My brain does not listen to me ^^

Submitted by Deadsun on
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Hello,
I already posted something on the forum, I explained that orgasms affect badely my weel-being and my health, that when I stop during 2 or 3 months everything is better, so better.
But, unfortunately, I started again to have conventional sex with my partner...with orgasm as a goal.
10 days ago, I decided to stop. Today, I feel the energy fluid in my all body. But there is an issue: I feel like orgasm will come so easily, just thinking about sex. I think I wiil no resist to soft stimulations, even staying calm and having deep breathe. Do you think I just have to accept climax when it comes ?

It Will Take Time for Your Body to Change

If you continue with your Karezza, your body will respond to your newfound direction in time. And, the changes, at least for me, were not linear, always: sometimes, there was a nice step-up, out of nowhere, in my ability to resist inadvertent ejaculation.

I vaguely remember that I was very, very pleased with my ability to resist inadvertent ejaculation at three months or so. That ability has continued to improve, now that I have practicing Karezza for 2 1/2 years or so.

I would recommend staying with it; it is well worth it personally -- physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually -- and in terms of strengthening your bond with your partner.

Best wishes!

I feel sad losing it

Thank you for your answer John. I understand what you mean because I used to live my past life with orgasm only every 2/3 months. I was happy with that, because sex with my ex boyfriend was not so important to me.

The reason I had orgasms again is that I find it wonderful to share this final pleasure with my present partner.

What I think? That I have to choose: reaching heaven with him during 10 seconds but feeling sad, weak, needy, unfulfilled, and maybe losing him. Or being healthy, happy and loved everytime, but losing this divine moment.

Or maybe a compromise ?

In fact I'm desperate

I'm so desperate with this choice...
Life without it, it's like going to DisneyLand and don't go on my favorite attraction, it's like going to a festival and do not see when my favorite band is singing, it's like begining a meal, and watching everybody eating this delicious apple pie for dessert.
(and sorry for my english, I'm french)

Don't be upset

You're a good mammal, allowing your body to do exactly what it evolved to do, which is engage in sex for the pleasure without thinking about the consequences. Yes 3

Of course, it's not easy to make another choice. Mother Nature is a dominatrix.

The silver lining is that once you slow down and take pleasure in the rest of the experience, the rest of the experience gradually gets more pleasurable.

Alas, there's only one way to experience this for yourself. And if you're like me, you will have to crash a number of relationships before you're willing to try an alternative to Mother Nature's plan.

I know

Yes you're absolutely right, it's a matter of strength : obedience to Mother Nature and being spectator of your sad little life, or becoming actor of your own life, choosing what you want to be.
Am I that strong? I don't know!

Wonderful, to have a French

Wonderful, to have a French speaker here.

I am older (mid 50s) and value my 25 year marriage. So, I was willing to give up orgasm in the hope of strengthening my marriage. Karezza has met that need of mine.

And, the benefit of daily or near daily intercourse, with its protracted wondrous feelings -- at least for me -- beats the pleasure from the more intense, but much shorter 'peak orgasm.'

You may reach that same conclusion -- that foregoing orgasm is warranted in the hope of strengthening the bond with your partner -- now, or later, or maybe never.

But, that is okay. We all evolve at varying paces, in our whole range of behaviors. But, we all ultimately -- in this life or the next -- arrive at the same destination.

Best wishes as you sort through weighing how to proceed!

Thank you for your experience

I'm glad to see that karezza brought you happiness with your wife. It's encouraging.
I don't know if my plan will work. Because I will do it "alone".
Yesterday the pleasure with my partner was so strong that he thought I climax just before him. He don't know that I try again no-o.
I have the impression that when I practice karezza, the risk is that it become unbalanced between us. But maybe not!

My guess is that

you may be right that without his cooperation, you will find it difficult to stabilize. Is there any chance that he would try karezza with you for 3 weeks - with no orgasms on the side?

If not, try to relax and just observe. Don't make yourself wrong. It's difficult to choose karezza over someone you love, but if you stay with it, he may gradually get on board. Eventually, you'll need to tell him what you're doing and why. Right now, it sounds like he may measure his success as a lover by the number of your orgasms, rather than by your overall wellbeing. (Sneaky Mother Nature at work again. Wink )

Would he find this page interesting? Men: Does Frequent Ejaculation Cause A Hangover? | Reuniting

There is no chance my partner tries karezza

No, I don't think he would try karezza with me. Yet, I have the impression orgasms (and sex) are not so addictive and harmful for him than for me. And he's not fustrated at all when we don't reach this peak pleasure.

If I tell him (again) about karezza, he will say "That's ok, if that's better for you" (like he did 2 years ago), but he would not try to really understand because that is of no interest for him. For him, we just have to be reasonable.

I understand

Often the men on this forum have the same issue with their female partners. The consensus is that you can't force someone.

On the other hand, it is not unreasonable to request a 3 week mutual experiment, so if the occasion presents itself, you might try requesting that. Many people who think orgasm isn't affecting them discover it was...but only when they try a sustained period away from it.

Meanwhile, just chart your own course and enjoy the intimacy.

15 days and I feel already better

As we choose to respect each other's choices in our relationship, I will not ask him to join me in this experience, even for some weeks.
And I must admit I prefer he does't do it with me, I like him like that. But I think he will love me more if I practice karezza.

Day 15, the "path" is fading away. I feel this will become easier to avoid orgasm. And my look, my lips, my smile and my skin look already younger. And I really feel younger. That's crazy!

My orgasm's theory was (is) so ridiculus for so many of my friends and family. I'm glad to find you. I don't know if I would have tried to convince myself alone.
I'm 32, I feel like I lost so many years because orgasms totally ruin my life (and it's not an exaggeration). I don't want to waste my time anymore.

I'll give some news.

Thank you for everything.

Mél.

I'm glad you're feeling better

But whatever your friends and family may believe, this theory is not ridiculous. Just last fall, an Australian study (it's linked to from this page: Women: Does Orgasm Give You A Hangover? | Reuniting) came out showing that half of women subjects had experienced tears or irritability after climax.

That's pretty powerful evidence, given that most women would never ever connect orgasm (that delicious experience) with anything unpleasant. And what about those of us in whom the effects are delayed - making them even harder to recognize?

Dozens of studies now show evidence of lingering neurochemical events after orgasm, in both humans and animals: Research | Reuniting. We're naive to think that evolution shaped us such that orgasm is purely recreational. It evolved for biological reasons, and some of those reasons appear to impact our neurochemical balance temporarily.

Sadly, we're all so busy being "sex positive" (and judging our experience by the initial high, rather than the full cycle - which most of us know nothing about) that we're not really thinking about the normal neurochemical events that follow climax. Obviously some brains are going to be more sensitive to them than others - just as with any physiological process (such as PMS).

It's a shame that today's sexologists know so little about human physiology that they don't even understand some of the most critical information humans need to understand their sexuality/mating contentment. Most view their "job" as just getting us to orgasm more frequently.

Yet this "unjknown" information about the orgasm cycle is becoming more essential as our society becomes increasingly orgasm-focused - due to the universal use of sex aids like porn and sex toys.

Thanks for listening to my rant. Biggrin

I found this article on women

I found this article on women hangover after sex really interesting. For me, only orgasms give me an hangover, not intercourse without it, even if my mate comes.

I think I really have this neurochemical hangover, but not immediately after sex. On the contrary, I feel so good during 24h or even 48h. But then, everything is falling down, and this during 7 to 15 days!
And I have more that this simple neurochemichal hangover: month to month, years to years, everything is getting worse.
When I orgasm almost everyday during 3 months, the result is that I feel extremly weak, and I look like someone VERY ILL: no breast (38B), big legs, thin face.
When it's been three months I practice karezza, I look 10 years younger, my legs are thin, my breast is more 38D and I have a "rounder" face.

I made this hypothesis for women hangover (as I must be one of those who have the strongest symptoms): women have a seductive power really strong and they must avoid orgasms to keep this power.
My thought is also that orgasms affect more women than men, it makes them less feminine. Orgasms make everybody colder and a woman need to be "alive", voluptuous and maybe sweet to be attractive. (on the contrary, I personnaly find a cold and thin man very attractive).

That can seems funny, but I really think women who never had an orgasm are lucky because they are the most charismatic women.

The more I read on "Reuniting", the more I'm motivated to continue.

I saw a similar pattern

Felt really "high" for a short time and then suffered (mostly with irritability and wild projections...often on to my beloved Mamba ) until about 14-15 days. So it was very difficult to see. I don't remember swelling or changes in breast size, but I definitely had frequent urinary tract infection and yeast problems.

For those of us who are sensitive to these subtle neuro-endocrine changes, careful management is really beneficial.

I think your hypothesis

I think your hypothesis sounds entirely plausible, and makes great sense. I say that because, as a male, I feel the exact counterparts: continence makes me feel stronger, more charming, more powerful, more attractive, yet more kind, more compassionate, etc.

it takes a good sex months to

it takes a good six months to adjust to Karezza. And maybe a year or two to really get tuned in with your partner.

And it changes. I didn't come for at all for 7 months, then once or twice in the next six months. These days it's more like every few weeks, but that will change also. Life changes, partners change, we change, seasons change.

 

Yes everything changes

7 months is a good performance. I will try more than 3 months without orgasm this time.
My relationship is my last hope, I don't want it ends. And yes, everything changes and life is to short to ruin it.

"My brain doesn't listen to

"My brain doesn't listen to me"....Yeah, you, me and the rest of the world. If only my brain WOULD listen to me!!

Dead sun, it's all discipline, plain and simple. You say NO and you hold firm, even while your lizard brain screams, "go for the pleasure, go for the Big Bang", bla bla bla... I say it's one of the hardest things for a man to do, deny that sweet but fleeting pleasure of release. Problem is you just can't know the deeper pleasure your missing out on until you choke the screams of that lizard brain enough that it goes quiet, quiet enough, for this other, more pleasurable pleasure to begin to surface...and then you'll be hooked.

Wish you the best and hope you join the ranks of us men who have made it to the other side of "My brain doesn't listen to me". Believe me it's well, well worth it!

Hold firm is not so easy

Yes I know it's well worth it, but I never succeed more than 3 months, never. So I'm afraid to lose again.
I hope to join you in the other side. I already see the light, but it's still far away.

Oops! After reading the rest

Oops! After reading the rest of your posts I realized you are the goddess not the guy. I believe, (and this is totally just my opinion) that much different rules apply to the woman that man in the Karezza realm, and I was speaking to you from the male perspective.

I believe it's the man who holds the line, keeps the focus, makes sure things don't get too overheated. Man's the action. Woman responds, let's go and flows. What does Maria say? Man is the captain, woman is the boat? Something like that. Not to say that the woman doesn't have a part. She can make her man go over the edge, like that! Her intention is definitely part of the picture as well. I've always said the vagina is a magical, wonderful and dangerous place for a man. Enter her glorious temple with caution and reverence, that's my approach.

As a man I don't really have any sage advise for you except every three months is pretty darn good. I'm sure your intention will make it grow. Reluctant partners often come along in time with a little gentle nudging. Patience may be the best approach. Wish you the best in your sexual journey.

A strong boat to make a captain happy

Yes and my thought is that a captain can take some risks, can even make mistakes.
But a boat have to be resistant and the captain must be proud of his boat. In order to be and to stay that great, the boat need to be stronger, much stronger than the captain.
The boat is not action, and orgasms are actions.

I Almost failed :(

Day 40, it's been 12 days I did't see my mate and I'll see him again in one week.
It's funny but I almost had an orgasm driving my car...not thinking about sex at all but because of the electric feeling driving with hot sun on my skin gave me. I had to stop on a rest area to calm down. And it happens also when I do aerobic exercices...
I'm so afraid to ruin everything.

Try not to stress about it

Learning to manage your sexual energy differently is a bit like riding a surfboard or snowboard. Just go for balance and keep a sense of humor about spills.

I know you're anxious to experience the benefits, but more than your forced willpower is at work here.

Do you know how to circulate your sexual energy when it surges like that? A lot of these work for women too: Energy Circulation Practices. If you use one of those techniques you can befriend that energy rather than having to fight it.

I already knew some breathing

I already knew some breathing practices, but I do not use it regularly. Thank you for the link, I will try it, I think it can help.
And it's been 5 years I'm really interested in Kundalini. To reach the highest spiritual level was so important for me, but I think this change in me occurs only when I stop having orgasms. And that 's sad to say only one orgasm can break everything for a while and delay this evolution. Today, I try to be realistic so I'm sceptic when answering the question: "is it possible to avoid orgasms more than 3 months for me when I have a mate?"
What a dream to have an on/off control button...!

This happened, my

This happened, my relationship crashed. We didn't have the same vison of life, no only regarding sex. So now I feel confident about karezza and kundalini. And about everything.

It's possible, it just takes intention + time

My wife an I have been practicing Karezza for about 3 years. We have our own Karezza style; it's a blend of slow, soft gentle touches, hardcore full-on conventional sex (still slower, i.e. no pounding, but no less enthusiastic) and breaks in between. We have reached such a level where we can fully let go, enjoy sex without limits for hours and not blow it. When considering your situation, please keep in mind that not everyone does it the way we do - I'm just reporting on our experience, YMMV.

It's only in the past few months that we've really gotten to the point we've been aiming for. As you can imagine, that's a lot of times we fell short and got to experience the negative consequences. My wife got it much quicker than I did. She's been able to avoid orgasm almost all the time for probably the past year and a half. I guess I'm the slow learner :-).

For me, the key insight only happened recently when I noticed that I could take amazing amounts of stimulation without having (or even wanting) an orgasm. When one of us reaches a level where the idea might enter our head to want one, we just take a break. It occurred to me that the only times I have had an orgasm were preceded by me having an intention to have one. Afterwards, I could always trace back to a thought, a justification, or some indication that the idea was already in my mind. For example, I might notice myself thinking something like this: "hey, due to circumstances, we won't be able to be together for a week, so I could have an orgasm now and it woudn't be a big deal". When that thought gets stuck in my head, I'm sure to blow it! Conversely, when there is no intention to orgasm, I don't. I find this amazing.

So we have been doing this 3x per week for a while now, and each time we are amazed that we reach a place that seems higher, more connected, deeper, more exciting than that last. There appears to be no limit. I'm telling you this because, initially I thought we had to give up the kind of sex we love to have with each other in order to get the benefits of Karezza, but I have discovered that in fact we can get to the place we want to, it just takes time, intention and practice. And the rewards are tremendous. We are enjoying each other 100x what we used to, and it just keeps getting better. On top of that, we get along much much better and are happier (especially her - no longer moody and volatile - and it's not just me noticing, she reports this).

Congratulations to you and

Congratulations to you and your wife, sender! I am very happy for you!

Makes great sense, that what we have in our mind greatly influences what path our body subsequently takes.

What an endorsement: "...each time we are amazed that we reach a place that seems higher, more connected, deeper, more exciting than that last...We are enjoying each other 100x what we used to, and it just keeps getting better. On top of that, we get along much much better and are happier"

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I hope my wife and I can get there -- we are progressing nicely -- because it sure does sound great!

Thank you for your experience

Thank you for your experience. I think there is a great complicity between you and your wife. And I find it good you can practice hardcore conventionnal sex and to stop before the point of no return.
Regarding me, I have broken with my boyfriend yesterday, so I will take a new path in life, and in sex. I think it will be easier to succeed alone. I like karezza style, but I can't quit hot sex. And for me, avoiding orgasm practicing hot sex is much more a challenge. I love life when it's peaceful, but I love also when it's extreme. And I think the real spiritual strength is to be able to be "primitive" but controlling it, that it has become harmless.

Reminds me of that one Lonely

Reminds me of that one Lonely Island song.

Don't be afraid of this stuff, addiction to not orgasming is just another addiction. Funnily enough, when you stop caring so much about it not happening, it becomes easier. If you obsess over either having orgasms or not having them, you'll just agitate yourself.

Single

Yes, you're right, I was alone when I had my mate, I was lost. Today I'm single, after 1,5 years relationship, and I don't feel empty anymore: I feel I'm "me" again. I think I was not only torned between orgasm or no-o but between so many other things... Now everything is so clear and choices so easy to make. I know what I want because, like you said, I just stopped "being afraid" and "caring so much" about everything.

I lose...

After 2 months and a half I had 2 orgasms one day. I met a man.
Today I feel I have lost strenght and a part of me doesn't want to see him again.
I hate relationship (not only because of this) but I don't know why I'm so sensitive to orgasms... I will start again to avoid it, but unfortunately this will certainly happen again in two or three month, because we are on this earth looking for that to happen. :(

More than others

Thank you, I will look for this book, even if I think I don't want to be in relatioship anymore.
But I really have the impression that for me, orgasms are a lot worse than for other people (friends of mine told me that it's not that bad for them). For me, it's like if I was 80 years old, I think, thank you nature. I really think some people are born with a lot of strenght and other need to make efforts all their life in order to become strong and to stay strong. I think it's my last orgasms, really...I don't wanna feel like this anymore.

your friends don't know

they haven't gone weeks without an orgasm.

Until they do, they really can't comment.

Most men from adolescence on, never go more than a few days without ejaculating.

So they don't know what they're missing.

Yes they miss something

But in general, my friends who have regular orgasms feel well, are very happy and active people. Maybe they could be better without orgasm, yes, certainly.
But me, when I have regular orgasms, I just can't do nothing in my life, I'm ill, and very badly.

I've sometimes wondered if

intensity of orgasm plays a role too. It may be that some people have more intense orgasms, and that therefore they experience greater fallout.

Mind you, I have no idea if research would bear this out...or how anyone could even measure it. But I wonder about it because it's evident that streaming internet porn is causing problems in men who masturbated to earlier forms of porn without much in the way of symptoms. The shift to more intense orgasms, or edging for hours, or ??? clearly causes greater dysregulation of their reward circuitry and even screws up sexual function in some.

And I've already seen a couple of self-reports that suggest that VR (virtual reality) porn is likely even more intense and problematic. What about Virtual Reality (VR) Porn?

Thoughts?

I fell off the wagon a bit a

I fell off the wagon a bit a month or so ago and since I had those VR google thingies, I did try out some VR porn.

Let's just say I wouldn't worry. It's weird as hell. It's fascinating for sure and if you really want to, you can get into it.

Porn is about variety, though. And you can only do one thing with VR porn. And the girls aren't good enough actors to make even that one thing work.

It's like acting against a green screen pretending to talk to an alien. Only the actors aren't even very good at acting to begin with. It's just silly.

Plus VR makes you queasy. You won't have any hour long sessions.

It is the best technology showcase for VR though. Barely anything works as well as VR porn, so if you want to check out the technology I actually recommend that as funny as that sounds.

I'm not sticking that thing on my head anymore though. It's uncomfortable and mostly good for a laugh.

Intensity of orgasm

Hello,

And sorry to answer so late.
Yes I think intensity of orgasm plays a role in my symptoms. The days after these 2 orgasms where terrible...
But there is something else to tell, or to ask.
When I met this man, I was not planning to have a long term relationship with him. But I change my mind, and I have the impression that these orgasms made me more sensitive and more open to love. In other words, I think this contribute to the feeling growing in me for him.
It's not orgasms' apology, I immediatly started to avoid orgasm after this. But if he becomes my lover, I will never regret this moment of weakness.
What do you think about it ?

I think that if you are happy, all is well

A mating "frenzy" kicks off pair bonds in humans and prairie voles, and probably other mammals species as well. But is it the orgasm? Or the attachment cues that accompany it, or both? Orgasm-free attachment behaviors seem to be quite powerful too.

I'm glad to hear that the relationship is taking root. Kiss 3

Ya Know...

I was pretty happy with orgasmic sex as long as we shared every 3-4 days. When my Izzy had some babies the frequency dropped way off and I would go into withdrawal and make everybody very unhappy. Masturbation did not help and porn just increased my dissatisfaction (so many beautiful women wanting to have sex, why not you?). For me, it was too much dopamine and too little oxytocin.

now what's working for me

is every time I have sex, I think, "It will seem like a really good idea to come, but remember how you feel, it's not" and then I don't. 

It always seems like a really good idea at some point. And it never is.

Knowing it will seem like a really good idea, helps me not do it. When the thought pops into my head during sex, I go "ah, yes, of course, there is the thought, I expected that," and I don't.

Exactly!

and what I do at that point is really simple. I stop the rubbing on my penis. I withdraw and keep it to myself. We maintain contact in all other ways. Might work for a clit too, dunno I don't have one.
I try to find lots of ways to enjoy the company of my Izzy and that dick rubbing just seems to start all on it's own. It's easier for me to catch that (the rubbing) than to catch my thoughts. If I think, "It would be a really good idea to cum", on some level it's already too late. I've already stoked the dopamine fire and am likely to be hungover even if I don't cum.
Remember what Prince Hamlet said to Yorick's skull? "Aye, there's the rub!" Ahoy there! time to do something else!
Deadsun's title of this thread is "My brain doesn't listen to me". My first thought is, "Stop listening to your brain!". No disrespect Emmerson, catching thoughts is an important part of my meditation practice.
Dunno 'bout y'all but my brain lies to me ALL THE TIME! My body speaks the truth.
Love y'all