In summary...?

Submitted by Tian2rayn on
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Do we have orgasmic sex to create intimacy bonds, and karezza sex to maintain/build on them?

I've read that all the different neurotransmitters/hormones involved in a woman's orgasm is imperative for a romantic/intimate bond between her and her partner. And Karezza maintains and enhances these intimate bonds without many drawbacks associated with orgasm.


No one knows

The articles you are reading are written by people who assume orgasm is vital for women...for lots of reasons. They may be right, or they may be based on wishful thinking.

We do know that bonding is strongly influenced by a neurochemical called "oxytocin." That is released during affectionate touch. It's also released at climax, but drops immediately afterward. I wrote two posts about this phenomenon and its possible repercussions:

Oxytocin, Fidelity and Sex

Will Orgasms Keep You in Love?

Frankly, I don't think our experts are even asking the right questions yet, let alone getting clear answers. It's human nature to think that orgasms (and ejaculation) are benefitting us. After all, sexual jollies pass on the most genes. Just remember that our genetic programs are based on our genes' self-interest (in effect), not on what is best or most healthful for us as couples or individuals.

My suggestion is that you make your own experiments and learn what you learn, instead of trying to suss it all out in advance based on "expert" opinions - mine included. Trust me, there's a lot that none of us know yet.

This team is starting to do some useful research...but notice how they assume that the "best" orgasms are somehow automatically good for us.

Given the way orgams blasts the reward circuitry of the brain, the "best" orgasms may also cause the most neurochemical ripples and mood swings over the following two weeks. (That's what some of us on this forum have noticed.) But no expert is yet asking the larger questions.Their prejudices are so strong that they haven't even thought to control for karezza-style sex.

"Don't take any wooden nickles." Think for yourself.

Thanks. May i just ask for your opinion please

I really liked those articles- But i read that the experiments only applied to masturbating men. I'm unsure whether the same applies with women.

Despite everything i read, i'm still confused. I'll be living with my parents until this august (because i'm 18) so i can't 'experiment' with sex at the moment. I know Karezza is best during a relationship where you want to keep things stable, but i'm unsure what is best at the beginning of a relationship- when you want to amaze her.

So, in your opinion, what is the best at the start of the relationship? Multi-orgasmic and more passionate sex or more calm and caring Karezza?

Thank you :)

I hope others will share their thoughts too

but having operated on the first option at your age...I can only say that I much prefer the results with the second.

The first way is a great way to exhaust your desire and attraction for each other and make one partner or the other restless. However, biology really likes it, because it tends to produce more offspring.

That said, it is nearly impossible to take anyone else's word for how to manage a strong biological drive more wisely, so you may need to learn this via your own experience. If so, be gentle with yourself. We all learned this the hard way too. Biggrin

Read my story

at and you'll probably be able to guess my answer. Smile

Karezza is a bit trickier than regular (orgasmic) sex because you have to learn to control yourself. You have to learn where that threshold of sexual excitement lies, beyond which you will slip into an orgasm. (But if you've been watching lots of porn and masturbating with lots of force and friction, you may be desensitized and may feel very little when you get inside a woman.)

At any rate, you could start off trying karezza for yourself (let the woman decide for herself whether she wants to have orgasms). Orgasms are going to happen occasionally regardless of your intentions, so it's not like you'll never experience an orgasm with a woman. I doubt a woman is going to lose interest and leave you just because you choose not to have orgasms for yourself.

When I have the occasional orgasm, a couple things seem to help minimize the hangover effects:

1. Just lie still and let the orgasm happen; don't try to intensify the sensations.

2. If I feel some irritation with my wife in the following days, blame it on the orgasm, not on my wife! Really, that seems to make a big difference.

Please stay in touch and tell us about your experiences!


thanks for your reply. I'm reading your story now, it's very interesting.

Just wondering, could you replace sex with bonding behaviours (i.e. naked cuddling and kissing) in more casual relationships (where the woman probably expects sex) and then later on add in karezza sex?

Or do you always have to ask the girl's 'permission' or thoughts on the idea of bonding behaviours before you do it? That doesn't sound very romantic to me at all- asking a woman to be intimate with her in a particular way.
I'd rather just play with bonding behaviours and later Karezza without asking and just let her be (pleasantly) surprised.


A lot of women, if they get in bed with you, would probably be expecting sex. And if you didn't deliver, they might wonder what is going on. For example, they might wonder if you find them unattractive? And they might not ask what's going on, but just feel hurt and rejected, and not want to see you again.

So I think it's better to open up and say what's on your mind, as much as you possibly can. I really feel that deeply. The women I have the fondest memories of are those with whom I felt safe talking. I think that feeling of safety is a great indicator of whether you are compatible with that person. If there are things I don't feel safe talking about with someone, it seems like those things always end up being problems in the relationship.

Don't think of it as "asking permission". Think of it as a discussion about what you both would enjoy doing together. I've only been in bed naked with two women in my entire life (and I'm now 60!), but in both cases, when I asked them if they would like to get in bed with me and cuddle or make out (and I had already made it clear that I didn't want sex yet), they both happily agreed.

I don't recommend "surprising" her with anything. WAIT until you've done a lot of cuddling and you feel really relaxed and comfortable with each other. Then, when you feel like you are both ready, it should be easy to ask "Would you like to have sex?"

If you want to try karezza, I'd recommend informing her of that before you get started, again so she doesn't wonder what's going on, is she not sexy enough, etc. No need for a long explanation, unless she asks. You could just say, "I'm not planning on coming. I just want to enjoy being inside you. You are welcome to do whatever you like." And of course afterwards let her know that you did enjoy it and would love to do it again sometime soon!