If your making out with a girl and later find out that you have Precum

Submitted by Spiritualhealing1988 on
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Does that count as a relapse? Even if it does I'm happy because I had about 75-80% erection during the make out session. This girl wants to start a relationship but I'm taking it slow.

Are there people who make out

Are there people who make out and don't precum?

Relapse can be only PMOF. Making out and having some precum doesn't put your actions in those categories.

A 100% erection (if there is such a thing) would be a waste while making out. The poor blood vessels down there can only do so much.

Do what works best for you.

Do what works best for you. However, I don't get it. Someone fill me in. Where did this idea that guys have to wait to have sex come from? I agree entirely with developing relationships slowly. That has nothing to do with how many days a guy has been PMO free. For example, maybe you've seen someone for three months and are ready to have sex and yet for some reason PMOF the day before. These things can and thus will happen to someone. Is the idea to avoid a negative experience? That seems analogous to trying to avoid the elephant in the room. The bottom line is erections come and go and don't matter much whether it's day zero or day [insert large number]. The focus seems better spent on bonding, relationship building, etc. than on X days until sex. Maybe this benchmark is easier.

Is the idea avoiding orgasm? Recovering from PMOF addiction and shifting toward karezza might not be as closely tied together as it seems. I'm not sure we know. Or at least there might be some confusion with each on a unique journey.

My goal was at least 120 days

My goal was at least 120 days with no intentional orgasm because I thought you were supposed to avoid orgasm completely in order to let the addiction patterns die down so you could re-wire to the real thing. I also thought the performance thing could be an issue. I guess karezza would probably be the best of all worlds in that you're getting the bonding behaviors without the orgasm, but I wasn't (and am still not) in a position to have that type of relationship with anyone.

No orgasm might be better if

No orgasm might be better if you can find a woman willing to bond in other ways. Rewiring to sex with orgasm is perhaps better than rewiring to life with no orgasm or sex. We live in a 2D heavy world such that there is always some wiring to 2D even if it isn't porn.

Performance issues will always be there. Perhaps the best way to reduce them is to experience them and come out the other side.

120 days is a while. Adjusting as one goes can work well.

There is definitely merit to that but

After hearing the stories about how people feel that having sex too early slowed down there reboot is what makes me cautious. I put that 120 days there to ensure that the reboot has happened and my brain is back to normal. That doesn't mean that after that people should wrecklessly have sex. I am all about bonding and sex based on sensations rather than fantasy related. After hanging out with my cuddle buddy and making out with her that was very good and all, but then once I had an erection my mind drifted off into my old fantasies, etc. that really scared me and today I actually have a little bit of guilty thoughts because of that. Does anyone know why that might have happened?

don't shortchange yourself

hey, Spirit, you had those fantasies because your brain is still wired that way. Duh! So what? Big surprise. Who cares? Let the fantasy have it's little run and focus on other thoughts.

Here's what I recommend. If you're with your cuddle buddy and fetish fantasies start up, then smell her, focus on her scent. Look at her, focus on her looks, caress her and focus on how that feels, really focus on it with 100% of your attention.

That's it. Really simple. And give your brain permission to do its thing. It will be awhile before these fantasies aren't triggered. It may be months. Get used to it. It's no big deal, doesn't mean anything.

And don't shortchange yourself by thinking you can't have sex during reboot. The reason people have troubles with it is they try to have performance based sex. And young girls who don't understand and think it's all about orgasm and guys should perform like porn studs. If you find someone who's not like that, you will recover MUCH faster and more easily than someone will solo. In fact, recovering solo is so difficult. Guys with wives or committed relationships recover much more easily in general.

You are already doing awesomely to have a cuddle buddy. Now don't expect unrealistic things -- don't expect these well worn brain pathways to suddenly disappear.

lol some guys really take

lol some guys really take this relapse theory far. Dude this is a very healthy sign! A while a guy there was a thread were a guy taught he was having semen leaking, but in fact, it was precum. The difference is that semen leakage happens when you're urinating.

Another hilarious one, was were guys was proud to no longer be having morning wood :). He was on day x or so and was proud of that.

This is a small theory that I have and it's also something I've noticed. There are usually two types of addicts, the ones with no libido at all and the ones with super high libido. I fell into the first category, so for me, I'm insaely happy with morning wood. Damm there is just no better way to start the day !

How does one know whether one

How does one know whether one has libido or not? I don't see erections as being a clear sign. If you had a ready women in front of you, would you have libido?

Anyone willing to go through withdrawal probably has plenty libido.

Morning wood and arousal erections are not the same.

you missed my point..

you missed my point..

How do you know you have libido? Simple, do you get turned on by everyday women. At least for me that is libido. Sure most guys fertilize their screens, but that's not libido in my case.

I've litteraly read this in a thread on this forum "are you having morning wood everyday? Dude you are fantasizing way too much".



For me, I define libido as being attract to the women you see in your everyday life. When I was heavy on porn, I felt apathy towards women. On the other hand, some guys became very horny (towards real life women) as well.

Some guys really wanted to get rid of this energy. I think Dano Clark has told this somewhere on the board.

For me I could never understand this, because I had no libido and no morning wood. I wanted this back. Others wanted to get rid of it.

Therefore I came up with this "theory" *cough* *cough* that some had no libido when on porn and others had high libido. The ones with no libido they wanted it back. The ones with high liido they say things like "yes I can now look at a women without feeling turned on".

like I said it's a thought I was having.

Everyone processes the

Everyone processes the opposite sex differently. That's going to be true with or without porn. Less porn probably means better calibration. M-w.com defines libido as the "instinctual psychic energy that in psychoanalytic theory is derived from primitive biological urges (as for sexual pleasure or self-preservation) and that is expressed in conscious activity."

Perhaps you always had plenty libido. It was just used up on your digital harem who for various reasons seemed better than 3D women. Without the digital harem, real women are the only option.

Your theory could extend from the introversion/extroversion divide. Similarly, although eccentric introverts are often thought of as sexually creepy and dangerous, it is often the more extroverted folks who commit sexual crimes. Extroverts are probably more likely to chase down sex and if used to porn escalation, want to recreate some of that.

yeah I see your point.

yeah I see your point.

I know it's not waterproof, that's also why I said it was just a thought and nothing really serious.

I do think I always had plenty of libido but I just used it up on porn. But for years it didn't felt like that. I'm 23 and I'm now discovering my true libido again.... 23 :p yeah go figure

and now excercise, time to go deadlifting :)

It's a reasonable theory. It

It's a reasonable theory. It's for X years from now when more scientists start trying to understand this stuff. Desensitization might manifest in various ways. Casual sex might be the extroverts version while isolation the introverts.

Wow that's pretty eye opening

I think both is a sexual problem. But if I had to choose it would rather be with real women. But I want more karezza type sex to be in my life. But dead lifting! He'll yeah that and squats will surely help your libido.

Edging to porn

is different from controlled intercourse. The connection with the other person makes all the difference. I bet you can feel it for yourself.

That said, going too near the edge with sex can also set off a bit of a cycle that increases frustration for a bit.

Just keep experimenting and you'll answer your own questions.

Marnia you are right. In the

Marnia you are right. In the past when I had sex and did semen retention (ie. no ejaculation), I still feel tired on the surface, and felt a bit frustrated the next 2 days (felt "backed up") especially in the sacrum. Like there's this pressure building inside, waiting to explode. But overall, one doesn't feel the low stamina and base energy compared to if one had ejaculated.

This is very different from if i had done a clean no PMO, which will feel the free flowing of tingling energy in my whole body.