Feb 2013 Update

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Submitted by Louie on
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There has been discussion about me on the forums lately so I decided that I should write an update to my blog. This update is not about Karezza really. It is more about my whole philosphy on sex going forward.

Some people seem to have the impression that I am martyring myself for the good of my marriage. That is not true. What is true is that I have come to some understandings about intimacy in my marriuage and I have made my peace with them.

There are two key points:

1) My wife has ALWAYS had control of when sex happens in our relationship. I was pretty much ready to go anytime but she was more discerning about the whole thing :) Sex only happens when she wants it to happen. There is no need for me to make a conscious decision to give her the reigns. She has had them since day one.

2) I had a strong emotional need for sex. I used to lie to myself and say that it was a physical need, but I now recognize it for what it was. I had low self -esteem and a need for personal validation from my wife. I wanted her to want me. My favourite way to get that validation was through sex. I was emotionally addicted to sex.

It does not take a genius to see that 1 and 2 above are a lethal combination. You have a man who has attached his sense of personal worth to something (sex) that is 100% under the control of his wife. What happens when she does not want to have sex? His sense of personal worth drops and he blames her for it.

That is essentially what I did to myself. I created a covert contract with my wife in which she was required to have sex with me so that I could feel good about myself. That worked so long as our sex life was rolling. However, after we starting having kids our sex life declined and the whole thing went off the rails.

For the longest time I tried to resolve this situation by working on number 1. I tried as hard as I could to get my wife to have more sex. However, this approach failed miserably. The more that I pressured her, the more she resisted. It became a viscious cycle in which I pushed, she resisted, so I pushed harder and she resisted even harder. Eventually I gave up because it was wrecking our marriage.

Since then I have shifted my focus to resolving number 2. I have invested some serious time and energy into examining my own psyche to figure excatly why sex was so important to me and how my sense of self became so dependent on it. I could write a book on this subject, but I don't want to. That is my personal stuff. Suffice it to say that I figured myself out. Most importantly, I decided that my happiness CANNOT be dependent on sex. A person should never allow their own personal sense of worth to be based on things that other people control. To do so is to give away your personal power.

I also figured out that my wife does not want that power over me. Most of her resistance was based on the fact that she disliked how needy and dependent I was about sex. She could sense how badly I was addicted to sex and it really turned her off. She did not want to be party to that weakness of mine.

She could have made it easy for me. She could have blocked off one night a week to spread her legs and think of England. For the longest time I could not for the love of God figure out why she would not do that. Now I am incredibly grateful that she didn't. It would have been easy for her, but it would also have been wrong. She knew that I was being weak and needy about sex and she knew that I was capable of much more than that. God bless her for it. God bless all women who put their foot down and say "enough is enough, stop using sex to hide from your insecurities. MAN UP!"

The point of this post is to say that I am manning up. I have successfully disentangled myself from the sex addiction. I have kicked the masturbation habit. I am back in right relationship with sex again. I am currently not having sex, but it is not a hardship. I do not feel like a martyr. I feel FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! There is no neediness. There is no insecurity. I can enjoy sex if it is available because I love it, but I can also wait patiently because I don't NEED it.

Number 1 has not changed at all. My wife is still 100% in control of when sex happens. The only difference is that it used to drive me up the wall and now I am totally at peace with it. I am ready when she is, but there is absolutely no rush. Number 2 has been resolved, and that makes all the difference.

P.S I know that some people will want to critique this post and poke holes in it. You are free to do that. However, I want to make sure that the main point of this post does not get lost in the debate ... I do not consider it a hardship to go without sex while my wife works through her own issues. It is not uncomfortable for me. I am not suffering, and therefore there is no martyring going on. Two years ago I was suffering. Now I am not. The situation changed because I changed, not because my sex life changed. I think that is very, very important. Number 1 above was only a serious issue because of Number 2. Now that number 2 is gone, Number 1 is a minor inconvenience at best. Would I like more sex? Yes. Is it critically important? No. When my self image was no longer threatened by the absence of sex it stopped being a big issue.



Man Up!

Thanks for sharing. Man Up! is such a great line. Your wife isn't an air traffic controller of your sex needs. She is your partner and I'm sure she has needs of her own. Perhaps she is needing a man to lean on when she feels down or a strong arm to go around her in times she needs to be comforted. Being needy gets you now where and can be seen as coming from a weak position, which supports your comments of her being in control. So, Man Up and instead of saying she has control, try and become an equal in your relationship, the man she fell in love with and not a man she looks down at. I hope I didn't over step with my comments..just saying what I heard from your message.

I'm married to a strong minded women but sometimes at the end of the day she wants nothing more then my full attention and for me to put my arms around her for a big hug. She has told me that it's the most saftest place in the world to her. This to me can never be replaced by a need for sex. So sometimes it's the little things in life that we over look.

Man Up

Perhaps control was the wrong word to use.

My point is that I respect my wife's right to self-determination. If she wants to have sex, I am willing. If she does not want to have sex then that is OK too. I will never, ever, for any reason try to make her have sex. There is no good reason to do so and I do us both a diservice if I try. Why would I want to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with me?

So, it is more correct to say that I accept her right to have 100% control of her own sex life. She does not have to do anything for my sake. I will not try to control or manipulate her in any way on that score.

P.S I am not at all concerned about my wife being the dominant one in our relationship. I used to be the "nice guy" submissive husband but that is not the case anymore. We are pretty well balanced now.

Different views

I was just asking myself why I felt compelled to write this post. I guess I feel that what I am doing is highly misunderstood, even by the people who cheer me on. However, I do not think this post will change that.

I have developed views about sex that are fundamentally different from many people on all of the message boards that I have ever joined. However, there is no need for me to convince anyone else that what I am doing is right. It feels right to me, therefore it is right for me.

good post Louie

Many times, we have sex when my wife isn't into it. It is on the schedule and she isn't into it. But she enjoys it after awhile, at least some of the time.

If I had to wait for her to feel like it, we would have very, very little sex.

This type of arousal that happens AFTER sex begins, is very common. In some women at all ages. In some women as they get past menopause. In some relationships and situations. It's very common.

That's why we schedule sex in general. We're experimenting now, as you have read in the other thread, with giving her the reins, but I doubt she will suddenly feel like having sex very often. Although I am hoping she feels like it more, when we do have sex. But I still expect scheduling to be a significant component, and I still think in the end we'll work something out where she ends up having sex sometimes at first without feeling like it. I hope 100% of the time she feels like it during our sex though, which has not always been the case.


Thanks Emerson

I think there are different reasons why women lock-down. Therefore it stands to reason that different approaches may be needed to help them get out of it again.

I do not think that my approach would work for you. It works for me because my wife has a healthy libido that has become buried under layers of mental and emotional stuff. As the debris clears I am starting to see the tigress poking through here and there. Those glimpses give me the feedback that I am on the right path.

I do not know what will eventually work for you. However, I have faith that it will work out. I can tell that you and your wife love each other very much. Where there is a will, there is a way.


I agree the schedule is useful. If Marnias theory holds water then regular sex is good for both parties. Even if one may not always feel like. Heck sometimes *I* dont feel like it, but we come around usually. Ive witnessed my beloved go from not interested at all to really quite aroused. I can think of one particular example, which was day one or two or her period when she normally has minus 100% interest, with bad cramps and whatnot. Anyway we did oil massages instead, and next thing we know shes getting all frisky.

But i know what you say, Louie, about self esteem is right, as much as it pains me to say it. Still i'm attracted to Marnias theory about the power of bonding to heal, and hence remove some of the focus on *having* to *work* so *bloody* *hard* just to heal and feel ok about yourself. That's where the schedule works for us. We cooperate to do something that helps us both stay more balanced.

Good Luck!

I’m sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, but I in no was talking about forcing your wife to do anything or suggesting you to push her to doing something she doesn’t want. I do not promote that in my relationship and there for I would never suggest it.

Per your last post “I accept her right to have 100% control of her sex life” and let me add…(and yours) to the end of that statement. You directly or indirectly handed over your control of your own sex life to her “from day one” as you put it.

If you’re fine with your wife not providing you an opportunity for sex and if you’re not willing to Man UP and crack the door open to provide her with an opportunity, there isn’t much more I can say.

Good Luck!

BorderlineIQ wrote:

If you’re fine with your wife not providing you an opportunity for sex and if you’re not willing to Man UP and crack the door open to provide her with an opportunity, there isn’t much more I can say.

That statement is loaded with assumptions.

All I can say is trust me, I know what I am doing on this one.

In the context of my marriage manning up means being a man who is an independent source of strength. If I am seeking comfort from her then she is not happy because she wants it to be the other way around. In fact it is now the other way around. That is the reason that we are making progress. I would bet that you and I probably in agreement on this one. If you saw how I interact with my wife now (as opposed to two years ago) you would probably be satisfied that I have manned up tremendously and there would be no further debate on whether or not I am willing to man up.

In fact, I have progressed father than I ever expected. I never would have imagined that someday I would get to the point where it did not bother me one way or the other if sex happened. However, I have talked to other men who have reported the same thing. They decide that they want more sex. They decide that they need to man up to get more sex. They man up, and then decide that sex is not so important after all. The desire for sex gets them started, but the further they progress, the less they are motivated by sex.

It also seems to be a repeating pattern that some time after the man stops thinking sex is a big deal his wife starts wanting it again. She senses that he is back in right relationship with himself, and with sex, and therefore he is much more attractive again.

I have tried to figure out why this works and this is the best I can come up with:

So long as your wife thinks that you are fixated on sex she will be turned off because she feels like she is just a vehicle for you to get your sexual fix with. However, when you get to the point where sex is no big deal, then she can trust that when you make love to her it is genuinely about her. It is her you want, not just sex.

quick reply

It’s hard to know all aspects of a relationship from a few postings. To man up or just being a man to me has nothing to do with sex or the act of. It’s more primal then that. It’s about being her rock to keep her grounded, being there to keep her safe, and being there for her physical and mental needs. Like I mentioned, a simple hug goes a long ways when you can make your wife feel warm and safe.

The one thing I don’t agree with you on is the reverse psychology game that you’re involved in. I hate games, well relationship-mind games. I have never felt the need to stop having sex to be more attractive to my wife.
Then again, I never felt that I use my wife as a vehicle to get my fix either.

If you are fixated on sex and it’s a turn off to your wife, then I would suggest that perhaps you or both of you should go talk to a professional for a little help. Best advice I can give you!


I do not think that I have ever encountered someone who misinterpreted what I am doing as completely as you just did. I feel like I am saying one thing and you are hearing something completely different. Holy smokes.

Perhaps I over stepped as I

Perhaps I over stepped as I do not have the whole story, and for that I apologize. Others on this site have issues with their ladies not having sex for a number of reasons. Your story grabbed me as something was off. You seem to have so many layers of thought that makes me believe I'm missing something. It’s nothing personal, I’m just simply trying to understand what I’m missing in your messages. I seriously hope for the best for you and your relationship with your wife. Man Up, is still a great line! :)


I think every man would love to have a woman who *wants* him~~not because he's the "man," but because she wants HIM.

And your approach would work with me~~I think it would slowly bring out the "tigress" that you talk about and eventually, your wife will be free to be sexual without shame or feeling self-conscious. I'm glad that you realize it can be a very slow process. Patience is a virtue that is sometimes lacking (in men and women, but especially in men when it comes to sex!). I think the fact that she will grab you for a passionate kiss says a lot about how your patience is doing wonders as far as giving her space to be herself.

Once walls are constructed, it's so very hard to let them down and be sexually spirited! We women define ourselves one way (whether we like it or not) and sometimes that definition doesn't coincide with being passionate. I remember during my marriage thinking I had become asexual! And I'm not, far from it~~that part of me just got covered up and I became afraid to show it. I'm not sure why, but I know I'd rather be *this* woman (who loves herself and loves the sexual part of herself) than the woman who thought sex was highly overrated.

I think you are allowing your wife to feel comfortable with that side of herself again and in the end, she'll want to express it~~and you will be the lucky reci!pient~~ Smile

Happy Valentine's Day!

Just weighing with my perspective...

I have quite a bit of sexual energy, which may not be what you want to hear :), but it has actually led me to emotional insights. I have found that I can only stay deeply attached to a man if the emotional depth in the relationship mirrors the sexual depth. Otherwise, the sexual depth leaves me feeling used.

I think what you touch on Louie, about taking the time to explore your own psyche is a very important step that many men miss. They try to simplify the emotional stuff and say their needs are "basic." When actually, I have not found this to be true at all. To me, men tend to be rather complex emotionally and yet boil it all down to whether or not they get sex. If a man is willing to open himself emotionally and bond deeply and intimately with his lover, he will attain an inner security that he will not achieve based on how skillfully he can seduce a woman. Like you say, that is a neediness that will ultimately weaken you. I'm all for tons of sex. But if it's not healthy sex it can be very destructive.

Life is a journey. If this right now makes sense to you and your wife, the two of you are learning and exploring in your own way - seeking that perfect harmony with one another. Good luck!

Well said

Beautiful statement, Elira.

I just saw this quote and it reminded me of this thread:

"Ah, the fine balance of conjoining with another and staying in our truth. We all want to merge, and yet how many of us are truly comfortable with losing ourselves?"

~Sidonie Bouchet

You're simply amazing Louie.

You're simply amazing Louie. I was active in this forum for about five years and it is just SUCH A TREAT to return to the forum and discover such a wise man as you sharing your journey for everyone's benefit. On an archetypal level, as a woman, it is just simply amazing to hear you say the things you are saying here. It is quite revolutionary. Don't let anyone sway you from your path, you are on the right course. It may take a long time to navigate these waters and rewire our brains, but men and women have been mired in shit for so long, it will take superhuman efforts to turn this ship around. I feel a lot of gratitude for the dedication you've had to finding your own path with this and coming clearly to the point you are at now. Here's a toast to the unfolding mystery, challenge, and beauty of the path you have chosen!

Thank You

Thank you for the kind words. I am 100% committed to this plan so I guess we will see where it goes. Regardless of what happens (good or bad) I will pass on what I learn.