to a psychiatrist he also said to me that i wasn't addicted, no, i had a compulsive disorder. Well, compulsive disorders, are not (i think?) treatable... but i have stopped masturbating for almost half a year now.

Besides that, your fiance doesn't NEED to do MO. He won't die if he doesn't. And if you, his fiance, aren't happy with him doing that, i would think he should stop it... no matter what his psychiatrist says?

Thank you

for your story and ED opinion. He knows a breakup is inevitable if he doesn't get help - that's why he's going through the steps (yes, the research is too new - making it difficult to find a specialist), however he lies on questionnaires, etc. He wants the diagnosis to be "No Issue", and just move on like there's nothing going on. He even admits that since there's no medical science to back it up, it doesn't really matter what the drs say - he knows in his heart there's no problem. "Says" he's done nothing in 4 weeks with no withdrawal symptoms (we define "nothing" differently!!) so therefore there's no problem. At the end of the day, I know in my heart that he will not give up MO, even for me, and it has been heartbreaking to come to this realization. I asked him yesterday after his psyciatrist appt. - if you've not done it in four weeks and are able to resist the urgers, why then are you trying so desparately to find out how many times a week you can do it without it being a problem? How about you just forget about it? Answer: "because it feels good" . . .

My understanding is that for SOME MO'ing becomes compulsive - and he does have OCD and ADD. He's been on Paxil for years, but realized with all of this that he had only taken 3 months worth over the past year - meaning he had no theraputic amount in his systme. That's why he went to see psyciatrist - for a script refill. The doc told him that his lack of Paxil may have been the reason for all the MO'ing - he was replacing the relaxing effects of Paxil with the relaxing effects of MO. Also, one side effect benefit of anti-depressants is that they reduce compulsive hehavior. My sister had to put her autistic son on one for a period of time when he was in puberty because he would stop, drop em, and do it anywhere - ALL the time! Not good, especially with a young daughter in the house! So the Paxil back in his system might help reduce the urges for many reasons. But the thing is, I feel the problem has been "triggered" one way or the other - and now we have to deal with it. Or not...

And it may come down to the fact that your girlfriend is loved more than I am...I hope she knows how lucky she is!

Rock bottom is different for

Rock bottom is different for everyone. It's perhaps what starts the process of change. Ultimatums may not be the best trigger for this. It's individual and personal.

We don't know that there is a bright line of MO addiction. Even once a week or whatever might have negative outcomes. Drinking isn’t that different. Both are socially acceptable. Do you masturbate/orgasm? How frequently? There are many reasons that men use MO in various frequencies. He's looking for a reason to keep using. He's not interested in your view that he can't MO because you are there. Maybe that will change. Probably not by force. Perhaps step back and let him explain to you why he went to PMO with you and what it all means to him. If you push too hard, he might clam up or not care about walking. Are you underestimating his attachment to this behavior? He’s free to post here if he’s interested.

Examine the sex you’re having. Is it overstimulating one or both of you? Are you bringing a control aspect into that? Maybe he’s unsatisfied in some way or desensitized.

Thanks for taking

the time. Yes, I do not think an ultimatum would work in this case. He claims the opposite, but I am fairly confident that MO would win out over me, just based on his behavior/denial/etc. since this became an issue. Do I orgasm? Not so much - I own the best assistant on the planet - the Eroscillator - but generally only use it if we were having a "quickie" before he left for work that was too quick, leaving me to finish on my own. Under normal circumstances he ALWAYS takes care of my needs multiple times...but yes, on occassion I MO. I guesstimate maybe once every 2 months. So I suppose I really can't relate to his urges or what he's going through.

I would love to have him provide an honest answer to the issue you pose: "Perhaps step back and let him explain to you why he went to PMO with you and what it all means to him". I have asked that in different ways, and to date his best answer is "he doesn't know". He has always said, and continues to reiterate it when we're meeting with the therapist, that he is 100% satisfied sexually and I am the absolute love of his life. I really don't get it. I can tell you that I was a HUGE change for him - his first wife would often go 6 - 8 months without giving him sex.

Do I underestimate his attachment? No, if anything maybe the opposite. I guess that's one thing I'm trying to determine. I have evidence of frequency, he lied for years, wants to continue with the MO - there's no REAL direction out there for us. As you said, everything is so individual. I go one way with it, he goes another. He will NOT go on this site, but thanks for the mention. I would love for him to, and have asked him to just for my benefit, but he won't. He kinda despises it actually - sure he wasn't thrilled when my copy of Cupid's Poison Arrow arrived in the mail this week.

I do not "think" I bring a control aspect into our sex, but I'm not sure how that would be defined. Is it overstimulating? I would say yes, probably compared to most people, yes. We don't hang from the ceilings, but there's lots of variety, intensity, frequency, etc. You might remember from my earlier blog - there have been a couple of threesomes (not something we do anymore or promote), we have our favorite stripper at a vacation spot we go to every 3 - 4 months. Probably overstimulating. Losing the stripper, watching porn together occassionally, and those types of things is a HUGE fear that he has - I believe a big reason why he does NOT want to be classified as an "addict". Same idea of should a person addicted to alcohol hang out at the bar? Should a PMO or MO addict hang out at a strip club? Probably not. . .

I believe he is both desensitized and unsatisfied. . .

I hear a lot of he and not a

I hear a lot of he and not a lot you. Either way, you can only fix you. This could be the mirror problem to the men who are trying to thaw their female partners. He may really not know in a way similar to the female partners that have sex out of obligation and have lost touch with parts of themselves. If you build it, he will come (a pun, I know...don't seek that). What can you do to bring harmony into your relationship? You are 50% and always will be. There are ample ideas here to digest. He will follow. He's almost telling you he's yours to lose and it sounds like you don't want to lose him. Are you willing to fully change yourself to keep him? If not, why should he change for you?

Don't equate

his behavior with degree of love for you. His brain may be skewing his priorities, such that he can't get them right. That doesn't mean you need to stick around. Just don't feel unloved.

BTW, here's one sex therapist who did a pretty good job.

Until he sees symptoms, though, he's gonna cling to the party line. Take good care of yourself and stop obsessing over him and his choices to the extent possible.

Your words

tend to come when I need them most. Thanks, Marnia, for everything you do on here. I hope you are blessed tenfold for helping people that are suffering and struggling to reach some sort of normalcy.

Did I give you a link to the Chaser article?

It'll help you understand how your hot sex together is leading to his need for porn. I just added this bit to it, which Gary sent me from a thread in a Reddit forum:

After lots of effort, I managed to get to 90 days of no porn. My life improved a lot... I broke up with my girlfriend, had sex with 4 girls, found a new girlfriend. I was sociable, confident, etc. For some months I was having LOTS of awesome sex, but she had to go back to her country in January. After she left...well, the porn/fapping cravings came back HARD. I was fapping 2/3 times per day and watching porn (something I hadn't done it in 6 months). It was all downhill from there: Loss of motivation, didn't go out on the weekends, gained a bit of weight, etc. Then I got to have sex with another girl and...let's say it was a bit disappointing. I didn't "work" as well as I used to do without fapping. So now, more determined than ever, I'm back at 5 days of nofap and feeling much better. For me the biggest danger is the 3 days after having sex or fapping. If you can get over that, it's a piece of cake. But the cravings after sex...f*ck that sh*t. I do lots of drugs too, and fapping is definitely harder to stop. So just be careful. Don't relapse. If you feel like fapping just go out and do anything you can to find real sex. Fapping isn't worth it.—Ralf


This was a

great link, and I have, in fact, noticed this with him, as we have not stopped nor really decreased our sexual activity (except when fighting). It leaves me a bit hopeless however - if and when he ever successfully reboots, will the chaser effect still exist? Indefinitely? Is this similar to the recovered alcoholic not having ONE social drink? For those in a relationship, obviously more unavoidable than the beverage.

As far as we know, the sexes

As far as we know, the sexes are equally impacted by the neuroscience including chaser effects. It can be more subtle for women to notice. That includes you even if you haven't noticed anything.

The problem is orgasm and overstimulation, not sex. When sex is more balanced, people report that inadvertent orgasm doesn't set them back too much.

I'm not convinced of that notion that alcoholics can't take one drink. It might be easier not to. When I read social drinking, I see a world full of alcoholics that haven't admitted it to themselves. See if a routine social drinker can live their life the same way and not drink. Many are unable, at least not without experiencing various physical symptoms.