To Be or Not to Be … Aroused … that is the question

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Submitted by KevinJ on
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It’s obvious to me in recent discussions regarding Karezza-style lovemaking that there are generally two schools of thought: To be aroused or not to be aroused. Strangely enough, I don’t think the two camps are ever going to totally agree here. But in general, I think it’s safe to assume, that it most cases women need some degree of safety and arousal before they can begin to feel open to having sex with men.

In conventional sex, many women engage in ‘duty sex’ all the time and feel little or nothing. Yet, it doesn’t stop them from “putting out” because they still have the option of allowing the man to give them a quick, peak orgasm. Though many conclude that it’s good enough, the fact is, most simply settle for that option. The men feel exonerated, while the women get through it with at least something.

And since this kind of primitive sex seems to be the common style that the sexperts have generally decided to promote (cosmopolitan, Dr. Oz, Dr. Ruth), I’m thinking that perhaps the problem here has to do with a deeper issue – lack of arousal. I feel that arousal should be just for the pure enjoyment of it, not a means to an end. Having a heightened sense of delicious “turn on” is wonderful. The only concern here is “how to get and stay there without going over.” It is as if most people assume that to be aroused, automatically implies that they have to finish up with an orgasm. Many feel that once they become aroused, they can’t hold back because the sensations will sweep them away in a torrent of intense pleasure.

On the other hand, I know a lot of women who say, “What desire, I don’t have any sexual desire, I’m done with that.” But it’s also true that there are women who have just as much hunger for sex as men, maybe even more, only it’s buried under layers of repressed emotional pain and abuse, either individually or collectively. Sadly, the instruction manuals and articles today keep advocating that women should be content to go after one or two peak orgasms. This is just bad advice. That’s never going to turn a woman on or make her want to open up to her innate, natural desire for intimacy, pleasure and passion. Our culture is settling for something that will never satisfy women (or men either).

As a man, I can tell you, it’s much more exciting to be involved with a woman who is turned on to sex, not the hot kind that’s depicted in movies, but the kind that means she’s turned on to life; she wants to make love. She wants to be close to you and have fun. I think we should begin to recognize that being “turned on” is a good thing, and that it has benefits that extend throughout all aspects of daily life.

Even though the emphasis in Karezza is often centered on achieving stillness, being slow and relaxed during intercourse, it’s very important to have pleasure. Because not having enough pleasure brings on a deep hunger in us. It leaves us empty, dead, bored, unfulfilled. And it’s this hunger for pleasure that keeps us looking outside ourselves to find comfort in other things, such as food, booze, drugs, wealth, porn, shopping, adventures, and novel sex.

So the point I want to bring up is this: Sensation and arousal are essential elements in Karezza style sex. There are some women who can get sensitized fairly easy in sex, and other’s who can’t. The secret is to find a way to bring a level of balance, for both the man and the woman, so that there can be the right amount of enjoyment during genital contact. When that happens, intercourse can be a mutually pleasurable and nourishing experience for both.

But when a woman’s vagina is dry, tight and feels pain, it’s probably due to the fact that she’s not aroused. Therefore, it’s not going to be very much fun for her or the man. When this is the case, the woman either has to resort to using a finger or a vibrator or allow the man to do oral sex on her to heat her up. This, however, is a manual approach. It’s not the same as fostering her sexual sensitivity “naturally” or organically through slow, tender, direct genital contact.

I remember back in high school. I liked dating girls, but what I was really hoping for was a chance to “make out”. Since I didn’t want to use condoms and didn’t want to get her pregnant, I figured out how to “do it” and have fun too. We’d kiss and snuggle and fondle and roll around…everything we could, except penetration. There was one girl though who really wanted to get turned on by having me stimulate her clitoris with my penis. We’d lie down on our side, face to face, and then she’s wrap her leg over mine. While we tenderly kissed, I would slowly and gently glide my penis all around her clitoris. She’d get so turned on and wet, it was amazing. I thought this way of making love was sooo cool, problem was, I couldn’t last long enough, then …. you know… finished … over … good night dear.

So now, years later, I’ve rediscovered how awesome this wonderful approach to lovemaking is. For women who don’t feel much enjoyment during intercourse, it’s a way to give them a little help, especially when she needs to be turned on in a very natural, feminine way. Fingers, tongue and vibrators and the usual tools are okay, but it’s much more electrifying and sensual for her with a hard, vibrant penis and its’ silky head.

Once a man learns to control himself, then he can learn to move slowly and avoid ejaculation. This is when he can truly be in service to his woman for as long as she wants and needs. In this way, the woman can feel the man’s pure sexual energy directly on her, without fear of him losing control and ending her pleasure. And if she too is willing to avoid peak orgasm, she can ride and sustain excitement longer and deeper instead of rushing toward a climax. Sometimes it’s great to think of Karezza sex as a form of “making out,” a playful, enlivening and innocent way to bond.

In the end, I think what frustrates women is when the guy isn’t reliable enough. When he can’t hold the space to gently ignite her with long and SLOW passionate, focused attention, then it’s a real deal breaker. A woman in lockdown can’t access or open to her natural, innate desire for intimacy because she needs time to absorb the sensations in her body rather than being rushed along through a windstorm, striving to reach the finish line.

The man has to be able to be okay with not having intercourse if she doesn’t want to or it hurts. By using his wand as an energy sending instrument, he can be there and allow her the freedom and opportunity to experience pleasure in a deep and satisfying new way. This simple approach is probably a revolutionary experience for any woman who has felt she has to “give in” to conventional mating sex just to please the man.

Great point Kevin

"Once a man learns to control himself, then he can learn to move slowly and avoid ejaculation. This is when he can truly be in service to his woman for as long as she wants and needs. In this way, the woman can feel the man’s pure sexual energy directly on her, without fear of him losing control and ending her pleasure. And if she too is willing to avoid peak orgasm, she can ride and sustain excitement longer and deeper instead of rushing toward a climax. Sometimes it’s great to think of Karezza sex as a form of “making out,” a playful, enlivening and innocent way to bond."

This such a great point you make, you are so right. I hadn't thought about in that sense, that it gives a woman all the time she needs without worrying about things ending too soon. My wife is so relaxed since we started (5 weeks ago) and I am sure this is one of the reasons why, the stress and worry about intercourse ending before she was ready are over. When we had conventional intercourse it lasted a long time, 30 or 45 mins, but it did not have enough quality, bonding time, like we have now, it was just good ole sex, glad those days are behind us!

I'm really glad you wrote this, but still a question...

I see the value in karezza for my wife and myself, and we have decided that we would like to give it a try. But, I gotta tell ya: it hasn't been easy for my wife. I enjoy it so much. I learned that if I can just be slow and sensual in my movements, I don't have a problem with just loving the experience without orgasm / ejaculation. It's great, for me.

But for her it's a different story. On one hand, she really, really loves having me inside of her now. The experience is awesome. However, for the last two times we made love with no orgasm, she ended up being extremely frustrated and really hurt emotionally. I try to take it slow, nothing that is so exciting, but she gets very revved up easily. In the past, her orgasms had been achieved through oral or finger stimulation, mostly with the clitoris or her g spot, followed by a very brief intercourse. We also admitted to each other that we maturbated at least weekly. Now, with intercourse only along with breast stimulation, she gets extremely aroused with out any release. She loves the bonding time. She loves that I can stay inside of her much longer. Both of us are having a second honeymoon. However it's also making my wife crazy. We try to relax and just enjoy the moment, but she can't. She gets too excited and then too frustrated at not being able to "finish." After our second try, she is thinking that as much as she enjoys having me inside of her, the intense frustration of not climaxing is getting to be too much for her.

So, how do I help my wife to just enjoy the arrousal and everything else with it, without having this urge to find a way to go "over the edge?" Or, should we give in and help her along the path to orgasm? I'm concerned about moodiness, and I'm thinking the hormones are just crazy right now.

What is your advice?

Balance the pleasure with awareness

I think it is the same for women as it is for men. First, men have to learn how to stop ejaculating and hold the space for the women to tap into her own pleasure, and the women eventually have to learn to go with the ride without going over the cliff. Then it simply becomes a dance of two holy-energies, giving and recieving the divine flow of God's love through male and female. This is something each person has to value and choose. And I beleive it takes present moment awareness while making love so you don't get caught up in the flood of energy to the point you lose your connection. Orgasm is a great temptation, but at some point it always leads to a level of disconnection.

Why not let her have it?

If your wife is saying that she wants to have an orgasm, and is frustrated by not getting one, then I think you should let her have it. It may be that she just needs to have a period of time where she gets all the orgasms that she wants before realizing that it is really isn't that great for her.

When you have decided that you are done, you can just pull out and then manually stimulate her the rest of the way.

It may be that every so often she will want an orgasm and then she will be happy without one for a while. There is nothing wrong with that.

When you are doing any kind of spiritual or energy practice, it is best not to force things. There is a danger in becoming obsessive about semen retention or karezza. If your body really needs to ejaculate and you fight with it, that isn't going to go anywhere good. If your wife really wants an orgasm and you fight her on it, that can lead to resentment and her abandoning the practice. You have to be compassionate with your own body, and your wife. Be patient with the process.

and that's what I decided too,

so thanks for the affirmation, Louie. We both made the decision a couple of weeks ago to give her what she desired. Now, she is at the point where she would like us to begin the Ecstatic Exchanges as outlined in Marnia's book, and to journey toward karezza. So, we just began last night with the first exchange. This is all very new to both of us. Up until now we have been very unfamiliar with sex as a spiritual or energy practice. We grew up in the more repressive western environment, you know. So anyway, I will continue to post my thoughts on our journey on my blog. Thanks again for your insight.

Good advice as usual Louie

Thanks for laying it out there. I always talk about "tiptoeing around our biology" because force so often backfires...or creates "crazy-think."

At the same time, we found that we had to be consistent for about 3 weeks to really see where the benefits were coming from. So it's great if people can make that experiment at some point in their adventure.

great point

It isn't a good idea to pressure someone else about your own ideas. I will help my wife if she asks me. I enjoy it immensely of course. But I don't offer.

I do think I can be a source of pressure for her and that isn't nice of me, so I try not to pressure her. I have not had an orgasm in quite a few months and she's had a bunch. I figure when and if she decides to change that she'll let me know.

I have found that after her orgasm, her vagina isn't that welcoming, for some reason, so we leave that to the end.


I'm a big fan of leading by example. How about you get a handle on your urge to orgasm, a pretty tall order in itself for any guy, and let her find her way. What I would not do is "help her on her path to orgasm", as you say. Let her find her own way there. The male ego gets right off making a woman orgasm, keep that one in check, in my opinion. I find ego gratification rarely leads to meaningful connection.

I would bet if you get focused and become non-orgasmic yourself she will join you. Maybe for a little while she'll take you for a wild ride but that will pass. Let her have her urges and fullfilment of them. Your clear direction will become more attractive to her in time.

I agree

I agree with Darryl~~I read something the other day about a man's need to give a woman an orgasm and how you have to ask yourself whether it is altruism or egotism? (this author said it's usually the latter)

For me, I go into every connection with my lover with no expectations as to whether one will happen or not. His penis actually decides whether I do or not~~my mind stays void of any orgasmic thoughts, but sometimes his penis will take me to that place and I have no choice. And I love that feeling of abandonment. So far I've not suffered the usual "effects" of having an orgasm that way. And neither has he~~it's truly the best of both worlds~~just go in with no expectations and if something happens, it happens and if it doesn't, it wasn't meant to happen that time.

Agree to commit

It might be a good idea to talk with your wife about what you both want. From what we have found it takes commitment from both of us not to orgasm. As a couple I feel like you should be on the same page, not only in bed but everywhere. If your focus is on your sex life you may need to do a little adjusting. As a pastor and as the leader of Gods children you are called to be a leader, that means being the leader of your life and a leader in your marriage, your church and in the kingdom in general. So suck it up and be the man God has called you to be, a leader not a follower. God has blessed you with a wife, and he has equipped you with everything you need to be the man she needs, maybe you should stop overthinking it and acting like you don't know what your role as a husband really is. A woman needs a man who is a leader, not a follower. You wouldn't be a pastor if you were a follower. so, start thinking with your big head instead of your little head, otherwise it gets way too confusing. The little head asks all those crazy questions and it can cause us to question way too many things, (which is what i think may be happening to you) and the big head listens to that " still small voice" and knows that we have a God who is with us every step of the way, yes even in our bedroom and even during intercourse with our mates, the mate he knew we needed. That means we can be at peace, regardless of where we are or what we are doing, including making love with our wives, not worrying about all the issues, just being who we are, Gods children, called, chosen, loved, forgiven, redeemed, and blessed, especially if you have a wife that God has blessed you with! If you as a couple are ready for Karezza then go with it, if not then maybe right now isnt the right time, sounds like you are both doing pretty good. We were where you are, not too long ago and then we discovered Karezza. Enough preaching, hang in there, read the Bible, pray together and God will have something to say to you when you seek His council. Karezza will always be there when you guys are ready for it. You will know when it's right. Blessings, Luv2fly.

Thank you!!

Thank you thank you thank you for your kind and caring thoughts. I also asked this basic question at the bottom of my own blog, (Chrysalis), and received some very good responses there too. My final post there is longer, but essentially what you all just said confirmed what I had decided even before reading them. And luv, you are right. I am looking forward to ministry so much more now. For a long time I had believed myself to be somewhat of a fraud. On the outside I appeared confident. On the inside I was crying that I couldn't even have peace in my own home and in my own bedroom. Discipleship happens everywhere, and especially the bedroom.

So, now if PW feels the need to go over the edge, I will help her get to that place. It's no longer an ego thing. Just a desire to express my deep love for my wife.

Now, nothing is perfect of course. If I had my druthers, I would bring her over the top through PVI. However, that alone, while being very slow, awesome, and blissful, brings her to a state of "almost but not quite." In order for her to arrive at full orgasm, either oral or fingers are required. I gladly accomodate. I don't feel any shame about that. It's just that I would hope that someday PVI alone will be enough. Or, she will eventually get to the point where she no longer requires it at all. Time will tell.

Thanks again!

kevin, i am adding one tick in the

"stimulate the clitoris" column.  based on my karezza experience of one week, i have already discovered that going too slow can result in dryness and tightness.  even though i feel like i might be risking an orgasm, it's better for me to stimulate the clitoris a bit and become more wet and open up in there (it's the difference between him bumping into my cervix and causing me pain or just sliding in comfortably).

he's awesome!

he's been pretty much all positive about the experience, and we're about to make a second 3-week experiment, and actually schedule ourselves for more frequent, short cuddling, etc, to stay even.  sometimes we went a few days in between and it got unmanageable.

I was just thinking about you

Great to hear a report. I'm glad you're still enjoying the process of fine-tuing. At first, there's just a lot of "hunger," and daily contact is essential. Gradually, you'll have a bit more flexibility...but by then the daily snuggling will be a habit just because it feels good.

That said, we still notice a subtle anxiety builds if we go too long, so we do our best to snuggle daily one way or the other, whether or not we can have sex.

my partner has no arousal

and I'm not happy with that anymore. She is really in a mode of defensiveness and putting up with sex without the deep fulfillment that i get out of it. No longer gonna let this go.

I think a little arousal is really important. Especially at the beginning. She has had none. When she does have arousal, it is quick to the orgasm route for her, so no in between time.

We had a serious talk about this. It was upsetting for her but not that upsetting because we do so much bonding. And today sex was much better in a sense, about an hour, which is a record for us.

She said, I don't feel aroused. I don't feel a charge when I kiss you or do anything. I said, just do it anyway. And relax. And you will begin to feel things. You have to be there in your lips or your body when you are stroking me or I'm stroking you, or when I'm inside you. You just relax and focus on that.

She agreed, her mind is all over the place. I asked for 1) a little arousal, just a little, to start, and 2) she focus on her sensations in her body, her breasts or her pelvic floor, and when she notices thoughts wander, bring attention back there.

I've been going seven months through this type of sex and getting a tremendous amount out of it, and it's time for my partner to get the benefits and feelings that she deserves. So I'm not standing by and letting things continue on their present path.

Pleasure Deficiency

Our experience has been somewhat different from others. We were both deficient in pleasure. We tried working with Margot Anand's tantra books which advocated intense orgasm. After an inital honeymoon period of exciting thrills (about 3 weeks), each session began to wane more and more as time went on. That was when the conflicts and the dis-satisfaction started to creep in. It was so obvious to us that the biology program just doesn't want us to go deep with another person, especially not for the long term.

We tried for almost two years to make love still and slow, very little movement, no stimulation. It turned out that it did nothing for her. It just frustrated us even more because there was no real pleasure, no motivation to get undressed and try again. Now we feel that the important thing is to be able to control the itch for orgasm as you encourage as much sensual pleasure as possible. In fact, everytime I read another "expert" who has written a book on spiritual sexuality, they inevitably end up saying the same thing... "stay slow and mindful, go toward the edge, if you like, but then settle the energy back down again and again." By going about it in this way, a couple can discover their own level of pleasure and enjoyment, while expanding more into each other. The longer you can go, the more sensitivity and enjoyment you both begin to experience.

I feel that in the world today, although there is a lot of sex being promoted, there really isn't a lot of enjoyment. No matter if a couple has trouble getting aroused or getting too aroused, the approach is basically the same. Figure out how to navigate with each other and encourage as much pleasure as possible, without going over into orgasm. The results lead to a feeling of satisfication and soothing the deep longing and hunger we have in the world for divine connection.