Almost 100 days

Submitted by keygrove on
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Greetings All. My wife and I found Cupid's Poisoned Arrow back in January. We bought two copies, I've read mine at least three times all the way through. It's been a long and hard journey since I made the decision to walk away from internet porn in December 2012. In fact, it took me until April 2015 to finally let go. Since then my wife and I have been able to break through so many barriers we didn't even know we had! We've been able to dramatically reduce the negative patterns in our lives and create a harmonious relationship with ourselves, each other and the world at large.

My career as a self-employed accountant is beginning to take off and I expect my monthly income to double by the end of the year. It isn't any "super power" that has magically been bestowed; it's simply that clouds have removed to the sun that was already shining the whole time. It's not like this stuff just magically takes away urges or temptations; sometimes they are so heavy you can barely breathe. But it's about knowing that you are bonding with another human being who shares your same values, goals and direction. It's about realizing that together you are on your own spiritual journey and it's worth far more than the small pleasures that your biology can give you. The calm peace that bonding provides my family is something that I cherish and value more than anything else in this world. I give my heartfelt and utmost thanks and gratitude to Marnia and Gary for providing tools with which to build a stable life with.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart Marnia! It's just what I needed to live again.

Alex in Delmarva

Will do! Thanks again for

Will do! Thanks again for everything!

Lately I've been getting the feeling that in order to succeed at whatever we choose to do in this life it requires a great deal of "want to". And that want to has to line up in our subconscious or we are going to feel a boat load of tension. For a long time I didn't understand what that tension meant, only ways to make it go away (and then regret whatever I did to make it go away). A lot of programs, techniques and styles of overcoming habits and addictions often do not address how to handle our subconscious wants and desires. If they do address it the solutions offered mostly center around will power and how to increase it. To contrast the macho way of attempting to overcome an addiction, there are bonding-based behaviors. With bonding-based behaviors I am finding that my subconscious desires are shifting and I'm no longer feeling quite the disturbing amounts of tension that I used to always feel when addicted to porn. It's sort of a "learn as you earn" process where you're having a blast changing your entire being. Fundamental change isn't something humans enjoy very much. Giving ourselves a way to enjoy that change through active bonding cues is priceless.

After a few months of less-than-perfect bonding (it's baseball season... guilty for flipping that TV on before bonding sometimes) my wife and I are feeling very connected. We even sprinkled in a little bit of what the brain rebooting community calls "soft-mode" where you eschew porn-related masturbation orgasms for orgasms with a real partner. We didn't realize we had normal sex 15 times over the past 100 days. Even with those orgasms, the bonding behaviors have done more than blunt my brain rebooting and our passion cycles. We are excited to take the next 100 days and see what it feels like to bond without orgasm or sex of any kind. We feel like there are no limits to how great we can feel!

Experimentation is the best way

Everyone here seems to work out their own "rhythm." Some never orgasm on purpose (even though it sometimes happens). Others do it once a menstrual cycle (just before it starts).

It's really fascinating to explore and learn. It's just sad that all of this isn't common knowledge. Instead we're being sold pixel-driven orgasms as a panacea.


Yeah I get the feeling that every couple that becomes involved with Karezza in any way, shape or form determines their own rhythm over time. For those of us coming off of internet porn addiction, the passion cycle from sex with a loving partner seems like a joke at first. And then you realize that if you feel great without the porn cycle, how good would you feel without the orgasm cycle? What might change biochemically over time without introducing further orgasms to the body?

Unfortunately this is where it tends to get esoteric and clothed in a bunch of cultural and religious dogma. Clear answers from open-minded yet skeptical seekers are only now becoming available as we have communities such as these on the internet. People are beginning to explore their outer limits instead of just accepting what comes natural. I'm curious to find out for myself what happens as orgasm and intercourse are eschewed and replaced by a purely bonding-based relationship. As ironic as it sounds, I'm excited to experience peace and calm for a change!

Yes, it's a stubborn bunch

who are willing to explore such an antithetical idea. However, since I first started writing about this, more and more research has come out confirming a neurochemical cycle after climax. I've listed what we've bumped into here: Research | Reuniting

Of course, no scientists dare say much about the impact this must often have on lovers and their perceptions. That's the elephant in the room. And without acknowledging that potential factor, no one thinks to experiment for themselves.

Weird how in such a modern world, the most basic elements of human sexuality can be completely invisible.

I'm beginning to think "orgasms" are "soma" from Brave New World.  Biggrin

orgasms suck

for me, when I do come, it is amazingly intense. But afterwards for days I feel down, sad, depressed and irritable.

I think if I did come a lot, I wouldn't have these strong aftereffects, but I would be living life that is 25% as good as now. And sex itself is SO pleasurable and amazing, it makes up for no orgasms by a hundred fold. I can't describe how much better it is today, it is beyond words.

My wife continues to have orgasms. They are not that often usually, and I'm okay with not coming when she is mostly, but when she comes it is a bit more difficult to not come. But I usually manage. It is ALWAYS so much better if I don't come, that all I do is remember these incredibly bad feelings and usually it isn't difficult not to come.


I feel the same way

Yeah I totally understand where you are coming from. Orgasm is such a peak experience that even though it's only about 20 seconds of clock time from the start of the overwhelming sensations to the end point it is still incredibly addicting. Anybody who has meditated can also relate to the same fractal idea of searching for that peak experience. The mostly thoughtless states of mind tend to bring out the finest sensations imaginable. And you want to return to that well to drink often. Orgasm is the first experience the vast majority of us have with a thoughtless state of mind. That glimpse into the infinite is enough to send a young man with internet access into the very depths of his soul searching for the peak.

And then there is bonding. I think you were generous with the 25% figure! Life with bonding is like tunnel vision lifting so that you can see the beauty of the landscape of life. No esoteric teachings or spiritual beliefs necessary. You get the "known instead of the belief or hope" as Bob Monroe was fond of saying. It's something that anybody can explore for themselves. The 100 day challenge not to orgasm could be re-contextualized as the 100 day challenge to bond. It's something I'm definitely excited to explore. The constant edginess after an orgasm becomes unbearable once you've been exposed to ideas such as CPA and YBOP.

Interesting you should say this

I think you're right about the power of peak experiences. They feel so "right" that we just know they must be part of The Answer.

It's very difficult to conceive that one's life could be more harmonious and enjoyable without them. Most people won't even experiment. And certainly not until they have hit a wall with conventional sex.

How do you even bring up the subject? I can see why the Daoists used the "peak orgasm" and "valley orgasm" terminology, even though the latter is likely a very different experience neurochemically.


I think the Daoists are

I think the Daoists are alluding to the same principle that James Hilton made famous with his Shangri-La in "Lost Horizons". In the novel the main character speaks at length with the head lama at Shangri-La about the theme of "timelessness". What would life feel like to us if we were immortal and literally had all the time in the world? Our lives, and their daily routines, would eventually look a lot less like an orgasm and more like a night-long cuddle. The pleasure of listening to ocean waves versus watching the ladies stroll down the boardwalk. One leaves you refreshed and expanded, and the other leaves you hungry and chemically charged.

I also think that a lot of the pleasure from those peak orgasms has a lot to do with the dopamine lowering relief that comes afterwards, as mentioned in CPA. In addiction therapy, it is common to find techniques that try to take you back to the feeling just BEFORE you did the act. In the case of PMO addiction or sex addiction, obviously we're feeling a great deal of tension and excitement. If we can't relieve it we say that we are "blue-balled." This relief of pain is what we call happiness. After experiencing true bonding with another human being, I believe that we are selling ourselves far short of what we are capable of feeling. Just the brief moments of complete and total peace that I have felt with my wife in our new bonding-based relationship is enough to want to go through any temporal pain to remove all the barriers to that peace and calm. Conventional sex has absolutely nothing neuro-chemically speaking to do with peaceful, calm states of consciousness. Bonding-based relationships, as laid out clearly in CPA, have everything to do with these states of consciousness.

I think this conversation will expand over time as a greater number of people are waking up to the fact that internet pornography is a serious and debilitating addiction. Conventional sex that eschews porn may be a solution for a short time. But couples are still going to have the passion cycle to contend with and that will spark the search for further answers. It didn't take my wife and I long to realize that if conventional sex without my PMO addiction gave us a lot more vitality, then bonding without orgasm could be the very key we've always spiritually sought.


The ironic part of the rise of ED is that it also opens up the idea of abstinence and transmutation to a far wider audience than ever before. Historically thought to be the realm of the monk only, a lot of young people are taking seriously the idea of life post-orgasm/sexual stimulation. Without the rise of pornography I think a lot of us would have just accepted what came after orgasms. I'm young enough to not know a life before pornography-based orgasms, so I don't have a full picture to go on. But I can say this: true passion between two lovers that creates a passion-cycle is about half as unpleasant as a passion-cycle to porn. I'm not sure I would have really taken any Eastern philosophy serious without getting burned by both softcore and hardcore forms of pornography for many years. It pushed me into finding books and ideas like CPA. I can remember reading Swami Satchitananda as a teenager and sort of glancing over the celibacy required in a serious practice of Yoga. Now I understand more fully why I would to do something with my sexual energy rather than expel it through sex.

I'm grateful that I grew up with porn for those reasons. I feel like life is going to be a lot more colorful without orgasms. The calmer pleasures will take the place of the peaks. A slow, steady perpetual ride up the mountain of peace instead of a rocket ride to the summit of pleasure, pausing briefly, and then careening for the lowest valley.