There is a problem with the dating scene and society

Submitted by Love Gnosis on
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With novels like 50 Shades Of Grey becoming highly popular among women today, it just shows how our default sexuality can be destructive and draw people apart.

There is also a serious problem with the dating scene - and people who would normally be able to find a woman only a few decades ago, are unable to do so now. Women have developed much more of an entitlement-complex, more of an ego and have become much more choosy since the rise of feminism. Men have also helped perpetuate this and exploit the tougher situation with the continuing rise of the PUA community (pick up artistry).

This video conversation offers some very interesting insights as to the frustrations of an increasing amount of men who are fed up of the attitudes of modern society and the dating scene - and becoming fed up with sexuality in general:-

I think people, ultimately, desire close companionship more than sex. Simply having somebody to hug or touch (even in a non-sexual way) can be immensely soothing particularly after a hard day's work. Such a bond need not subject itself to the demanding requirements of sexual preferences or the misguided infatuation of romantic love. These people need that, as they are often hardworking men (and also sometimes women) who are just left alone in an increasingly narcisstic world.


If this is so, what can you really do about it? Society is not going to start taking steps back against the feminist movement. True, some aspects of the dating scene and sexuality are far less than ideal, but your only true options are to wish things were different, or accept things how they are and do the best you can.

There are girls who will agree with your view of things. You and those struggling just have to find those women.

What is the value of

What is the value of sexuality? How to we determine the social value of gender, whether male or female – and how do those coins compare to one another?

How closely tied to the energy economy of our bodies production of gamete cells is our relative sexual value as social entities? How much of the encumbrance of adornment in the form of jewelry, make up and affectation of attire is socially economical in a trade off for status? Does the ideologues of gender recognize the selective power afforded to individuals for whom gamete cells are biologically expensive? Will a coinage of human sexual worth ever be formally recognized in our courts?

Listen here:-

I think that women

will start to sober up one of these days. We're just behind you guys. I saw this man's comments on Reddit and really liked them. Very insightful.

I wrote a sex column for a couple of years, and as a male in this now female dominated game, it's a strange place to be. I think that while women were finally taking charge of their sexuality and rejecting all the "good girls shouldn't do this" BS, men were succumbing to the problems of Internet porn and its shameful silence. So women want to show up to the "open discussion of sexuality" party - and be one of the boys (ie Sex in the City) while the boys are slowly, finally starting to acknowledge that this all porn, all the time culture we created is causing us problems.

I remember hearing a caller on the Savage Love podcast describe the porn-addiction we're all acquainted with, to which Dan said, "Hey, we're guys. We all look at porn. Don't beat yourself up."

The porn addiction issue is still underground right now. This is how women felt when the only place they could discuss vibrators and their sex lives was in underground radical feminist newspapers. We're just ahead of the curve on this issue.

TLDR: Good news is, we're part of a revolution. Bad news is, we've got a lot of educating to do.

Great quote

This is the beginning of a wave...while it may be "female dominated" in some aspects there are places and areas where women certainly don't dominate.

I'm someone who tends to agree with some of the critiques of modern society but at the same time I have to point out that "society" is defined by the capitalist system and not the other way around. It's interesting that there are more women in the workforce than men and that men are more likely to be fired than a woman (especially a woman with a child or children) because the capitalists know that a woman with kids *needs* the job and is more likely to break her back for the boss.

The problem in dating and relationships is a symptom of the overall crisis of capitalism - it has never been about the needs of working people, it has always been about the needs of capitalists to maximize profits over everything else.

The comments under this link on YouTube are pretty horrendous by the way...It's too easy to slip into misogyny and blaming women for the problem without realizing there is a ruling class making decisions that affect everyone, from globalization of capitalism to environmental degradation and climate change.

Ok so I listened to this

And before I was halfway through Steve was pretty much saying "I don't want to wallow in self pity but..." I really think he is! He is blaming women for all his problems in dating.

I want to know what it is he is expecting to have happen. Are beautiful young women supposed to line up at his front door because he runs marathons and has an ok job? What is he doing that is different from other people? How come he can say there are problems with society but then easily that becomes "there are problems with women?"

Don't get me wrong there were a few moments where I totally identify with what he and his guest were saying. The frequent rejections and the almost arrogant way in which people can do it...really does suck so I'm not saying his experience is invalid and not shared by a lot of people. I don't buy that there are "20%" of men who are having a great time having sex with all the "hot chicks." There is successful and unsuccessful based on who they are and what they have done to make themselves into mature and attractive men based on their actions.

The main thing I think he is absolutely right about are the pick up artists who I agree are total opportunists capitalizing off of some people who are experiencing deep frustration and feel that they are worthless. Ultimately I think this video comes from more of a place of anger and frustration than anything else and it does not qualify as an objective critique of modern society and how the things we experience as men came into being. There are such analyses out there but we have to dig deeper to find them.

Here's one that does attempt to account for economic conditions and their impact on dating and society:

I think not.

It's not "always" anyone's fault. I think Steve thinks it's "always" women's fault. If you listen to the thing I posted there are factors that aren't anyone's fault - at least in the 99%! We don't control the global economy and feminists can't be blamed for wanting equality. We all want that don't we? It's true that women have more power because they came from a place of having very little. Again, speaking primarily of working class women. There have always been rich women with power, even if it was comparatively little with regard to ruling class men.

I'm glad you brought this way of thinking to my attention because the phenomena they are upset about is *real* no doubt about it...the "rules" have changed. Why should it be so offensive that we learn to change *with* them? It's a difficult process, no doubt, but worth it. I'm not talking about giving up all masculinity and becoming a "soft" man with no backbone who doesn't have interests beyond making his woman happy. I'm talking about being a person who knows who he is, what he is about and where he is going. There are a lot of men who don't know these key things about themselves and who are still on the same old treadmill of loyalty to some boss or some worthless ideology that tells them "why should *I* have to change?"

We have all suffered in the chaos of the capitalist market, men as much as anyone else. In my mind, *everything* has to change. Inside and out.

I would add biology

at the top of the "fault" list. It has always been a major factor in the alienation of male and female (after the initial fireworks). If we don't learn to manage it, it pushes us apart. The speed of the alienation has been picking up in recent decades because we have all "had the hammer down" on orgasm. That has muddied our perception of each other more than ever.

The time is ripe to learn how much control we have over our inner balance and relationship harmony via careful management of sexual desire.

Why don't you try this before you blame other factors, LG? I think you will be amazed.

There is a difference between

There is a difference between ranting and simply being dissapointed. With that being said, what lovegnosis is doing is ranting. Pure and Simple.

Dano, I don't agree with your post though. Particurarily where you say that feminists want equality. I don't agree with this part, I find that they are very egalitarian.

If the feminist movement would be about equality, then they would attack false rape accusation just as much as real rapes and then they wouldn't feel a need to overreport rape statistics. Did you know that the 1 in 4 rape statistic basically measured women who felt regret after a drunken hookup? And we're talking about a university environment here. But don't worry that information was enough to scream rape and threat every man as a potential rapist. Recently a study came out that showed that these "rapes" were commited by a minority of men. The staggering part of all of this is, that they had to be convinced of this.

At slutwalks you'll usually see couple of women with signs "teach men not to rape". I'm sorry? I wasn't aware of that biological programming.

If they would want equality, then we would now have a boy's center at the white house. We don't have that, we only have one for women.Yet more and more boys are dropping out of colleges and do you know what the number one reason is? They said "we didn't felt like nobody wanted us there". But don't worry this information is more then enough for Hannah Roisin to use in her book "why men are finished" or it's enough of a reason for Presient Obama to call it a victory for women.

Despite all of this, women have been the majority in colleges since 1978.

There is more to this though. I can even expand on the wage gap:

I recommend you read up on some Warren Farrell, particurarily the myth of male power.

You guys have far more

power than you realize. Men here prove this every day. Over and over again, we hear the same story as men learn to manage their sexual energy better. Women respond to them better and the tension between the genders eases...with no further ado.

Forget the politics and strengthen yourselves from within. You'll be amazed. Then teach other men your secret. I predict women will be a lot happier too.

The politics on this are

The politics on this are endless. But yes, simply empowering ourselves in genuine way, the way a woman would empower herself and live by her feminine nature is what will provide real solutions.

I would hope that this discrepancy in male/female power initiates self discovery for both sexes.

Women love strong men

It relaxes us, and then we're happier to be led. We get bossy when we sense you're "under the weather." It means we're feeling unsafe and stressed.

A calm, centered man who isn't feeling depleted makes me feel a huge "ahhhhh" subconsciously. That's what you guys can do to regain your power!

I'm gonna be honest with you

I'm gonna be honest with you Marnia, but I love reading your post!

I really do!

It's fun to learn a couple of things about female sexuality. I have to admit I feel the most masculine when I'm with a feminine women.

I was just commenting on politics, to make a statement though.

Ironically what lovegnosis was telling isn't that weird. I read in a history book that a lot of men weren't succesfull in passing on their genes at all. For women this rate was way lower.

It's a weird world we're

It's a weird world we're living in actually. Coming to realize it if you say that you don't use porn you're definetly an outlier and not something that's considered the norm. And women have this as well, sex toys, erotic stories....

But I think it's deeper then that. First I find that we're enjoying a lot of superficial contact, wild hookups. Facebook is also nothing more then a "fantasy world" if you ask me. I feel like we have to project these "ieal" visions on to other peopl", look at me this is how I live.

At some points I also think that we're making it very difficult for men. Let's take the double standard, I know a lot of men don't really like it when their girlfriend has had more sex then they've had (count me in as well), but if you say that, you're misogynist. That's not fair as well right? I mean it is your preference for a relationship. Or take slut walks, on the slut walks you had women with boards "teach men not to rape". Excuse me? I think the majority of men know that it's not ok to rape a women. I mean how far have we drifted?

I've listened to the podcast myself and I have to say it comes across as very whiny. I'm sorry but marathons? If you are so good at sports, why don't you find women who run marathons themselves? I'm sure they'll appreciate it far more. Comen sense? Anyone?

But then again, a century ago all a guy had to do to be considered top notch was have a steady job and a house. These days that's very different.

High_Achiever wrote:


But then again, a century ago all a guy had to do to be considered top notch was have a steady job and a house. These days that's very different.[/quote]

There are several good points made in the video, and some points that may come across as "whiny". Your point is valid with respect to a century ago. But even a few decades ago, it wasn't so hard on men. Men are generally looked down on in our society. And when women can rely on the state or government to look after their children, and when women can work full-time and provide for their children while doing the same jobs men are doing - then what aspects of masculinity ARE women going to value? Tell me. Or shall I tell you? They will devalue the aspect of masculinity that reflects the resilience of being a provider (for survival reasons - not for wealth reasons) and they will go for men who are more socially dominant, aggressive, overly-charismatic, etc. Most average men aren't really of value anymore. A man has to exert himself far more these days to be romantically successful. I have spoken to quite a few men who are hurting a lot, and do blame feminism for a lot of the problems. Having said that - I am not saying women should not be allowed to work, I'm just saying that men should be valued and appreciated more for what they do.

And yes, pornography is a problem for men - but it's a problem for women too (e.g. erotic novels). But I just see that as a form of opportunism designed to fill in the gap of loneliness that has resulted from the gender war that was ignited several decades ago.

But of course, only women are allowed to be victims. When men complain, its "whining". Notice the double-standard in our society regarding "equality" of treatment?

The Daoist point of view

has always appealed to me. It says men and women are vital to each other's wellbeing.

That has been my experience. Men are the sunshine in my life. With that sun, I grow and flourish. Without it, I feel a bit wilted. Above all else, I value men for that "intangible" yang energy that brings out the best in me. That will never be replaced by "the governement." Moreover, I've come to understand that the counterpart "essence" in me (yin) is what most brightens men's days. I can share it with a simple smile, a bit of encouragment, or via lovemaking.

Once you really get it that you're the missing half of the nuclear reactor the other sex needs to function's hard to suffer from low self-esteem. It also makes you want to help 'em out more...which is why you guys are here at all, BTW. Preved

I first realized this "sunshine" effect in college, when I moved in with my boyfriend junior year (lived in his frat Smile ) and both of us turned into A students overnight practically. It felt effortless. He went on to med school and I to law school...because the honeymoon neurochemistry wore off and I didn't know a thing about karezza in those days. Sad

I've never forgotten that lesson. Self-sufficiency is fine in a pinch, but it will never compare with the synergy of a harmonious partnership...whether between lovers, friends, whatever. the trick is doing what it takes to find a sustainable balance. Honeymoon neurochemistry doesn't last, so if you want to flourish over time, you have to synergize with biology's agenda...not let it push you around.

That's true and thanks for

That's true and thanks for informing me about that double standard thing.

That's indeed correct!

Maybe you can highlight some pointers, because I only listened to half of it since it's too long.

I think the dating model is

I think the dating model is wrong, personally. The entire cultural method for finding somebody is problematic.

People should really arrange dates for each other - meeting people through people. That way, you avoid all the awkwardness. It's also how a lot of things were done in the past.

And if you listen to that podcast I posted above; you'll find some excellent insights particularly about 50 minutes in from one of the women contributors. When men are not as valued simply for being male providers (like they were during more communal village societies for example), then men have to exert themselves even more to try and stand out. When women are in paid work alongside men - they are much more picky than they were in the past. What's worse - is that they have a tendency towards picking the more socially dominant men, the greater extroverts, etc. Body language somehow becomes more focussed on - when it didn't really matter in the past (unless the man was overtly effeminate). This leaves a lot of men having to try to change themselves to a great degree, just to get the possibility of entering a relationship with the modern "liberated" woman. It has become very cruel. Even as men still occupy the most dangerous jobs, comprise 90% of the homeless, undergo most of the heavy labor that builds the infrastructure, design the phones and mine the materials that women use to complain about men on.....etc ---- women still think they are the more entitled gender, or as the greater victim.

And of course, society is very individualist and the media and internet don't really help. As you are always going to be compared to some archetypal alpha who appears on some movie or TV show, etc. People are literally being manipulated and trodden on into being something that they are not.

And of course people love to

And of course people love to shame-men about their pornography habit, but NOT women for their equally disgusting habit of bodice-ripper romance novels that devalue the vast majority of men. Women are falling all over themselves to read a book about a domineering man who was abused as a child and who treats his lover like a slave in every aspect. There is no hope in hell of re-uniting the sexes under the mire of all this - contradictions and hypocrisy at every angle. It will come to the point where both genders will have to eventually transcend the dark and animalistic beast that is sexuality, and learn to turn towards higher spiritual values that transcend the lowly material world.


Yes, women are becoming addicts too. And yes people are writing about this. You're just not reading those articles. Vibrators and Other Pleasures: When 'Moderation' Fails (and I could find you others)

I had every reason to give up on you guys, and yet many of you are awakening from your addictions and doing great things in the world. Do you think you could find a bit of the same kind of optimism for women? If not, please find a different forum. At the moment, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Maybe you could stop reading depressing material and get out there and meet people whatever it takes. You may also find this book worthwhile. It seems to help with the kind of discouragement you're suffering from:

Awesome response Marnia!

Awesome response Marnia!

Thanks for that link by the way! Now I have a good argument when people say that you are a feminist with an agenda or when they call Gary a mangina!. The number one argument is always, but they don't mention sex toys! haha, so thanks for that link

I've been called two things whenever I raise the topic or porn addiction: a feminist if they don't know my gender and a mangina if they know my gender :D

I loved it when you wrote "do you think you could find a bit of the same kind of optimism for women". What I'm starting to realize is that porn isn't necessary at all and is just so stupid now when I think back of my old porn days. How stupid is it that there are couples where the women has her collection of sex toys and a guy who's addicted to porn.

For some this could work out, but I would feel emberassed if my girlfriend would start using sex toys, so I can perfectly understand it when she doesn't like me watching porn.

I don't think the OP is lashing out against you though, I think he'll be relieved to read your article!

Well,people don't know any better.

The mainstream has yet to catch up with the recent science on behavioral addiction - and its relevance to sexual behavior. They will eventually. In the meantime it's easier to resort to disparaging labels than to take the trouble to understand the brain science.

Yes, I know the OP is just feeling grumpy. I don't blame him. The situation is a mess, but I am not very tolerant of despair. There's plenty of reason for hope...such as 23, 000+ "Fapstronauts" on Reddit as well as thousands more elsewhere.

You guys who are experiencing brain plasticity for yourselves and bothering to learn the science behind it are the vanguard of a huge revolution in the understanding of human sexuality. Soon you'll be the ones teaching it to women.

Once we all understand how easily we can inadvertently recondition our sexuality in unwanted directions, we'll have to rethink a lot of aspects of today's sex advice. The current advice is based on outdated beliefs + ignorance. I'm about to put up some posts about this in the next two weeks...hence my ranting. Wink

Marnia wrote:

[quote=Marnia]Yes, women are becoming addicts too. And yes people are writing about this. You're just not reading those articles. Vibrators and Other Pleasures: When 'Moderation' Fails (and I could find you others)I had every reason to give up on you guys, and yet many of you are awakening from your addictions and doing great things in the world. Do you think you could find a bit of the same kind of optimism for women? If not, please find a different forum. At the moment, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.Maybe you could stop reading depressing material and get out there and meet people whatever it takes. You may also find this book worthwhile. It seems to help with the kind of discouragement you're suffering from:[/quote]

Right. I have not looked at porn for 18 years, but I still speak to young men who do as well as young women who do. And meeting people is also something I have done, but quite frankly - I do not buy into these arbitrary classifications of "nice guy" syndrome which are labelled. Some of us are naturally introverted, and that does not mean socially awkward - it just means that you are more introspective as a person. Susan Cain did a very good TED talk about this. Our society does not value men who are like this. This is why a lot of guys who don't have socialisation or pornography problems (such as the guy in the video I posted above) ARE having problems attracting the modern woman - despite the fact that the guy has lots of friends and social life already. You cannot hide this social change, and pornography is only a symptom. It is not the cause.

You are entitled to your views

I have no interest in labels either, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't find useful tips in the book.

I happen to love introverts, so I have no judgment where they are concerned.

However, your pain is palpable. Something needs to shift.

Society is definitely screwed up and relationships are in a shambles, but that doesn't mean that you, as an individual, cannot have a happy one.

I suspect, however, that you will have to change your perception of the potential in your situation first. Our beliefs have a powerful impact on our experiences.

The solution may be easier than we think

Haven't you felt stronger and more manly since learning how to keep your brain more balanced? That manliness has the effect of making us women feel safe and more feminine.

Personally, I think the solution is right under our noses. Yes, we've let the media teach us a lot of nonsense about how to improve our love lives, but we can learn differently by experimenting for ourselves.

Most women these days only go

Women these days only go out on "dates" with their gay male friends. This is because they don't want to deal with the pressure of men hitting on them or they don't really want to meet anyone new... ie, they go to the club. And when a man starts trying, it's "Oh, I'm with HIM."

The only thing that could fix this would be one side or the other(male or female) wake up as a group and start making changes. Of course if it's us guys, it probably means we will have to sit back and do nothing and leave women alone for a while until they decide they actually miss us or need us....

It's a situation that requires more people bringing their awareness to in order for it to change. Until then, I can live without sex, right...!?
I'm starting to feel sad.


I'm not sure why you're so pessimistic. One of the most common benefits people report from rebooting is finding that women are attracted to them. You control your mojo, and it's mojo that magnetizes us.

Believe me, the reason women go out is to meet you. They just want to feel that you're plugged in and not running on PUA batteries. Wink

I guess then, the problem

I guess then, the problem lies in "finding a lonely, desperate girl" for myself. around here (midwest), lonely and desperate women turn to "God" and shun men.

"God is the only man I need in my life"

Recovering Nice Guy/Sex Addict

I can identify with this rage and frustration, but that's all it is. Men as much as women, need to adapt to societal change and question their MO. Just like generations in the past have had to deal with cultural and technological shifts, we are no different. The bright side to all of this is that there is a solution, and its pretty simple. The reason that it feels that it is a struggle is that we have the challenge of overcoming a lifetime of programming and poor self-esteem.

I have a friend that I work with who doesnt chase, women are calling him day and night, no effort on his part to qualify, doesnt own a house, doesnt wear little shorts and run marathons, and doesnt come home and curse god because he cant find one good woman who he has built into his head that is magically supposed to understand him, how special he his and all of his needs. We dont work to qualify for women, we work for ourselves! We do things for ourselves and the rest follows.

Even though there is a woman I like who has shown interest in me in the past that flocks to him when we are all together, that's fine. Im not going to go home and curse him and complain about women. I believe that my day will come, and it will be because I did the things that my friend did. Here are his characteristics- he speaks his mind, is not afraid to tell the truth, treats women with respect and tells them his feelings positive or negative from the get go, is not afraid to be who he is, is an authentic and genuine guy, benefits from what you have to offer, is not quick to judge, does not blame others for his problems, plays instruments, Has a sense of humor, works out EVERY single day with no excuses, and has learned what works for him. And he is a soft-spoken and intelligent PhD student.

There is something wrong with every society, figure out what it is and live your life based on your own truth. There is something about that very act and attitude that will attract at least one decent woman into your life. And we are lucky to even be questioning this. What happens to our "lucky" fellows who did "succeed" and score that trophy early in his twenties? Nightmare. Consider yourself lucky for having the opportunity to develop and move along the cutting edge of society.


Another point I want to make clear is that you should learn to embrace (and even thrive) with rejection. This is something the PUA community has taught me well. If you are always worried about rejection, you will be because you are holding yourself back from being a genuine person in front of a woman. I was rejected 4 times this week and yes it stung, but each time I realize how I am not being authentic to myself. Women are wonderful teachers, just pay attention to their overall actions.

A woman wakes up in the

A woman wakes up in the morning, in a house built by men. She starts the water to boil on a stove built by men, and sits at a chair and table, put there by men, to read a newspaper written, in part, by women…but printed and delivered by men…She nibbles some toast, made from grains, grown and harvested by men….whoops…Time to take a shower. She turns a faucet handle installed by a man, and lo and behold…out comes HOT water, delivered by a vastly complicated water system, built by men. She drives to work in a car built by men, on roads built by men, powered by petroleum, drilled and refined and delivered by men. She arrives at an office building built by men. Walks to her desk, fires up her computer, and glances out her window at a city… built by men…full of potential customers for her service business… Out of the corner of her eye, a table in the conference room, that seems awkwardly out of place, snags her attention. She strokes her ear lobe. At that moment, the janitor scoots by in the hallway.

“Bob! Oh Bob. Could you PLEASE move that table, further into the corner. You’re such a dear.” She pins him, with a delectable, and utterly phony smile. Bob, oblivious to the cheapness of the words, and falseness of the smile…thrilled to get any attention at all, from such an attractive person…pitches right in. And as he lugs one corner of the heavy table, across the carpet, she EXhales a comfortable sigh. Her day, has begun.

Love dear,

This is not the right forum for these rants. I happen to adore men, which is why I made this forum available to them when they needed a safe place to work out the rebooting concept. However, this entire site is devoted to the reunion of male and female.

Your rants are promoting separation, so please take them elsewhere.


the adventure

To me theres an adventure in seeking out a mate/partner that I never saw before I got into rebalance/recovery. I'm still anxious and scared and desperate from time to time. I haven't started dating yet, but I'm getting closer to that time period. I do know that when I start dating the women that I date (and part of my dating plan is to date minimum three women at a time) will be getting the emotionally healthiest version of me there's ever been. I can't say that for the few women I've dated in my past, there was a lot of emotional development I avoided for years, but I'm here now, and have more choice over who I date and don't date than I did in the past. It's not all of nothing anymore.

I also want to say that,

I also want to say that, dating more than one person at a time never worked for me, personally.

I did this during a college school year in my 20s and all I did was hurt and make people mad. A good friend of mine stop talking to me and it caused a relationship that was really good with someone who treated me well to end. Dating more than one person at a time just makes sure that you can't really focus enough on any one person to really know what they're like and you can pass someone good by because you are distracted.

I have read through this. And

I have read through this. And I wanted to make a few points.

Porn and toys. If a couple uses these, they should use them openly and together, that way they are not using to isolate, and, for example, they could watch a video together that teaches certain techniques. But it shouldn't be used specifically and only for arousal purposes. Your connection to partner should be what makes you feel that. Even in the Karezza/tantra/taoist world, the same position all the time wont work. In other words, non addictive usage.

Also, over the past couple years, I have gone from being someone who was passed by and felt lonely and passed by 5 years without any sex or relationship to having been with 3 women in the past year, and 2 of them in the past 4 months. I seriously could write a book, in fact, I recommend men read no more mr nice guy by glover and take some of these PUA stuff they learned and do the OPPOSITE. Of course, some of it is correct, but mostly the problem is it will get you in the wrong frame of mind. The main reason PUA stuff screwed me up was because it gave me the inherent idea I wasn't good enough as I am and needed to use someone elses techniques.

I have been in 3 relationships with Borderline Personality Women and I learned more from them than all the other interactions and relationships combined. Yeah, it was learning the hard way, though...

A man doesn't have to be an aggressive, charming, alpha male type. I think BPD people are just magnified humans, all the good AND bad is magnified. My last BPD girlfriend and I once had a conversation where she was talking about this guy she had dated and how he was like this loud boisterous alpha male type and why couldn't I be like that and I said yeah, but thats just based on his ego, its not a true strength and she said something like ok yeah, you don't really have an ego like that, do you? Part of the point I'm making here is that all women change their mind often, so don't always go by what they say and also sometimes they start thinking in a direction that is bad for you two as a couple and you need to resteer them.

Even women who I don't end up hooking up with relationship wise or sexually love me because I am refreshing to them. I don't go bouncing around or go out of my way to meet and introduce myself I just sit back and completely enyoy what I'm doing and be myself, which is a quiet reserved person who opens up a little after conversation started. They come to me. Not in droves, but, once in a while, the right kind of woman comes along, and just starts talking. And I play it cool. Mostly bc I realized a while back I was trying to talk a lot because I was really just nervous about the awkward silence until I reframed and realized I don't have to talk alot to get someones interest. Women don't like "nice guys" because on a subtle level, we are manipulative and they see throught it.

Just tonight I was at a party and one of these more "aggressive/charming/alpha" types was flirting with the girl I came with. We're not yet at a point where we've talked about exclusivity, and sometimes the price of admission with women is not making them feel you're trying to lock them down. Hes actually a friend, just didn't really know about us, and due to the situation with a lot of people around I didn't have a chance to simply pull him aside and tell him quietly to knock it off, so I kept my cool. At first she enjoyed their banter for a while and eventually she was just like "stop it". And, of course she went home with me

And I am pretty honest, which they like. "Ya, I kinda only like you for your body right now, but, I wanna get to know you first before we do anything sexual." "Yes, I love sex, but I also want it to be with someone I have a real connection" "Most guys would probably say your average, but I really love your personality and thats makes you sexy to me" "Yeah I've been hurt before and I'm sensitive about it" "I really don't like it when you do that, so if you don't stop, then I'm going to stop hanging out with you.": "That was fucked up, you hurt my feelings..." And, generally just telling them things about my philosophy and being honest about thngs I used to be insecure about and avoid talking about because now I realize being a more humble and honest true to yourself person is more powerful than trying to hide flaws and be perfect and how long can you keep up the charade anyway. Eventually they will see throught the cracks, might as well be upfront who you are and what you are about. Some of the things I say they've heard other women say, but not from a man.

Assertiveness... And, last but not least, something I read the other day "If you always give someone what they want, they won't realize how much they need you"