Role of fantasy in partnership

Submitted by freedom on
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I didn’t see this topic when I searched. I heard an interview with Ian Kerner, author of She Comes First. He claims he’s on the other end of the spectrum from the ideas here. At times, he seemed a little unsure of himself about that so who knows.

The interview left me wondering about fantasy within partnership. Kerner suggests the mental stimulation is good (see e.g., It wasn’t clear if he felt potentially acting it out is good. Other sexologists are more cautious, especially when it comes to sharing fantasies. Most probably favor mental stimulation. For many, it’s perhaps impossible not to have fantasy that’s been programed by porn, media, etc.

What have folks here found works/doesn’t? Is anyone investigating these issues? Any literature suggestions on the topic?

I am realizing more and more

I am realizing more and more how injurious fantasy really is, in all guises. I aim for Karezza, no orgasms, to the greatest extent possible. I know sometimes my partner likes fantasy as it helps her reach orgasm and I will sometimes help her with that but I don't really like it, and for myself I find it causes me to spill over into the dopamine type erotic sex which leads to orgasm. I have resolved recently to be much more vigilant in fact. It raises my chances of having an orgasm that I don't want and a resulting week or two of ups and downs that I dislike. And this can be a fantasy that starts with my wife, it doesn't have to be a porn fantasy. But it takes me out of the here and now and leads down this path that is not what I want. 


I read Kerner's book in my

I read Kerner's book in my pre-Karezza days and gave his techniques a try for a while.

I am much happier with Karezza.

I was influenced by porn -- because I assumed that that was what women, such as my wife, really wanted, but were just too demure to ask for -- and tried to picture and act out what I saw online.

When we switched to Karezza, my wife said she was much, much happier with that approach than what I used before.

I do not use fantasy during Karezza. During the day, here and there, I do fantasize about my wife, but it is about having more Karezza with her.

Anything that is 'hot', like heavy foreplay, puts me in a position for accidental ejaculation. Fantasy does that to me. So, I purposely stay away from it. And, I do not have room for it during Karezza, as I am visualizing energy circulation patterns a lot. Lastly, I do not miss fantasy during Karezza, as the sex is just outstanding, and much, much more satisfying than before.


I read Ian Kerner's 'She comes first' a few years ago, and I don't remember there being much talk of fantasy in it. He seemed more concerned with technique than anything, with a long series of check list filled cunnilingus procedures to go through, with the single aim of securing as powerful as possible an orgasm for 'her'. In this respect, the only recommended fantasy was the internally projected end result and the means of attaining it, which drove the action.

I didn't like the book, mainly because I have never been able to follow those sorts of detailed instructions, especially when sexually aroused, but also because paying such scrupulous attention to whatever effect I was having seemed to get in the way of my own enjoyment. In effect, my pleasure became a measure of the pleasure I was giving. I found it very refreshing years later to come across Nicole Daedone's contribution to oral sex, which emphasised slowing down to snail speed and concentrating, minutely, on the pleasure derived (by the giver) from the immediate point of contact, regardless of where it was leading. She doesn't suggest deliberately avoiding orgasm, but she certainly recommends it as something not to spend time thinking about, never mind trying to attain.

Fantasy in the context of sex can means different things. The article by Ian Kerner talks of dreams, which hardly qualify as something we have any control over, implying that the more wildly we imagine events, whether asleep or awake, the better, even if these events are never going to be put into practice. Is this nothing more than the daydream someone might have to while away a boring journey? What about dressing up as a fireman and pretending to break into your bedroom to 'save' your partner; or imagining your partner is someone else while actively making love to them?

The first of these seems utterly normal; the second just a couple of stages removed from joining a local drama group; only the third fills me with unease.

I fantasise in mostly the first way. At times during the day I will imagine having sex with someone. This is usually my wife, and involves little more than what we are likely to do at another time, or else is a simple rerun of something we have previously done. Sometimes, it's an anonymous 'other', also involving little more than what I do with my wife anyway, but in an unusual context, with the added excitement of being adulterous.

The other form my fantasies take is when scheduling and anticipating lovemaking. In order to fix a time and then remember to turn up, I find I have to think of sex in an involving sort of way. I don't plan it, exactly, but I do imagine what might happen, even of only in outline. This is a snapshot type of viewpoint, rather than the rolling movie I might favour at other times.

When we actually get together naked, the only fantasy I'm aware of is occasionally wondering what might happen next ...

Of course, the really big fantasy element (fantasy, in the sense it remains in the future) has to be orgasm, the more explosive the better. So long as it is on the cards, it is hard to keep the idea of achieving it from monopolising events. This is perhaps why it seems so easy to stay fantasy free during Karezza. I doubt Ian Kerner would recognise this definition of orgasm, though.