Where is the Love :)

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Submitted by Elira on
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I have not made love for over a year. In my last relationship we instinctively engaged in Karezza, I hadn't heard of it yet. The biggest barrier to a new relationship has been the lack of consciousness I see in regards to loving touch. Since my last experience, I don't want traditional sex and would actually feel as if it was somewhat of an assault.



introducing the idea

I think I'm okay there, but I'm not a purist when it comes to orgasms. I have had what felt like exploded circuitry, and from there I learned to level-off my orgasms to keep that from happening. That's hard for me to do sometimes as I am very orgasmic.


I'm impressed. "instinctively engaged in Karezza?" That's pretty awesome!

And I'm also here to show some love! Woot!

I'm also someone who hasn't made love in a good long while but that will probably change in the coming months or perhaps weeks. I made the mental switch from single and not looking to single and looking.


Thanks :)

We just cared for each other so much by the time we made love, it was a very heart centered as opposed to genital experience...and yet, we made love a great deal. We felt the desire to be joined often. We felt that sex wasn't the right word, and referred to it as "being one."

I went from mending heartbreak, and then through a personal transformation which is still occurring. We both got involved too soon after failed marriages. Though I am open to involvement with a man, the nicest men I meet pick up on my changeable nature at this time and are wary. I understand and don't force it. So, I may not actually settle into something until I stabilize.

Hey...good luck with your search Dano!

Hey, good stuff

This struck me:

"Though I am open to involvement with a man, the nicest men I meet pick up on my changeable nature at this time and are wary."

I think I might have put off similar energy in the past year or so to women. Now I try to do what you said try to "understand" where I am and "not force it." The not forcing it is so key for me because that's my MO. "Are we having sex yet?" "When will the sex happen?" "Why bother if there is not going to be sex...."

Those are attitudes I really have no desire to revisit. A change has come over me. I just enjoy the ride more now. I like to flirt, could do it for hours, and do! So long as I am around a female who is open to me. Some are more than others. It's only a matter of time before my new openness will lead to something more intimate and when that happens I want that heart centered experience you describe.

Hey yeah

Oh they def. turn into dates!

I get online and chat up a lady on facebook and say stupid funny things. Then make a phone call and do the same thing. Go on a date and keep chatting and flirting. I like to bring up sex or even just reference it in some innocuous and safe way and then tease a bit. Like the other day I was at work and an older woman I wasn't attracted to was showing a lot of cleavage. I told the girl I was texting this and this gave us so much fodder to flirt around. We ended up to some ridiculous joke that when next we meet she would have to wear a bikini and I would be forced to maintain eye contact the whole time.

Stuff like that. Just in it for fun and not worrying about the outcome. Now that doesn't mean I'm not into having sex with one or more of my flirt buddies/dates. It just means I'm less attached to it happening RIGHT NOW or even at all! That's kind of liberating for me because I've gone so long I feel like there is no pressure for instant gratification, again I want it but I don't *need* it immediately. Makes me more selective which is good and is more attractive to boot.

Flirt for hours

I believe that you are right about your openness leading to something more intimate and heart centered. I think I am in a similar space. Flirting is creative and fun, and a great way of being receptive and reaching out authentically. I do it whenever I can. For me, it is really about noticing what makes an individual unique and responding to it - sometimes with wit. I am a business professional, so my approach is very subtle. I appreciate when men are more outgoing. It makes me feel more feminine.

I believe you that you've changed, because of the words that you are responding to, and the way you are saying the things that you say. Keep your heart open Dano!

Oh hey, I just want to add that when a man expresses authenticity, women change their MO. They may be circling you now and checking you out. Don't be surprised if more than one starts moving in closer. My friendly and very respectful advice would be to maneuver that sort of situation very carefully so it doesn't go to your head and throw you too terribly off balance. Again, I've been there.

Hey thanks

Your words of advice are well received. This latest round of dating was spurred on by an older woman in a *much* higher position in her career than me, lowly desk guy at a library. She saw all these things about me and articulated it so well and she had a genuine quality about her that I found pretty magnetic. So we went out a few times and enjoyed each others company. After the second date I kind of got overzealous and called her and emailed her in the same day....I had just finished my craziest semester and it was the week before the holiday and I was off the chain and wanted to share all this positive emotion with somebody. She was super overwhelmed with her work stuff however and said she felt pressured.

Then I went right into turtle mode, felt kinda rejected and was like "damn, well, I'll leave her alone." Then she kind of reversed her plans to be at our Christmas party that she had already said she wouldn't attend and part of me thinks it was so she could see me. I'm not sure where it's going or where it's headed but I decided that there's enough of me to go around and started being bolder asking women out. Now I'm not even sure if I should contact her again because I have all these options and I kinda thought she would initiate again because our last direct communication outside the work context was she "wanted space" and "would still be around after holiday." I thought I could just play it cool and wait till we see each other in the professional setting, in person, and that would probably tell me whether she has some interest still or the bloom is off the rose.

I'm not entirely sure why I just shared that but I figured you'd get it. Maybe for the same reasons you responded the way you did above...

Always remember

that she may be a bit too friendly with her vibrator, too. That can make goddesses feel a sense of "lack" (or "overwhelm").

It's great that you're becoming more resilient.

Well for one thing,

I'm older than you and somehow you picked up on that. Younger men are attracted to me and I've done the kind of stuff she's doing. It's not that you guys are better looking, after all, I've lost some of the "perfection" of my youth. I 'm attracted to younger men that have depth, and intelligence. You guys also have so much energy and it excites me, but I do my best to keep cool about that. People talk, and it can affect a woman's career. But, maybe the younger men also find that somewhat counterbalancing.

If I said I "wanted space" and "would still be around after holiday," it would mean that I want to cool off till after the holiday. She may have all kinds of family obligations. If I showed up at the party, it would probably be to see you. But, I rarely initiate. I use quite a bit of energy backing men off and laying down boundaries. I always have and so it doesn't come naturally to me - plus I'm divorced so I had years of being out of the game. If I'm interested in a man, I stand closer to him, touch his hand or arm when I'm speaking to him, tell him it's good to see him, make more eye contact with him, smile more, and am more relaxed unless I have something pressing going on. If I can, I definitely slow my pace to savor the interaction. Many of my co-workers outright throw themselves at guys so maybe my signals can be confusing. I may do some of these things with a good friend, but not all of them. It could be interesting to observe her when she's talking to someone you know she's not interested in and compare that to how she is with you.

I've never actually gotten involved with a much younger man but I don't rule it out. I would know that it was temporary and that he'd eventually fall in love with someone his own age just like I will. But if he respected me and understood me, we could both add something to each others' lives that we'd take with us.

I don't know.

I'm pretty good looking. Wink

Thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna wing it and just wait till next time I see her and then just see how she reacts. What she doesn't know is that she really helped me get out of my funk and reawakened some confidence to get out there and meet more people and date again. I've waited like a year and a half.


And as you know when I first came around here I wasn't prone to declarative statements about my own physical attractiveness, i.e. I didn't think very highly of myself at all.

I definitely

get that impression!

So question? Are my signals too vague? I think I'm feeling stronger about getting involved and wonder if I'm too low key.

I can vouch for the value of

I can vouch for the value of going for younger men. My husband is 9 years younger than me. He was 22 when I met him and I 31. I am now 34 and we are pregnant with our first child. I have never met a more emotionally mature and loving human in my life. So you might want to question your story that "I would know that it was temporary and that he'd eventually fall in love with someone his own age just like I will." The possibilities are as infinite as we allow them to be.

Not that I was specifically looking for a younger man. He could have been old and wrinkled too and if he had had the same shiny soul, would have fallen for him just as hard.

My sweetie

My sweetie had that "instinctual karezza/tantra touch" when we met...it's what brought me to this forum, etc.~~I'd never been with a man who was so conscious with his touch and kisses, etc. You all are a rare breed, but hopefully, not for long! People just don't know what they are missing! Sex becomes something to yearn for and crave (as a woman), not something to dread because it becomes routine. So happy I was led down this path!

Hope you find someone who shares your vision soon!

shares my vision

Thanks Rachel!

I agree that the men who practice karezza / sacred loving are gems. It takes an individual that is very conscious of their actions to engage with loving awareness rather than surrender to instinct and the attitudes and images of media exploitation.

It's out there somewhere . . .

It's out there somewhere. Learning to meet people is a skill and helps in every area of life. If you are skillful at meeting people you will, just by sheer numbers, be more likely to meet potential mates. I don't know you, so perhaps I'm heading in the wrong direction with this, but I would recommend making a point of meeting as many new people as possible. There's no doubt in my mind that there are plenty of women out there that would be thrilled to find a man that was a caring, gentle lover.


Yes, that is why I changed my name to "Rachel" from "Rediscovered" so people would know what gender I am (if you recall, Marnia!).

By the way, have you noticed that a person's avatar doesn't appear in their initial post? I love seeing the avatar with the post because it reminds me of who the person is and gives them a personality.


I have not made love close to four years and looking back (to my married years) I now feel I have never made love only made sex, nothing more than hot, selfish animalistic sex. Towards the end of the marriage I felt so used and violated every time we had sex, I could feel that he was only on the take. Troughout most of the marriage I wanted as much sex as I could get...however I now realize that it was love that I was so desperately craving but all it was to him was just another hot sex session. When I knew that he was looking at internet porn it somewhat turned me on (with some deep seated jealousy also) and we would view together. Then I would view it alone and ended up with the worst PMO habit.
As his own PMO habit grew it was so obvious that he would do whatever he could to be home alone with the computer before long I could feel that something inside him made a big shift for the worst. I started feeling that even when he was inside me his brain was somewhere else, he became just so emotionally distant I could not bring him back. In the end my worst fears became a reality, I could feel it so strongly I just knew that he started seeing other women in real life. For a while I just tried to up the sex and make it even hotter but of course this was a losing battle as we know novelty is needed to spike that dopamine even higher. It was a long marriage 23 years we shared four children...but I had to face reality I had no love or honesty from this man, zero gentleness and he just became more aggressive as time went on. I did the only thing left to do, I spied furtively for months just to see the extent of his promiscuity which was even worse than what I had imagined...I had the proof and faced it I left the marriage. Nearly four years on it was the best thing I ever did for myself and my children leaving the whole toxic relationship behind. Thanks to alot of hard work I regained my self esteem ditched the PMO plus other bad habits and addictions even decided to live a life of celibacy in order to find myself.
Life is all good now (still trying to emotionally heal my children) and I feel ready for a relationship but I also feel that I could only engage in a loving karezza/tantra relatioship, when I read about karezza I cry I long for it so much. I know these special soft and loving karezza men do exist but I feel that they must be such a minority that I would have to be very lucky to meet one.

It's interesting to read this from the feminine perspective . .

It's interesting to read this from the feminine perspective. When my marriage was in decline one thing I wanted was more closeness and warmth, not just mechanical sex. I actually grew to disdain sex because it seemed quite different from the tender feelings I had for her. After my divorce I spent roughly ten years hating sex, even the thought of sex made me wince. I truly did not want to do it ever again. I did, however, gravitate to women and wanted close companionship.

About ten years after the divorce I started thinking that maybe sex wasn't so bad after all but I didn't rush into anything. I have a relationship with a woman at this time but we have yet to venture into sexual intimacy. I'm in no rush; neither is she. If it does develop in that direction I would hope that gentle love-making would be to her liking. I don't have any hard and fast rules in mind; just the desire for the purest and gentlest of delights that a man and a woman can share.

Congratulations on your progress. Don't be surprised if finding a man interested in Karezza is easier than you might imagine. I really think that there are plenty of men that realize they have been misled regarding the whole business of sex as some kind of masculine triumph.

wanting closeness and warmth

It seems to me that in non-karezza relationships there is always one partner that is more infatuated/in love than the other...the other is usually the one who calls the relationship off. The more infatuated/in love partner is left trying to cling on and wanting more affection regardless if they are female or male. I was wondering if this was the case with you...who initiated the end of the relationship you or her?

In my case it was me who left (I had left him on a few other occassions but I would always go back) I think that I was addicted to him in some sick way. He would carry on about how I needed him in order to survive saying that he had enough of me and that he no longer wanted to be with me. He put me down so much for so long that I did not think I deserved to be treated any better. I often felt like I was the one leaning on him as he would try to make me think that I was weak in many ways. Funny thing is that I didn't realize until quite some time after I left that he was just bluffing all along,,,he needed me in a big way. I have gone forward and uphill since being on my own, tapping into an enormous well of strength deep inside me. Instead he has become even more selfdestructive than before and still on his way downhill.

Happy you now have a woman to share with. I feel that emotionally I am still a virgin as he was never fully there for me not even during sex. Only about a year ago I realized just how much I do miss any kind of male companionship...I sometimes look at a guys chest and just imagine how beautiful it would feel to lay my head down in the middle of his chest and just rest taking in the sweet smell of male endorphins.

finding karezza men

You are very courageous to have such honesty with yourself about the past. If you read through the posts here, you will see that men quite are quite drawn to karezza and some write very articulately about it.

For quite some years I had been into tantra. Being 'slammed' just didn't work for me. I walked away from that and since then I would talk to my lover as we got close enough. I have to know him well. Then I will tell him that I need to trust that a man will hold me in his arms and gently make love to me with lots of kissing and eye contact. Only then can I give myself to him completely. My experience has been that a man is very moved by these words. If he can't maintain this kind of loving, I call it creative differences and move on.

You should speak from your own heart. I think when you can find your own words, this loving will be yours. You yourself have to be capable of letting someone love you only like this.

Are you my twin?

I came to this forum for research for a writing project and the stories here made me long for this also. Your sentences about longing for this type of relationship so much that you cry is similar to what I feel. I don't want the old pickup schtick anymore either!


Men cut way back on the orgasms when they realize they're not tired and they can make love ALOT more.

Good luck! You deserve only the best.

Good insight

They know that regular contact does them good, and so it's naturally a high priority (unless desensitization is at work, from overstimulation).


I know what you mean. I have been noticing, though, that people can be more flexible than you'd guess. It may be that they'd be interested in quieter sex if they knew it was what you wanted.

Though sex is a joint activity

it is he that is entering my body physically. I've noticed that what Marnia says is true...that gentler sex leaves you feeling rejuvenated (boy do I miss that!) The more 'commercialized' brand of sex leaves a woman feeling beat up inside and then problems follow. It also makes me angry. So I feel like I have to tell a man that I like it more gently.

yeah I'm not sure what it is

this type of sex is more gentle. And there is no ejaculation. My wife used to get regular UTIs and those never happen anymore. It does rejuvenate for sure, it is amazing how I feel afterwards for a long time. Not a warm tired glow from an orgasm, but a really warm floaty feeling of wellbeing that lasts the day and the next day. Just wonderful.

Some people believe

that love is the most infinite resource in the universe. What if...

when sex is carried out in a more aggressive manner by the man, it is aggression that is transmitted to his partner (and vice / versa if she responds in kind). Perhaps this even inflames individual aggressions. But when sex is carried out with loving intention as the focus, we not only transmit love to our partner, but open ourselves to the ultimate universal resource which is love. The effect is exponential and profound.

Just a thought...

By the way everybody, I'm truly thankful for all the feedback. I've been afraid to be in a relationship for quite some time, and I can feel myself healing through all of this.