My Story - and feeling guilty about orgasms

Submitted by Zlarp on
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Hello everyone!

Okay, I've got a weird problem - one which isn't really a problem. I think most wannabe Karezza men would kill to be in my shoes. Heck, I'd kill to stay in my shoes! But first I guess I'll describe my situation:

I'm 26 years old and was (technically I am still) married to a woman. Now, ours wasn't exactly the typical love story. I always had trouble meeting women. I was anxious like nobody's business. I couldn't hold eye contact worth anything, couldn't look a woman in the eye and it was impossible to me to hold a conversation. However, I was determined I would get a girlfriend. Objectively, I kept telling myself, there was no reason I couldn't get a girlfriend. I was good-looking - or so I thought, slim - though not sportsy, smart, semi-witty and I didn't have any problems. After all, I didn't smoke or drink or did anything else really unhealthy, which in my eyes meant I should theoretically be quite the catch.

Yet all those things didn't help my confidence. But I decided I didn't care. I asked a girl out I'd been pining over for half a year. I got put on hold. Soon after that I had to run to the toilet and vomit, I was so nervous. A week later, she turned me down for good. It was my first experience with rejection. Instead of getting depressed, it made me proud. I had done something this hard and the girl hadn't been disgusted, just trying to let me down easy - even though having me wait a week was actually worse torture, she didn't know that. But hey, maybe it meant she'd really been considering me, at least!

I grew a bit bolder when university started, asking out more and more girls. I got a bit better at it. I even wrote someone a semi-love poem for creative writing class. But still I was collecting rejections. I tried internet dating and after a long time, I met my first girlfriend, who was wonderful. But after some weeks, she said we weren't working out and told me it wasn't because of my ED. I didn't really care about my ED back then, after all, I did manage to get it up at some point and I thought it was just about practice - the first few times we tried to have sex I just put it off as anxiety side-effect. I ignored the fact that I hadn't really been feeling anxious at all. In any case, I don't think ED was the cause for this relationship ending.

A week after breaking up with this girl, I met the woman who became my wife. It was a bit underwhelming, I didn't feel the emotional fireworks I usually felt with women. But I told myself that love takes many forms. And we had a lot in common and conversations were good! Sex was also good and we had a lot of it!

In the five years that followed, I slowly spiralled into a codependent relationship with her. She treated me like utter garbage, I moved in with her despite this being a bad idea, she asked me to marry her, I took her name, I did the whole housework, was going to university next to this and she kept hassling me about still getting a job on the side. She was abusive as can be, without ever getting physically violent. Still, I stayed with her and went along, thinking I was still happy to have someone, at least, since "getting a girl" had been so tough for me. I thought all relationships would turn out like this in the end, after all, honeymoon periods don't last forever.

But in the end I broke down and decided to divorce from her. I finally realized that a relationship didn't have to be like this and that I wasn't her slave.

I got a lot better when I started staying away from her. I went to our TCM doctor. I told her about various things bothering me, lack of energy, etc. and she gave me some herbal medicine. When she later asked me about the effects of that medicine, I told her I had a lot more sexual energy. When she asked what I did to deal with this energy, I told her proudly I was masturbating a lot, sometimes to pornography.

She told me that this was bad and a loss of energy and that I shouldn't masturbate so often. So I went home and masturbated.

The next day I masturbated again. The day after that, I searched on the internet a bit and found that, indeed, TCM thinks masturbation is bad. Since what the doctor had told me had always been right on the mark for me, I decided to give that a go as well. I mean, it didn't cost me anything, did it?

A while later, I discovered nofap. My eyes opened.

Four days later, my life had changed. Yes, just four days! My social anxiety wasn't just better, it was completely gone. I walked straight, was full of energy, looked everyone in the eye, women loved me, the works! Name your nofap benefit - I had it! A completely new world opened up for me! Water tasted sweet, healthy food tasted great, exercising felt like fun instead of a chore, course work became easy and fun, talking ot people became something I wanted instead of something I was forced to. I took up Yoga and Karate classes.

I was then approached by the girl who's now my girlfriend.

By that time, I'd already decided I never wanted to orgasm again. I'd happened upon Karezza and I'd found Marnia's book CPA. My pickup line for this girl was pretty much that I'd given up porn and masturbation. Yes, I'd grown that confident. That got us talking about sex pretty quickly, which was great.

She told me she wasn't a great prize in bed. She said sex always hurt her. She said she never orgasmd from intercourse, that she was self conscious about her body and that she didn't really like it all that much. With every word she spoke, I grew more and more excited. *jackpot* I thought to myself. A woman who'd never really orgasmd except sometimes rarely and when she did she didn't like it as much? A woman turned off by regular sex? She was perfect!

Our first night was magical. I had ED, but I was so charged with sexual energy from my nofap journey that every single touch by me was magical to her. After 24 hours in bed with me, she decided to break up with her then-boyfriend - despite me not getting it up.

Soon, my dick came alive as well and joined in on the fun. The first time we had sex it still hurt her, but then it was okay. Our first Karezza session was kind of underwhelming. Our second one was a bit better, our third a bit better. She was no longer experiencing any pain and seemed really excited about it, though she was still skeptical about the whole orgasm-less sex thing.

Then our fourth night happened and all doubts either of us had vanished completely. She was straddling me and we were going at it when suddenly "something" happened. I don't know how to describe this, but it was as if a switch had suddenly been turned on. We were moaning and screaming and everything was perfect. I don't know how long this went on because we lost all track of time, but it was the most amazing sex either of us had ever had.

We haven't had this exact feeling again yet, but I'm sure it'll probably return.

What I'm here to complain about now, though, is the night before last. I was giving her oral sex and I made her come. It happened really quickly, didn't even take more than a minute. I'd never made her come before. It wasn't a big orgasm, but I can't say I didn't know what I was doing. I could've stopped it but I didn't.

She didn't ask for me to stop or anything like that, but she told me after that sex after that didn't feel as good to her anymore and the next day she still told me she felt a lot less during contact with me than she usually did - though we still cuddled and it was still great.

Now I'm sitting here and I feel utterly rotten about having "stolen" this energy from her. I know this is silly, mistakes like this happen and I know I should just laugh it off. I know that if I had an orgasm at some point and be back to old brain fog and anxietyville for the next two weeks, I'd simply smile my way through and think nothing more of it, but having done this to her just makes me feel really bad? Any tips on how to get over this hangup? It just seems to me like I took so much from her just for the tiny gratification of seeing her orgasm (which, I must admit, was a huge turn-on. I got very close to the edge after seeing that and then having sex, though I was barely able to contain myself in the end, luckily)

Am I stupid for putting such importance on this? After all, making girls orgasm seems to be the life goal of most men and here I am complaining about it. What's the deal?

Ha ha!

All of us learn this way. No worries. We've always learned more from our slips back into conventional orgasmic sex than we do from times when we're consistent with karezza. It's just part of the learning curve.

One tip...oral sex can be too much of an "on switch" for the primitive part of the brain as you become more sensitive through sex without orgasm. Did you check Welcome to "Karezza Korner"? It has lots of FAQs. Here's the one on oral sex: What about oral sex and karezza?

It may be a couple of weeks before you two feel in synch again, so don't judge each other or the relationship for a while. Worse yet, you and she may be extra horny or more dissatisfied for a bit. See Do You Need A Chaser After Sex?

Good luck and welcome. It sounds like you've come quite far, and like you are learning really important things in a profound way. Be gentle with yourselves, and keep a sense of humor about the backward steps. This is a big adjustment for your brains.

Thanks for the kind words! It

Thanks for the kind words! It's amazing to be able to have a conversation with the person who wrote the book that pretty much changed your life - or helped with it in any case :)

No worries, the two of us are still in sync, after all, the honeymoon effect is still in full force and you couldn't pry us apart with a crowbar ^_^ I was just trying to verbalize these strange, irrational feelings of guilt I've been having. Having cuddled with her a lot today, however, I'm already feeling a lot better. It also made the withdrawal headache of my strange new carbless diet I'm doing right now go away. Doctors should prescribe regular cuddles, not medicine, I say! Hahah!

I've talked to her today and we both agreed that this kind of sex isn't really helped by oral sex much, at least if I perform it on her. I, however, am unable to prevent her from putting my dick in her mouth, she really loves how much I writhe and moan when she does it to me. Luckily I have ridiculous amounts of self-control - cultivated by forcing myself to do things that are "normal" even though I've been going through the horrible life of a complete porn addict. In a way, I thank porn because it gave me discipline. Funny how that works :)

And yes, I'm learning at a rapid rate. It feels like I've been through this learning process my entire life and I learned all I could and quitting porn was the last barrier standing in my way. It opened the floodgates to profound self discovery that's opening treasure chest after treasure chest for me. You have no idea how beautiful life suddenly is, hahahahah! Thank you so much for everything!

*big smile*

Believe me, everyone who even plays around with these ideas deserves a medal. It's not easy to try something so different. It sounds like you two have a good relationship and a solid understanding of the importance of cuddles.

Just want to warn you that you may become more sensitive with time, so be sure to let her know if you notice a shift. By then, she may not need to see you writhing and will be able to behave herself a bit more. Wink

Heheh, thanks for the heads

Heheh, thanks for the heads up. She told me she doesn't like the taste of semen, so if this 'problem' of me becoming even more sensitive (which I don't believe possible, but who knows? heh!) were to rear its ugly head, it'd probably be a self regulating thing :P

And somehow I don't feel like I deserve a medal. I seem to be quite the particular case. Quitting porn and masturbation was easy for me after I realized its importance. I went through all the physical withdrawal associated with quitting an addictive substance, but I never once had cravings. Same with the transition to Karezza. After quitting PMO, my body seemed to realize what was important and withholding orgsasm has become its natural 'thing' it just 'does'. I've had many dreams that could've turned into sex dreams for example where I'd just decided not to have sex or not ejaculate. Somehow this self-control extends even into my dreams. I guess I just got really lucky somehow I-m so happy

It was also really easy to get my new girlfriend to go along with it all. All I needed was to show her how good this could feel and she was on board. In the beginning, she said she really wanted to orgasm, so I tried giving her one. But even then I had this strange hang-up. I went through the motions of giving her one, but I didn't really want her to have one because I knew what it cost her. I think she somehow sensed that, which is why she didn't end up having one then. This is also why her orgasm through oral sex came as such a surprise. But maybe it just means she's opening up to me. Who knows? I'm excited to find out!

well this is all discovery isn't it?

Great that you are sensitive to these issues. It's best not to take responsibility for someone else's orgasms, is what I've found. Either for good or evil, lol. Just enjoy. It all resets itself after a few days or a week or so anyway.

I have found a very low carb diet can cause feelings for my partner to recede temporarily. They come back after I've adjusted but the diet has a really powerful effect at first.

My diet's weird as hell, but

My diet's weird as hell, but my sister and her husband are doing it and it's working wonders for them. It doesn't sound like it'd work, but I've never seen them this healthy before and they have a lot more energy than anyone else I know, do lots of physical work and sports on the side of that as well.

They eat only raw foods, so no meat, eggs, or tofu or anything like that. Just vegetables and fruits and nuts. It sounds like you don't get enough protein that way, but the body is a miraculous thing. Think of cows: they eat only grass, yet somehow they grow muscle. The body can make protein by itself. I'll be figuring out over the next few weeks if the theory holds up.

As for my feelings for my partner... I think at least at this phase it might actually be healthier if they were less strong, hahah!

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the orgasm thing. I think I'm over that hump by now. It's funny how much a night of cuddles can do for you.

And to think, only two months ago I never would've believed it possible I could be satisfied after a night of cuddling or orgasm less sex. It's amazing how much porn and masturbation messed with my brain, but I'm so glad the torture is over!

Small update

So, I just asked her to have some cuddle-only nights because I feel like I've been heating up a bit too much after that one night we had that was... something else. I don't know how to describe what it felt like. You guys probably know what I'm talking about. Not entirely sure if it's what you call a valley orgasm, but if not, it was definitely something very close to that.

Anyway, she happily agreed. I'm looking forward to a night full of cuddles today and couldn't be more content ^_^

Also, I discovered how awesome avocados are today, sadly there was only one left at the store or I'd be running back now to get more. And the last thing: I discovered the subject line! Hooray! No more cut off sentences for me!


Things are escalating without the "reuniting" part anyway. There was a point when she said I almost gave her an orgasm by just gently resting my hand on her back without really doing anything. If it goes on like this we'll be having sex just by looking into each other's eyes, we're that charged.

We already talked about how awkward we feel when holding hands in public for example. It feels like we're fucking right in front of everybody, except nobody appears to notice but us Wink

And avocados are amazing. I know I already mentioned that, but I felt that it was worth repeating.

The braggart nerd

Sigh... you make me feel like I'm bragging...

I think I am bragging, hahah!

Never thought I'd be the type of person who'd brag about their sexual prowess. I was just some geek sitting at his computer all day. Man, so much has changed in the last months...


Yes, that's what it feels like! For the first time in my life I'm having an adventure, hahah! I guess they really are out there :)

It also got me into the whole spiritual business. I'm eating like an ascetic monk now and doing yoga and martial arts. Heck I even signed up for some creepy cult-like thing called "kriya yoga", which I've been told by people I trust to be the "real thing"

And I keep meeting these strange "spiritual" people lately who talk about energies and ghosts and experiences and whatnot. And I'm utterly comfortable talking to them because for some reason, I'm sure I "know" a hell of a lot more than they do. My new girlfriend was one of them. She talked in reverent tones about how she was sometimes able to give "energy" to other people. She was confused when I shrugged it off as unimportant and told me it was really exciting. Again, I shrugged, said I'd try it, took her hand in mine and blew her mind. She went all "oh my god! The energy's just spilling out of you! How do you do that?"

I grinned and told her about nofap :)

Heheh, maybe I'm amazing, but

Heheh, maybe I'm amazing, but I'm still lazy and can't get over my phlegmatic butt when it comes to writing my papers for university :)

And a kundalini awakening sounds like fun. I've pretty much gotten rid of my whole "personality" anyway, so I don't think it could do a lot of damage to me. I've got my childhood woes sorted out and am happy all the time, so I don't think I'm one of those people for whom it would be dangerous.

And yes, men are amazing, and so are women, and so is everyone in between and everything under the sun!

Small update

The cuddle only night turned into Karezza sex twice. The first time it was pretty unexciting, the second time this afternoon was magnificent bliss again.

I haven't heated up at all these times, even though I expected I might escalate.

I also injured my girlfriend's back when trying to teach her how to do backwards rolls when we were playing around on the mattress laughing :(

I hope she's gonna be alright, I feel pretty bad about that despite the great sex...

Sigh... hahah, there's always something to feel bad about, isn't there? :)

Glad you're

tapping in again. Take it easy with the gymnastics. Wink Especially during the two weeks after orgasm. Call me superstitious, but I swear many folks are more vulnerable while their brains are returning to balance.


Oh, she's been bad with

Oh, she's been bad with gymnastics for a long while now, and no, she hasn't been over-orgasming that entire time :)

I think it's best for us to reduce our horseplay, period. I don't want to send her to the doctor's :P

Kriya Yoga . . .

it IS the real deal. I joined SRF over seven years ago. It's been life-altering. Don't know where you are learning Kriya Yoga, but that's where I was taught, and, "initiated." Yes, it sounds cult-ish, but if it's SRF, it's not. I have met wonderful people there. <3

It's in Switzerland

I'm excited. It's not really an organisation I think, but they have this lineage stuff on their website, and, as I said, I trust the person who told me to go there. He sent me to the Kriya Yoga seminar he went to himself, but I found another one that starts a bit earlier and when I told him about that one he said that was good as well and I should go.

He's been one of my more interesting Yoga teachers and I can discuss spirituality with him, which is fun. :)


Been reading it these days, actually. It's been put up as a "suggested reading" material on the website of the course I'm taking. I'm not far in yet, though, since I keep being distracted by the internet and rereading CPA - the German version this time (I bought some copies to give to my sister and my parents)

I think the book

is probably better in German. The translator was excellent from what I hear, and I encouraged her to adjust things to fit her culture. She even changed the title slightly, and I like hers better: The Poison On Cupid's Arrow.

About translation

I don't think a translation can ever be "better" than the original. Not that the original work contains some "untouchable" goodness that can never be reached, that is also stupid.

I'd just say the translation is "different"

Look at the Tao Te Ching and its different translations. None of them is the "best" translation - it's simply a good idea to read as many translations as you can :)

Also: she kind of had to change the title, it sounds stupid in German if you translate it directly.

Small update

We had sex twice yesterday for what to me seemed like unimaginable amounts of time. Trying to reconstruct it it was probably about an hour each.

I almost came both times, especially the first time where I had to do the forceful taoist thing and clench my muscles - and I still had a drop or two roll down my tip. I wonder if there's gonna be fallout from that.

Careful, little guy, you're walking on the edge...

I'll keep you guys posted and I'll try not to fall down that cliff :)

Seeking for The Edge

is, paradoxically, a symptom that you're revving your motor a little too high. (Instead of feeling satisfied, you're falling for the idea that you'll feel more satisfied if you amp things up. This is how biology herds us toward its goal. Smile )

But all experimentation is useful. That's what learning is all about.

Revvind down

I wasn't really revving anything anymore at that point, I just lay there inside her pretty much. And when I pulled out that alone was enough to almost make me come. Heheh :P

Evolution should've designed me better. I should be closest to orgasm when I'm still inside the woman, not after I already left. Bad lizard brain! Bad!

Sex is funny

Life wouldn't be good without a sex of humor. Luckily, my girlfriend has one as well. That first time when this karezza sex became really amazing and we were both just moaning and screaming uncontrollably we were also laughing at the top of our lungs because it was just too funny :)

yep that's how we learn

it takes quite a lot of practice, but it does produce fallout to be so edgy in my experience. Not immediately but several sessions like that can produce pretty significant fallout over a few days or a week.




We only had one very short super relaxed sex session today. It wasn't as mind blowing as other times, but at the same time so relaxing. Plus mega-cuddles. We're discovering new erogenous zones on each other all the time now. I think our whole bodies will end up being one. I can make her scream by kissing her neck, hahah, it's fantastic :)

I have burnt my porn

I have burnt my porn collection to Ashes.and I think to myself As a will power thing I haven't ejaculated or really really even wanked normally for at least 2 weeks so far. IM young 27 single but I feel frustrated that IM not having any sex with women. I don't see the point anymore in wanking IM fed up with it and how it just makes you heaps hornier than before. Then there's porn and it just goes on and on. Ill admit to having a prostitute addiction as I have only just stopped going. I know it's normal but IM suppressing it greatly for as long as possible until a woman actually wants me to give her a pleasurable
time. I have been enjoying porn since school onwards but now it's time for me to burn those addictions. I don't know I exercise hard and amazingly have more energy than if I was jerking off all the time. But I have the stranges fuzzy feeling running they my head since I stopped mb ,I feel bit crazy but otherwise strong minded like IM a wizard that'd cast a spell for himself not for any other thing. It only hurts me I feel when I dwdwelltll dwell on not having sex which a guy needs naturally,not having a relationship and getting on the porn which just makes more stupid.horny and addicted to fantasys that will never be a real experience. Sorry ool but IM done with damming my soul with that crap. I might need to hear about a wise word from a professional in this case or I don't know. I fill my head with grog but my brain is always biting my thoughts and I believe IM doing fine. But it's mega hard work so far.cheers

You're on the right track

You're on the right track mate, leave that shit behind. And try to wean yourself off the prostitutes. No, I'm not morally against it or anything, but prostitutes plain suck.

Keep up your abstinence challenge for a while and you'll be able to get real girls. And then you won't have to pay for it, plus there will be less emotional fallout.

Thankyou ppl for feedback. It

Thankyou ppl for feedback. It's welcomed;)...I don't know Marnia I get these strange partial head aches like a junkie going thru a withdrawal to say the least, IM sure most ppl are or are going thru that. And there's no pros no more cause one it's addictive and two it's risky if you get what I meen. I don't wants waste my juice on sex workers. meeting women?? I haven't really had an opportunity so far. But life is good IM not complaining really but on the sex stuff I don't know any more

sticking to the task (no mb)

I end up getting such a sore brain that I end up ejaculating very briefly and yeah lots of sperm shot out, funny no nearly as much as I thought,because it was suppressed then finally I had to.afterwards I still felt the same as wth the partial headache frikin weird. But no mb still is important goal as I think IM doing a good effort so far.


Thanks Marnia, some how doesn't download on my phone? But I aim to cut down on two things which are extremely addictive, cutting to no mb and cutting down on alcohol consumption. Because it has only enhanced my headaches and made it worse lol. Marnia when I was into porn, well once a week approx is my aim. I did let go other day, mb is fun and natural sometimes. I guess it's back to my my goal of cutting down or none at all. But not having a gf or any sex I can predict for a long time to come,the mb then the porn only gets more obsessive and your urges wanton let go more and more. I just hope IM not too old by the time I get a sexual
experience wth a woman again?

this will pass

it may be easier to cut down to zero for awhile. The headaches and other symptoms will pass. The key is to control fantasy. Fantasy in the brain is the same as porn, really, as the brain doesn't know the difference. 

And if you don't masturbate you are more likely to, after flatlining and withdrawal, send out potent signals that available women pick up on. And you will be more aggressive and assertive in a good way. There are a host of reasons why masturbation is really better to avoid for a long time.

Sure, a schedule would be nice, but most men here seem to end up masturbating quite a lot and not adhering to the schedule. And even on a schedule, masturbation drains you of initiative and drive to some extent.

So far headaches are passing

So far headaches are passing/other symptoms are slowly diminishing which is good, perhaps when IM next wth a woman she can give me a good jerk off, instead me doing it once again. That would be a thankful experience but see what happens. As I haven't gone or don't really go out that much,IM private guy mostly but when I go out this Saturday I hope to have a sexual f time with a woman that wants me. IM looking forward to something anyhow. Currently no mb for three days so far this week;)

Thanks IM sure I will,

Thanks IM sure I will, besides not just about Me it her to, however it's a night club possibly so I will have to Usse my gentleman ethic, manners and jokes as I found I end up mostly having fun that way as long as she feels comfortable wth me:)