20 year old total virgin, need help please?

Submitted by Wishmeluck on
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Okay this is the first site of this site I have ever joined, although I have tried this on my own a few times. I know this site is about openness, but I am going to be very detailed, so if you are squeamish.. look away now!

I think I have 3 separate but kind of linked problems,

1. I have a huge femdom/BDSM/foot fetish

2. I masturbate in a weird way, which causes something called TMS ( This is a link to a website explaining what it is - http://www.healthystrokes.com/index.html )

3. I don't find the vagina a turn on ( No offense girls!! )

Okay I'll start with number 2 as I think that is easiest. I masturbate by lying on my stomach and rubbing my penis up and down. I've done this for as long as I can remember. I can now masturbate using my hands and try to do so more, but I always relapse. I've seen a few people say it is rubbish that TMS is harmful, but I know from experience it is. It makes my penis desensitize to anything else.

Now onto the minefield that is number 1!

It started off as a fairly tame fetish. I have always liked girls feet, and have always liked controlling girls. As I got older the fetish became more extreme, I became interested in face sitting, armpit licking, and a lot of other things in that way. Then it got about as high up the chain as it can go, I started masturbating to videos of males being used as girls toilets. Yes, toilets, the whole shebang.

From what I have read I am pretty sure most of my fantasies are just that - fantasies. If I experienced them all in real life would I enjoy them? Probably not, well not for most of them.

This links in with number 3. When I see a pretty girl, I never think ' Wow i'd like to have sex with her'. Because the thought of a penis entering a vagina has never been a big turn on for me. When I really try, cold turkey from porn and concentrate on sex I can ejaculate from it, and it does turn me on, but as a rule, not much. Instead I see a girl and think, 'Wow I'd be her footslave/toilet/etc etc'.

The thought of touching or say. tickling a girls private parts actually makes me cringe a little. Sex doesn't, nor does going down on them, but touching it with fingers does!

So before you get so bored you launch your computer out of the window, I'll summarize my life as quickly as I can:

I have always been a bit of what Americans call, 'a jock'. As much as I don't like the stereotyping, I've always been a sportsman, and my group of friends have always been the group that the hot girls hang around with. I was always just the friend with those girls though, either I was just too nice or I just don't make the right moves, who knows.

That being said I have been out with a lot of girls, I just never get anywhere! My first problem came when a girl I was with for a couple of months talked about having sex, I was 17/18 at the time. She wasn't into foreplay so when we were on the bed kissing we just both got undressed and went to do it. My erection disappeared. Several times I went into the other room, lay down and rubbed myself on the bed to get erect then went back, lost erection every time!

That's my experience of trying to lose my virginity. Now I'm so worried it will happen again I'm breaking up with girls before we get to that stage, purely because i'm so worried.

I've now been out a few times with a girl who is twenty four, and frankly stunning, in looks and personality. She knows nothing about any of this and I can't possibly tell her, but I don't want to try to have sex with her and just fail, her being older especially, would be even more humiliating.

So hopefully this is the time I give up with the constant femdom porn and never relapse. If you've read this far then I genuinely want to thank you, just getting this down has felt good, and if any of you have any tips / encouragement / psychiatrists numbers, they would be very much appreciated Wink

Wish Me Luck.


Hey Wish,

Nice sense of humor you got there. That's as sexy as any part of your anatomy. Trust me.

It does sound like you have a bit of rewiring to do unless you want to stay hooked with what you got going right now.

Have you visited Healthy Strokes? It's a website that addresses TMS.

Have you watched Gary's series on porn at YBOP? http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/node

If you want to rewire, you have to understand that brains are plastic...but not liquid. That is, it takes time to retrain, and flashbacks will haunt you for a while.

The key point is that what you get aroused to will continue to strengthen pathways in your brain...so it's your choice. And if you want to rewire...you have to cross the Doldrums, where nothing will seem sexually exciting for a while, until your brain finally notices those stunning women and decides to fire up for them! In short, you kinda have to give up orgasm for a while so your brain gets "hungry" enough to consider snacking (seuxally speaking) on something else - instead of the "short cut to arousal" that is based on the tastes and methods you've wired in thus far.

Here's a chapter from a fascinating book on brain plasticity:


http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/doidge-on-pornography-and-neuroplasticity (excerpts)

You may also find some good support here: YOURBRAINREBALANCED.COM

Good luck!

you have your work cut out for you

as the American expression goes, meaning you have a bit of work ahead of you. Prone masturbation is particularly desensitizing just as you said.

1. BDSM/bondage/foot fetish - this will fade away as you don't feed it. Feeding it = fantasy, masturbation to it, porn about it. Not feeding it means no masturbation to these fantasies, no porn about them, no acting out on them.

2. Reboot means you stop porn, masturbation and orgasm. For awhile. The body and brain regain their original sensitivity. I'm sure you've watched the video on http://www.YourBrainOnPorn.com

3. You should never masturbate prone. You will need considerable time to regain the sensitivity you were born with but it can be done with some time and abstaining from masturbation, porn and orgasm.

It's also important that since you are going out with this older woman, you may find you need some way to avoid getting into a "need to perform" sexual situation. Best to talk to her about taking things slow on the physical side. I told my girlfriend about my difficulties (I was a virgin because I could never maintain an erection before) once she had gotten to know me and already really liked me. She was patient with me and I worked things through and it all worked out very well. Honesty was the best thing (we are now married for a long time and very happy and she is my first and only.)



To Marnia -

Glad you got that I was joking!

I definitely don't want to stay stuck with what I've got, It's easy to go for the quick pleasure, but I want a real relationship with a girl, and I don't want to spend my life hating certain parts of my life.

Yep it was healthy strokes where I learnt what TMS was :) I can now beat the prone masturbation almost at will, and masturbate more normally. Doing it prone mostly coincides with watching porn as it just easier to lie on the bed with laptop in front of me while I do it.

I think you are definitely right, and the "shortcut to arousal" is absolutely spot on!

Thanks for your encouragement :)

Emerson -

The one thing I am unsure of is whether the bdsm/femdom thing will ever truly die. But as long as I can enjoy normal sex and relationships, I don't mind it, but for now like you said I will need to abstain completely!

You are right that I need to keep away from the chance of feeling I need to perform, I have sadly turned down going away with my friends on holiday this year, as I know they want me to lose my virginity but don't understand why I can't, so try to get random girls to sleep with me!

I think I will have to speak to her, I wont tell her about all this but I think telling her I want to take it slow is definitely a good idea.



it does die pretty much

but you are forever susceptible to triggers. I have had that interest since I was a child but I no longer think about it. I do avoid trigger situations, reading stuff about it, seeing stuff about it on TV. Just don't want the brain fired up in that direction again.

Why not tell her

that you have ED (get into the details of TMS only if she seems interested) and so regular sex is probably not possibe for a few months, but you think you might get over it in a few months, and meanwhile you'd love to do other things with her... snuggle up, sleep together, make out, oral sex, whatever you think you would genuinely enjoy at this time.

I think it's important to let women know that the ED is YOUR problem, it's not due to something wrong with them (not being attractive or sexy enough, etc.)

Maybe you will find this inspirational: Just bonding behaviors when starting a relationship

Since you say PIV sex isn't very interesting to you, I'm curious, what DO you want from a relationship? What are you looking for?

Hey man, I'm very much in the

Hey man, I'm very much in the same boat as you and i would really like someone who also used to masturbate prone to talk to. If you'd like to change thoughts about it, that is. Maybe send me a pm or so.

And i wanted to add that even if i think that the author of healthystrokes.com is an amazing person, who wants to help people get rid of that behaviour, he is also a damned stupid one at that.

Why is that?

Because he openly proclaims that 'visual aids' are not a problem at all. It is his opinion that porn is not harmful and that normal masturbation is the most healthiest thing in the world. He simply doesn't seem to understand the brain changes that occur through an addiction.

I think this is most troublesome as it doesn't help to get rid of that goddamn addiction at all, it might at best change it into another direction.

At Marnia - it is a good idea to tell people about healthystrokes.com. But you really should think about adding that the solution which is provided at that site might very well lead people into a troublesome trap of thinking as i can tell by my own experience.

To explain:

Yourbrainonporn.com teached me that I'm and addict and that i have to stop this addiction to get a better life.

Your solution: Quit cold turkey from any kind of PMO.

Healthystrokes.com teaches guys about the trouble of prone masturbation but not at all, why they are having these troubles. Not a hint that they might be addicted at all.

The Authors solution: Stop prone masturbation, start normal masturbation. If you can't do it, stop masturbating prone for a week or a little more, than try it the normal way. By failure, start again. And so one goes through withdrawal again and again and again.

I was and still am stuck in the thinking, that all what is provided at yourbrainonporn makes so much sense, it simply has to work. Then again, maybe that dude from healthystrokes is totally right and i just have to relearn masturbation. Who cares that i will jerk off while being only 50 percent erect. It will get better in time. WRONG. It doesn't. And it always ends in relapsing with prone masturbation and binging at that. Been there for myself too many times.

Needed to get that of my mind.

I'm off to the gym, else i might be relapsing and i don't want that, being just three little days away from making it to a half year without prone masturbation. Good thing it still feels like i did it just yesterday, isn't it? Haha... Not funny at all.

Have a good day everyone.

I appreciate your saying that

I honestly didn't realize the healthy strokes guy was not up to speed on addiction. I'll try to remember to warn people and I'll add your remarks to the key page on YBOP: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/traumatic-masturbation-syndrome

Here's the thing...brains are different. So I suppose there might be people for whom his ideas work...especially if they masturbate without Internet porn. The highspeed Internet factor means all bets are off on masturbation-is-healthy these days. A lot of brains are being overstimulated by it. It's a curse of your time in history. But at least you're not being drafted. Wink

brains are different

I had a lot of trouble with erotic stories. I didn't know they were the problem for decades but they were. So we each are different. I advise people get all porn and erotica out of their life if they are having ED or sexual troubles. Some people are fine apparently with porn and others are not...

Bit of an update.. and a question...

Okay so good news all around ( kind of ) at this point! One time I admit I dived on the bed and was ready for prone masturbation. In fairness it wasn't entirely my fault. I think I told you about the girls I have who are friends that I have got to treat me in a way that I really like. Well out of the blue one of them text me a really long text, which I'm sure she intended to disgust me as I pretend I hate the stuff, but for me was really erotic.

BUT before I even got erect I stopped, rolled over onto my back and read the message. I did get erect but not from going prone, it was only after reading the message, and I didn't act on it either.

I should explain a little more about the not liking vagina thing, as Curious Fellow had a good question. " Since you say PIV sex isn't very interesting to you, I'm curious, what DO you want from a relationship? What are you looking for?"

Honest answer is I am not 100% sure. Went to see American Pie Reunion with the boys last night (awesome film btw), and I did find it pretty sexy when some of the girls were half naked, (most of the film by the way, if you're doing PMO and your issue was addiction to soft pornography, don't go see this film!). Maybe the issue is more that I have been SO obsessed with the Femdom/Fetish side of things I found the whole Penis in vagina thing not interesting because I was too head over heels with other stuff?

Right, I've been kind of trying to self diagnose myself over the last few days from what I have seen and learnt on here, this is my thoughts so far (probably all wrong but can't blame me for trying)
- I am not addicted to porn. I decided this because although I did have fairly strong urges to watch at times, I would often go weeks, even months with nothing but my imagination, and this wouldn't cause me a problem.
- As I have said I used healthy strokes method before. The first time it took me about 2 weeks I believe before i could masturbate normally, then I relapsed. I got to a stage where I could flit between one or the other, and although possibly my erections were never 100%, it was manageable. I therefore think I should be able to beat this, although this time I will make sure I don't relapse even a little bit.
- Random Femdom thoughts have been jumping into my mind, which I have tried to ignore, but also random NON-Femdom thoughts, such as engaging in normal sex with girls have also been jumping into my mind - these I haven't ignored as this is obviously what I want. I am not intending to masturbate at all, even to these (what are to my mind) good fantasies. As I think I need to wait out longer, and I also think this may in some way be my mind tricking me into going back to masturbating straight away, then Femdom thoughts will creep back in ( Does that make me sound like an absoulte crazed lunatic? My mind trying to trick me? If it does then I was just joking. If though, that is something which you all think could well be happening, I am officially a genius!)

So, first off thanks a lot to everyone who has responded ( Cassius, I will definitely be sending you a PM). It helps so much knowing i'm not the only person. Pity I'm not a girl really, they talk about this stuff more!

So i'll leave you with two questions,

1. Do I HAVE to wait months before masturbating, if I am fantasizing a lot about normal sex can I try masturbating in say another week or two, or is it best to wait out?

2. Kind of linked to the first question, if a random thought of sex with a girl pops into my head and I start to get turned on, should I go with it, or shut down any kind of erotic thoughts, no matter what they are?

Thanks guys,


To your questions:

To your questions:

1. For me, masturbation in a normal fashion is no problem at all, I could do it every day. BUT I'm not getting more than 50 to 80 percent erect by it.

More troubling: It gets very, very hard not to relapse after O'ing with normal masturbation. It's what they call the Chaser Effect.

You'll have to try if you can go with normal masturbation without relapsing but I doubt it. I'd bed you will relapse soon after doing so. Fantasizing doesn't help.

2. From my personal experience I'd say you should try avoid fantasy like hell because as you already said, you are not addicted to porn. From what I know, prone masturbation needs fantasizing and fantasizing leads to relapsing with prone masturbation because the two of them are linked so close together. No matter the sort of fantasy.

I never had special or kinky fantasies while masturbating prone, I used those that I got into when I was still very young, only the girls i fantasized about changed. Same with Internet porn: got into it, watched a lot of it but in the end I always masturbated to my own fantasies while using the girls i had recently seen at the screen.

I think that us guys are much more addicted to our own fantasies and this whole prone masturbation thing seems to do a lot of damage on its own. And it gets a lot worse with Internet porn.

Another objection: If you stop using porn, real live triggers are getting much harder to fight. If today I see a hot girl, I still am not thinking: Wow I want to fuck her but instead - Oh boy, I need to masturbate.... After 159 days without it...

But i seem to be a special case and I've seen guys here, who did masturbate prone and after they stopped for like 90 days, they reported about very strong changes with their desires and erections.

So there is definitely hope. I hope Smile

We just need to stop masturbating prone, stop ejaculating, stop using porn, stop fantasizing and get ourselves a nice girl who understands. Easiest thing in the world, haha.


You should tell your

You should tell your girlfriend about your problems, from my expierience that is the only way. And if you be brave enough to tell her, or let her read your text, honesty will also probably help your rebooting and gives you confidence. I also think if you and your girlfriend are getting serious, she has a right to know what kind of problems you're dealing with. Porn addiction is devastating to spouses but if you're man enough to tell her about yourself she'll might understand you. Easy for me to say when you are expecting her to stop dating with you if you tell about your problems, but she'll appreciate your honesty. And if you get into bed and you have told her about your problems, there won't be such a pressure on you. You can just enjoy yourselves where ever it'll lead.

About your "vagina" problem. I used to have a same problem due to watching years of anal porn. I got my brains wired for anal so vaginal sex wasn't that interesting. But after a long reboot period that has changed for me. I used to get an erection from a blowjob or a handjob , but when it came in to actual vaginal sex my erection always failed. Now this is something really hard to face, you have I woman of your dreams in front of you totally naked, waiting for you to take her and you see and rationalize that this is where I always wanted to be, but nothing happens downstairs. This will change with a reboot. Just keep up with your rebooting and make it total. One key issue is to stop fantasizing.


Were you able to separate out

Were you able to separate out whether your wiring was more due to porn that happened to be anal versus anal? In theory, one might wire as readily to anal if one were engaging in anal all the time, especially without PIV. However, maybe anal porn wires one more strongly because of the lack of other cues. Anal porn becomes mostly anal to orgasm, ad infinitum.

Hey man

I have the same exact fetish as you and I rebooted for 77 days no pmo and tried blocking out femdom fantasies as soon as they came in. If you read my blogs and my topics I posted I'm sure you can learn a lot as many of your questions have been answered. So I tested the other day to see if I could get aroused without feet, femdom, etc. I went and got a massage and ended up getting a blowjob from the girl. I noticed that looking at her feet turned me on, but then as I went to kiss them ( all during foreplay) I felt less turned on. So I focused on her breasts, her face and her butt and started sucking on her nipples and kissing her butt as she was giving me head. I ended up keeping my penis hard and ejaculating without a problem. My penis was actually hard from the time ingot naked for the massage. I did notice that my penis was sensitive when she started to give it a handjob and I told her I didn't want that so she proceeded with a blowjob. It was amazing and when I orgasmed I was thinking about how great my penis felt and had no fetish thoughts. I still know that I am not fully healed but know that my desire for the weird fetishes have disappeared almost completely and That my brain is ready to rewire to the really good stuff :). If you read my blogs you can see that I was just as worried as you regarding the fetish aspect as that sucks the most. Btw I am 23 and I started off with foot fetish porn at age 13 which escalated into bdsm, humiliation, femdom, ballistic, and ended up with me pretending to be a girls dog. So my conclusion this far is that I will always find feet attractive because I liked feet before I watched porn, but I will not give it as much attention as I used to because there is much more you can do with a vagina or a girls mouths and boobs and breasts. You might think well yeah logically that makes sense but my brain isn't aroused to it. Your brain will realize that after you lay off the porn masturbation and orgasm for quiete some time. Now I don't even have too many fantasies and really get aroused only when seeing real women or flirting with them/ touching them. If you have any questions I'm me, I would love to help man. I was a wrestler in school, dominant in life
And everything and hated that I was so submissive in the bedroom. Now I am a lot more
And not really even submissive. I'm also a virgin btw but I want to hold my seed for at least 6 months before I try to have vaginal intercourse. Right now I feel like I'm in a flatline ( 2 days since I got that blowjob). Now does that count as pmo or can I keep
Counting my days? Oh and btw wet dreams slowed me down but I found that doing kegel
Exercises stopped me fr having them because they strengthened the Enid
Muscles. I would also work out, eat healthy and meditate. Every day! Hope to hear from you soon man! We need to be over women not under feet!

Updates and apologies!

May as well come clean, I had a total relapse not long after posting here. I thought (arrogantly perhaps) that if I really set my mind to it, I would find it easy. Sadly I then found chat rooms, where I could speak to people openly about my fetishes, and surprisingly got a lot of responses. This made it harder, but I'm not back on track, tomorrow is a new day and this time I hope I'll do it!

@ Cassius - Feel bad for taking so long to reply so sorry mate. You were totally right too, I thought why not masturbate, it was over straight sex and I did it normal, felt great afterwards. But then I found myself fantasizing about the other stuff more and more again, which caused relapse. I think I am going to have to go cold turkey, because I think otherwise it will just keep happening!

@ Kimmou & Freedom - In honesty anal has never been a turn on for me, even during the great times where i'm feeling turned on by sex not fetishes anal just does nothing for me, so luckily that's one thing I don't have to contend with!

@ Spiritualhealing1988 - Seems like we too have loads in common! If you're 1988 is your date of birth, you're also only 3 years older than me! You're doing awesome mate, gives me a bit more hope that I can get somewhere with this. I want so badly to be turned on by stuff and love it all.. but just can't! I may be wrong but I think it may also be part psychological, i've got to a stage now where I think/know I wont get an erection, so I panic which makes it much worse!

So my plan at the moment is to try do a set period that isn't too long, and go completely cold turkey. After that allow myself ONE 'cheat', as long as it's in the normal way, and not over fetishes.

I know this isn't ideal but I think for now it's the lesser of two evils, if I try quit forever i'm pretty sure i'll relapse, at least this way I can try beating the porn side totally, then work on the rest!

Thanks for your messages, it does mean a lot that people are in the same boat!

So once again,


A chaser

Is when you have sex and for the next two weeks your brain is rebalancing so your constantly nagged by erotic thoughts wanting you to find the next better thing for a more explosive orgasm. Following that path is what leads to ed

I would say my secret is a multitude of things

Staying away from the computer unless it's necessary. A lot of time in nature, socializing( which I did and cuddled with a girl for a long time and had 100 percent erection a lot of the time :) other times it was 50 to 70 percent). Not thinking about my erection helps, not testing to see of I have recovered. Bein in my heart instead of my body. No porn o or m of course. Also red x technique then replace the thought with something positive. Seeing how unnatural the fetish is by examining it and coming to reality. Exercise meditation eating healthy. That's pretty much it.

Spiritual healing you are

Spiritual healing you are doing awesome! Hope I can do as well as you are! My problem is as I've said a couple of girl friends who although they don't know of my fetishes, unknowingly pander to them! E.g a girl who says I'm her toilet!!

Its hard when they text me things which I find erotic, not to start texting them back about it!

Also I've found one week seems to be my stopping point, so if I can last the next two days I'm doing well :)


I can relate a lot from your

I can relate a lot from your story. I used to be masturbate prone position like you when i was really really young probly around 5yr-old. But then i found a way to masturbate with my hand to porn during teen year. I got a curl penis dont know if that causes it. I also have fetish like seeing girl taking poop, lick armpit...etc....Anyways after rebooting, even seeing a girl ear would turn me on so i dont think you have to worry much

Man I just relapsed to porn

Again this sucks. What I know is I don't like doing these things in real life but like watching them in porn and fantasizing. It's really bad. I am actually not gonna post on here unless I mess up after today. I am trying to quit even Internet for a while during this reboot. I'll hopefully talk to you guys in four months. Goodbye.

Fresh Start Number 42699

So once again have failed.

I keep telling myself I'm definitely sticking to it this time, but then I never do.

I'm away for a week next week, so my first milestone is from now until I get back from holidays, absoulutely no PMO, and as little fantasizing as is humanly possible. If I do this I'll push on further, I think for me baby steps is the way to go!

Once again, thanks for giving me a great place to vent & share my musings and as always,