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On day four of our exchanges I couldn't take it anymore, and lucky for me my wife, PW, was in agreement. I couldn't wait another day. So that afternoon we walked upstairs, entered our bedroom, removed our clothes, and made love on our bed. 30 minutes of rich, warm wonderful love. It's hard to believe that just 1 1/2 weeks prior to this day we had sunk to hell and had admitted that our marriage was a sham

For more years than either of us could remember, our marriage was on life support. We were two miserable people living together in the same house, and were fools for calling our relationship a marriage. Let's be realistic: same-sex marriage does not destroy the institution of marriage. Many, many straight couples have destroyed that sacred institution long ago. For the last 28 years PW and I stayed together. Since PW had been through one other divorce, we had promised each other that we would remain in this marriage, no matter what. We had begun our lives together feeling in love. But now, close to 28 years later, even though we had convinced ourselves that the love we now shared was "Agape," I now gag when I think that I dared to compare our miserable existence to the same love that Christ had for the Church. Such belief was hypocritical at best and heretical at worst. This wasn't Christ's love. We had long given up our marriage vows, and were merely tolerating each other. We had gradually grown apart, and neither of us helped the other. I like to have fun, but my fun would often move over into what I would call playful teasings. These "teasings," however, were more cruel than I cared to admit. She shunned me. She turned to criticising me opening in front of family members and church family alike. I was hurt by her jabs, but she was hurt by me as well.

Our physical needs were still present, but were rarely consummated. PW went to bed earlier and earlier, while I stayed downstairs to watch tv. Sometimes I'd just fall asleep on the couch. Other times I would go to bed with her. At times I would sense the need for some sort of touch, some intimacy, but it took a lot of nerve for me to approach her. On many nights when I reached out my hand and touched her on the shoulder, she would grab my hand and very violently push it back. On those nights I would usually pleasure myself. Porn was not much of a problem, but I did have a vivid imagination. On the rare occasions she would give in, and I would practically devour her like an animal, I was so hungry for her.

I wanted to save our relationship so badly, but didn't know how to go about doing it. I naively thought that if I could give her enough erotic physical pleasure it would at least help our relationship. I studied up on how to stimulate her clitoris. I "found" the G spot. I studied how to use my hands, fingers, tongue. I took myself over every possible square inch of her body. She was, in fact, enjoying it once we got more into it, which encouraged me. I saved penile penetration until after her climax, as I often lasted just seconds after being inside her before ejaculation. We both experienced orgasms. And yet, sadly, when we were "finished" (quickly, of course), it wasn't a good, blissful feeling. Embarassing and shameful was more like it. . We didn't talk. We cleaned up, and went to sleep on either side of our king-sized bed. I was miserable and I knew she had to be as well.

But God wasn't finished with us yet.



wow, I'm so thrilled

how did you get here? I am so happy you are here and eager to hear more. Don't be afraid of just coming out with any issues or questions as you move along this wonderful road. I think it will be amazing for you and you'll only say, glad to have found this now!


works best when it comes from within. Without mutual affection and the "urge to merge," it becomes a living hell for many. (It did for me too!)

Just know that if you're taking things all the way to climax, you may see some fallout over the next two weeks. Your perception of each other may shift for the worse; old fears and projections may rear their ugly heads; and you may think, "this hasn't worked after all."

Know that this is just your sneaky brain chemistry serving your genes. For more: The Passion Cycle

If hot sex + love solved all relationship problems...most married couples would have no problem staying in love. Don't fall for biology's tricks again.

That "hurtful comments" between cranky spouses problem has apparently been around a long time. This is from 100 years ago in Stockham' book.

With Karezza, satiety is never known, and the married are never less than lovers; each day reveals new delights….The common daily sarcasms of married people are at an end, the unseemly quarrels have no beginnings and the divorce courts are cheated of their records.


i now see it everywhere, in most of the couples i see. Sarcasm, smart ass, back handed compliments, supposedly 'good natured' banter. Its how couples everywhere communicate.

Then i remember my own post O barbs, clearly. At first they distressed me, how come we just had great sex and less than 24 hours later im hoeing into her with some less than nice remark. Eventually a pattern formed, but because i didnt understand it, started learning to watch out for, expect and to censor it. All that did was sugar coat a problem that wouldnt go away.

Oh, the "O," Nope, but we still have work to do....

The orgasm, the climax, I misunderstood it all. Even as a middle aged guy I thought the climax was what we all needed, and that it was the only way. Who ever heard of reading a book, or watching a movie without staying for the climax? The climax is how you know you're finished, right? If you go to any Christian sex advice sites, well, let's just say they're not much help. Up until stumbling upon the concept of karezza, tantra, and slow sex, I had never even thought of the possibility that we didn't even need a traditional orgasm, it wasn't essential, and in fact it was desirable to avoid it altogether if you truly wanted to bond as a couple. I also had it in my head that I could not possibly make love to my wife WITHOUT having a climax, complete with ejaculation. I couldn't possibly hold it back, no way, uh uh.

Well, I was wrong, and I can't believe how beautiful it is. I now feel connected in a very special, very intimate and loving way, with the one I love. We made love a few days before that with the same experience. I still can't believe I can make love without a concern. Well, almost no concern. I'm not that good, but the breathing, relaxing the muscles, and going slow is very helpful. It's all in the brain, I've decided.

PW, on the other hand, has asked to back up and to do the whole re-boot thing. She did not climax yesterday either, but although she shared how much she enjoyed being with me, she also admitted to being pretty frustrated at the end. One week ago, when we came together for the first time, for two hours, our experience was awesome. However, she did not have the concept down, felt led to climax, and I helped her along the way. It was her birthday, after all. Smile Actually I think part of her problem is yours truly. I get too much pleasure from seeing my wife get excited.

So, we both agreed to the formal re-boot process. She wants it, and I will go along with it, because I want so much for my wife to learn as well. As much as it is driving me crazy to even think we have to begin from the beginning, I am willing to do it for her. We are in love. We are enjoying our new life together. She told me she is at peace, which just blows me away to hear that. But, we both need to learn some more, I'll admit that. A part of me enjoys seeing her get excited and turned on. I guess it's a guy thing.

Which brings up another subject. Marnia, what do you think of the so-called valley orgasm? Is it something you feel one needs to avoid as well, based on your research and personal experience? I just want what is best for my dear wife. Well, I guess I would like that too. Also, what can I do to get these crazy cravings out of my head and groin? I want her so bad. I feel like a stupid teenager, when in truth we are in our late 50's. It's almost embarassing, but the truth is that she is all I can think about right now, and I'm having a very difficult time slowing down myself. I can avoid the climax; I just can't keep my probing hands all over her body. I want to be inside of her morning noon and night, which would make our worship services interesting to say the least. lol

So, any hints or encouragement out there from you more experienced ones on how to control oneself would be greatly appreciated.

you're doing awesome

just be patient with yourself. This all takes awhile. Really it took us about six months. My wife still orgasms occasionally. She isn't sold on not doing it and that's cool with me. 

I was very needy for the first few months too. That went away after awhile. 

When you learn to relax more the horny feelings diminish too. When sex is not as edgy, it is very satisfying and tends to leave you feeling really good. You'll get there.

The key is focusing on your own body and not hers. Focus on the root of your penis, and keep your focus there. Focus on relaxing that area, just with your mind. The more you do this the more pleasurable it gets and its' easier to keep in the 5-6-7 zone rather than the 8s and 9s.

It's natural to love to have your wife orgasm from your efforts. It's built into us. But I would try to avoid it unless she asks for it. 

Really eager to hear how you progress.


Thank you, Emerson. Appreciate the encouragement and advice. I must say it's difficult focusing on the root of my penis when there is so much in front of me to focus on. Smile Hopefully it will happen in time.

it will

it all just takes some time. I have found the experience is incredible when I focus on myself and not on my partner's arousal. Of course it's all the joy and pleasure I get from my partner -- it is indescribable. But I try to keep my focus on my perineum and it just seems to make things more and more pleasurable all the time.

Sometimes I realize I have lost my focus and then I gently bring it back.

Not doing so well, but that's OK under the circumstances

Well so much for the rebooting. That didn't happen.

But first let me explain something far, far more important that happened. Something very tragic. As a pastor I never know when I'll receive a phone call with awesome news or very sad news. In order to protect the privacy and dignity of the family in case anyone should find out who I am, all I can say is it was a very tragic death, and these particular circumstances were different than any I had experienced before. It was one of those days that a pastor just knows that nothing much can be done other than to be present with the family. In the past couple of weeks I have officiated three other funerals, including one for a young person killed tragically in an auto accident. I don't mean to dwell on this, except to say that our work lives very much effect a couple's relationship, including and especially the profession of church pastor. Days like this also puts some of our pettiness into perspective, at least for a time.

When I went home and shared my day with PW, she could not have been more supportive and loving. We just held each other for a while, inwardly counting our blessings and being reminded once again of the brevity of life. After a time, she leaned down and whispered to me, "If you'd still want to, we can forego the exchanges tonight and make love together. I want to comfort you." Very soon, we went upstairs.

I don't want to make this overly dramatic, only to say I got carried away, and now I'm back to square one. Since I had the experience both with and without climax, I can now say that I much, much prefer the feeling of not having had one. It's been a couple of weeks, and I sure feel different now than before. If there is anything good about this, it's that now I feel much more ready to tackle the exchanges. We begin, once again, tomorrow.

Now, having said all that, this afternoon's tragedy has helped to put things into perspective for me. Life isn't about self pleasure only. It is about giving of oneself to others. I did my best with the family, and PW gave her all to me. Right now, if you believe in prayer, you might say a prayer for the family in need right now.
Thank you.

Sounds like quite

a day. I'm glad you could contribute your comforting self.

As for your karezza adventures...we've always learned more from our orgasms than our consistency. It's just how it is for us humans, I guess. In the end, it actually helps integrate the concept for most of us.

*big hug*

Thank you. I don't know about my wife, but I

certainly feel different on the day after a climax to ejaculation. I feel weaker, less virile. Could be my imagination, but I don't think so. I'm wondering, what is the longest a man can go before purposely or accidentally o'ing? What is Gary's experience? How about you? BTW, a technical observation: I also couldn't believe the incredible amount of semen; I never knew so much could build up over two weeks. I'm learning a lot these days.

Since PW is going a way for a few days in less than two weeks. She would like to begin the exchanges again at day 5. How do you think that would work?

we're failing but not failing

Well, I must admit we aren't being too successful in the karezza department. This morning while sitting on the couch in the tv room, I asked pw if I could massage her feet. And then we began talking about the day before, and I shared a few things, and well....she invited me to begin the day in a special way, so to speak. So there on the couch we made love once again, and both of us climaxed. I have to say it was awesome.

So we're failing in karezza, at least for the time being. And yet, in terms of our relationship with each other, we have never felt more in love. We have learned a lot. Marnia's daily bonding behaviors are what has helped us to connect once again. Through them, we have had more deep sharing time than we have had in years. Just talking to each other in deeply intimate ways has been like a healing balm. We have learned that we do care for each other, and we are once again living up to the marriage vows. Plus, even though we have ended our recent love making times with orgasms, both of us realize that our love-making has been different, better. We both have been taking it very very slow. We have taken the time to enjoy each other more, We have sought to give to each other and to be focused on each other. I especially notice that I feel less like an animal and more like a loving husband. We also actually talk during sex, which we have never done before. And mostly, my wife shared with me that our love-making is just better because she knows in her heart that I love and care for her. That makes it better for her, knowing we're not just going for some self-seeking goal. This morning we both just held each other for a long time. It was wonderful. I just feel that with all that has been happening in my life the last year, and with us in the process of healing a poisoned relationship, it just felt good to have that physical and emotional release. I have no guilt. Right now it just feels good to be married again.

My plan is to purchase the hard copy of CPA. I originally purchased the e-book to read on my lap top, and also added it to my wife's computer. ]PW just prefers reading "real" books. So, we do plan to read the book and explore the concepts more fully. I think now I was trying to go too fast without having read the whole book, and without my wife reading hardly any of it.

So, we have failed so far to have sex without at least one of us having or wanting to have orgasm. But, at the same time, I thank Marnia Robinson for pointing us the way toward more affectionate bonding. She has helped to restore our marriage.

No such thing as "failed"

This is all a normal part of the learning curve.  And it sounds like what you're doing is very healing for you two. That's what matters.

My hope is that people will experiment and choose the path that is right for them. It's much easier to do when you know how daily bonding behaviors work, and how how orgasm can cause ripples over the weeks following. (Hopefully you won't see these ripples, but they may well have been the culprit earlier in your marriage, so stay alert.)

Right now, I'd say you two are heavily influenced by the joy of falling back in love. Nothing wrong with that. Just pay attention, so you can down shift if you need to. Smile

The current hard copy of Cupid is more up to date than the Kindle version. The publisher wouldn't update Kindle last year, but they promise to take care of it next month.

The Exchanges are just an aid, so use them anyway you like.

If it happens in week two, we better watch out.

Marnia, et al.,
I cannot believe it. Our intention, at least mine, was to do scissors this afternoon for a little bit, and just relax. We had little sleep the night before because we didn't get home from a concert until after 2 am. I hadn't had anything to eat, and I was tired.

Or at least I thought I was tired.

So we got into scissors position. it was actually the first time for that; I'm a real dork sometimes, and it took me some time to figure it out from the drawing, LOL. I must say it felt very good, and I was ready to relax, and even perhaps fall asleep in that position. However, the longer we were there, the more aroused PW became. I better spare you the nitty gritty details of what happened next, except to say our time together lasted 3 1/2 hours, and PW kept "O-ing" and "O-ing," in many different ways, and nectar flowed 3-4 times. She had never experienced more than one before and never the nectar. We are still enjoying the "O's," but we have learned a powerful lesson about going sloooooowly, gently (most of the time) and to savor each moment.

We also learned to talk a lot during our time together, about what pleasured us, etc. But aside from that, PW said something especially profound which is a powerful learning experience, one in which I hope to share with my couples getting married, and any couple with problems or challenges. She told me what you already know. Awesome sexual responses from her come from her knowing that I love her and cherish her. The porn and tv sit coms, movies, etc. give the impression that it is all in the technique. Do this or that, touch her like this, or use your tongue just so, and she will respond. NONE OF THAT WORKS. Technique is great. BUT, nothing at all will work unless a matureloving, trusting bond is established with each other. PW shared that she would to do, and very much WANTED TO DO absolutely anything physically with me and for me this these last few days and even more so today, because she felt such incredible love for me. She knew finally that I care for her, deeply. We both had more confession and forgiveness extended to each other before we did anything else.

So, the "sex" won't build the relationship. It is the bonding that builds the relationship. Caring words, Confession and Forgiveness offered, caring deeds done for each other (including just simple stuff), gentle bonding touch, looking into each other's eyes, kissing with meaning (wow, we learned how to really kiss too), actually all of Marnia's bonding behaviors helped us to become reacquainted.

And look what happened. I joke with her that I think I created a monster, but it's a monster I am really enjoying right now. We have never, never experienced anything like what just happened this afternoon. At first, I wasn't going to climax, but after 3 1/2 hours of multiple "O's" from her, I finally decided to join her. It was leg-quivering amazing.

Like I said, PW and I did a lot of talking before, during, and after. We both said a lot, but there is something else that stood out. She said that these times together have been a result of our healing, and our reuniting has been a result of the healing, but also a part of the healing. She also believes that what we have been experiencing the last three days, and especially today with the multiples, the flow, the actual desire to pleasure me in multiple ways, has been a release of many, many years of emotional pain. She had been wounded for a very long time, and now it is as if her mind, heart, and body have been healed and released from all that. PW has always been consistently tired, for many, many years. No matter what day or time of day, when I asked her how she felt, she would say she was tired. But today, I asked her how she felt, and she turned to me and said, "yeah, I'm tired. But it's a goooood tired. And I have this wonderful peace about me." I don't know if it was because she perhaps experienced what Diana Richardson calls the valley orgasms, or that we have had so much healing in our relationship, or perhaps a litte bit of both. Right now, I just feel blessed. I had prayed for for a day like this.

So, again, thank you for reminding us that we need to bond daily, and for giving us practical ways in which to do so. I'm also wondering if my wife and I will ever want to go to Karezza. PW and I both reached incredible heights today. Not just raw sex, mind you, but sex that was built on a foundation of mutual caring and bonding love. Your teaching on bonding alone is worth far more than the price of the book.

Tomorrow is Monday. Hope I can walk, and....I wonder if this dreamy grin will ever go away. I'm afraid to show myself anywhere, because I'm sure people can read me like a book, a very erotic book.


Sounds like you two have chosen a lovely way to heal. Enjoy!

Hopefully, you'll never experience the fallout. But I'll warn you what might happen, so you can recognize it and observe yourselves with detachment in case it does.

If your brains have been overstimulated, it's normal to want more and more...until one person hits a sort of "satiety point" and Doesn't Want Anything More At All (for a time). If the second person is still in "escalation" mode, this can be really painful because it feels like a rejection at one's most vulnerable moment. It's easy to believe you are being mistreated by an uncaring mate.

It isn't a rejection, of course, but it's painful for everyone because  the partner who isn't feeling it can't do much with any "heart" in it (temporarily), and the other person also has real feelings of Genuine Need.

This is what can lead to hurt feelings all around...unless you both just laugh at biology's tricks and stick to bonding behaviors until your libidos return to harmony naturally. This is tough to do, because the "done" partner often tries to rush things to please the other, and the needy partner is, of course, very willing to be move ahead too. Better to wait until both are "feeling it."

I hope you won't need this advice, of course, but if you do, it's here.

*big hug*

What you are describing could very well happen,

so I really appreciate the heads up. I take your wisdom seriously because my wife, as dear as she is, has experienced extreme moodiness in the past. Of course I think that also had to do with the crappy way I have treated her, intentionally and unintentionally. I've been sharing your words of advice with her also, just so she's been made aware of possible changes.

BTW, both of us seemed to be satiated last night, and we went to bed with a tired but contented feeling. Well, lo and behold we went at it again. 15 - 20 minutes of oral and intercourse pleasure, to climax. Now, this morning, I am sure both of us have nothing left to give, and have reached that contented point of satiety.

Part of me really wants to try your concepts, but I gotta tell you I would not have traded this weekend for anythiing. So I'll continue to read CPA, as well as the Robinson books.

I still have a hard time comprehending that after 28 years this has happened. It's like a miracle, and I'm not overstating it. This is going to have an impact on my life, including my role as pastor. Peace begins at home, as you well know.

Thank you.

*big smile*

I wouldn't have wanted you to miss this weekend either! I'm sure it has been very healing, and not a step to have missed. I think we have to trust The Giant Hand to know what we need and in what sequence.

But in my experience It has more It wants us to learn about sexuality than just how to bliss out on sex. At least it certainly did for me. Dash 1 (<--me, for years)

Oh believe me I am learning!

Our times together have been deeply fulfilling, because we have taken the time. It's not goal oriented. It's not "getting the job done and over with." It's not being insecure about erection or other issues. In fact, PW shared she likes it especially in that in between state.

It is about being quiet with ourselves. It's about communication, both verbally and body language communication. It is about being sensitive to the other. It is about being fully and completely in love. Bonding makes it possible, and then love making encourages more bonding.

Looking forward to tonight....

ready to give K a try, but as you know...

(I said essentially the same thing in a response to Kevin, but thought I'd add it here on my blog as well.)_

I see the value in karezza for my wife and myself, and we have decided that we would like to give it a try. Last night, and again this morning, we have had slow K lovemaking. I seem to have easily gotten the hang of it, and I really enjoy it. It feels great just being inside my wife for extended periods of time. It's an indescribable feeling, and she enjoys it greatly too. I can tell, because she gets extremely wet. Never knew she could get so wet. It's WONDERFUL.

But, I gotta tell ya: it hasn't been easy for my wife. These last two times of making love with no orgasm, she ended up being extremely frustrated. She gets very revved up easily. In the past, her orgasms had been achieved through oral or finger stimulation, mostly with the clitoris or her g spot, followed by a very brief intercourse. We also admitted to each other that we maturbated at least weekly. Last weekend (see above) was incredible. She had several orgasms of several different levels, helped along by myself, through I, O, and manual stimulation, just about everywhere that felt good to her.

So Now, with intercourse only along with breast stimulation, she gets extremely aroused with out any release. She loves the bonding time. She loves that I can stay inside of her much longer. Both of us are having a second honeymoon. However it's also making my wife crazy. We try to relax and just enjoy the moment, but she can't. She gets too excited and then too frustrated at not being able to "finish." After our second try, she is thinking that as much as she enjoys having me inside of her, the intense frustration of not climaxing is getting to be too much for her.

So, how do I help my wife to just enjoy the arrousal and everything else with it, without having this urge to find a way to go "over the edge?" Or, should we give in and help her along the path to orgasm? I'm concerned about moodiness, and I'm thinking the hormones are just crazy right now.

What is your advice? I know. Marnia will say, "I told you so!" I know, we asked for it. Her dopamine levels are probably way off, and she's experiencing the downer after going at it all weekend.

Problem is, neither of us want to go 2 weeks with the exchanges. We are so sexually charged right now the exchanges are too stimulating.

So, any other advice? How do I encourage her to keep going and to not give up?

couple of choices

I'm thrilled that you are getting so much wonderful deep passion going. It's fantastic, words cannot describe and I"m so glad for you.

Choices are this. You can do what she asks. If she wants you to help her orgasm, then you can do it. You can not orgasm. I have had my wife have plenty of orgasms but I haven't had any for a long time. She hasn't had as many as she used to, but she sometimes wants one and I help her with that. I figure she's a big girl and can make her own mind up.

Other choices, you can say no. But why would you do that?

This really takes awhile, months. And yes, you and she are under the orgasm spell and the passion cycle which I believe is very real. But even if most of the time one of you comes, if you are determined that this is the road you want to take, it can get easier and easier as you go along.

I really think you should show resolve and not orgasm for awhile. Let her do what she wants. Just be inside her for a long time, in stillness, and if she wants to come at the end, help her out but you don't have to come yourself. And this gradually will create a place where she'll be more attracted to what you have. And the feelings that you will have are incredible, not to be believed.

That's a tough one

As with everything about sex, there's no one right way. The approach in my book is what worked best for us. But Darryl and his wife started with him passing on orgasm...and her going for it. Eventually she had had enough and they came into alignment.

Forcing someone into something that feels 'wrong" doesn't work well.

That said, I think you should always wait until she asks. Don't inquire.. Make sure it's at her request.rather than for your enjoyment...or you may miss the signals when she feels more balanced. That said, do enjoy it. Wink

Yeah not sure

My beloved is sometimes a little steamed up, and i dont think this is terribly surprising, given that it was me who was the one who was sensitive to all this. Also im starting to notice a pattern that shes more likely to excite if shes had a challenging day.

My approach has been to sort of coach her. This wont work with everyone im sure, but tips like reminding her to relax the pelvic floor, breathing into the belly, looking for tension in other parts of the body, visualising moving the energy from genitals to heart.

I think the pelvic floor is a big one, and we actually do some of the exercises Dianne suggests together before hand, like standing up and relaxing the pelvic floor muscle group. Then ever so slowly tightening it then letting it go really really slowly. This builds awareness of the muscles, and the more you do this the more you realise you are going about your whole jolly day with a tight butt.

Ive found for me this supports intention, if i am clenching thats associated with excitement seeking, if relaxed, then the sexual energy is more in the form of loving. My2c.

Thank you!

After I wrote my plea and agonized over this much of yesterday, i came to the conclusion on my own that to leave my wife in a state of extreme frustration was not being a very good husband. So, I told her that. When we had a quiet moment downstairs I shared with her that if she feels the need for an orgasm, then I will help her to that state. When she is hurt, I am hurt. I said that just because I am at this state of not needing to orgasm and ejaculate, doesn't mean that she should be denied it at this time. One other thing I promised. That we would always go slow. One time this past week, I had gradually reverted back to my former, hungry animal, machinistic faster, faster, faster state. No more. All that does is wear me out, make her somewhat sore and insensitive, we're finished way too soon, etc., etc. I love our time in bed now. I thought I did before, but both of us agree that what we had before and what we have now are so different. Both of us loooooove the slow, slow way in which we make love. I can stay inside of her for infiity and an hour goes by so quickly.

I gotta tell you, when I shared this with her yesterday afternoon, the look on her eyes was total bliss. You would have thought I had given her the world. So naturally, we went upstairs and closed the bedroom door. And then again last night. And once again this morning (this morning without orgasm, just warm and delicious). She gave me the supreme compliment that whereas before she sometimes dreaded when I touched her with the desire to become intimate, she now desires me more and more.

So, when I finally went back to read your responses, I was pleased that you confirmed my intuition. Thank you, thank you thank you for confirming my hunch that what I decided was the right thing, for now. All of you have become my friends. And, Marnia and Diana Richardson have become our marriage saviors.

it's much better this way

when one person isn't trying to control or cajole their partner. 

You can however if she is open to it help relax and not get quite as aroused. That way she won't be frustrated. It takes time to get there...but it's much better.


The thing with the frustration

Ive noticed is that by morning it is gone, poof. And then the whole week is lighter. Ive watched my beloveds mind churning, computing on this one! Tough choice, which do i want? Id say she's squarely on the fence right now. But as she's agreed to trial karezza properly for a couple of weeks, we will no doubt review and see what she ultimately chooses.

A very encouraging update

Well, right now we just can't seem to get enough of each other, although I admit PW has better self-control than I do. She actually sees work that needs to get done around the house. Smile Otherwise, we'd be forever in bed.

We both had to get up before 4 this morning to get someone to the airport. By the time we dressed, had breakfast, and went to the AP and back, we had about 45 minutes of alone time. I know this is all new to us, and we're still in this intense honeymoon period, but I still can't believe that each time we are together it seems to get better and better. My wife and I feel like we have discovered something that is almost unbelievable and too good to be true. We cannot imagine heaven being any more beautiful. This morning, from looking at her eyes and her overall expressions, it seemed as if she was transported to some higher and higher plane.

Here's the best news: Toward the end, I helped bring her to a peak climax. After we were resting in each others arms, she said, "You know, I didn't think I would ever say this, but that last peak wasn't as enjoyable as the rest of our time together this morning. All the while we made love, I began to relax more, and tense up less, and that seemed to do something to me that the traditional "o" just did not. The orgasms I had been used to having were enjoyable, but also very tense. What I enjoy now I can't really describe, except to say it is WONDERFUL.

While I don't know for sure, it seems she is experiencing what Marnia and Diana Richardson describe as valley orgasms. This I do know: she is blissful, content, and at peace. And, both of us desire each other almost constantly. We have never felt so in love.

Thanks again for your great support through this. It's not like I can share this with the folks in my Bible Study, although someday I would really like to find some way to share this with the world. Someday....

Sunday, a good day

A few days ago PW and I had "made an appointment" with each other to have pvi on Sunday morn before worship. I had read somewhere on this site that having pvi before a speaking engagement is a good thing in that it increases energy, confidence, etc. So, we were together for about an hour before.

I learned something that morning:

*I have to know that my wife is enjoying our time together just as much or more than I do. If she is not gaining anything from our time, then I don't gain anything either. This seems to go against what I have read from others, who write that if we just focus on ourselves, particularly the base of the penis, then we will gain much more. Please explain.

*Communication of our wants and desires is very important, as well as honoring those requests. Since we still had some time afterwards, we talked with each other. She shared that she while she did enjoy her time with me, she would have preferred 30 minutes in one position instead of an hour in 2 or 3. That brought up a concern from me that she speak to me of her desires and wants at that time. She said she would have except she wanted to please me. I said, next time just tell me. To that, she responded, "I would, but you don't seem to take "no" for an answer!" Ouch. She's right. I'm much more inisistent about this than she is, so I promised to work on that.

*Morning isn't the best time for us. While I'm already anytime at any hour, She's still waking up in the morning. It takes her a while to get herself going. So, I'm thinking that scheduling about 30 minutes of snuggle time on Sunday mornings will be a good compromise.

All in all, PW and I have been on a very exciting if emotional time together these past 2 or 3 weeks. Our marriage has grown from being diseased and stagnant, to one of health and wholeness. This is what has worked:

*An acknowledgement that our marriage covenant had been broken for many years. Keeping the marriage covenant means much more than just staying together. Being faithful to one another means more than avoiding adultery with someone else. We could be unfaithful by putting anything or anyone above the marriage.

*Accepting divorce as an acceptable possibility if either of us is not willing to repair and heal the covenant.

*A commitment from each other that our marriage is worth saving, and that life is too short to just "exist" in a broken relationship. Both of us deserved better than that.

*Daily bonding behaviors work to begin the process of healing. Committing to regular time together, with touching and sharing, is better than any counselling. During this time, I believe God opened our eyes to the ways in which we had wronged the other, and so we confessed these wrongs to each other as they were revealed to us.

It is possible, and in fact very desirable, to have sex without orgasm or ejaculation. I was afraid this would
be difficult or impossible, but it was actually not that difficult at all for me, especially since we also backed off from the animal-like thrusting and more into gentle and slow sex. This has transformed our time in bed.

This new way of making love has meant that both of us desire each other more and more. I thought I enjoyed making love before, but now I cannot believe the difference. For PW, it often hurt to have I. It's great. Sex - making love - is just one more bonding behavior, and should not be thought of as separate from the marriage relationship itself. Before, PW shared that I was actually painful at times. For me, it was so brief because I cam so very quickly after entering her.

Gaining peace between the sheets means more peace in other areas of life. Leadership is improved. Relationships with others is improved. Speaking as a pastor, this is very big. To those who would say that as a pastor I should not be troubling myself over things such as this, I would say that tending to one's relationship at home and in the bedroom is essential to strong and courageous leadership.

It's OK to ask questions. This is why I am thankful for this website. I could not ask any questions otherwise.
Questions are not a sign of weakness, especially regarding this concept. This is brand new for me, so naturally I have several questions.

Daily bonding as described by Marnia has helped to transform our marriage, along with the writings of Marnia and Diana.

Oh, by the way...

Something else I confirmed: We return to each other for I much, much more than before. It used to be painful for PW at one time. Now it feels very good. This translates into not seeming to get enough of each other. We not only made love yesterday morning, but also in the afternoon and evening.

Preaching to the choir

Hi pastor, it is so good to have you here. I may be preaching to the choir, forgive me. As a Christian myself I can relate to your situation. I love reading your posts, please don't forget you are a witness wherever you are, here especially, where you have an opportunity to speak to the WORLD, and glorify God.
I would Iike to remind you of this verse which I am sure you are quite familiar with. It speaks very clearly to me....."Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, (Ephesians 5:25 NASB)" what that says to me is as husbands we need to be willing to die for our wives, die from all the things we need to die from, whatever they may be, that is an individual thing for each one of us, but just like Christ died for us, we too must die, and put not ourselves first but our wives. What say you?

agree 100%

Yes, putting our spouses first is what I am trying to say. I also believe it would be a mutual giving of one's self to the other, male and female.

Luv2fly, I could write more, and in fact I did. I typed up an extensive response. Problem is, I hit the wrong buttton on the computer and erased it all. Curses! LOL. Unfortunately, I'm out of time right now. Got work to do. So, perhaps we'll continue this conversation another day.


Think all clergy have it all together? Think again...

Hi everyone,
Beginning today, work and family related travel has created a week-long separation between me and my spouse. Since I'm a pretty social guy and don't like being alone for extended periods, I have never enjoyed our separations that much. But now that we have renewed our marriage and have engaged in extensive daily bonding behaviors, including regular PVI, this week is going to be especially difficult for me. She left this morning, and I miss her already. Fortunately, I will be busy, and try to keep my mind occupied. Your thoughts and prayers are appreciated.

I've been thinking a lot about my profession, and the pressures it creates for many clergy and their families. While the majority of UM clergy report great satisfaction in their vocation, there are still significant numbers of clergy in all faiths who report significant levels of stress.

I did some "googling" and found a few articles and studies related to the subject. Here are a few points lifted from one particular study. It is very clear to me, from personal experience, as well as the results from these and other studies, that we clergy need to intentionally carve out time in our days to spend with our spouses. The link to the whole study appears below the following comments:

Occupational stress appears to be a source of family stress among Protestant clergy….High levels of stress appears to be a source of sexual misconduct among clergy.

Ministers, especially those who were sole pastors, indicated that they frequently felt isolated and had few friends or colleagues to whom to turn for help. Many Protestant clergy expressed concern about their inability to set time limits, show their vulnerability, or express appropriate anger with parishioners.

Clergy and their families are in highly visible postions and are often expected to meet numerous and sometimes unrealitstic expectations of their congregations. Tension, fatigue, and the pressure of excessive time demands can drain resources necessary for dealing with the normal responsibilities of family life. In a study of 189 Presbyterian clergymen, their wives and laity, the ministers and their spouses experienced greater loneliness, more emotional exhaustion, and lower marital adjustment than their lay counterparts.

…clergy rank third in percentage among professionals who are divorced.

Among United Methodist pastors,…about 10% of the marriages were in great distress, while another 10% to 15% were under stress and could easily become destabilized.

Twenty-one percent of the married clergy studied indicated that poor communication was the major problem area, while 43% saw inadequate companionship in the marriage as the primary difficulty. The most often cited areas of discord were: inadequate time with spouse, lack of affection, financial problems, not enough time with children, and sexual relations. Marital conflict was most common among young pastors and those unhappy in their work and with their financial situation.

In a study of Southern Baptist senior pastors working in six southeastern states, researchers examined the factors contributing to sexual misconduct with adult members of the church. They found that hbigh levels of stress and sexual misconduct were strongly associated. Ministers with chronic stress from several sources were at the greatest risk of such misconduct. For example, clergy in the midst of personal crises (such as painful marriages or other emotional difficulties) are particularly vulnerable, especially if they are unable to reach out for needed counseling.

The study of Southern Baptist pastors found that 5.8% indicated that they had had sexual contact with a person currently affiliated with their congregation. ….Based on the 5.8% misconduct rate and the U.S. Department of Labor’s 1998 figure of 353,000 clergypersons in this country, it could be extrapolated that more than 20,000 clergy have had sexual contact with at least one adult connected to the congregation.

So, anyone who feels that clergy automatically "have it all together" may need to think again. Actually, I would be surprised if anyone has that impression anymore, given the number of highly publicized instances of clergy sexual misconduct in recent years.

Speaking for myself, I had not stepped over the boundaries into inappropriate relations with anyone else, but at the same time I could see how easily this could have happened. It is clear that my wife and I were not in a very healthy relationship. Thankfully, we have done much to heal past wounds, and we are on the road to becoming a solid, stable married couple. For the health of our marriage as well as the general health of our congregation, my hope is to maintain proper boundaries, and communicate my marriage and time with my spouse as being a top priority. I love her too much to hurt her ever again.

I will miss her this week!

Blessings all.


From my recent similar separation, it might be best to prepare for this to hit quite hard. Youve become very close and its a shock. I found some things to substitute or place hold for all the bonding. Walking, and reading worked for me. Learning something new is good too.


Thanks a lot for the tip. I have a feeling I'm going to be ready for her more than she's going to want me . She and I are practicing karezza, but I still can't just sit and caress her without wanting more. I'm on a steep learning curve, although both of us have learned so much and we're enjoying each other.

With time

libidos do tend to come into sync with this practice. But you both have to be willing to allow the shift to happen so you meet somewhere comfortably in the middle...instead of thinking one person or the other has the "right" libido.

Remember, the goal is satisfaction, not quantity.Drinks