Questions for those on the Path

Submitted by LaughingHawk on
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Hi ,

I had a few questions for Marnia and she suggested to send it to the gang and see what wisdom I could gather here.

So here goes...

Keep in mind this was written as to Marnia.

1. There is a book called "Love Satisfies" that goes over a practice of getting close to full arousal and pulling out and relaxing thereby creating a dry orgasm. Full physical symptoms of orgasm without ejaculate. I wanted to get your opinion on this practice and see what your thoughts would be on it being in line or out with what you have found to be effective and beneficial in long term relationships.

2. In your previous post you mentioned that you "engage in a fair amount of movement", is that traditional thrusting movements and normal sex or like a lot of rotational movement ala Diana Richardson's work? Is your practice like the "storm and peace" that I have read as a practice? Kind of a build up to a comfortable arousal and then "coast" in the bliss together in stillness and repeat?

3. Is this a practice you see as being sustainable indefinitely? No peak orgasm, ever, for life? Finding that blissful middle ground and then stay there?

4. I believe I read that you recommend a few days between lovemaking (please correct me if wrong). Is that still seen as a best practice for you? Are active days and passive days something you employ?

5. I see this type of lovemaking being a possible tool in our collective evolution. I would love to get your take on this possibility...

6. Any other insights or wisdom you have gleaned since you wrote your book? Is the practice still alive and thriving for you? Is there any changes that you would recommend? I have gone a month and a half with TOTAL stillness and rotation with my wife. It is interesting but feels quite flat and emotionless. I want the best of both worlds, loving sex and the spiritual side. I want to be fun and wise... lol. Would love your thoughts there.

Rock On!

LaughingHawk

My Response

My wife and I have been at Karezza for two years and three months. I read all I can about Karezza and have tried techniques from Chia and others. My wife cooperates with Karezza -- she remains still and reasonably receptive -- but does not help move the process along by reading, assisting with energy flows, or proposing that we try this or that.

1. "...a practice of getting close to full arousal and pulling out and relaxing thereby creating a dry orgasm..." I have not been able to be that precise and turn things around in time. There is no thermostat or valve involved, which would be easy to manipulate. My 'temperature' during Karezza varies based on when I last ejaculated, whether my wife is more or less receptive, whether we had no, cool, or hot foreplay, whether I am present in the moment or have fantasy in my mind, whether we are pressed for time so I must move more in our limited window, whether my wife unexpectedly moves at an inopportune moment, etc. I used to press to try to get close to full arousal. With too many inadvertent ejaculations, I now try to stay way clear of the edge.
2. I just finished rereading Richardson's 'Tantric Orgasm for Women' (TOFW) last night. I will now reread her husband's companion book. I use both in and out and rotational movements. They are just much slower and more deliberate than when we used to practice 'conventional' intercourse. There is no 'storm', but there is good movement to move to a heightened state of arousal, followed by a period of calmness. I often conduct three circuits of slow breathing in which I visualize golden light arising through my wife's chakras, after which I do some in and out or rotation movement.
3. We have only pursued peak orgasm once, 11 months after initiating Karezza. I saw how bitchy and trigger-happy we both were, and have refused to pursue peak orgasm again. I am entirely okay if I never have a peak orgasm again. The valley orgasm is wonderfully satisfying, and avoiding the emptiness, anxiousness, and feeling drained after peak orgasm is most worthwhile for me.
4. We typically have intercourse daily, but often there is a day off here and there. Our intercourse only goes for 20-30 minutes. My wife is not fully onboard with Karezza, and watches the clock.
5. Yes, I think humanity is awakening, remembering, and throwing off its Cabal programming. Yes, I think Karezza is a return to our original, intended form of sex, and most definitely aids in reducing emotional swings and promoting love and harmony. I think Karezza most definitely aids and accelerates the Ascension process.
6. Karezza most definitely does not require total stillness: '...passion is the experiencing of the intensity of the moment with inner stillness -- not necessarily without movement!...' (Richardson, TOFW, p. 129).

I hope that I can convince my wife to read TOFW now (she grudgingly read CPA when we initiated Karezza). My wife believes in intuition, energy, etc. TOFW's thrust that a woman be present in the here and now, that she focus on what she feels in her heart, breasts, and vagina, and that she is intended to be and radiate love may have appeal to her and may finally bring her, mentally, into the Karezza camp.

I am very happy for you and your wife, L-H-. You are going down a path that I would wager will strengthen and deepen your marriage and spirituality and wonderfully improve your sex life. At least those are the things that I have experienced with Karezza.

John G.

John G.

Thank you for your detailed response. This is such a new adventure that it helps having some feedback from others. I wish you well and hope you find a blissful balance as well.

No path

1. I’m not familiar with that book. (It's part of KindleUnlimited so some may be able to read it free: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A5TG244). There’s little recipe/path other than don’t seek orgasm so if the book calls for one, it’s distinct from here. Dry orgasm sound a bit like putting pressure on the perineum to block ejaculation, similar to Stanley Bass (http://www.reuniting.info/node/11310)?

2. Movement will vary for each couple and won’t always be the same. There’s no limit to movement or a specific amount of suggested movement. People do seem to utilize ebb and flow, though I think that’s true outside of karezza as well provided folks are not going for the quickest road to orgasm. Sometimes we’re pretty still, sometimes more movement, sometimes it’s a mix.

3. In theory, yes. In practice, it’s probably rare. Most people will have an unintended orgasm at some point or another.

4. I think you’re talking about something Marnia has mentioned works for her. Each couple is different. Variation and spontaneity might be preferred to a regime. It also depends on the daily circumstances of life.

5. Possibly, though karezza is not new and we’ve not yet evolved to it being commonplace. Evolution or devolution might not matter provided it works for you.

6. The flat emotionless aspects you seem to speak of bother my partner more than me. We’ve not worked out a solution. Less consciously stimulating sex seems to raise issues of brain chemistry and mindset more than reality. Imagine the parallel of sweet, stimulating food compared that to bland, nutritious food. Better depends on perspective and what your brain is used to interpreting as stimulating. The monotonous boredom of health can be a challenge. Sex seems no different. What do you find lacking in terms of “loving sex and the spiritual side?”

poc

My priestess wife gets really zealous whenever she hears about women who don't know the deep pleasure of POC, that's penis on clit. She feels that the women who aren't really on board with karezza is because they're not getting the level of arousal they want or need. She tells me all the time, "why didn't anybody tell me this? Put the dang penis on the clit". There's another woman that promotes something similar. She calls it cliteracy, though she does believe in orgasm. My wife doesn't want orgasm, but feels the sensation of clitoral stimulation with an electrically charged penis is what she missed out on in the past. She feels it is imperative for her to be motivated and interested in sex. Just another point of view to share.

hot karezza

It's interesting how we each have our own way. What unites us is the shift from mating to bonding, and the avoidance of orgasmic goals. When we first started reading about and practicing Karezza, my wife and I tried following the "instructions" around little to no movement. We found that doesn't work for us. My wife especially pointed out pretty much right away that if that's what Karezza is, then she doesn't like it Smile

I would label what we do as "hot Karezza". To the untrained (hypothetical) observer, what we do might be almost indistinguishable from conventional sex, perhaps except in that we take our time and move slower than we used to. But we still engage in "foreplay" where she is giving me oral and I am stimulating her breasts and nipples. In fact, we move between PIV intercourse and the "foreplay" type activities, as well as break time. It all just kind of flows naturally. The one thing we don't do much of anymore though is me giving her oral. Although I love to do that, she finds it puts her over the edge, so we mostly avoid it.

Now, our sex involves a lot of connection that was missing before; eye gazing, touching, etc. We talk to each other, we laugh...it's fun! But it has taken us many months of practice to find a rhythm that gives us the experience we want without going over the edge. I know some folx prefer to avoid too much stimulation for fear of going over the edge, and that was (and still is) a concern for us too. I think our experiments thus far have given us two things: (1) a clear understanding that we don't like the post-orgasmic consequences and (2) increased skills in being able to fully let go and enjoy, but break often enough and at the right times so we don't "blow it".

We consider this knowledge we have, and the practice of it which enables us to enjoy each other in this way as one of the greatest gifts we have received in life. We feel incredibly grateful, but sad for those who don't know about it.

OMMM

Such a beautiful post. I totally agree. A woman and a man who keeps themselves healthy can enjoy this kind of divine sexual connection until their last breath - feeling pleasure and arousal and holding vigilance to avoid orgasm. That's what we want to do too, so we work daily on simple diet, meditation, yoga and practicing the virtues: spiritual humility, happiness for others, temperance, love, creative work, sacred sexuality and generosity.

poc details

The starting position is side to side. The woman places her leg over the man's hip to open her genitals. What she does is "tap out" when she is getting too tricky. Then just stop and let the energy settle. It takes this agreement between the couple. If the man gets tricky, he just stops. The difficult thing for The man is to always twiddle slowly. If he speeds up the woman cannot relax, then he tends to speed up more, which kicks in The animal program. If he stays very slow, her sexual waters just flood. The positions that work best for POC is side to side, man on top, and especially, woman on top, where there is deep penetration and then the man can reach around her leg and gently twiddle her clit with a light finger stroke. Very erotic. Nicole D should discover that one! We have written step by step instructions to give to friends, perhaps we should post that.

Twiddle?

Kevin, you say:

"The difficult thing for The man is to always twiddle slowly."

I don't doubt this; but I would love you to post your step by step instructions so I can understand what twiddling is, and how a penis does it - or is it a finger?

okay

I will have to post the instructions so it will make more sense. I will try to do this tomorrow on a separate post. Thanks.

tap out

Tapping out means the woman taps the man with her fingers twice, signaling him to stop. I usually wait about 20 or 30 seconds before starting again. This practice takes mindfulness and gentleness. It is better than meditation in that it generates high arousal, deep pleasure and profound feelings of loving kindness. It also satisfies the man because he is able to develop perfect control over spasm orgasm and experience the incredible, magnetic waters of the woman. After about an hour and a half of this sex yoga, we plug in scissors and remain perfectly still, allowing the energy to absorb and settle. Then we get up, feeling drunk and sit on the porch, listening to soft Celtic aires and sipping hot coffee that has been cold brewed for 24 hours. Ahhh, such sweet joy!

more POC and more...

Yes, just keeping the penis sliding around the entire clitoral area in every way possible - every position you can. Going slow and keeping a steady pace. Even when she starts getting into it, just stay at the same pace - never speed up. Increasing speed will only push you over the edge and she'll most likely lose her focus. It's beautiful love-making!

1) I tried that for a time.

1) I tried that for a time. The hangover might've been lessened somewhat (it was oddly difficult to quantify) but not to the point where it felt worth doing. I was left feeling that I'd rather have a full orgasm and suffer accordingly. It had me feeling incomplete, whereas withholding orgasm doesn't.

3) Mistakes happen, so I can't promise forever, but that's my plan. I did the "90 days"; I did 120 days; I even did 180 days. The first orgasm after each of those sobrieties, and I was back to square one. In fact my body seemed to want to make up for the lost orgasms, and I'd go full tilt in the other direction. This time I'm taking it one day at a time but planning on never cumming...definitely not purposely, and hopefully not at all.

soft stimulation

My experience is that it really does take a while to rewire the brain - to NOT want orgasmic release. The lizard brain is programmed to cum and go so it requires the conscious will power to say "No way - never going to go over the waterfall." What worked for me in this process is receiving penis massages. If you have a sweet woman willing to help with this - 3 or 4 times a week, you'll discover that it helps you focus on the sensations of a woman's touch without actually having to do anything. Just allowing the sensations to wash over you, and keeping aware NOT to push toward release or to slip into fantasy helps a man gain control over all his sensations.

After a time, he can practice POC and stimulate the woman's clit directly with the penis and maintain absolute control for a long, long time - long enough for her to become totally saturated with all the pleasure she wants. Then end the session with a relaxing plug in, where the energy flows back toward the man from the woman. It's all incredible.