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Submitted by Aphrodites Chela on
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A couple of weeks past my last depression. This is so frustrating. I know what to do. I've had success...but I keep sliding back and forgetting....and I want so much. I'm even thinking about finding someone to karezza with if she doesn't start showing up (Boy, that sure will help our marriage).
The latest "deal" is that I am not to bother her in bed prior to 9:00 AM unless she declares she is not trying to go back to sleep. That's a hell of a deal right thar....

Speaking of deals, I made one with my inner boss. Write one report before blogging here.....balance....its so easy to get lost here.

I'm doing what bonding behaviors I can muster, but she bristles at every touch or attempt to talk about it (eg: the great deal we worked out).
We've had a week with both her family and mine. That's always a challenge.
My plan is to keep up with the BB's but I'm afraid to touch her, or talk to her about my need, or ask for ANYTHING. My need is so great that it underlies and colors everything I do.
She knows and I think it wounds her (too) to say no.
I'm jealous of the love she showers on the new baby. I want that look of love.
Losing my sense of entitlement to sex with her, the idea that she owes me, that she is responsible for my feelings, moves my depression to sadness. Sadness at least has some energy to it.
We are so fragile
Much love to you all


Second Thought

I just looked at a picture of my wife. I don't feel loving toward her right now. Should I fake the bonding behaviors? Should I be pleasant but avoid her?
We're going to a wedding today and I am afraid of acting out (disappearing, getting loud, flirting). Should I declare my fears and my need? "Baby I'm a mess. Can you give me 5 for some healing? I'm afraid of going out with you feeling like this."

Those alligators

can look unappealing and unapproachable at times, eh? I feel your frustration, bro'.

My advice for the day:
1. Morita therapy. That might help you feel more loving.
2. Stay away from alcohol.

I don't have an opinion about whether you should "fake" the bonding behaviors or declare your fears and need. (Personally, I generally would not, but that's just me.) If you do try those things, please let us know how it goes.

How did it go?

I'm a big proponent of "fake it till you make it" bonding behaviors, as you know. It's OK if she doesn't respond, but keep your touch generous, not needy. Try it. What non-erotic touch does she most like? Start there. Notice how YOU feel afterward, even though it wasn't the look (or touch) of love you craved.

Dope Dope Dopamine

Thanks Marnia and CF but too late.
She was standing, leaning over the desk, talking on the phone in panties and bra. I went for the dope. I came up behind and pressed myself to her and caressed her lovely thighs. In the shower I said gimme some sex and held her slippery against me for 10 seconds (my sense of time seems to be amazing). Nice erection, good shot of dope....I feel much better.

I don't know what non erotic touch she likes.....35 years and I say that. These last few days she flinches at every loving touch until the sexy groping today.

Love y'all

Well, you lived to tell about it

Sounds like things worked out OK. Smile

If she's in a good mood today, maybe it would be a good time to ask her why she flinches when you touch her. As others have mentioned, it sounds like she has some deep-seated resentment toward you. Call for a truce? Point out that you have turned over a new leaf? (It really seems like you have - at least you gave up the porn. Maybe you are still needy, but isn't that just part of being human?)

It all comes down to self-confidence

It all comes down to self-confidence.

Man I really feel for you, I can understand your frusteration. I would suggest tho, that your wife's response to you or lack thereof has less to do with grabby/dopamine driven behavior versus gentle lovemaking than it does with how confident you are in how you approach her and how solid you are in your core self.

It's a tough one tho, because we're not islands unto ourselves, totally able to create confidence from thin air in the absence of support from our mate. Still, I think that if you can center yourself and muster up the self-confidence you have in this approach, and then just approach her from confidence, you will eventually get the receptivity you are not getting through verbal negotiation.

Your more confident sense of yourself as a desiring, addicted man is still turning her on more because its farmiliar and your are firm in your identity as someone who is a dopamine fiend. She's simply rewarding you for the behavior that you exhibit that is the most confident behavior.

Rather than negotiating times to make love and trying to discuss this whole approach, it might be more useful to outline confidently to her why the approch has been centering and meaningful for YOU. Don't focus on her. Then make a request of her that she support you in what you have seen to be a valuable area of growth. Ask her for her support in your spiritual growth. Let her know that you are confident enough about the gains made for yourself that you will continue to take the personal steps you have up until this point to find out where else it could lead. Let her know that this is YOUR personal decision, and that while you would love to have her more on board, you admire her ability to not play fake with something that isn't resonating with her yet.

There must be some qualities in her resolve that you admire, even as it drives you crazy. If you could find a way to see through the negative aspects of her close-mindedness (her confidence in her way of seeing things), and verbally voice appreciation for the positive qualities behind that, it might evoke the positive manifestations of those qualities more.

Just a riff . . . for whatever its worth. Wishing you two all the best as you walk through this maze. And keep up that strength you've had! It's truly impressive!

Thanks Guys

Your insights are so helpful. I really appreciate the time you spend to help us out. New Leaf and Confidence y'all are so right on.

More Krazy Karezza

I planned my day so that we could get in bed together. Did some work outside, showered, shaved, shared breakfast. (This used to be really scary....setting myself up...frequently led to a big fall. But I am confident that I can remain loving, whatever happens....seems now, the only thing that gets to me, is going too long without affection.) I declare my intention to bed her this day. She does not commit but as I bring it up from time to time ("So maybe after...we'll spend some loving time together in bed?") Finally she says, "After I shower."
Connecting with her this past week has been difficult and it was no different in bed. She lay there passive, so I did the still karezza loving thing...but she is not present. I ask, "What do we need to do to get you here?"
She says, "I just want you to cum so you'll stop bugging me."
"You misunderstand my desire. I want a loving connection. I want to be kissed and held by you."
"Just get it over with." So a little oral lubrication, a wonderful entry, a couple of positions (I'm finally understanding something of the Kama Sutra).
"Why don't move?"
"It's not what I want. Do you want hot sex?"
"I don't care, just finish." I, maintaining a loving attitude, withdraw.
A couple of hours later I check in, "How ya doing? Was the karezza ok?" "Yeah it's no big deal, but why can't we have sex like we used to?"
"What I want from sex is a loving, spiritual connection. I'm not interested in orgasm. We can have that old kind of sex but one of two things is going to have to happen. You must verbally ask for it, or use your body to convey your desire. I'm good with stillness, and if that's what you present to me, that's what we'll do." I shrug as I say, "As for bugging you, it's summer, it's hot, and you're not wearing much clothes."
So I'm feeling good and my Isadora seems about the same. This is an old pattern, her offering herself to me to gain peace. And I'm seeing how much my desire carried her through sex all these years.
I got my copy of Cupid's PA yesterday. This morning I asked if she would do the 21 Step program. "Don't bug me." I'm not giving up.

6 Full Months on the Path

I no longer seek orgasm (it's been months) and my Isadora still doesn't know what to make of it. She's not big on the idea of karezza/meditation/practice. She figures if we're going to bother to get naked in bed, we should fuck and cum. She's made some noises about missing the hot sex. I figure what the's been so long, we can go there. If it's only every few months, I can deal with the hangover. Our cuddling is still by my initiation with minimal response from her. I want more but I'm ok to wait....for the most part. I no longer see her as an alligator...more like a filly who shies easily. There's still some taming to do ("The Little Prince" Anton St. Exupery). I'm feeling the love and giving several hugs a day...falling a little short on other Bonding Behaviors.
I am still walking in the shadow of my addiction...still trying to sort out my Need. It's clear to me that most of the sex I sought was a way for me to get affection. It's a bit (less) of a struggle to work my own program and cut back on the expectations.