Must I surrender?

Submitted by freedom on
Printer-friendly version

Must I surrender in the sense that entirely giving up PMO and especially MO isn't possible for me without bonding? I'm not sure what the point is in going on fighting and watching. I can't force bonding to happen. That not happening then feeds the PMO madness. It can turn into an ugly cycle. Sure, to most people what's the big deal if one MOs here or there. Someone will say try scheduled M. All well and good, except there seems so much to be gained from giving it up entirely. Despite that, the journey inevitably hits a snag somewhere, at one day, one month, or several months. Does it makes sense to live in resistance? This doesn't seem a middle way. Something seems like it must be adjusted and yet I have no idea what to adjust without bonding. That reality makes little sense given the wisdom of finding blissful aloneness before bonding. If that wisdom is wrong, then one has to accept we are partial people and fundamentally needy of others even if not any particular other. Fine, I can accept that. Somehow that doesn't work well for me as a more introverted person. I can contribute greatly to others' lives and enjoy that in many ways. It just isn't enough. A void, however big or small at any moment, is always there. There's got to be something more fulfilling than the interactions I have. Without that, MO will never leave the foreground and fade away and I'm stuck battling the monsters within.

I'm frustrated and tired of resisting things. Flow seems easier. I just can't find mine in just about any area of life. How do I surrender? To whom/what?


All I can tell you is this...

Without surrender, meditation is baseless
Without action, meditation is useless
Without meditation, life is lifeless

I think you know who you should surrender to. He is in form and formless. He is within you. He is without you. He is everywhere. And He's not a person. Smile

Egh. That would likely just

Egh. That would likely just draw me more inward which is fine except that there might then be even less action. If anything, I need more action that's somehow in a form that's functional.

Or maybe I've entirely missed something and meditation has been elusive. I can't know what I don't know.


is like the eyes of worship. Meditation leads you to worship. Until you become completely non-violent, meditation will remain a farce.

By the way, these are the translated words of yoga guru Baba Swami Ramdev. They are not my original words. Also, I don't want you to think I'm pushing worship, religion, etc. on you. But Baba Ramdev is a wise man. He has vowed himself to a life of celibacy, and supermodels in India are lining up to have his babies. But he brushes them off like lint.

I no nothing about Ramdev so

I no nothing about Ramdev so this is more of a general comment. In many ways, it's easier to brush potential partners of one's desired sex (male/female/other) off like lint than to engage them. There's something to the wisdom traditions that are not for celibacy. Supermodels are often not that interesting as many in the PUA community will attest to. Maybe Ramdev is sapiosexual, demisexual, or related and supermodels are of little interest to him.

As much as I walk in various directions, something is always pulling me somewhere else. That somewhere else is where I need to go.

I can take plenty pushing...maybe too much.


Hi Freedom,

So what's the goal?

I find I've been doing better once I realized that Love is crucial to the whole relating thing and that I've created the barriers to Love within myself that I seem to be experiencing. Once that understanding settled within me, I became more interested in seeing what I could do for others (so that they could uncover the barriers to Love within themselves and hence make it easier for me) and finding ways to love myself rather than trying to get love from outside somehow.

I came across a couple of Osho quotes that inspired me recently on this topic:

1. How to Experience Love

Get rid of your parental voices/ programming inside yourself. Become individuals.
Don't demand perfection. Love ordinary people.
Give without any condition.

From Osho. 2008. Being in Love.

2. Symptoms of Love:

Absolute contentment
No Future
You cease to be.

from Osho. Undated. Vigyan Bhairav Tantra.

Not sure what the goal is. A

Not sure what the goal is. A goal is perhaps to be on a path that doesn’t require this fighting of self.

I’ve been swamped and maybe this deserves it’s own thread. Oh well. Osho has an interesting bit about how partners seek sympathy when they want love and how sympathy seeking which often involves deception prevents love. Examples might include the stereotypical housewife stopping her joyous living upon her husband’s return home from work or the husband cheerily coming home and then immediately becoming a complainer about his tough day at work. It’s of course not limited to partners. Osho can explain himself.

You cannot deceive higher consciousness. Never try to deceive a master. And you try, because your logical mind, the lawyer, tries in every way. It happens every day with me. It is rarely that you don’t deceive me, or don’t try to deceive me.

A person comes. He is happy; I see he is happy; for the first time, filled with an unknown joy. And I ask him, ‘How are you?’ and he shrugs his shoulders and says, ‘So so.’ Why is he trying to deceive? He would like more sympathy from me; this is what he is doing. If he says he is happy and joyful, then there is no need for any sympathy. And you are so foolish in your ways that you ask for sympathy and you could have got love – but you ask for sympathy.

Love can be given to one who is happy, sympathy to one who is unhappy. Love cannot be given to one who is unhappy. It is impossible. He is not in the right mood. You cannot give love to him; you can only sympathize. Love can be given only when somebody is happy and flowing; then he is in the right tuning and love is possible.

I was going to give love, but you tried to deceive me – and you got only sympathy. You cannot deceive. You are deceiving YOURSELF. But you have become so trained in your deceptions, because in the whole of your life you have been doing that.

The woman in the house is singing, humming, and happy. The moment she hears the car coming in the driveway, the husband arriving, her face changes. Now she is getting ready to ask for sympathy.

She becomes sad, tired. Just a moment before she was absolutely okay, nothing was wrong with her. Just the noise of the car and she has changed. The husband is coming – now she knows the trick: if she is unhappy, he will be sympathetic. If she is not unhappy, he will read his newspaper.

You have learnt deceptions. And they work! They work with the same level of people as you; they are also doing the same. The husband may have been humming a song while he was driving; the moment he reaches the house he makes a pose – tired, working the whole day for the wife and the children, dead tired, needs somebody to sympathize.

Remember: sympathy is a poor substitute for love. Never settle for sympathy. Sympathy is NOTHING! And nobody feels good when he gives sympathy to you. It looks like a burden: one has to do it; it is a duty. Somebody is ill and you have to talk to him. Somebody is ill in the hospital and you have to go and sympathize. It is a duty one has to do.

Never ask for sympathy. Be happy and love will be flowing towards you. Love is the right coin; sympathy is the wrong coin. It looks like love; it is not love.

So this is the trouble: you ask for sympathy, and when sympathy is given, you are not fulfilled – nobody can be fulfilled by sympathy. You were needing love and you asked for sympathy. You asked for the wrong food. If it is given, it will disturb your stomach. If it is not given, it will disturb your stomach all the same.

When you are asking for sympathy and it is not given, you will become more unhappy because nobody cares about you. If it is given it will not be a fulfillment because sympathy is very thin, it is nothing. You needed real, authentic love, a flowing of the heart. You needed your husband running towards you, but then you have to become a magnetic force, a happiness. Nobody runs towards unhappiness headlong. One tries to protect oneself, moves guardedly.

But these tricks you have learned. And even when you come to me, you go on playing your tricks. You have learned them too much.

- Osho, Until You Die, Discourses on the Sufi Way, see , pp. 15-16