Tortoise's picture
Submitted by Tortoise on
Printer-friendly version

CAUTION.. explicit sexually charging material follows.

I am just sharing my experiences to reinforce some of this in my head.. or body .. or both... and to get some advise.

So I recently have been getting a bit sexually charged .. well a lot sexually charged..because my wife and I .. well primarily me.. are doing some bonding behaviors. I have been giving her non sexual back and foot and neck rubs when we are together two or three times a week. She has invited me for sleepovers kind of randomly two or three nights a week and we just hang out on the bed watching a movie.. I always offer to give her a massage and she loves it.. and I love giving it.. she says she is going to reciprocate because it is only fair.. and she did once for a brief time.. which was awesome :) But I love massaging her and for 30 - 60 min every night I am there ... and for about 20 min in the morning I massage her.

I expect nothing in return as I used to. My massages of her used to be precursor to our sexual encounters where she would never do anything but enjoy her massage and then reluctantly roll over, spread her legs, grab her vibrator and expect me to be erect.. which I usually was with the help of Levitra. In the last two minitues of her massage she would say "get yourself ready" and I would stroke my penis and vigerously.. grabbingly massage her perfect round booty... watch it bounce and jiggle.. That got me going.. Then she would roll over .. I would lube up and she would use her vibrator on her clit as I fucked her with just he first half of my penis.. she would orgasm within a few minutes.. then I was allowed to fully enter her .. I always wanted to fuck her for a long time but she wanted me to orgasm quickly so we could just be done.

This was our sex life for years. The massage took about an hour.. she would just fall asleep after my massage unless she had made an agreement to have sex. which was ever other week usually.. Then the sex took about 15min. I felt deprived and most other days masturbated to the thought of her or porn and ejaculated two to six times a day. Even after we had sex about an hour later I would masturbate and ejaculate.. I lived in a pemanent hangover.. very depressed except for the days when she said she would have sex with me. If I couldn't get it up for her.. which began to fail more and more,, even with ED drugs.. We both got angry.. I knew it would be another week or two before I had another chance.. so all we did was fight when it came to sex.. she would never discuss it. Now she finally will. We have couples counseling today again.. and sex is on the agenda. I am a bit scared.

Why am I mentioning this in such detail? Because I need input on how to proceed now. Hopefully the counseling will do this too.

I am massaging her again but with a different mindset.. My cock does not seem to be paying attention to my mindset.. or I guess it is standing at attention in spite of my mindset. We both are wearing underwear when I rub her and I am just giving her love as I massage her and not vigorously grabbing .. I am thinking about just a warm glow coming from my hands to give to her heart.. and I love this. I am taking no ED drugs obviously and havent for a year and a half or more. But.. I am thankful she is on her tummy and can't see me because most of the time I have a half erection and about a third of the time I have a full erection pitching a tent in my underwear.

I am honestly not trying to go there in my mind but I find her body so attractive it just seems to happen. She is gorgeous. but I am not thinking about that.

It just feels like I could fall back into an obcession with needing to fuck her. I am not allowing myself to go there when I am around her. and when she rolls over and we talk and relax.. My penis relaxes into a chubby .. which I hide from her.

But when I go home to my own bed the next day I randomly feel an overwhelming need to ejaculate. I meditate this away usually. But after no orgasms for months I simply couldn't stop and quickly .. painfully ejaculated a couple days ago with very little effort. Oh my God was it pleasurable for a few seconds... the hangover is immense. Everything is negative .. I recognise it is this hangover.. .. talk about glass half empty syndrome.

Ok so I am a human being and I am not beating myself up about breaking my no orgasm streak. I am just concerned about how to not become sexually charged this way with my wife. I cannot get her panty clad roundness out of my head. I so want to just think about it and orgasm a thousand times. and I could.. and then feel like my life essence was drained out of me.

I should just ice my balls and move on .. that is what I am doing.. again now just because I wrote this detailed account. I am such an idiot sometimes.. so any advise is welcomed. Yes I know I could massage her fully clothed.. but before bed it seems strange.. and she is not going to bed fully clothed or waking up fully clothed.. frankly it wouldnt matter if she were wearing a gunny sack.. I can feel her softeness through anything. and I know what is under there. .. underwear. :/



stimulation can do this

Just FYI: When you get very stimulated, and have an erection for a long time, over a few days, or a few consecutive sessions, you can end up feeling very horny and it's like a chaser after an orgasm.

Also FYI: Also, you can end up very disinterested an unable to have a good erection for awhile after that. So if you were to go over to her house and massage her as you describe for say three days in a row, you might find your erection goes away for awhile.

It's the constant hyper stimulation from massaging her that is causing this.

I don't know your relationship, but I wouldn't probably try to hide my erection. It's just an erection, it doesn't mean you have to have sex or are asking to have sex. It's good information for her to have though, both that you are stimulated, and that you aren't asking for sex.

Also, I'd fuck her, or I wouldn't be massaging her. I mean, it's just playing with yourself, headwise, to be doing this. Especially without the communication. Hey I have a hardon. Hey how about sex. Or if you aren't going to have sex, why do the massage? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Very mixed messages you are sending your brain.

This isn't just bonding behaviors. Bonding behaviors are only possible, in my opinion, when sex is ON the table (maybe in a week or two, with a decision you've both made) or OFF the table (like with your dog, or with a cuddle buddy.)

This is very dopamine driven, and of course it is. In energy terms you are building up immense sexual energy and it has nowhere to go. Bonding behaviors are for when you are having or going to have sex.


Wow I didn't know that isn't

Wow I didn't know that isn't the approach I am going into bonding with. I have no intention in my heart for my bonding to lead to intercourse any time soon .. I mean maybe some day in the next few months.

Not to be too dualistic but my penis does have a different idea.

I do think I shouldn't hide my erection.. or show it off. I don't want her to feel threatened at this stage in our bonding.

Why I massage her is because I love to and she loves it. I simply love the contact and her melting under my touch. My main problem before is she though I was just massaging her to groom her to stick my dick in her. Which sometimes I was.. but often I wasn't. . . or it sort of evolved into me massaging her a lot without sex.. which was good sometimes but often did result in sexual charge.. which it has againand I hate that aspect.

I massage because we love it. I just have to move beyond the sexual crap and eventually maybe we can both surrender to it.

good luck with that!

I don't think it's sexual crap.

It's more like denying on a conscious level what the reptile brain craves Dash 1

Sexual stuff is fantastic, it is furthest away from crap.

I believe from reading your posts that you have a belief that sex has some badness associated with it. 

Your brain wants to have sex with her. She and you aren't ready but that's just the pre frontal cortex talking -- the underlying you wants it to happen. You don't go over to a woman's house and give her massages in your underwear without that being front and center, LOL.

And that's a good thing!


I'm hoping that it goes well

I'm hoping that it goes well when you talk at counseling. i wonder what would happen if you said, "Hey, I love massaging you, but in a way it makes me uncomfortable because it reminds me of the bad sex we used to have."

She needs to realize that you're also eager to throw out the old patterns when sex does come back up on the table.

And in throwing out old patterns and trying to establish new ones, obviously the massaging bonding behavior already has some unhealthy, non-bonding associations for both of you. It's kind of amazing that it's worked for you thus far.

Would she be up for other bonding behaviors? How about the crazy one about jumping up and down and screaming while holding hands, and then lying still together. Could you learn to tango together?

I think that you must have some very good 'thought control' strategies that work for you in other situations. I hope you describe those sometime for the benefit of other men on here. Why do you think your strategies are less effective in this massaging context?

Conditioned response

You've described how in the past you would massage your wife and then have the reward of occasional, semi 'ritualised' sex. I think it's a big mistake to imagine that by changing your superficial mindset, and the eventual outcome, but going through an otherwise familiar routine, you will automatically change your wife's expectations, any more than you have your own deep set desires. Presumably, she knows you're getting erections, so trying to pretend you aren't, or pretending they are a misrepresentation of the truth, isn't going to stop her doubting the depth or sincerity of your conviction that sex is not what you want. It also isn't stopping you getting just as frustrated as you used to when sex was the overt rather than covert motivation behind the massage.

I appreciate your relationship with your wife is complex and you want to make a fresh start. I think you'd have more chance of success if she were the one giving the massage, with you, the passive recipient. You might still be getting erections, but at least there would be no hackneyed script from the past prompting her to get her vibrator out, so something different might occur.

Better still, if you could chose some other, less one sided activity, that emphasised closeness and intimacy ...

Why limit yourself?

Oh boy...where to begin...

First off, thank you for describing how I feel about giving my wife back rubs. The only difference for me is, we are having sex with each other. It's huge for us that the back rub is no longer a prelude to (or precondition for) sex. It's an act of loving kindness and a moment of connection that is complete in itself. Often it doesn't result in sex, which is a good thing. I could not have understood this before.

But your situation is different. Except for in a professional context (i.e. you pay someone for a massage), a [naked] back rub is an intimate act. How many women do you know that would be naked in front of you and allow you to touch their body unless they were open to sex with you? That's right...none; at least not unless they were trying to punish you.

After rebooting and embracing Karezza, my wife and I started having really great sex. She confessed to me that the sex before was a chore, she didn't look forward to it, and in fact tried to avoid it whenever possible. Now, she looks forward to it, plans for it and even initiates. I tell you this because your wife might only need to believe that the sex with you would be different. At first, explaining that to my wife wasn't easy. I wasn't sure about it myself; the outcome was quite a [pleasant] surprise to us both.

I think it's hard to explore Karezza without involving your partner. That would be like trying to dance the Tango by yourself. Why not try and take the next step? After rubbing her back, ask her if she'd like you to do the other side. You might find doing "the exchanges" from CPA or something similar is a good way to ease into it. All you're really after is more intimacy. Sex [the way you want it to be now] can emerge naturally out of that.

My $.02

OK. So the counseling went

OK. So the counseling went well. We are advancing. A lot of damage has occurred in our sexual relationship.. basically from her feeling obligated and reluctantly surrendering to sex because she feels/felt I am a wonderful man who she loves.

We are so connected and happy together.. just hanging out and talking.. she is openingvthis way to me so much now. . our intimacy as friends is amazing. Our hurdle is sex. This you all obviously see.

I realize I really never ever allowed her to open as a sexual being to me. I never allowed her to open as a woman.

I made her feel so accepted by me in so many other ways.. but I was always pushing to fuck. This was my insecurity .. my addiction.. my desperation for stress relief.

I am not totally blaming myself here... relationships are complex .. the dances and expectations are too.

I am recognizing the back massages are something I don't want to stop because I enjoy touching her in a safe way that is safe for me too (mostly) It is very sweet for both of us.. if my cock wants to get excited.. well.. that is fine too.. my reptile does not rule me.

The story I tell myself to allow my penis to express itself is actually helping me I think . ..not really torture.. just recognizing and not feeling obligated to indulge my urges... anymore than if we were having intercourse do I have to indulge orgasm...? well hopefully it is a similar thing.

I actually enjoy my penis responding like it should at this point.. yes I will become charged.. but once we do eventually intimately have our genitals enveloping each other I assume the charge could be even more pronounced.. how could it not be?

If we are ever able to handle karezza as a couple .. I better get good at allowing my charges to arise and then pass. I am feeling better now too though because I am not masturbating and fueling my fire.

I don't want to extinguish this fire.. nor do I want it to run me like it did.

Yes though.. I think we need to have a better balance.. I am not going to massage her again until I get more balanced giving from her.

Our therapist suggested eye gazing for 5 min daily and or just holding hands facing each other.. also a 5 min hug was suggested but my wife had severe anxiety come up around the long hug prospect... she enjoys me spooning her at night in our underwear before she sleeps but the face to face hug is currently too much.. ? ..

She is amenable to the eye gaze but it had to come from a third party rather than me or I believe she would have thought it corny or awkward or a manipulation. I know some of you partners out there know exactly what I mean.

So.. less back massage.. more eye gazing..

Suggestions are correct... We must change bonding behaviors around so we both aren't just saying deja vu in our hearts.. and loins.

Baby steps. I feel better.. all the suggestions and success stories are helping me inside so much.. thank you all :)