(Marnia) A few years back, there was a husband posting here. He had been through a 12-Step sex addiction program...and 3-4 years of celibacy in his marriage. Karezza was the next step. It took him a while to get the hang of not going for orgasm, but he and his wife both loved the intimacy of it. At the time, he told me privately that karezza is "the way" for a lot of folks who have fallen into sexual addiction or porn addiction. (See Lovers' Ultimate Sex Hack: Karezza.)
Ironically, people have told me the same thing (i.e., that karezza is the answer) about women who have been sexually abused. And over the years, I've seen that karezza can indeed work wonders in both situations. He was right. Karezza really *is* for people who love sex...lots of it. Too often porn creeps in because couples don't have enough loving contact. We've been trained to think that orgasm will meet all our "needs," but this simply isn't true. Committed partners, especially the men, thrive on affection and sexy touch. It's more critical to satisfaction than orgasm according to this Kinsey Institute study. If you want to let go of porn, your relationship can help. So can a visit to our sister site Your Brain on Porn.
If you are the partner of an addict, read this.
If erections are sluggish (not unusual at first, if someone wires to highspeed porn at an early age), explore "soft-entry": Does soft entry work?
In these videos, young men discuss the use of karezza during recovery from PIED.
Here are some comments from men who moved from excess (in their view) to exploring karezza (after, or during, a reboot):
I cannot emphasise enough how much this has transformed my sex life. My SO and I have never been more satisfied. Incidentally, earlier, after having been on so-called hard mode (no porn, masturbation or orgasm) for 40 days, when I did orgasm through sex - it was interesting to note the profound sense of physical depletion, change in vision, mental confusion in the following couple of days. Ejaculation is harder on the body than we might think. We're so used to doing it habitually that we don't recognise the impact it has.
- (Karezza during reboot) Today my girlfriend and I engaged in intercourse. A couple of things to note.
- being 47 days in, I found myself very horny for the past week. Nothing major, just generally refreshed.
- My girlfriend knows I'm doing NoFap to cure PMO addiction as well as ED. Which makes me very comfortable.
- About 3 weeks ago I climaxed during sex...only after about 10 seconds!
So yes, the factors that occurred, I noticed when we got down to business, I was ready, not 100 percent hard. But definitely enough to get things going. Then, about a minute in, I could feel myself ready to finish! I pulled out, breathed deeply for 5 seconds or so...and then carried on, performing kegel like actions throughout.......(Bear in mind this was without protection so I was getting the full feeling!)
The result? Possible NSFW......For the first time during sex...actual sex, my girlfriend climaxed! She was amazed, it had never happened like that, not only once, but 3 times! the whole time my little man stayed happy and just kept on giving.
It gets better, after 40 minutes, she tells me she's completely satisfied, and doesn't want to ruin my nofap reboot...as sex without orgasm can be a real help! Overall a complete success. NOT ONE SLIGHT PAIN or any evidence of blueballs.
What I suggest: DAILY EXERCISE, EVEN SHORT SMALL EXERCISES, TO MAKE YOU FEEL ON FORM AND ALERT. KEGEL EXERCISES TO STRENGTHEN ERECTIONS/PRESERVE ORGASM. CONFIDENCE IS A MUST, make sure you're comfortable with everything. AND FINALLY DO NOT FAP. I suggest K9 web protection
It dawned on me, that I really want to return to strong erections....I want it so bad that when my brain wants to look at porn, I now have the ability to say...."Hell no!" Every thing's good at the moment, think of how it would affect me. If you want success you need to earn it. This isn't a walk in the park....after 2 years of trying, I know!
(sender) Sometimes, when we're together, my wife and I go overboard and Karezza turns into fucking with orgasms. At that point, we're both enjoying it, so it's not a problem. But afterwards, like for the next few days, I wind up with a wicked chaser. I'm back in a place where I am thinking about sex like I did when I was using porn. But I don't like that feeling anymore. I don't like the way it causes me to rationalize, the feelings of urgency around getting off, and the way it distorts my perception of my wife (that I want to use her for my pleasure). I much prefer the feeling of balance I have now to the extreme, exciting, exhausting high highs and low lows.
It's not that I can't relate to those feelings, I totally can. It's just that I don't enjoy them anymore. Prior to quitting porn, I couldn't remember a time when I didn't feel that way, so this is one of the surprises for me after having some months of recovery under my belt. If someone had told (and convinced) me that I'd feel this good if I gave up porn, I'd probably have done it long ago. But like most, I didn't even consider giving up porn until I discovered that it was causing my ED issues.
The fact that I don't enjoy those feelings anymore makes it a lot easier to stay porn-free. I had very strong attachments to some of my porn material, watching it over and over; just loving it. But when I think about that stuff now, it seems kind of ridiculous or even comical. That it's not how real people naturally behave when they are loving each other; not even close.
- I've recovered from porn and have learned a ton about myself over the recovery period. Decreased orgasm satisfaction can come from porn and overstimulation. Porn starts as a high, and then as it isn't as good. You look for better porn. Soon, you are looking at dozens of things trying to find the "right" one to finish. Finally, you hit the porn as a habit, but need to coax yourself to finish. I tried dropping to masturbation only and it was no help. My body was too used to the stimulus of porn with sounds and pictures. My brain was completely bored. Finally I dope -slapped myself and said, "What the hell are you doing? It's now a habit, and all that matters is an orgasm—which ends up making you feel like crap anyway." I'm an advocate of shutting it all down. No P M or O. The only exception is if activity is with a living and breathing female. Then, doing bonding activities will help the recovery. The result for me (now that I've rebooted): High levels of arousal with a real female, and an orgasm that damn near made me pass out. I wasn't even trying for orgasm, it just happened. Felt like I was 20 again. In my case, I am choosing to avoid orgasm as much as possible, I find karezza more satisfying. When I first started karezza, my brain was confused. I had a hard time retraining myself that closeness with my wife didn't have to be about the finish line. The first time we did it, it was too intense (no O, but felt too much like regular sex).
Now six weeks and a few conversations later it is really changing. The most amazing aspect for me has been learning about the movement of sexual energy between my wife and I. If I hold her breast and she holds the tip of my penis, I can feel energy moving from my groin through my penis. It is a very dramatic feeling. My wife says she feels it through her arm and can tell when my hand moves on her body (and the energy drops). We have a long way to go, but the experience has been great. We are closer than we have been for years. The emotional connection is amazing. Never is a million years would I have expected my journey in life to head this way. Amazing experience. Porn is a tough thing for women to compete with once a man is addicted. What I learned here was to find something better than porn: karezza. Karezza is amazing and brings couples back together (but both parties must want to do it). There are many reasons couples separate. In my case my wife was ill for a number of years so our sex lives stopped. Later my wife admitted sex was too much pressure. After trying karezza I actually saw her point. Now we can't keep our hands off of each other (in a bonding and comforting way). By not orgasming and avoid porn, men also humanize women, meaning they look at their eyes before their chest. I noticed this very early in my recovery many months ago. I started having real conversations with women and started to develop some great female friends. That didn't happen as much previously (and I had no idea why). This is a piece that people recovering don't always recognize. Porn really creates a terrible image of woman (it treats them as pure sexual objects). When men start to recognize them as equals with qualities that men don't always possess (such as emotional depth), they turn into great friends and valued peers.
Fading fetishes Prior to quitting porn, I had indulged in some pretty unpleasant fantasies. I was worried that I had somehow permanently linked sexual arousal to these unsavory behaviors I was fantasizing about. I required these fantasies to become aroused and orgasm during sex with my wife. I couldn't penetrate her face to face; I think it was too hard for me to project her into the fantasies that way. Intuitively I think I understood this, but it was impossible to change while I was using porn.
No porn, no fap and adding Karezza with my wife; those three things caused the fantasies to lose their power. Now my wife and I make love in a variety of positions, mostly face to face. That transition took a few weeks for me. I was shocked and relieved at how quickly my sexual response rewired. Some of those fantasies were formed in my early teen years, so I was pretty convinced they were either permanent, or would take a long time to overcome.I don't know if my experience is typical.
- Well, today marks 50 days of PM Freedom. (Addicted to porn off / on for at least 40 years. That last 18 months high speed internet porn has been my downfall, and kept me more connected to porn than at any other time during my life. The result was ED.) Unbelievable, no porn or masturbation at all!! I have orgasmed 3 times, but that was while making love with my wife. Today marks the third time my wife and I have "tried" Karezza. Each time I think we're getting "better" at it, whatever "better" means. I think it is one of those learn as you go processes. Being 53 and 51, we're finding that "Old Farts" (don't tell my wife I said that) can learn new tricks, but old habits can be difficult to break - such as the desire to want to orgasm, or thinking that we need to orgasm to fully experience the "Joy of Sex." So we both had an orgasm today. We are really enjoying the process of relearning and enjoying each other's bodies. When I was entangled with viewing porn, I failed to see the beauty of my wife's body because I was erroneously comparing her to the manufactured bodies of these women in the porn industry. This afternoon we again just took our time and enjoyed each other's caresses and kisses. Concerning my ED problems of the past - thanks to being PM free for 50 days, I was able to maintain my erection throughout our 35-40 minutes session. It was not completely hard the whole time, but would "come and go" throughout our time together. In my pre-PMO days over the last 18 months or so, it was extremely difficult to at times get an erection, and if I did, it was very difficult to maintain an erection. I know having sex "only" 3 times over the last 50 days probably doesn't sound like much, but the quality of our lovemaking has tremendously improved. I think we both want more intimacy, but we need to work on finding balance between work and rest, so we can make the time to enjoy each other. I am enjoying the fact that my daily life is not consumed with thoughts of "I need sex in order to survive!" The bottom line for me: Sex is not my most important need that I have - relationships are the most important need(s). Sex is one of the bonuses that we get in life. Sex should not define who I am as a person. Unfortunately, I lived so much of my life thinking that sex and how I viewed my sexual prowess defined me as a man.
- I am in a NoFap reboot, so I've gone 28 days without masturbating, though I am still keeping up regular sex with my wife.
18 days ago, after being reading some materials about orgasms and the post orgasm hangover and realizing, I was having some of the symptoms, I decided to give sex without orgasm a try.
So, maybe partially because of the reboot from porn addiction and lack of masturbation, and partially from not having orgasms, the last 3 sexual experiences between my wife and I have been the best ever. We've been focusing on slow sex without goals and it has been transcendent.
Not sure we're both ready for true karezza with the penetration and no movement, but we may be getting close. She's 8 days out from her last orgasm.
But last night, after about 30-35 minutes of missionary, and spooning, we moved into cowgirl and almost immediately, I felt this amazing rush where it felt like I was having the feeling of an orgasm, though it was only about 60% as strong, but the plusses were that it wasn't just focused in my penis, it was my entire body, and it lasted for several minutes. There was no ejaculation. Been having sex for 20 years, and I have never experienced anything like it.
Afterwards, I didn't have any of the typical post-orgasm feelings, I just felt amazing. I wanted to reward her in any way I could for giving me the most amazing orgasm. http://w3.reddit.com/r/karezza/comments/1tqnhy/did_i_have_a_valley_orgasm/
- I've stuck with nofap and keeping the bonding non-sexual. Finally, last night we tried karezza for the first time and it was amazing! I could not believe when I looked at the clock and it had been over an hour! Also, I was surprised that I didn't feel the need to orgasm and loved holding her afterwards, feeling a warmth and comfort just being with her. My wife did want to orgasm though, which I was perfectly fine with. I felt so in control the entire time she came and was able to enjoy every moment focussing on her, which made it so special. I felt so energized this morning, what an awesome life experience.
Knowing that karezza is on the menu will make the 90 day no-fap much more enjoyable for us both I think. I am hooked, it's just simply better.
- Karezza has been one of the most recent "gifts" of [sex addiction] recovery for me, and it is a big one. Our exploration of karezza has been like a rebirth in our relationship. We have been together for 20 years, but the last few weeks have been like finding light at the end of a long dark tunnel. It is really cool. As for me, I have not had an orgasm for two months now, and only one in the past three. No issues here either. The one I had back in July was quite aggravating. It came on quickly and unexpectedly. It will happen occasionally, I am sure, but it was far from pleasant. I was quite aggravated actually as it brought an end to the fun and was messy and all that..... The longer I go, the less I miss orgasm and the less I want to have one as well. I love the feeling of becoming minimally aroused and having it gently taper off towards the end of the session, to be replaced by an inner calming. We cuddle and kiss nightly. We have moved on from scheduling intercourse to me simply asking if she would like to connect. I only do this when it feels right at the time. Some nights I think we are just not with it and simple hugging and caressing seems more appropriate. We both agree this has been wonderful for our marriage! Update the following year: I would have to say we are pretty much settled in to our new lifestyle now. We are closer than we have ever been. We are more affectionate and more openly in love! We played around with frequency of intercourse and find that we gravitate more towards the weekends, although we cuddle and caress nightly. We are both simply more relaxed on the weekends and find this is what we naturally gravitate to. Bonding that includes intercourse is VERY fluid, non goal oriented, and wonderful! We have adopted a mindset of if an orgasm happens, it happens. We are aware of the changes that happen after an orgasm, so we definitely avoid it. It took me longer to get used to this. I had a terrible time September through mid November, but have gotten over that hump and have not ejaculated since mid November. I have not masturbated since last summer. My wife has had a couple of small orgasms, but no big issues following them. I attribute that to our ongoing bonding behaviors... No issues with not ejaculating. I found that when you do not want to ejaculate, it is really a pain when it happens! It brings all the fun to a halt and there is now a mess to clean up. It is really a bummer! I found that once I fully absorbed that mindset, avoiding ejaculation was much, much easier. I also find that I am separating orgasm from ejaculation now. As I relax more and more into this, I am discovering exquisite feelings that I had never noticed before. Later update: I found this site about 15 months ago. In this time, the following changes have occurred in my marriage and my life: 1. My wife and I resumed having sexual intercourse after 4 plus years of celibate marriage 2. I have not masturbated in almost one year. For many months before that, I did it ritually and maybe once per month in a misguided belief that the pipes needed to be cleaned. I have absolutely no desire to masturbate. 3. I have not ejaculated in 7 months. I no longer have any desire to ejaculate, even if I get overheated during intercourse. 4. My wife and I engage in daily bonding behaviors, our marriage is stronger and we are happier than we have been in years!! 5. I feel a profound pride in overcoming my sexual issues. I am happier than I have ever been. 6. We have eliminated traditional foreplay from our bedroom. It is simply not necessary. Life is not perfect of course, but so much BS has been removed from our marriage by the simple removal of porn / lust for other women / masturbation (especially to fantasies of other women). Discovering Karezza has added immensely to the foundation we had already established. We have sex more often, it is infinitely more satisfying and has brought us closer together. Sex is relaxing and stress free. Neither of us has orgasms. Neither of us miss it. Less than 1 year ago I wondered what life could possibly be like without orgasm. Would I miss it? Would it be difficult to achieve? Would I miss all the foreplay? I can tell you, once we discovered the joys of intercourse without orgasm, it became extremely aggravating for me to have one. That took only a couple of months to achieve that mindset. We simply continued working on turning down the heat and throwing out the old techniques, and now I have no issues or worries about ejaculating.
As a 34 year old married father of three, I imagine I am in a different demographic than many on here. I was a virgin until I married at 26 years of age. My virginity was due to having grown up in a strict religious home. We didn't talk about sex or sexuality much in my home growing up. Silence about sex is in itself a form of sexual shaming to a child. I remember talking with my Dad as a teenager and trying to broach the subject of masturbation with him. He said "until you get married, your penis is for peeing and nothing else." And that was about the extent of our talks about sex.
I have masturbated almost daily since I was 12, and viewed pornography since I was 19. In my early 20's, though a virgin, I was obsessed with sex. I married the hottest woman I knew. She was also a virgin. We married each other for all the wrong reasons. Going on 9 years together I can say our marriage has been very difficult, but has been the most amazing, enriching part of my life. (for the other cold shower enthusiasts, my marriage has been like cold shower. Difficult, uncomfortable, and life changing in all the right ways.)
I never considered my pornography use or masturbation an addiction. Typically I would view pornography 2-3 times a week, and masturbate 3-4 times a week. My wife and I typically have had sex about 1-2 times a week. This lifestyle seemed dangerously sustainable. I didn't experience ED or some other symptoms commonly associated with porn use. My wife did not like that I viewed porn, or masturbated. But it was not a secret from her (although we didn't talk regularly about it.) We are both in counseling for our marriage, and we had decided to put the topic on the back burner for now.
Then in December I read "The Brain that Changes Itself" by Norman Doidge. This book really changed convinced me of the harm of porn to my reward circuitry. It made so much sense that I stopped viewing porn immediately (December 24th.) Two weeks later I found no-fap and was intrigued by the social and motivational benefits of stopping masturbating that guys reported. I told my wife that I wanted to do a 90 day sex fast, during which I would be abstaining from all porn and masturbation as well.
That was 50 days ago. Our "no-sex" fast has turned into a "no-orgasm " fast, as we have begun to practice Karezza together. The benefits have been amazing. I have had a few flat lining streaks, particularly in the first 3 weeks, each lasting about 3-4 days. Here are some benefits I have experienced:
1.) Improved attention span: I am working on my college degree online, and my ability to read and study boring subjects has greatly improved. Before I was restless and easily distracted after only 10-15 minutes of studying. Now I can read and study for long periods of time and remain focused.
2.) Music and Food are more enjoyable.
3.) Social Skills: I work in sales and meet 3-4 new people each day. I have felt my confidence go through the roof. I am no longer bothered when the customer and I aren't on the same page, or if they think my pricing is too high. Keeping a good connection with the customer and having confident body language has been much easier. I am sure this parallels many of your experiences with your attempts to socialize better with women.
4.) Mindfulness-- I have found a vast improvement in my ability to stay in the present moment, and quite my racing mind. I can sit with uncomfortable emotions (shame, fear) without the need to distract and cope. I can be in a conversation with my wife, children, friends etc... and really be present. My wife has said that I seem much more authentic, real and attractive.
5.) Sexual Energy-- While not being overwhelmed with the feelings of insatiated lust, I have far more sexual energy. It is hard to describe, but I feel like much more of a sexual being even though I am not satiating myself through ejaculation. I am constantly attracted to my wife, and want to be intimate with her in non-orgasmic ways (karezza) every day. But it is an energy that I feel like I am in control of, and that is at my disposal for the goals I want, such as connection with my wife, and motivation in other areas of life.
I had it all wrong...
I had known something was wrong for quite some time. We both thought that porn and masturbation were pretty normal, and that orgasm was definitely normal (and good). But sex with my wife had become routine. It didn't matter that I still find her very attractive after almost 20 years of marriage. In order to be able to perform sexually, have and maintain an erection, and enjoy the feeling of sex, I had needed to watch porn with her, smoke marijuana and fantasize actively during the sex act which normally lasted around 20 minutes consisting of the same oral sex, the same positions, mechanical in-and-out, and usually resulted in an orgasm for her and always an ejaculation for me. In spite of that, I still thought it was pretty good and I couldn't understand why she didn't want to do that more than once a week (and often only every other week). Even though I looked forward to our sex dates, I usually felt somewhat apprehensive when they approached. What if I couldn't perform even with all the extra sex aids I was requiring?
I was judging myself pretty harshly for needing the pot, porn and especially the fantasies which mostly focused on having sex with other (inappropriate) people. Given my limited understanding of things at that time, I believed that the fantasies were the problem; what I thought I needed was to get healthier fantasies! I laugh about that now, but I really didn't know better.
For the past few weeks, we've been reading from Cupid's Poisoned Arrow to each other every night. And we've been trying karezza with what we've learned so far. This weekend we had a really nice breakthrough. Things started nice and slow, with lots of generous light touching and kissing. When we got to gentle penetration, that lasted for about an hour. We were both really enjoying the feeling of being inside each other and present with ourselves and each other. So I asked her if she wanted to stop, and she said, "no, I want to keep going"! That was a first. She said she couldn't remember ever being that wet. Erection was effortless, and all without artificial chemical, visual or mental stimulation. And no orgasms!
We have a lot to learn yet, but we're enjoying the journey. She said today that she is really looking forward to making love with me all evening tomorrow, on a weeknight! That's another first. Needless to say, we are feeling much closer, our moods are both more positive and there is almost no emotional friction. That's an amazing turnaround in only a few weeks.
From this vantage point, passing on a few 10-second orgasms seems like a small price to pay for all of that!
- This video explains how karezza can fit into porn recovery, even for those who hope to return to conventional sex:
My SO knew about my PMO habits for a long time, though neither of us thought of it as an addiction. I told her about my discovery that it is an addiction (courtesy the YBOP TEDx video) and my subsequent decision to go no PM shortly after I started on this nofap trip, and she has been quite supportive of me.
The impression I got from these videos was that it would be good to wean myself off the addiction to O as well while I am trying to get off fap. There was also the real possibility that I would substitute my SO for my hand, and this I didn't want to happen! So we started doing /r/karezza as well. And it has been ... incredible. One month into this new lifestyle, we feel more in love with each other than we can remember (and we have been together for quite a number of years). I heartily recommend this.
I actually first encountered the idea of Karezza on yourbrainonporn.com after discovering I was addicted to porn. As I was recovering I began to learn more and more about the benefits and the relationship longevity associated with Karezza and I told my girlfriend about it as soon as I learned more about it. I love my girlfriend with all of my heart and want to be with her forever, so I was hoping she would want to try this with me, and she did. Initially it took some practice, but after half a year of learning we feel that we have finally mastered it.
However, throughout this half a year of practice, I feel like I have definitely expanded my knowledge the most with your videos that you have posted on youtube. I showed them to my girlfriend and we were happy to discover that we already do pretty much all of the bonding behaviors you mention in the videos. I never have any issues with going over the top, but as I mentioned above, the only problem I have encountered in my mind is recurring wet dreams. I was hoping that wet dreams might have a shorter recovery period from the hangover, compared to a conscious orgasm during intercourse. Although it is very understandable that somethings remain undiscovered to this point, as most couples are not even aware that orgasm is what drives them apart.
I am just glad to have discovered the secret ingredient to a relationship that has the potential to last a life time. My girlfriend and I are only 21, but I am confident with this technique, I will have the opportunity to grow old with this woman. Thanks for all that you have done. You are a revolutionary who is spreading the word on something so positive, in a world filled with negatives.
I am a guy in my mid thirties, and I have been doing P and worse for getting my MO fixes, for years. Today I am 32 days off P/M. I saw the YBOP TEDx video on December 11/12, and it helped me realize that I am addicted. I had all the symptoms. That was a rude shock! So I decided to pull myself up and stop the nonsense. Today marks 32 days since I watched P or did M.
I started out flatlining, but then the urges hit after 10 days or so. I was able to ride that phase out, and now I am flatlining again. I also have morning wood, after years of not having it -- I had thought that I had lost it for ever :).
I have a lovely SO of long standing. She knew about my propensity towards P/M, but she thought (and so did I) that it was just a "guy thing" . Once I told her the YBOP story and my intention to rid myself of this drain on my wellbeing and our happiness, she said she would see me through this. Thus started our journey towards an addiction-free me.
From my understanding of the YBOP videos and related literature, frequent Os are not good for the reboot process. So we decided to take up /r/karezza as well, to help me get back on track. And it has been wonderful. We have bonded like we have never before in recent times. It is almost like we are again a couple of teenagers loving each other with our whole selves. And there have been no fights during this whole month; each time some disagreement popped up (and these have been less than the fingers on one hand), one of us would pull back and put the conflict in perspective. Result: no fighting, more love.
On to other benefits of the new lifestyle: I am much more alert than usual. I need much less sleep than before. Indeed for a few days I couldn't sleep for more than four hours or so before I would be wide awake. This has passed, and I now get six to seven hours of sleep and remain wide awake when I am not sleeping. This is in contrast to my self a month ago, when I would feel drowsy in the afternoons (and other boring times). Now I couldn't sleep in the daytime even if I wanted to!
Since I am not looking for a potential mate, I do not look at women in "that" way. So I do not find that other women are more or less attractive now than they were before. I was a confident guy before I started on this, and I haven't noticed any difference in that aspect either. The most difference I see is in the amount of "productive" time -- with a sleep-free, clear mind -- that I have now, as compared to previously.
I intend to keep this going, and not go back to my previous lifestyle. Wish me luck, and Ask Me Anything!
- (HOCD) My first step here was eliminating porn, which I've done successfully for about 110 days now. Then I sought to stop masturbating, which was a lot harder to do, although I've been "clean" for about two weeks now from masturbating. Finally, tonight I told my girlfriend I wouldn't be orgasming. She was a little surprised at first, although I had talked about trying Karezza before. So she did have an idea about what it's all about.
My impetus to finally give Karezza a shot with my girlfriend was another one of my orgasm "benders" which I've discussed on here before. I had 11 orgasms in 6 days, and I just felt like crap. I wasn't sleeping, I had that sorta tired, unmotivated, blah feeling. My attitude toward my girlfriend was one of total indifference. HOCD was bad again, and really bothering me.
So tonight we gave it a shot. It was fantastic, and she loved it, which is a relief to me. We went slow, tried a variety of positions, and just enjoyed ourselves in a very relaxed and sensual way. I was a little surprised at how I was able to keep from orgasming and just find a "zone" where I felt good and not like I was escalating. I sorta went back and forth from this really intense NEED for her, and then settling back down into just enjoying the sensations. I was really surprised to look at the clock and discover we'd been doing it for almost an hour. I really didn't notice time fly by.
Right afterward we went to dinner with a couple friends of ours. In the car on the way, we were so touchy and amorous. We were both just feeling "WOW" about the whole experience. I felt fantastic. I was quick witted, charming, focused at dinner. I just felt "on my game." My social anxiety and feeling of social awkwardness were very low. I felt confident.
We came home and cuddled for about another 30 minutes before she had to go home. I showed her the "orgasm v. performance" video that Marina posted and she was very intrigued by it. I was hesitant to change our love-making style, and worried about how she would react to it, if she would like it as much. But her response has been great, she seemed to really really enjoy it.
I went from masturbating all the time since maybe 10 years old, to not having masturbated in almost a year, and not missing it a bit. The only way I could do this, was because of Karezza and daily bonding with my wife. The bonding we do, like 30 to 60 minutes a day, is the highlight of my day and makes everything else so much brighter. I have no interest in masturbation or porn anymore.
The best thing about Karezza is that you aren't trying to go somewhere. You are already successful when you two get together in penis in vagina time it's already a success. No need to go anywhere, or meet anyone's metrics.
I find this "Karezza philosophy" becoming more of a core of my life. And no wonder. Isn't the sex drive fundamental to human beings? As you grow into not moving somewhere else all the time, and as your mind becomes steeped in that oxytocin chemistry, your satisfaction with where you are skyrockets. You may still want to move somewhere or do something else but it isn't dissatisfaction that drives you.
On a practical note, the more cuddling you do, and the more Karezza, the easier it is to quit masturbation and porn. It becomes dead easy when this comes alive in your life. There is no feeling of lack anymore in your sex life. Masturbation serves no purpose anymore.
- After 5 weeks of no porn and shifting to making love without the goal of orgasm, I'm happy to report my struggles with delayed ejaculation are over. For me it was simply a matter of 1) stop using porn and 2) start making love without worrying about having an orgasm. I seem to easily reach orgasm at a frequency of about once a week or so. Learning about brain plasticity has made me confident that I can learn just about anything—even emotional and sexual intimacy. I'm practicing mindfulness and acceptance in my relationship and I find this is helping me improve in these areas.
- (Anonymous) By the way, my girlfriend and I tried karezza and we both loved the experience. We were feeling more connected and in love.
- [Rebooting addict] Day one I was very tempted to watch porn, same on day two. I then decided to tell my girlfriend the whole problem. She was very understanding and said she would help. If I feel I can't help but look at porn when alone I will call her instead. We did have sex, very slow and with no orgasm. It seemed weird, but not as difficlut as I imagined. Day Three, I felt energized in the morning when I went outside, things even seemed a little sharper, this could just be my imagination. Day Four, we again had sex but with no orgasm. We just sort of stopped at one point until my erection faded. I'm home alone today on the computer but have no real inclination to watch porn; there is too much to lose by doing so. I have seemed to have been in a more balanced mood after four days of having sex but not ejaculating. I think sex without orgasm is totally keeping my mind away from porn although it is early days. My girlfriend is amazingly supportive. I think she enjoys it too.
- (recovering porn user on Reddit) It's working out great. Not releasing my sperm or semen appears to have given me inner peace and strength. I am reusing my vital bodily fluids rather than discharging them through orgasm. I highly recommend this lifestyle.
(Age 62) Day 62, and a lot of changes to report. Advice to couples from our experience with "karezza". I use the word to mean loving sex without the goal oriented judgmental pressure to have orgasms. Avoiding the burnout of too many O's, (especially the man's), and eliminating the overstimulation of porn, has given us amazing sexual experiences that we've never had in our many years of marriage.
Since I very rarely have an O, we can enjoy sex for an hour or more. We have time to explore each other's turn-ons, and become very aroused and satisfied in a deeper way. If either of us have an O, the fun comes to a natural end, and the sexual energy between us diminishes. That's ok, it will return, but it's something to be aware of since that energy is involved in all kinds of personal interactions.
The post I lost last week was about spontaneously slipping into a state of meditation during karezza. The important part is that my anxiety about having and not having an O is going away. (That's why I could get relaxed enough to get into a meditative state.) My former compulsion to have at least one "normal and healthy" O a day, was an anxiety that doesn't bother me anymore. I now have too much wonderful experience to the contrary. I also no longer worry if I do have an O with my wife during rebooting. It's happened a few times voluntarily and involuntarily, but it's all part of our learning process and not a problem.
So where do I stand in my reboot now. I feel I'm almost done with restarting of my sexual life and rhythm. I still have a lot to learn, but the return of blissful meditative states during sex is a big milestone for me. I used to get that feeling often during sex, but less and less as my addiction to porn grew. When I was young I practiced Brahmacharya, as part of my yoga practice, so the control of sexual impulses is not new to me. What is new is the experience of total virility in a loving relationship. I'm sorry it took me so long to get here, but happy that I can finally share it with my wife. I'm so grateful for her loyalty and help. I couldn't do it without her.
(Age 52) I masturbated since the age of 13. But, in 1973 there was no internet nor porn available. Sometimes an old Playboy issue, but even females in catalogues (or even thought of them) made me horny. Sometimes I tried to get rid of fapping, but I never succeded.
At 30 , still being a virgin, I married my one and only wife. We´ve got five children. I still masturbated, sometimes to porn or erotic literature. Even my wife read it sometimes for arousal. Then we moved to a very remote area in this world, with no internet or TV or erotic pictures. I masturbated to ads of normal magazines from home (with some goodlooking or sexy women on it, but nothing really naked). Even the women in that country were covered with clothes mostly everywhere, and seeing a "modern" one with trousers made me horny.
Comming back to the modern world some years ago was like a shock to me. Everything was sexy and tempting. Not long after I discovered sexy images first and then porn movies on the internet. I didn't try to cheat on my wife. I just looked on the Web to get aroused an then I orgasmed for relaxing. First time it was incredible and really arousing, but then I needed longer to get O. And during intercouse with my wife I got no O at all. Even the errection I was missing. Then, even during watching porn I got weak orgasms with few sperm.
Searching for the reason for my ED I found yourbrainonporn.com and it explained everything. Having been in hospital several times for some weeks (with few possibilities for fapping) I experienced more arousal and sperm, but after three days of my old habits it was low as usual. So I decided to quit fapping 8 days ago, and I was able to live without it so far. I feel more confident, am able to look at women and smilingly look into their face. I had a nice and long karezza intercourse (without O) with my wife, me being hard quite quickly and for a long time, and my wife getting a hard orgasm as I never remember before.
The whole reason I began abstaining from porn and masturbation is because I want to maximize the quality of the sex I have with my girlfriend. I'm twenty days in, my girl and I have been practicing Karezza (she finishes, I don't), and we've been having some of the best sex we've had in our year long relationship. Whereas before I would have weaker erections and sometimes have trouble finishing, now I could fuck a hole in the hull of a submarine and I'm constantly having to flex my pelvic floor muscles to avoid finishing. Before sex was somewhat low key, now it's aggressive and intense. If you have a girlfriend, and you're hoping to improve the quality of sex, giving up porn and masturbation works. I just wanted to pass the along because I don't see it discussed much as another perk of this whole thing.
The same thing happened to me and I was so shocked by the reversal. I used to finish every time and she did half the time. Now I don't need to finish. I don't think I would have even believed that was possible before starting this recovery.
[Advice to another forum member on www.yourbrainrebalanced.com] The turning point for me was reducing ejaculation significantly. This has allowed me to care a lot more for my girlfriend. I'm pretty much always in the mood to have sex and we no longer fight. Frequent ejaculation can cause a lot of problems in relationships.
Here's another thing your boyfriend needs to realize. It's not just about quitting hardcore porn. He needs to make an effort to stop checking out girls online, in whatever form, be it pictures, videos, stories, forums, etc. He also has to reduce fantasizing as much as he can. He needs to come with terms with the fact that YOU are the only woman in his life. If he wants to give himself completely to the relationship, then he should quit this fantasy world of "hot chicks on demand" forever. The more he masturbates, watches porn, fantasizes, and desires other women, the less attraction he will feel towards you. The more he engages in those activities, the more desinterested he will become in the relationship. If he manages to reduce ejaculation to less than 5 times per month and stops checking out videos/pictures, I can assure you that the relationship will improve tremendously.
- [Annonymous] today is day 9 no PMO (porn, masturbation, orgasm) day 3 no drinking. The alcohol is something I've wanted to delete from my life for a long time and this seems like a good time. I read posts where you have cautioned people that quitting multiple addictions at once could make a relapse of PMO more likely. While I see how it could for me quitting pmo has been relatively easy. Having a poor sex life with my wife of 12 years is far worse than giving up PMO, once I knew what the problem was there was no question what I had to do, I am highly motivated and committed to becoming a better man and thanks to you and your wife I now have the tools. I told my wife what I had discovered a couple days after I found your site and started abstaining. My wife did not take it well, there were several days of horrible depression and feelings of betrayal. I'm happy to report we have made up and we are focusing on the future. We have started "intro to Karezza" i.e. spooning, caressing one another before bed and upon waking. I'm hoping it will help speed the process of reconnecting with my wife, I must say it does give me a tingle in the johnson, which at this point I take as good progress. I will be buying your wife's book and hopefully when l I am ready we can move on to more advanced Karezza.
- (studentoflove) I'm now 25. Throughout my teenage years and into my twenties, I'd masturbate to porn on a daily basis. Sometimes I'd PMO more than once a day - sometimes up to four times in a day. Writing this, I realize just how much that is! For about 10 years, the same, every day. No wonder I'm addicted! ... For about one year - before discovering yourbrainonporn - I was consciously trying to heal the urge to watch pornography. It was tough! ... [11 days after a relapse] About 4 days ago, my girlfriend and I attempted Karezza for the first time. The first experience was great. I felt the most connected I ever have during sex, with myself and with the woman. I realized that I've never had sex without the purpose and goal to orgasm, so making this simple decision to forget about orgasm, made a big difference! I was having sex to be with my girlfriend, to be with her and to love her, and to feel her lovingness. I realize that that is the true higher purpose of sex; one that I've never been open to, because the whole experience has been goal-oriented and all about "getting there." I feel more aware now, after only two karezza sessions, of the love and appreciation I feel for my girlfriend. And, I feel aware that karezza doesn't just "stop there," when the session ends. The same feeling spills over afterwards, and throughout the day, and even into the text messages we write to each other. It feels like we can have sex at any time, because it's not about performance and not based on orgasm - it's just another way of being together; an intimate conversation. I feel more alive and positive-minded after a karezza session. In conventional sex, I get so tired and sleepy, and I definitely lose interest in the woman I'm with, post-orgasm. With karezza, I do not lose interest - I am more interested, more appreciative, more open, more sensitive, etc. This decision, to forget about orgasm, is so interesting! I'm at the beginning of a new journey. I love how even the first experience has been a learning experience. Our second karezza session was more difficult. It took us longer to get into it... we joked about it. I joked about being a "horny dog" and it being difficult to slow down. We talked openly about how it is for one another, how it feels. I told her about my worry that going slowly might not be "enough" for her, and she reassured me. After this talking, we became more connected, and the session felt deeper. However, in this session we learned that learning karezza and getting better at it will take time and patience. One of the key things I'm seeing now is just how sensitive I am, without PMO/MO, and without orgasm from sex. My erections are rock hard, and they feel great. I love that even the lightest touch from my girlfriend makes me feel crazy! I see when, during karezza, my mind goes into "GO, GO, GO!" mode and driven to orgasm. The urge is strong. So, in the next few sessions I'm going to really focus on slowing down as much as I can. I feel I'm learning things about lovemaking, definitely. There were times before starting karezza, where I felt like I didn't have the energy for sex. I wondered what was wrong with me. I feel I'm seeing now that it's to do with orgasm and the changes in the brain. Now I'm not having orgasm, sex feels smooth and easy, and we're just enjoying each other. I think I'm *enjoying* sex, for the first time! I'm learning about "sensation vs. stimulation." I've never been open to sensation, but with karezza and abstaining from orgasm, I feel that for the first time I'm open to experiencing just how pleasurable it is! Even just a soft stroke across the skin can feel amazing. I notice that the more present I am, the more pleasurable the experience is. My relationship with my girlfriend already feels stronger after having just 3 karezza sessions. I think I'll recover more quickly too. I feel gratitude to receive my girlfriend's loving touch, and her kindness and warmth. Karezza is like the opposite to the porn addiction thing, so I feel it will really help me to reboot *for good* this time, and fully heal. I've been struggling to fully reboot and get this handled for good, for what feels like a long time! Read entire blog
- Found this material six years ago. Six months ago, I finally broke the porn/orgasm habit and have fallen deeply in love with my wife, really for the first time. We're like teenagers all of a sudden, and are able to have intimacy and sex now that was simply unheard of before. I know you have heard a lot of this before from others. It is remarkable how wonderful life is without the big O to get in the way. I also accept that I am an addict. Each day that goes by I think about porn less and less to the degree that now I hardly think about it at all, and my fantasies have become about my wife and what we do together. The thought of watching two other people having sex is no longer appealing. I still find my old brain asking if i can remember the names of some of the actresses I used to like watching. I know this is a trigger and I just have to get by - this was a big deal to begin with - but now it lasts a few seconds. I still look at my wife occasionally as she is undressing as if I were on a porn site and am flicking to another page in search of something new. It only lasts a few seconds now - but it is still there and there is no point in denying it. I have not raised the issue of my porn past with my wife. I'm not ready to do that yet. I want to wait until I have been a whole year. Right now I'm not even sure if I ever want to. I'm on the verge of it occasionally. I know I must but I am still feeling vulnerable. I think the most important thing I would pass on is that people confuse karezza with regular sex. Regular sex is not the same as karezza. It's not even in the same league. The example I give you is this: we make love whilst looking at each other. The eyes and the face are the most erotic things. We never would have done that with regular sex. Regular sex is about getting hot. I would not describe our sex as hot even though I can achieve a hardness that was simply unattainable before, and my wife loves that. She loves the effect she has on me and I love the effect I have on her - but it ebbs and flows. We laugh a lot more. Sometimes sex is great, and sometimes it just doesn't work out and we accept that. I still fear the not being able to get hard, but it is getting less and less as I realise that that was all about visual sex which porn addiction brings with it. I am also much more comfortable around other women because I am not looking for their acceptance anymore. It takes a hell of a lot of energy to fuel the porn addiction, and when you let it go you realise just how crazy it made you. There is a line on the karezza blog by someone saying - "Will I get bored?" That's porn talking. Bored? You must be joking. We've discovered that our sex lasts on average 3 to 4 times longer, has a very definite beginning and end. Is indescribably intense and wonderful, is a lot slower and more gentle (though it can get much more animal and rough than it ever did, and that is amazing because the flow of the moment takes you by surprise). Also, we both know when it's over. It often ends with an embrace and furious kissing. But there's none of that getting up straight afterwards. We lie together and talk, but the moment has passed. We both are very aware of how close we get to orgasm and there have been a couple of close incidents, but we're good at telling each other, and we actually delight in the fact that we are close to the edge. Indeed that becomes a part of the experience.
- This guy is rebooting with his girlfriend using a clever idea. He can arouse her, but she may not touch his penis until he decides his reboot is complete. She has been pretty conscientious about it, but not totally consistent. (ToastedSandwich) First off on Thursday night (Day 52) I stayed over at Rachel's house. We did the usual thing of cooking at eating together which was really nice and then we watched a film. We went to bed after the film. I went up first whilst she was sorting out the cat and brushed my teeth etc and got ready for bed, and then just lay there under the covers. She finished up in the bathroom and then came into the bedroom. We chatted as she got undressed and then she jumped on me once she got as far as her underwear. It was a very nice looking matching set. She went on top and we kissed, cuddled and caressed etc with the duvet separating us. Then she got into the bed and things went a little further. Anyway, for the first 10 minutes when she was on top of me and we were holding each other close, I was rock hard. I got hard when she got into bed and then it gradually faded as I began to pleasure her. Then my attention was on her and making her feel good. It is quite one sided but then it's going to be as she isn't allowed to touch me. Back on day 17 when she did last touch me it was one sided but toward me, so I guess it balances out. It was nice but that kind of stuff is off limits for the next 21 days. It's good because I haven't tested myself without any MO in anyway and I haven't been feeling hugely sexual during the reboot, but I think that is down to the fact that I am taking it so seriously and want to do well and so I have been shunning all things sexual, including Rachel. We are still naked together but because she isn't allowed to do anything to arouse me or touch me etc, I have remained flaccid throughout most of our bedroom activities in the last 54 days. But on Thursday night I got a glimpse of easily I respond when she does do something to arouse me. I must admit I didn't touch my penis with my hand, but it certainly felt firm, it stayed firm for 10 minutes and all it took was kissing, cuddling and light touching. No heavy, direct, manual stimulation, no dirty talk, no having to look at Rachel's ass, no swapping positions or trying to force anything. It was just like my brain tuned in and BAM, I was turned on. It certainly bodes well for the future.
- I also do karezza with my partner. It's great and we bond, but I have to confess the physical pleasure is also very interesting :D. I mean I almost always get aroused and stay aroused and hard for the whole session (even though we stopped with penetration and orgasm since the performing anxiety is still there). I never saw it as a problem although I feel on the verge of orgasming a lot of times (and seen the precum too). I didn't see the bad effects afterwards though, in fact sometimes I went to work and thought about it anxious for the night to come. What I did notice was that if we would caress in the genitals for few days in a row with long sessions of my penis hard, I would get no libido suddenly...that's what led me to try out another three months to get the anxiety off and give my brain some more time to heal. I mean I get aroused most of the times, and when I don't, it's not because I didn't want to, if you know what I mean. You get aroused just by light touch outside of the genitals right? So gentle rubbing your back won't do the trick. Did you try looking in each other's eyes and just stare? That also takes you to heaven. In either case, and in spite of the effects the other days, it's great stuff to feel that for your partner heh?
- (IM1969) I didn't use Karezza when I managed my longest PM free run but I did slow things down in the bedroom and get back to cuddling. Sometimes I would just put myself in my wife and leave it there as we fell asleep. Other times it would lead to something.
- So at Day 280 I'm off Hard Mode. Background First: I'm already experienced with sex in relationships. So there was no "new" factor to the recent encounter. I have not suffered from ED or any other conditions. So I cannot comment on that.
So what did I gain from NoFap thus far? Well, last night I could actually feel the subtlety of the encounter. It was fascinating. At one point, I actually found myself consciously thinking "I don't even need to orgasm. I'm fine with just doing my thing with her." This was the first time I genuinely thought in this manner. I have done slow sex before, and even tried karezza, but those were all conscious struggles. This time, I wasn't even trying. It was just natural.
The second positive effect was that I knew that I'd be good to go for several rounds. Sure... my refractory period is a little long, so I'm not back up in 15 minutes like some. But I knew... with confidence, that I could continue. This was not the case in the past when I'd fap even just occasionally. During round two... I once again felt like I didn't need to finish to be satisfied. In fact, I did it more for her than for me, if that makes any sense.
I'm kind of tired right now, so this is not the most poignant post, but if I had to sum it all up, I'd say NoFap, when done for long periods of time, instills control in you. When you give up the porn, the edging, and the masturbation, you don't lose anything. You gain something. It was something I honestly didn't expect. For the first time... I felt in control of my sexuality. I could enjoy it on my terms. And more importantly, I was content. There was no "end goal" that I had to achieve. It was just... natural.
- Female here. I know [giving up masturbation to porn] is working for my guy when...
He can play with the kids and actually laugh.
He cries thinking about the way he's treated us.
He kisses me without wanting to gag or feeling overwhelmed.
He grabs my ass -in the grocery store!-
He says "I love you" like he understands the feeling.
He enjoys visiting family, makes them laugh, and is the life of the party!
We make love (Karezza) for two and a half hours and he tells me I can come wake him up anytime
- (emerson) I started to masturbate when I was maybe 11 and quickly found fantasies to masturbate with, in Penthouse and a book called The _______. I guess very early, maybe 4 or 5, I didn't realize it but I found sexual pleasure in domination themes. I think this is built in somehow. So when I discovered the written word and pornographic stories I gravitated to those that had an S&M component. Ditto with pornographic movies and videos although I never really got into these so much. I would use pornographic stories and read them and masturbate to these, often over an hour or two. I think this is exactly what caused me to have ED problems when I first started trying to have sex with real girls. Eventually I met my wife and she helped me through this but I continued the masturbation and written porn habit. Sex with my wife became less exciting. First, she wouldn't do the things in the stories. Second, it grew boring in any event. Third, her drive was never anywhere near mine so frequency wasn't there. I enjoyed the sex a lot but started to find that I had to introduce things like spanking into the equation. She went along but wasn't into it much. Then I'd borrow something else from the porn stories I had been reading and introduce that into our lovemaking. It wasn't very satisfying and it wasn't frequent enough and I could see this as being a huge issue as I am not a person who just puts up with something. I have to make it better, make it right, work on it. I quit this whole M and P thing about 3 or 4 weeks ago and it was easy. I think this is for several reasons. Number one, I wasn't hooked on visuals. Never cared for them, either still pix or videos. So my imagination was always more engaged and somehow this made quitting easier. Number two, and this is the biggie, I started Kerezza sex with my wife, at least the "male continence" kind. And this has given me a sense of sense of ecstasy that has made the old type of sex not even a tenth of one percent as good. She was amazed I was giving up orgasm. But I have explained to her how this is so much better that it is indescribably wonderful and I haven't given up anything, I've only received a tremendous gift. I think that if you are having big recovery issues, if you do a lot of cuddling and bonding with someone it will make it so much easier. I used to think that lying in bed with a woman without sex would be frustrating and make things worse. But the opposite is true. It makes me feel sexually satiated even if we don't have (non orgasmic in my case) intercourse at all. The focus of my sexual life has moved to her and to everything she means to me in an indescribable way and neither P nor M have any significance in this scheme of things.
- (emerson, again)
I didn't have the same issues with video porn as a lot of guys here, but I think my experience may make it a lot easier for you to reboot. This is all a great experiment because you are rewiring your brain to work along "normal" channels and nobody really knows exactly how to do this in every case or even in most cases. We're all learning.
Since I'm no expert, all I can do is share my experience and my recommendation. I think the big mistake most guys make is to avoid sexual contact during reboot. I stopped a lifelong habit of masturbation and fantasy and porn cold and I've had relatively easy time of it. I'll get to the reason in a moment, but let me give you some really quick background. I used to have occasional problems getting erect and in fact my first GF who was understanding and helpful became my most wonderful wife and was the first woman I was able to have successful intercourse with. I would masturbate frequently, once or twice a day, to erotic stories and fantasies. As life went along I would say there was some escalation in these fantasies and as my adult sex life in my marriage progressed, "ordinary" sex seemed less interesting and less rewarding. When I stopped masturbation and porn and fantasy, as I said, I had an easy time of it. And I think the key was two things.
First, I engaged in daily bonding with my wife as never before. Morning and night, probably 60 minutes or more, and lots of hand holding in between. I just gave my wife a five minute massage while she was at her desk and it felt great to me and to her. This is how I live my life now. With very frequent non-sexual contact but lots of skin to skin and snuggling, massage, stroking, etc. Most of this doesn't involve kissing or anything overtly erotic. However, there is something remarkably satisfying with this contact that made it very easy to get over what would have seemed insurmountable before: giving up fantasy and porn and masturbation.
The second part of this process is non-orgasmic sex. Having sex is the object of rebooting, having a good healthy sexual life and good healthy sexual relationships. If you are rebooting I would strongly suggest you do a lot of bonding and have a lot of non-orgasmic sex.
Some guys say, how can I have sex? I don't get an erection yet. But that is not necessary or important here. You can use soft entry and spend time even with the tip of your penis inside your woman. There is great benefit to this and you wake up a lot of feelings that are deep and amazing.
If you are lucky enough to have a girlfriend or spouse, this is the way to go, I think. Stop porn, stop masturbation, stop orgasms, but engage in daily bonding and lots of non-orgasmic slow sex whether you have an erection or not.
Guys are always measuring their success in rebooting or a sexual activity by the hardness of their erections but this is really a tragedy. Because even sex with a soft penis is sex and you can have incredible feelings without getting an erection. Anyone can get their penis inside a woman even if it isn't an erect penis, and I believe you will benefit greatly by dropping the belief that you must have a strong erection first. I think this is possibly the key to easy and successful rebooting.
If you don't have a girlfriend or spouse it is much more difficult of course. I don't know what to tell you, except that even sex and snuggling and bonding with a friend would be most helpful. I wouldn't suggest sex with a prostitute or someone casual, but this type of contact would probably help you reboot even if it isn't your lifelong love. His Karezza Journey writeup.
Emerson (months later) I am male and masturbated constantly since I was a child and I stopped completely and never missed it. Only because of intense daily bonding with my wife and a lot of Karezza. At first I was hungry and needy for her all the time, but we got over that. I go on trips for business and so forth and it's fine. No desire to masturbate at all. Karezza fixes the cravings because you no longer feel a lack of enough. It's hard to picture that at first, but it really works that way.
[Post on porn recovery forum to another married guy] Have you tried cutting out the orgasms altogether, even when you're with your wife? Previously, when I had sex with my wife it wasn't as fulfilling nor as frequent as I wanted it to be, and had the "Chaser Effect" push me towards a PMO follow-up.
Currently, my wife and I are trying Karezza (see reuniting.info), and it's been surprisingly fulfilling and stable for me. It's taken our relationship and my personal state/behavior to the next level. Granted, I've had one accidental orgasm so far (15d ago, as per badge).
I have a GF and we do have sex regularly, but I am trying to abstain from orgasm for at least 90 days. I have been with porn much longer than [I've been with] my GF so conquering the addiction is still very tough. I am actually trying to pick up karezza and anything else that just allows me to fulfill my girls needs and not have to orgasm myself until I get to 90 days.
- I think one of the most lethal things that porn does to us is to create expectations in our "real" love life that can never be met. The way pornstars love cum, for instance. Not all women love cum, in fact I'm not sure that most do. I don't have enough experience to know, but I doubt it. And the way pornstars do anal. I could go on and on. And here's how this corrupted our sex life. I suggested various activities with my lovely wife Sparkles that came (no pun intended) straight out of the porn stories I had been O'ing to. But it was always disappointing. She was okay with some of them, but it never satisfied at all. And I felt a sense of shame about it that didn't help my erections. Although we had a decent sex life relative to most people our age, I would say it wasn't that satisfying for no reason other than that I had this secret life, and was always comparing the situations in the stories I read in my secret life with my real life and real wife. And those things we tried never met the standards of the sex story fantasies. This is why I am very careful now to not read anything that can be a trigger. Even a sentence somewhere and instantly I am aware of some part of my brain recalling a situation or a story. A few posts here on this site have done that to me and I avoided reading the rest as soon as I perceived this. Always vigilant. The "Red X" can be useful sometimes. It's a great technique. Conscious fantasy versus Spontaneous Fantasy SOLUTION: I pretty much have stopped consciously entertaining or arousing myself by fantasizing, period. It feels very natural to avoid this conscious fantasy. You know, the kind where you sit there dreamily engaging in whatever sex or porn story is on your mind or your core fantasy. I've stopped that. I do of course notice "spontaneous fantasies" crossing into my consciousness but I move on quickly and give them no power. Sometimes I just watch them and they fade away after a few seconds. Sometimes they need to have their life. Especially the ones that are like, I see a woman in a tiny bikini and she is my type, and I imagine, well, I won't go there for you but you know what I mean. I watch that play out and after a few seconds it plays out and is gone. It's really easy for me to cut out the conscious fantasy and not bring the pornstar stuff into the bedroom, because I did continue having a decent sex life, had erections reliably and reached orgasm inside of Sparkles often (though often needed to masturbate to O afterwards especially in the last few years.) But it wasn't nearly as satisfying as it is now. It is amazing now and with Karezza I am learning to trust my partner, leave things to her, and see what develops, and avoid being goal oriented and focusing on the "now" and, more than that, on the "real." What a gift.
- (Slaindragon75) [Here's where he started] I feel like hell, ups and downs all day. Hardly hungry and when I am hungry I usually eat and then feel sick immediately afterwards. Also, I've been M free for three weeks, P free for two weeks and had O last night with girlfriend and then felt extremely bad about it afterwards. Now I am experiencing VERY strong sexual urges. Any sort of pleasure at all would feel fantastic. I just can't handle it. [5 weeks later] We've been doing karezza for about a week, not sure if we're doing it right or not but it's been fantastic. She has orgasms but we try to stop before I get close. Only problem, today we had some fun but I was a bit too eager and had a small orgasm. I don't feel the immense shift in my view of her like I did last time (which I'm assuming is good). But I do feel a little worried that I might have to start over with the O portion of the reboot. I feel no difference and actually I feel pretty good but still I wanted to move forward not backward. We will continue with Karezza as it's fun, but we might wait a week first. Still, I'm at five weeks without Porn.
- Also see Bodie's lengthy account of how he struggled to get his wife on board.
- (emerson) I noticed that now, if I am away (I just was) I have ZERO sexual interest. In fact I don't have erections, I don't have an interest in masturbation, and I don't fantasize. It's actually pretty cool. Now that I'm home with my honey we'll recharge the sexual proximity batteries and things will definitely change. I thought about it this week, before I even read this post, how strange it is now. I used to masturbate in hotels all the time when I was on the road. I had a masturbation and porn ritual. But I have zero interest in that any time anymore, none whatsoever. Even when I'm home I have no interest in masturbation or porn. Amazing. It took me about 18 months to get to this point but I would say I noticed it months and months ago. Just not to the extent that I do now. The brain really does change over months and months.
- Reboot, Karezza, Healed ED (A husband's account 6 months after quitting porn)
My advice: Find a girl and rewire, even if you're ashamed of ED Over and over, I see posts from guys who've been rebooting for a long, long time, and they haven't been with a girl during that time. A common sentiment is that they're not ready for sex, and they don't feel comfortable being with a girl until they are. This betrays a misunderstanding of what sex is. It's so much more than penis in vagina. You can please a woman with kisses, cuddles, fingers, tongue, hands, words and noises. I believe rewiring is essential to a reboot. I've been trying for a year, and never made so much progress as during my current streak, when I've been with three girls. They've all been super supportive. I've told them about PIED. They didn't care. They liked sleeping with me regardless. With the final two, I was eventually able to have sex without orgasm. And last week, I orgasmed with the girl I'm seeing at the moment. And I feel great. Have the hardest morning wood of my reboot, and my libido is strong. Assuming this holds up, I credit it to the weeks of rewiring I did prior to orgasming. It is never too soon to start going on dates and talking to women. Especially for those of you who are virgins. Having a girl won't magically make your PMO addiction go away, but it does make things easier. Getting a girl is something you'll want to do eventually. And guess what? You'll probably suck at this, at first. Then you'll get better, and you'll wonder why you ever thought it was hard. But start now, so you can go through the 1-3 months of learning it will take to get decent at this. Then by the time you're ready, you'll be able to get women. I was a virgin until 22, and had PIED. Didn't really have much luck with women until a few months ago. I'm age 27 now. And then, simply by trying, I went from being "bad with women" to doing pretty well and being able to attract women I liked and who are beautiful. You can do it too. If you're totally new at this, I recommend reading a few seduction materials. Just remember, you only have to take the parts you like. So if you're not interested in dating multiple women, then ignore the advice that deals with that. Pay attention to the grooming advice instead, or self-confidence, or style. I've found Mark Manson (his book models) and Nick Notas to have good advice that's devoid of the creepier side of the seduction community.Don't orgasm with a girl until you're ready. I got to the point where it felt like I was blocking myself by avoiding orgasm. But sleeping with women for a couple months beforehand helped get my body to that point where I was ready. Start now.
I'm now in my early 30s, but like most young men, I've been into porn on and off since my late teens, and masturbating about once a day on average. I've been married for ~5 years. The sex has been great and tends to happen every week or two, with some blowjobs/handjobs in between. My wife is generally amazing, but somehow I wasn't fulfilled -- for reasons that are more obvious to me now. After sex I'd often stay up and masturbate to porn a couple times, and the same after blowjobs. I'd watch porn on some other days too when I'd have to work late while she was in bed. (My libido is very high and my wife is very hot so I haven't had any performance problems or ED -- yet.
After finding /r/nofap and YBOP about two weeks ago, I stopped the porn immediately and the masturbation. I saw some great results in a few days only (no PM), feeling significantly better emotionally and physically, but a handjob & orgasm from my wife left me feeling empty again so I relapsed and masturbated afterwards again. The day after, I told my wife I intended to cut out the orgasms (no PMOs at all), and she was a bit surprised! She, like most, presumed that masturbation is a good way for men to release tension, and probably let me indulge because I'd be too high maintenance to "service" this way -- as there can never be enough (We hadn't talked about this and while I presume she knew about the porn/masturbation she never mentioned it.)
Now I've been PMO free for 7 days, and my wife and I since found out about Karezza-style sex. I did a lot of reading, she was open to the idea, and we've been experimenting daily since. It's quite amazing! For the first few days I was a bit clingy and more attached to my wife, but she finds that cute anyway I realize how empty and unhappy I felt before (in comparison) and I now feel truly fulfilled. My energy levels are higher than I ever remember them being, so is my creativity, confidence also. (Not that I felt uncreative or lacking confidence before, but reaching a new level makes me realize how bad it was relatively.)
This way of being feels very sustainable to me, and glad I found out about it now rather than later. The difficult part is that I'm away on business for a whole week, so it might be tough without the karezza hook-ups You single/younger guys out there have my utmost respect for pulling this off alone!
A wife describes the temporary use of modified karezza in her husband's porn recovery.
I'm past day 110 now, in some ways NoFap has really helped me, depression is mostly gone, less social anxiety but it's still there, also my brain fog/inability to concentrate is still terrible, some days I can barely get through a page of a book, just can't seem to process anything that's written down. I think the problem may lie in the fact that I'm still having sex regularly, I've read a lot about the 2 week orgasm cycle and I'm thinking now that it wasn't just the addiction to porn that was causing the problems, but just as much (and quite very possible MORE) the over indulgence in orgasms over a long period of time.
Me and my girlfriend have had no improvement in our sex life over these 100+ days, at times I thought things were getting better, but they just went back to 'normal' again. After I read about the orgasm cycle we decided to give it a rest for a couple of weeks, no orgasms. Crazy thing, after the 2 weeks were up the sex was amazing. I am so attracted to her body now, we make love but I don't orgasm and my sex drive stays high. Anyone in a relationship should try this, it's a great way to stay close without impeding your process, because that's what you're doing when you orgasm.
So the sex part is at least under control now, I'm hoping to start seeing other benefits from this too. Here's a great link about the cycle: http://www.realitysandwich.com/finding_peace_between_our_sheets
Coping with porn flashbacks: I like tricking my brain by replacing porn-style sex with Karezza-style sex. Slowing down the pace of the fantasy that way helps a lot. Instead of going directly for the orgasm, the brain is forced to cuddle or to give a massage, or to stop and look deeply into the person's eyes, which it can't do, because it knows that I don't really love the person, and only want them for sex. And it loses interest and drops the fantasy altogether. Other times, the slow pace of the fantasy allows me to gradually change the fantasy into something else entirely. (karenewbie)
A husband learns karezza as part of giving up porn. Read his full account.
Author Kian Victorson recommends karezza in The Boner Blog, September 2014:
Karezza, also known as „coitus reservatus“ is known as the practice of sexual activity without climaxing. This concept also appears in both Tantra and Yoga and claims to increase the pleasure of sexual activity for a variety of reasons, most notably the loss of energy that men experience after ejaculation.
In the context of this post, practicing Karezza might strengthen your ability to have erections during intercourse, if your blocks and anxieties around ED are related to ejaculating. This can especially be the case if you have been consuming porn for years or if you are worried about not reaching orgasm during penetration.
Even if the idea of Karezza might seem odd to you, just give it a try for the sake of widening your sexual horizons. If anything, you will learn to appreciate aspects of sexual contact that you haven’t appreciated before as there will be no „race towards orgasm“.
Day 21 of no PMO, Day 12 with no O. My reboot is going better than I ever imagined. I was reading Cupid's Poison Arrow last night when I came across something that made everything make sense.
Researchers began studying oxytocin’s effects on drug cravings during the 1990s, and a 1999 issue of the journal Progress in Brain Research noted that the hormone reduces withdrawal symptoms and lowers tolerance to various addictive drugs, including opiates, cocaine and alcohol.
This explains why everything is going so well and my cravings are under control. I've also noticed that I'm craving less junk food between meals too. So, what does this mean? How do you get Oxytocin? From bonding with your wife/SO. I told my wife on my 2nd day of no PMO that I was giving it up and I would need her help to fight it. I thought the best fighting method at the time would be more quickies to keep up my regular orgasms going, but that turned out to be wrong. Ever since then, we have replaced my nightly PMO sessions with time spent with her, kissing, cuddling, slow sex, and other bonding behaviors.
It's kind of a lifehack, but that's the reason I'm not having orgasms too, and that has made the effect last. When you cum, your body releases chemicals that drop your dopamine and oxytocin levels dramatically. It can take up to 2 weeks for them to fully recover. Here's a good article from Psychology Today about oxytocin and sex: "Oxytocin, Fidelity and Sex"
So far, I'm 21 days in. No flatline so far. I continue to see improvement and return of sensitivity, more and more response down below from just kissing. I keep reading people talking about how PMO relapses put them into a flatline. I'm not saying never have an orgasm again, but for now, it's working wonders. If you're in a long-term relationship, you have a secret weapon to help you beat this thing. Use it!
TL:DR Lots of cudding, slow sex, and limited orgasms greatly reduce withdrawal symptoms from porn because of oxytocin
I practice Karezza with my wife somewhat regularly. We tried to do Karezza only for a while when I first started rebooting about a year ago. In fact, the same person who told us about yourbrainonporn also told us about Karezza. We found it awkward and uncomfortable at first, but after a while we both appreciate its connecting and healing power and benefits. It's one of the things we will do sometimes even if we don't feel horny. We also started relaxing the rules sometimes lately, and let it lead to gentle love making, sometimes ending with an O for either or both of us, more often not. We have both also learned some tantric teachings and practices, but want to dive deeper into those. LINK
- I decided to have non-orgasmic sex during my reboot. By “non-orgasmic sex”, I mean 90% foreplay and M2F oral, and <10% Karezza. Choosing to have non-orgasmic sex can be a risky decision, so I’ll leave it up to you. I’ve listed the pros and cons below:
Pros of non-orgasmic sex:
i. I think it’s helpful for the reboot, as you're strengthening the neural pathways that involve attraction to real women (while letting the pathways that involve porn die)
ii. Intimacy is great for brain health and is great source of “good” dopamine
iii. Ironically, the fact that you can’t orgasm makes you a MUCH better lover – it makes you more patient and, since you can’t orgasm, you can learn to refine other skills, such as oral sex (if you’re interested, I actually have other posts on this site that detail my “sexual education” – in short, I have used the past 100 days to become much more competent in bed)
Cons of non-orgasmic sex:
i. It’s very hard to do, and it’s pretty risky. That’s why 90% + of the ‘sex’ I have is M2F oral. Although I “stick it in” from time to time, I make sure never to go for more than a minute…it’s just too risky.
ii. At first, it can be difficult to explain to a woman why you can’t orgasm (although most will understand)
iii. Did I mention that it’s hard to do?
File this under another illustration of the potential benefits of staying off PMO. I've made 3 weeks today! But it's been a tough road. I'm keenly aware of the mental impact of PMO, and the struggles during the rebooting period. It's like I can feel my prefrontal cortex and limbic system battling each other. This morning, though, something amazing happened...
Backstory as I'm still pretty new here - I'm a greybeard, began fapping to "analog" porn back before the internet even exited (yes, kids, there was a world before email). Lived through hell as a kid, and struggled w/ depression and inability to connect emotionally for most of my life. Divorced once, and now remarried. The past few years my habit was a daily ritual. Usually in the AM before getting down to work. I wasn't the type to edge for hours, usually just wanted to get it out of the way. I struggled with all the usual feelings of being emotionally depleted and shame. But I ascribe much of that to my own emotional dysfunction, and hadn't made the connection that PMO-ing might be aggrivating my struggles until beginning to read up on YBOP a few weeks back when a friend mentioned it. Told my wife last week after having about 1 1/2 weeks PMO free under my belt, and was so relieved to find that she didn't want to kick me out, but has been amazingly supportive.
What happened yesterday I was in bad shape. Hadn't slept well (maybe 3 hours or so). Wasn't feeling tempted to fap so much I was just feeling awful. In a total haze, couldn't focus on work, really struggling with wanting to crawl into a hole and hide. Made it through the day intact. When wife came home from work (I work at home), she was also drained. We just went to bed pretty soon. But I talked a little bit with her about Karezza and the reading I've been doing on it. I've really been questioning whether or not I could, or should O if and when we had sex. I've been really nervous about it and unsure. I asked her if she would be upset if I didn't O, since I had read that some people report that women actually O more when the male doesn't. She looked at me and said, "I think that's the dumbest question you've ever asked me."
What Happened This Morning I'm still kind of in shock. Early this AM she rolled over and took my hand and put it on her breast. We began cuddling and kissing and soon things progressed. Here's the amazing thing - I didn't O, and I didn't really stress about it for the first time, EVER
We experienced a kind of connection that I don't think either of us have ever really had. It wasn't all kinds of fireworks and spiritual explosions of joy. It was calmer than that, but it was still wonderful. There was a kind of peacefulness and tranquility to what we shared. For the first time in my life I actually felt satisfied. I didn't O (nor did she), and a couple of times I found myself almost wanting to, or picking up on her wanting me to sort of go in to the "old mode" of pushing myself to O. And every time I just kind of checked in w/ myself, I slowed down because something inside of me really DIDN"T want to O. It was like all the performance anxiety and stress kind of disappeared and I was able to just be in that moment.
After Effects So Far I'm feeling more focussed this morning and a lot less stressed out than I have been feeling the past few weeks. I'm still not cognitively at 100%, but I'm maybe around 75% which is a heck of a lot better than I was. I honestly don't know if I will want to continue the contact as much as I wanted to this morning when we stopped, but I'm not stressing out about it like I used to. I think the best feeling of all was that I didn't feel crashed out like I normally do post O, and as of now, I'm not feeling nearly the kind of intense cravings and unhappiness I've been struggling with recently.
I'm excited to learn more and continue on this journey. Porn is not evil, per se. But the impact it has on some of us is truly destructive. And sometimes I wish I could be the type who consume it without it comsuming me. But if the tradeoff is no porn and having this be the direction my marriage goes from here on out, I'll make it happily.
A little background to get started. I'm 28. I have been a daily masturbator since the age of 15. I have abused porn on a regular - though not daily - basis for 9 years. The sexual problems that led me to Nofap (stopping porn/masturbation) were DE and the associated death grip.
Nofap has been quite a revelation to me on so many levels. Not having had a major porn problem, I assumed the benefits would be marginal, but here is something I learnt; if you think you don't have an addiction, try stopping the activity and see what happens. In my case, a period of quite punishing withdrawal symptoms. How I imagine cold turkey from an addictive substance. This lasted for at least a month. Something was clearly profoundly affecting me neurochemically as within a 24hr period I might experience the extremes of a kind of shimmering, exultant euphoria followed by a moribund depressive blackness. It was around the month mark that I started feeling significantly better about myself and things started falling into place effortlessly; people seemed better disposed towards me, my body language improved, I started joking around at work more and generally seeing the lighter side of life.
All this was great and more than I could have hoped for but the real take-home from Nofap for me was about willpower. I've been a 10-15 a day smoker for the past decade. Whilst drinking alcohol I used to practically chain smoke. Basically the type of smoker who'd smoke it right down to the butt and then eat the ashtray. Mentally, I was a million miles off being able to expel this habit from my life. But on day 50 of Nofap I had a realisation. Why am I engaging in behavior that in no way serves my health and happiness? That is, in effect, killing me? I kicked that bullshit habit out of my life there and then, and it was easy. What I realised was that abstaining from PMO seriously strengthens your willpower. Go ask your peers if they want to quit PMO. They will look at you incredulously like you asked them if they wanted to quit breathing. This is because quitting PMO is insanely hard and the willpower required to see it through is mind-boggling. If you have a streak of any serious amount of time then you will have strong willpower because this faculty has been utilised and developed, not unlike a conditioned muscle.
So, the exciting part of this from my point of view is idea of taking back control of your life. Before the process I always knew I was deficient in essential character, but I could never figure out why. I am personally not religious but this quote from Proverbs 25:28 illustrates my point (there is enormous wisdom in all the sacred texts, even for the non-religious):
He whose spirit is without restraint is like a city that is broken down and hath no wall.
All things considered, I have had a pretty easy life. I have grown up in the Western world in a time of unparalleled prosperity. To 99% of human beings that ever lived, the conditions of my life would be considered unfathomable luxury and privilege (even though I grew up in a lower-middle-class home in the UK). I am incredibly lucky for the background I have but it is a double-edged sword. If you subscribe to the princple of Hormetism then you will accept the idea that the human biological organism responds to stress and deprivation and less well to gratification and comfort. Strength training, intermittent fasting and cold showers all stress the body, inducing positive adaptation. Junk food, a sedentary lifestyle and 5 and half hours of CoD per day will weaken you and turn you into a spineless, flaccid jellyfish. For many of us, Nofap is our very first experience of deprivation. It feels uncomfortable at first but more often than not induces positive adaptation.
I finally came to the realisation that I am the one in the driving seat. I'm no longer a victim of my thoughts or bodily urges. I am the one calling the shots. I choose what I think about and how I respond to my experiences. Having suffered from anxiety and panic attacks in the past, I now see that these were just mental avenues, and now I choose not to go down them. I feel pretty fucking good.
Benefits. Not an exhaustive list by any means:
*better voice tonality (this was noticed before quitting smoking)
*improved athletic performance. Squash, specifically. (Again, observed prior to quitting smoking and commented on by others)
*increased muscle mass
*better sex. 10x better. I now practice Karezza.
*improved eye contact
*more self respect / self-acceptance
*enhanced social abilities
*more attention from women
I intend to carry on fap free for the rest of my days. This forum has been an amazing help. I have found the humour, insight and support here invalauble.
Also, even non-addicts find the sex and romance in their unions tend to improve when they stop porn:
- My wife gave me a open "take care of yourself with porn" pass around 4 or 5 years ago. I used it, mostly daily. While I always had some fun, after a while it felt like a chore. I always preferred being with my wife. I stumbled upon NoFap and some of the other subs that go with it (Deadbedrooms in my case). I jumped right into NoFap, wrestled with it. Started changing some things and explained to my wife that honestly porn is just a methadone drip. She seems to really take notice and we are on a 1 or 2 times a week of sexytime and damn is it great.
- I always escaped with porn for similar issues - (married around the same time here), kids, work, no time for sex. But porn was always there. Just left me feeling empty and shameful. We have had sex with a little more frequency since my latest streak and feel much more connected to my wife. Porn has taken a huge toll on me and our relationship. No More!
- (Guy who recovered from ponr-induced sexual dysfunction) I found out what Intimate Sex is when i was 32 Years old. During my reboot. It is very different than horny sex. It is all about INTIMACY, about letting your self connect with the other person, about being in the present and not in the head, or in the fantasy. It is very strong powerful connection, and very satisfying.
So here comes my theory: After all these years of having either sex with yourself, or/and horny sex. you forget or maybe never leanred how to have intimate sex. Then you quit PORN completely and fall into a huge flatline, and after weeks or even months you thing "damn, i have no libido , i can not get it up with real women etc."
But it's wrong thinking. Because you still looking for horny sex. Instead, now, after the reboot, you have to start to learn to have intimate SEX. It's completely different , but believe me, there you will have no PIED anymore. You will be able to have great SEX . But you have to connect with yourself and with the other person. I really hope you understood what i write, my english might not be the best, but if oyu have questions i will try to answer them as good as i can.
I could write my story in the success forum, because i went from PIED to having great sex with my GF. But i do not look for horny sex anymore, not in the first place. I am now able to mix it, because i rewired! I have intimate sex and can add horny sex to this, and it is even more intense. But you need to learn to have intimate sex in the first place.
--Don't look for the horny sex, one night stands etc. You will be disapointed.
--But when you learn to have intimate sex it will be the greatest experience in your life, there will be no PIED anymore. (Full post)
- Also see Guys Who Gave Up Porn: On Sex and Romance.