How to improve karezza sex, if it feels worse than regular sex?

Submitted by Yuuichi on
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My girlfriend and I are quite close romantically and sexually, and we have sex (the regular kind) usually two or three times a week (we are busy with commitments a lot of the time). We're both in our early 20's.

I can make my girlfriend orgasm a lot during sex. Maybe three or four times. I improved my sexual stamina by reading a lot of sex manuals on how to improve that aspect of my life, but it didn't feel right. Everytime i orgasmed myself (with or after the main ejaculation), i felt exhausted for the rest of the week. I can't work or study so well and i've been looking for a way out of my fatigue from multiple-orgasms for a while- which led me here a few months ago. But my experience after sex is in total contrast with my girl.

After i've given her incredibly powerful and frequent orgasms (afterwhich i have to change the soaked bedsheets), she spends the next couple of days floating around with an angelic smile and telling me in sweet little kitten purrs how much she loves me. Only to want more the next time we meet (which i happily gave her).

We tried karezza sex for about an hour and a half last week because i wanted to sustain our love and passion for each other (after two nights of cuddling naked and kissing with no sex). i remembered everything the author of this website wrote in their guide on how to do karezza sex.
Once we finished however, she went like her regular (or slightly more irritable) self and complained that it didn't satisfy her and that she didn't 'understand it'. She doesn't quite understand the whole concept of orgasms being harmful, or that they might harm our relationship. As far as she's concerned, the more pleasureable and orgasmic the sex, the better. If we substitute it for something less pleasureable, then there's no point in her eyes.

We're both willing to give it one more shot to see how it goes, but neither of us want to decrease our sexual satisfaction. I can tolerate my fatigue if it makes her sexually satisfied. I was just hoping there would be a way i could have it both ways.

Could you suggest anything i can do to improve my textbook style of karezza sex? I read a lot about full-body orgasms or valley orgasms, but i'm not so clear on what they are. If someone can tell me what they are and how i can learn these different type of orgasms (or provide some links that will teach me), i'll be very happy. She'll be visiting her parents this week. I want to learn how to do those orgasms on her, so by next week, i can amaze her with multiple 'full-body' orgasms. That would probably be just enough to convert her to karezza i'm sure Wink

i look forward to hearing from everyone

my take on this

welcome here and so glad you are sharing your experiences.

I never realized what ejaculation does to me in terms of diminishing my workouts, my drive, my motivation, my thinking, and my feelings for my partner. Congratulations on seeing that connection far sooner than I did.

But I don't believe that Karezza can be pursued this way as a goal oriented thing. That is, by going after it directly as something you just master out of a book or through some technique.

It takes time for the brain to adjust to this. And it takes time as a couple to find your path. Months often.

And what makes it really difficult is that when you pursue pleasure like "valley orgasm" I think it makes it more elusive.

Plus, why does your girlfriend have to pursue Karezza? I find it works very well as a man just to do my thing and not try to influence my partner. She can see by example what I am doing and decide to pursue it if she wants to.

If you are going to try this, try to avoid orgasms for 3 weeks or so. Let her have all the orgasms she wants. 

What you will find is your sensitivity will increase. And if you continue with this, your pleasure will grow to the point where you don't want to ejaculate anymore.

Read this thread:

http://www.reuniting.info/blogs/emerson/some-fresh-insights-and-update

I can have more pleasure this way than I ever could with orgasms. It goes on and on for as long as I want. But it wasn't this way to start with. I think we all have become desensitized and we have to regain that sensitivity.

Also read this for a different but fascinating experience:
 

http://www.reuniting.info/node/4125

 

Interesting - thank you for your reply

So what you're saying is that i can give her all the orgasms she desires, while i take part in karezza sex? That sounds great. But to give her orgasms, i have to give her rhythmic thrusts in her vagina as deep as possible. This makes me ejaculate eventually, no matter how much i try to hold it in. But gives her plenty of pleasure.

Karezza on the other hand involves much slower and shallower penetration of the vagina - something that she wasn't too fond of, but resulted in more of a lengthly 'kissing and caressing each other' session instead of sex. It was hard to control how deep to go too, meaning it was quite uncomfortable for me also.

So, i don't understand how i can do karezza, while she pleasures herself the regular way. They are total opposites! If this process will take months, then she'll probably become too sexually frustrated with me and move on to the next guy (and i won't blame her. I have no intention on becoming almost impotent for the next few months!). However, if there's any way to make the learning curve faster (for her), so that she'll be experiencing the same huge amount of pleasure as before from both of us doing karezza, i'll be glad to hear it. I've learnt most of the techniques, and i know how to do karezza. I just don't know how to make my girlfriend receptive to it.

I've been avoiding orgasm since our last time we had sex (5 days ago).

Why can't penetration during

Why can't penetration during karezza be just as deep as during any other sex?

Is she certain her irritability after your attempt at karezza wasn't a sign of withdrawal from the stimulation she is used to? Perhaps if you ask her that she will be willing to try karezza for a few weeks to learn more about herself.

Yuuichi wrote:

[quote=Yuuichi]So what you're saying is that i can give her all the orgasms she desires, while i take part in karezza sex? That sounds great. But to give her orgasms, i have to give her rhythmic thrusts in her vagina as deep as possible. This makes me ejaculate eventually, no matter how much i try to hold it in. But gives her plenty of pleasure. Karezza on the other hand involves much slower and shallower penetration of the vagina - something that she wasn't too fond of, but resulted in more of a lengthly 'kissing and caressing each other' session instead of sex. It was hard to control how deep to go too, meaning it was quite uncomfortable for me also. So, i don't understand how i can do karezza, while she pleasures herself the regular way. They are total opposites! If this process will take months, then she'll probably become too sexually frustrated with me and move on to the next guy (and i won't blame her. I have no intention on becoming almost impotent for the next few months!). However, if there's any way to make the learning curve faster (for her), so that she'll be experiencing the same huge amount of pleasure as before from both of us doing karezza, i'll be glad to hear it. I've learnt most of the techniques, and i know how to do karezza. I just don't know how to make my girlfriend receptive to it. I've been avoiding orgasm since our last time we had sex (5 days ago).[/quote]

 

you don't have to ejaculate if you don't want to. It takes a little practice but it's not difficult to learn how to not ejaculate. She can have her orgasms and you don't have to have yours.

Did you read those links I posted?

You can't worry about her and her pleasure when it's you that you have control over, not her. Just have sex with her and don't come. It's really that simple to start with. Just get good at that :)

 

depth

I was also puzzled by your remark about shallower penetration. Perhaps there is some confusion about what you (or someone else that you read) mean by "shallow penetration."

In my karezza practice, I go in as far as I can go. If I want to rest, I stay all the way in. If I want to move, I pull out about 1 or 2 inches (2.54 or 5.08 cm if you are used to metric units Smile ) and then go back in, and so on.

I've seen posts from one or two other guys that make me think they go all the way in too when doing karezza.

With karezza, I may move at a rate of one stroke every .7 to 3 seconds, and move for just a few seconds at a time, or sometimes move continuously for a minute or so, then rest for a few seconds to a few minutes. If I move continuously for too long, I'm apt to have an orgasm. If I rest for too long I lose my erection and may fall out. So I move and rest in order to maintain a moderate level of arousal. On a 0-10 scale of arousal, where 10 is orgasm, I try to stay in the 4 to 7 range.

With conventional sex, I would also alternate between moving and resting. However I would move faster and pull out farther, especially at the end when going for orgasm. I would try to stay at the 7-8 level of arousal for most of the session.

A nice techinical description for men,

and close to my experience. I am not sure what the others are doing, but I was worrying if I'm doing the right thing. So that was fine to describe it in such exact terms. Seem men need that.

My wife is't getting orgasm from normal sex except in some very few aroused moments. So she always needed my manual stimulation. After we/I started with karezza, we had a long session of soft sex, and then I aroused her with my finger in the way of Orgasmic Medidation - very slow and soft. With having karezza before, she gets now very long and intense orgasms - and she asks for it. She seems not to be affected from orgasms - except she needs no sex for a while. (As well I see only very subtle changes after orgasms which could also be connected to other influences. And after I got a new approach to sex I feel not tired any more after having an orgasm. But when having no orgasms I felt generally very strong - like a giant).

But when we had slow sex as decribed by Diana Richardson - even having soft penetration - she says she is not exited at all and feel not much anyway. sort of boring, she said. So the advantage of karezza for my wife seem to be getting very enjoyable finger orgasms after we had Medium Sex, with thrusting and resting and fooling around and laughing and so forth. As emmerson said, I need no orgasm and I can control it. The one exception is when I try to give her orgasms through thrusting/pounding/rocking. Then I may come close to it or have it.

Sadly,

there's no way to push an unwilling partner of either gender. I wrote my book as a way to help motivate women by sharing my story. If she's not interested, then she's not.

Emerson's suggestion sounds like the best you can do for now.

He's right that this is a big adjustment for the brain and so expecting short-term results is futile. She sounds like she's hooked on orgasm for now. As long as she sees no drawbacks, she'll likely stay hooked. And maybe that's what will work for her.

Hi, thank you for commenting :)

Before i begin, i just want to say that english isn't my first language so there may be a few grammar mistakes.

She's not unwilling, just very skeptical. Because she hasn't seen any negative effects of orgasm. But she said she was open to a new style. She said that she will continue doing this a few more times until i get it right. But she certainly won't be persuaded to try it for any more than a month.

However, if she's hooked on orgasm, doesn't that mean she'll eventually experience all those negative effects you described in your blog? I guess we're still in our 'honeymoon period' of our relationship, so orgasms won't stop us being crazy about each other (for now) :)

Even if i become very good at karezza, will i still have to spend a few days or weeks 'warming up' girls to karezza if i have later relationships? Even if they're virgin? It sounds so troublesome...

By the way, your blog posts are very helpful. Thank you very much for providing and writing them for people like myself

First,

maybe she'll be one of the lucky ones who isn't affected adversely by orgasm. I'm sure there are some. It's too soon to say, given that your relationship is new. If (later) you notice emotional distance that you think might be related to too much orgasm, you can have her read this article: Women: Does Orgasm Give You a Hangover?

Meanwhile, enjoy being such a great lover. Just make sure that she respects your need to slow down to avoid climax. Your wellbeing matters too.

Also, know that sexual exhaustion, though it feels good in the moment, can leave people needing more and more. So it's possible that you will not be "meeting her needs" by engaging in such vigorous sex and producing multiple orgasms, but rather inflaming her needs for the following time. Just watch to see if she wants more and more.

I'd say, if she's willing to try it for a month, go for it! Worst case, you're back where you started!

Finally, has she been using a sex toy? I would think vibrator users would need more stimulation than women who don't. I've just been working on a post about women on r/NoFap, and here are some of the changes they noticed when they stopped climaxing so frequently:

Julie: The benefits of nofap aren't just for men. I never thought sex could get any better than it already was, but I was wrong. When both partners are saving all their desire for the other, things can be amazing.

Cara: I definitely notice an increase in sensitivity after a period of not fapping or sexing. It makes me feel even better that there are other women participating. Love makes the sex so much better. It's a completely different experience relieving your basal needs with someone (or yourself) and making the type of love that melts the world away and feels like a transcendental experience.

Sheena: Last night we had sex, and neither of us had [masturbated] in the last week and it was amazing. I came loudly and hard, probably one of the best (not for the neighbors). Anyways I am encouraged to continue! I hope he does too!

Beth: I am doing this to regain sensitivity. It works. When I made it to two weeks I relapsed and came in mere seconds. I quit so that when my SO and I have sex it is more enjoyable. He definitely notices my enthusiasm after a time of not fapping.

Samantha: When I save my getting excited for activities with my boyfriend, it's also a whole lot better and even more romantic feeling.

Kimberly: (Day 33) I'm noticing more pleasure during intercourse since I'm getting longer breaks between moments of pleasure.

Hi again

Sorry for my late response. I've been away from the computer for a while.

My girlfriend is Chinese and raised in a conservative background. She doesn't masturbate or use any sex toys (or so she tells me!).

I've been reading a book by Diana Richardson. It's called Tantric sex for men. I think it's good. I'm looking forward to trying it and karezza as well. Thank you Emerson for your links. I'm glad to know my girlfriend can still have her orgasms. I just need to stop ejaculating and not get so excited.

This is what i do while having sex with my girlfriend. My previous method usually resulted in her getting lots of orgasms, though i've changed it slightly so i will be less likely to ejaculate. I've written my new method below. What do you think? I know this isn't Karezza strictly, but i'm trying to work myself from Tantric sex to Karezza.
I will start foreplay by kissing her in various places and slowly undressing her. This occurs while i touch her in highly-sensitive places, including in between her thighs, her hips and behind, around her breasts in a circle motion, her neck and anywhere where there are much smaller hairs on her body (this is a good indicator of sensitive areas of skin. Touching these hairs without skin contact is also very pleasurable for a woman). If she doesn't mind it, i will taste her neck with kisses and tongue too, and breathe on the area of her neck i kissed, evaporating the saliva and sending (erotic) chills down her back.
Before long, i will start kissing the area around her vagina and clitoris (like her inner thighs and hips), but not actually go there immediately. This teasing of that area will heighten the arousal by the time i do reach that area.
When i do reach the vagina and clitoris, i will use my tongue to give her oral sex. I heard it's a good idea to spell out the alphabet really quickly with the tongue on her clitoris, and french kiss it too. I will continue doing this, giving her quick and varied tongue strokes on her clitoris, until she is on the edge of orgasm.
Before she does orgasm however, i will penetrate her quite shallow in her vagina. I will use the 'coital alignment technique' i learned in the link above to stimulate her clitoris rather than her vagina, and keep grinding and putting pressure on her clitoris until she orgasms.
When she orgasms, i will use the short time she needs to recover to give her more affectionate touching, caressing and kissing all around her body, while i insert my finger(s) into her vagina to start stimulating her G-spot. I will use quick motions without too much variation of stroke to bring her to the edge of orgasm again (teasing her) before i penetrate.
When she's almost on the edge of orgasm via stimulation of the G-spot, i will then penetrate midway into her vagina using the friction of my penis to further massage her G-spot, using quicker thrusts. I will continue the rhythm, depth and intensity of the thrusts by using my forearms and elbows to support myself until she orgasms again.
After the orgasms from the G-spot, i will use this time to further the intimacy with slow and passionate mouth-to-mouth/neck kisses and massaging her forearms and inner thighs. I will then lick all her female fluids from her vagina and continue to her final and most intense orgasms.
After i have cleaned her fluids from her vagina and engage in more bonding intimacy, i will use my fingers to reach the farthest they can reach in the vagina to the cervix. Once i found the cervix, i can easily locate the muscle tissue that is just in front and above her cervix. This muscle tissue is responsible for contracting when a woman experiences orgasms, so stimulating and massaging them will leave the woman no choice but to orgasm relentlessly. So once she is ready, i'll start rubbing and stroking this part of the vagina in rapid and varying strokes until she is dripping wet again.
After the stimulating of the back of the vagina until wet, i'll raise her legs on top of my shoulders, and lean over her so her own knees are caressing her breasts and i'm still close enough to kiss her while penetrating her. As she gets close to orgasm, i'll grip her behind her shoulders to pull her downwards during the deep thrusts to hit the back wall of her vagina more. This technique will allow me to go much deeper into her vagina and reach the wall of muscle tissue that i previously stimulated, and thrust deeply into her repeatedly until she cannot possibly orgasm any more.
Then, i will pull out with her totally satisfied/or repeat (with myself hopefully not having already ejaculated). I'll spend the rest of the time licking all of her fluids out of her vagina, kissing her intimate places again and stroking her hair until she falls asleep in my arms.

I think the frequent changing of positions means i won't have the feeling to ejaculate either. Do you think i should change my method a bit more? I know everyone here is more experienced than me, so i welcome your contribution. I don't strictly follow this method. I often change things in between if i feel like it. This is just a guide for myself.

Thank you!. I apologise for my bad english

Giving and receiving

What I wonder from your description, and most other detailed descriptions I've come across of lovemaking, is how much of what a person does is done primarily because they enjoy it, or primarily because of the effect they hope it will have on their partner.

I used to believe the most important thing was to behave selflessly and do whatever gave my partner pleasure. The 'giving' of pleasure became the greater part of my pleasure. Even when doing something as simple as kissing, I would catch myself adapting my approach for ultimate effect, rather than letting my lips 'speak for themselves'.

My wife is the opposite. She has always said she only ever does what gives her immediate pleasure; if it pleases me too, that is a bonus. This used to piss me off, as I felt she should be more accommodating; but I've come to see she may have been right.

Old habits die hard. In recalibrating my approach to lovemaking, it's shocking to realise how much of an investment I've made in arousing and exciting my wife in order to attain a satisfaction that is more dependant on her response than my own.

That 'response' was traditionally orgasm. As soon as this goal is taken out of the equation, any approach that puts its emphasis on a partner's reaction will tend to become stalled, as there's nowhere for it to 'go'. I'm not sure the solution lies in self absorption, though. After all, lovemaking is a shared activity, which works best when our attention is spread out to include our partner rather than narrowly confined to either their or our pleasure.

I suspect what is most rewarding is when we do what pleases us, but at the same time, attune ourselves to - without trying to influence - it's effect on our partners, so that we will be doing what we sense pleases them, too. They, meanwhile - ideally - will be doing the same, in reverse. That way, lovemaking becomes a form of reciprocal response, not dissimilar to a dance. It requires both patience and sensitivity, because as soon as one person decides to do something in order to produce an effect in the other, rather than respond in kind to their overtures, the reciprocal dance is over.

Please don't get me wrong - your description sounds like a lot of fun, for both of you; but it does convey the impression of you doing what you do primarily for your girlfriend's benefit. This isn't meant as a criticism. I have yet to read a sex manual - apart from those by the Richardsons - that doesn't put pleasing your partner above pleasing the self. Selflessness seems such an obviously good idea, especially as its opposite can manifest itself in so many unpleasant ways.

This subject fascinates me

My take on Diana's suggestion is that both partners are best served by each "tuning into their own subtle responses within," not, strictly speaking, "trying to please themselves individually." In other words, there's no striving for a goal of pleasure...for either...but rather attuning the the pleasure spontaneously produced during the connection.

I feel I could have done a better job of describing this in my book, so I'm grateful for Diana's work.

Tuning in

You're probably right. I was assuming rather more than I know. I haven't properly studied Diana Richardson's books, as I find them a bit difficult to digest. I just remember being astonished when she suggested focusing within rather than without, while virtually every other source says the opposite.

I was speaking more from my own experience, which, although light years away from the subtlety you talk of, and very much 'pleasure led', is opening my eyes to how important a soft, uninsistent, less goal oriented focus is.

Whatever the goal, as there still has to be one (even when 'connecting') the key seems to be how much, and what sort, of an emphasis is on it, as opposed to the means of achieving it.